10-03-13 12:03 PM
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  1. gng11's Avatar
    Did I read 28% ?
    Good news on the brand/company front (not discussing about stock, there's a sub-section for that).

    Source : Fairfax Financial deal means BlackBerry suddenly has a future again
    I hope we are in for some FRESH change, a new clear vision, phones to die for that people will want in a click, better marketing (please hire someone who has had global marketing success experiences to consult with Blackberry, I'm thinking ---> Allison Johnson, the former VP-global marketing communications at Apple).
    09-24-13 02:50 PM
  2. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    That is downright untrue. Please stop making things up in an attempt to sounds like you know what you're talking about.

    Neither instagram, nor flipboard, nor Netflix require the JB runtime.
    https://play.google.com/store/apps/d....android&hl=en
    https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...iaclient&hl=en
    https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...oard.app&hl=en

    Again, according to Blackberry's own numbers (check their posts about Android runtime compatibility) about 90% of Android apps can run on the 2.3 runtime.
    In all of these cases, while the apps CAN run on 2.2 and up, the developers were not happy with the "user experience" when running them on the original BB10 Android runtime.

    Flipboard isn't releasing for 10.1 devices at all. That should tell you something.
    09-24-13 02:54 PM
  3. mikeo007's Avatar
    In all of these cases, while the apps CAN run on 2.2 and up, they developers were not happy with the "user experience" when running them on the original BB10 Android runtime.

    Flipboard isn't releasing for 10.1 devices at all. That should tell you something.
    It tells me Flipboard doesn't want to be on BB10 at this time.
    Have you spoken with the developers of Netflix, Instagram, and Flipboard where they informed you that they were not happy with the user experience?
    You have absolutely no idea what their reasons are.
    You're reading way too much into it, and again, attempting purvey this as fact.
    09-24-13 02:57 PM
  4. gng11's Avatar
    In all of these cases, while the apps CAN run on 2.2 and up, they developers were not happy with the "user experience" when running them on the original BB10 Android runtime.

    Flipboard isn't releasing for 10.1 devices at all. That should tell you something.
    It's coming to Z10 for sure!
    Attached Thumbnails Watsa wants to keep BlackBerry together-img_00000002.jpg  
    09-24-13 02:57 PM
  5. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    It tells me Flipboard doesn't want to be on BB10 at this time.
    Have you spoken with the developers of Netflix, Instagram, and Flipboard where they informed you that they were not happy with the user experience?
    You have absolutely no idea what their reasons are.
    You're reading way too much into it, and again, attempting purvey this as fact.
    I'm basing my comments on Netflix and Instagram on quiet murmurs from BB's Developer Relations people earlier this year, and Flipboard's on the fact that they're not releasing for 10.1.
    09-24-13 03:04 PM
  6. mikeo007's Avatar
    I'm basing my comments on Netflix and Instagram on quiet murmurs from BB's Developer Relations people earlier this year, and Flipboard's on the fact that they're not releasing for 10.1.
    You're making extremely narrow assumptions based on extremely broad information.
    You're trying to put this across as fact.
    Why do you insist on spreading fud?

    At least you've admitted that you're making this stuff up, that's the first step.
    09-24-13 03:11 PM
  7. bbgoforit's Avatar
    Here's hoping he can do it. There's a lot of value yet in BB.
    09-24-13 03:13 PM
  8. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    You're making extremely narrow assumptions based on extremely broad information.
    You're trying to put this across as fact.
    Why do you insist on spreading fud?

    At least you've admitted that you're making this stuff up, that's the first step.
    "fud" stands for Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt, and is typically used to cast doubt on a company or product. I'm not trying to cast doubt on anything; if anything I'm trying to suggest there is a reason for hope that the app situation may actually improve.

    Tell me this: why would BB even bother with implementing the JB runtime if there were no benefit from it? And do you consider it sheer coincidence that the Skype preview was announced at pretty much the same time as we first heard news the JB runtime was coming? It improves overall Android app performance and user experience, and yes, I believe that's been holding back some app publishers.
    wxmancanada and Elite1 like this.
    09-24-13 03:16 PM
  9. mikeo007's Avatar
    "fud" stands for Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt, and is typically used to cast doubt on a company or product. I'm not trying to cast doubt on anything; if anything I'm trying to suggest there is a reason for hope that the app situation may actually improve.

    Tell me this: why would BB even bother with implementing the JB runtime if there were no benefit from it? And do you consider it sheer coincidence that the Skype preview was announced at pretty much the same time as we first heard news the JB runtime was coming? It improves overall Android app performance and user experience, and yes, I believe that's been holding back some app publishers.
    I used fud incorrectly then. What I meant to say was bull**** but I was attempting to be polite.
    I won't humour your attempt to try and justify your opinions, as I see no value in them.

    Again, you are drawing extremely narrow conclusions from extremely broad data.
    Your argument is a series of extremely loosely tied together arguments.

    Lets toss the pieces out here just so everyone can see.
    Your original claim:
    "the Jelly Bean runtime makes porting Android apps a much more attractive proposition for major publishers"
    Fact: The JB runtime adds almost nothing in terms of compatibility which was not previously available in the 2.3 runtime.
    Conclusion: There is no tangible data that suggests the 4.2 runtime makes porting apps a "much more attractive proposition".

    Your next line of reasoning:
    "basing my comments on Netflix and Instagram on quiet murmurs from BB's Developer Relations people earlier this year, and Flipboard's on the fact that they're not releasing for 10.1."
    Fact: Netflix and Instagram do not exist on BB10. Neither company has explained why up to this point. Flipboard is currently only available for the Z30, which is not released to the majority of the world.
    Conclusion: Your conjecture about "major publishers" is based on unfounded and unreliable (source: you) data about the intentions of three (3) apps.

    Your next line of reasoning:
    "why would BB even bother with implementing the JB runtime if there were no benefit from it"
    Fact: We have no idea how much or how little effort was involved with implementing the JB runtime. Nor do we have any idea as to the reasoning behind implementing it.
    Opinion: BB didn't want to be seen as years behind with their Android implementation. This is very likely simply a marketing move, which appears to have hoodwinked you rather well. They've advertised that they are running a more recent version of Android than many Android handsets. That is a good enough reason to implement it IMO.

    Again, thank you for making it clear that you are in fact making this all up.
    But again, I am baffled as to why you feel the need to spread this conjecture around as fact.
    chr1sny and Etios like this.
    09-24-13 03:37 PM
  10. anon1727506's Avatar
    "fud" stands for Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt, and is typically used to cast doubt on a company or product. I'm not trying to cast doubt on anything; if anything I'm trying to suggest there is a reason for hope that the app situation may actually improve.

    Tell me this: why would BB even bother with implementing the JB runtime if there were no benefit from it? And do you consider it sheer coincidence that the Skype preview was announced at pretty much the same time as we first heard news the JB runtime was coming? It improves overall Android app performance and user experience, and yes, I believe that's been holding back some app publishers.
    There is no doubt that JB runtime should (if implemented correctly) allow for the development of newer versions of apps. But I agree that to think that not having JB was the reason that we don't have so many key apps now, and that once we do have JB that developers will jump on BlackBerry like a flea on dog.... is a little optimistic. Especially when BlackBerry is up to their necks in FUD right now.

    Developers/Publisher have not given BlackBerry a second taught in the past because the user base was too small. If they even consider BB10 it was with a "let's wait and see" attitude. They had a number of users in mind to make the building/converting and supporting of an app profitable for them.... I bet most have written BB10 off as a flop, and have no intention of moving forward. MAYBE if PW decides to relaunch BB10 to consumers, they'll change their minds. But as long as both He is saying

    We can deliver immediate value to shareholders, while we continue the execution of a long-term strategy in a private company with a focus on delivering superior and secure enterprise solutions to BlackBerry customers around the world.
    That doesn't sound like there is going to be a very big market to sell apps in, unless you target is enterprise customers - and only if you magically see devices in place of solutions in there somewhere.

    Personally I'm betting that BB10 is finished. We will get 10.2 and that is it. PW is going to put a hold on projects that are losing money, and that means development and production on the BB line of smartphone for now. Maybe later he'll come out with a enterprise only device... but too be honest I don't see it.
    Last edited by scalemaster34; 09-24-13 at 03:50 PM.
    mset and Etios like this.
    09-24-13 03:39 PM
  11. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    There is no doubt that JB runtime should (if implemented correctly) allow for the development of newer versions of apps. But I agree that to think that not having JB was the reason that we don't have so many key apps now, and that once we do have JB that developers will jump on BlackBerry like a flea on dog.... is a little optimistic. Especially when BlackBerry is up to their necks in FUD right now.

    Developers/Publisher having given BlackBerry a second taught in the past because the user base was too small. If they even consider BB10 it was with a "let's wait and see" attitude. They had a number of users in mind to make the building/converting and supporting of an app profitable for them.... I bet most have written BB10 off as a flop, and have no intention of moving forward. MAYBE if PW decides to relaunch BB10 to consumers, they'll change their minds. But as long as both He is saying



    That doesn't sound like there is going to be a very big market to sell apps in, unless you target is enterprise customers - and only if you magically see devices in place of solutions in there somewhere.

    Personally I'm betting that BB10 is finished. We will get 10.2 and that is it. PW is going to put a hold on projects that are losing money, and that means development and production on the BB line of smartphone for now. Maybe later he'll come out with a enterprise only device... but too be honest I don't see it.
    First, I'll admit that my outlook might be a little overly-optimistic, especially since for some publishers even if the JB runtime addresses the performance issues, BB's overall corporate condition may be enough to make them want to avoid the platform entirely now.

    In terms of BB10 being finished, I hope you're wrong, and I can think of one reason why you might be: BB apparently has something like $5bln in production commitments for handsets, apparently, and if they were getting out of that market entirely they'd have to buy those commitments out.

    btw, I'd also point out that BB has made comments before about "de-emphasizing" the consumer market and concentrating on enterprise, which led many (many) people to jump to the conclusion that they'd never sell to consumers again. What I read out of the recent announcements is that the typical consumer isn't going to be quite as high a priority, maybe, but that they'd keep selling phones to people who want them. The fact that they still consider the "prosumer" a customer tells me they have no intention to drop out of retail handset sales yet.
    sleepngbear likes this.
    09-24-13 03:48 PM
  12. mikeo007's Avatar
    First, I'll admit that my outlook might be a little overly-optimistic, especially since for some publishers even if the JB runtime addresses the performance issues, BB's overall corporate condition may be enough to make them want to avoid the platform entirely now.

    In terms of BB10 being finished, I hope you're wrong, and I can think of one reason why you might be: BB apparently has something like $5bln in production commitments for handsets, apparently, and if they were getting out of that market entirely they'd have to buy those commitments out.

    btw, I'd also point out that BB has made comments before about "de-emphasizing" the consumer market and concentrating on enterprise, which led many (many) people to jump to the conclusion that they'd never sell to consumers again. What I read out of the recent announcements is that the typical consumer isn't going to be quite as high a priority, maybe, but that they'd keep selling phones to people who want them. The fact that they still consider the "prosumer" a customer tells me they have no intention to drop out of retail handset sales yet.
    Just to clarify TB, I'm not taking exception to your optimism. I think it's misguided, but it's not my place to tell you what you should and shouldn't be optimistic about.

    I'm also not taking exception to your previous posts where you stated things such as:
    We're going to have the new Jelly Bean Android runtime and I firmly believe that a few major apps have been waiting for that. I don't think Flipbook is the only app ready to launch on 10.2.
    That's your opinion and that's fine.

    The part I take exception to are the more recent, much more brazen, almost desperate attempts to persuade people that the Jelly Bean runtime is somehow an app saviour. I'm talking about quotes like these:
    One reason that several of the big apps wouldn't even produce an Android port for BB10 is because it was an older runtime that they didn't want to support. They also weren't happy with the performance and customer experience of running "older" versions of their app on a new platform. The rumbling has been that Netflix and Instagram in particular were waiting on the Jelly Bean runtime.
    and
    the Jelly Bean runtime makes porting Android apps a much more attractive proposition for major publishers
    and
    And the icing on the cake: how easy it is for Android devs to move their stuff over if they want. Made all the easier with the Jelly Bean runtime in 10.2.
    You have no proof to back up these claims, only the conjecture that your drew together from the straw man argument that I picked apart earlier.
    09-24-13 03:56 PM
  13. anon1727506's Avatar
    First, I'll admit that my outlook might be a little overly-optimistic, especially since for some publishers even if the JB runtime addresses the performance issues, BB's overall corporate condition may be enough to make them want to avoid the platform entirely now.

    In terms of BB10 being finished, I hope you're wrong, and I can think of one reason why you might be: BB apparently has something like $5bln in production commitments for handsets, apparently, and if they were getting out of that market entirely they'd have to buy those commitments out.

    btw, I'd also point out that BB has made comments before about "de-emphasizing" the consumer market and concentrating on enterprise, which led many (many) people to jump to the conclusion that they'd never sell to consumers again. What I read out of the recent announcements is that the typical consumer isn't going to be quite as high a priority, maybe, but that they'd keep selling phones to people who want them. The fact that they still consider the "prosumer" a customer tells me they have no intention to drop out of retail handset sales yet.
    I didn't quote BlackBerry, I quoted PW. He said NOTHING about smartphones in his press release about the future of the company.

    As for production commitments - haven't hear anything about them being a factor in the buyout, you would think $5B in debt would be a concern. Do you have a link... if devices cost $200 to manufacture, thats almost 25 Million devices that BB committed to????
    09-24-13 03:59 PM
  14. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    I didn't quote BlackBerry, I quoted PW. He said NOTHING about smartphones in his press release about the future of the company.

    As for production commitments - haven't hear anything about them being a factor in the buyout, you would think $5B in debt would be a concern. Do you have a link... if devices cost $200 to manufacture, thats almost 25 Million devices that BB committed to????
    No, but he did mention relationships with carriers.

    “We believe this transaction will open an exciting new private chapter for BlackBerry, its customers, carriers and employees,” Fairfax chairman and chief executive Prem Watsa said in a statement.

    Why would he mention carriers if they won't have phones. Makes no sense.
    09-24-13 04:04 PM
  15. mikeo007's Avatar
    No, but he did mention relationships with carriers.

    “We believe this transaction will open an exciting new private chapter for BlackBerry, its customers, carriers and employees,” Fairfax chairman and chief executive Prem Watsa said in a statement.

    Why would he mention carriers if they won't have phones. Makes no sense.
    You don't cut off one of your only sources of income before you get the keys to the company. Even if he did plan on completely retreating from the hardware business (I don't know what Prem's plans are) do you think he'd come right out and announce it in his letter of intent? That's not even business sense, that's just common sense.
    09-24-13 04:07 PM
  16. Skatophilia's Avatar
    Im going to give this man a hug!
    09-24-13 04:34 PM
  17. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    I didn't quote BlackBerry, I quoted PW. He said NOTHING about smartphones in his press release about the future of the company.

    As for production commitments - haven't hear anything about them being a factor in the buyout, you would think $5B in debt would be a concern. Do you have a link... if devices cost $200 to manufacture, thats almost 25 Million devices that BB committed to????
    That's our old friend Fawcette at Pacific Crest who stated over $5bln in "off-balance sheet commitments", apparently including $4.3bln in purchase orders:

    BlackBerry Ltd (BBRY): BlackBerry slips; Pac Crest notes purchase commitments - Seeking Alpha
    09-24-13 04:41 PM
  18. FSeverino's Avatar
    That's our old friend Fawcette at Pacific Crest who stated over $5bln in "off-balance sheet commitments", apparently including $4.3bln in purchase orders:

    BlackBerry Ltd (BBRY): BlackBerry slips; Pac Crest notes purchase commitments - Seeking Alpha
    If that's correct it must also include the other Q10 phones. If there will be 4 models that's roughly 1.25 b each if we average down the middle. Z10 write down was $1b so they must be able to get the 1.25b in manufacturer costs for at least the Z10 and I would think there were more Q series phones built.

    Posted via CB10
    09-24-13 05:04 PM
  19. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    You don't cut off one of your only sources of income before you get the keys to the company. Even if he did plan on completely retreating from the hardware business (I don't know what Prem's plans are) do you think he'd come right out and announce it in his letter of intent? That's not even business sense, that's just common sense.
    So just admit you don't have a clue. Stop saying it as a fact.
    09-24-13 05:08 PM
  20. mikeo007's Avatar
    So just admit you don't have a clue. Stop saying it as a fact.
    What did I state as fact exactly? I stated that I have no idea what Fairfax is planning.
    09-24-13 05:10 PM
  21. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Just to clarify TB, I'm not taking exception to your optimism. I think it's misguided, but it's not my place to tell you what you should and shouldn't be optimistic about.

    I'm also not taking exception to your previous posts where you stated things such as:
    That's your opinion and that's fine.

    The part I take exception to are the more recent, much more brazen, almost desperate attempts to persuade people that the Jelly Bean runtime is somehow an app saviour. I'm talking about quotes like these:

    and

    and

    You have no proof to back up these claims, only the conjecture that your drew together from the straw man argument that I picked apart earlier.
    You're engaging in some hair-splitting here. If I've overreached in some of my statements, it was in good faith, but the bottom line is that the reason the JB runtime is being implemented is to improve the performance and stability of Android ports, and there's some indication it was done at the insistence of major app publishers. You can quibble all you want about how effective you expect it to be ultimately, but it still stands to improve the situation overall.
    southlander likes this.
    09-24-13 05:23 PM
  22. crackbb10's Avatar
    People on this forum keep getting stuck at the denial stage of grief.

    Handsets are dead...
    My Z is still very much alive..! No grief detected... Never thought I'd say this but I'm getting me the 30 as well when it hits my region...


    From the Z...
    09-24-13 05:31 PM
  23. ppeters914's Avatar
    It's sad that the Windows phone will survive as the 3rd player. To be perfectly honest i have never actually seen anyone using a windows phone?
    See a lot of blackberries tho. I guess it all comes down to how Big your pocket books are and how much cash you can keep throwing on the fire until something sticks.

    I really did think there was a market for a QWERTY phone. Boy was i wrong.
    I never see people with windows phones either but I also never see people with BlackBerry 10 devices.

    Posted via CB10
    I haven't see a BlackBerry in the wild since forever. The AT&T rep barely controlled his surprise and rolling his eyes when I pulled out my Torch. I have seen a few Windows phones, mostly non-techie owners, and they love them.
    09-24-13 05:58 PM
  24. kevinnugent's Avatar
    I might have missed it, but what does it mean for people who already have a BB10 handset? Will those handsets still be supported?
    Honestly, I have no idea. I think they'd be required by law to assume warranty and support for a certain period. I'd presume 18 months maybe.
    09-24-13 11:49 PM
  25. Erik Lehman's Avatar
    I hope so. That is pleasant news, if it is true.

    Posted via SEGA master system
    09-24-13 11:56 PM
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