09-28-15 07:14 AM
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  1. tre10's Avatar
    Explain on how they are blowing up their business model of acquiring money and data?

    I'm aware that this is heavily spread as rumor still.
    And its nothing about leverage.
    The only thing I can't understand, is how you cannot understand that for either company, it is a win win scenario if it is true.

    Google gets :
    More exposure to another companies small user base.
    Use of the only pkb on the market
    Use of BlackBerry 's experience suite
    Use of BlackBerry security for android for work
    Potentially IOS users that will convert to Android that wanted Typo for their phones

    The list could go on and on.

    And BlackBerry gets:
    All that is listed above and an increased user base either way creating more profit for the company and share holders.
    And a massive foot hold in the industry once again by way of device and interconnectivity .

    Oh yea, and they still get to keep the loyalists for BB10.

    There is a massive potential for either company. Especially BlackBerry.

    Via Passport via CB10

    What Cgk means is if BlackBerry get this concession then Samsung if going to want the same for tizen, LG for WebOS and everyone else with a propriety OS. Then you have all these different OS out there competing with android. Why would google want that? If android market share drops then there's less data they can get. Risk vs reward doesn't seem that great for Google. Consumer comes out smelling like a rose though :-)
    08-30-15 09:45 AM
  2. europolska00's Avatar
    this sounds like the worst idea ever....do they have anyone left at BB with half a brain? I know this is purely a rumor but sounds ridiculous.
    Why is it ridiculous? I think it sounds fantastic. The only thing I would change is have Android pre-loaded. As I think the phone is geared towards that crowd. But have BlackBerry 10 as an option to download for us, let's be honest here, relatively few die hards.

    Market the phone as an Android phone for the masses, but let fan boys switch back to BlackBerry 10.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by europolska00; 08-30-15 at 11:05 AM.
    08-30-15 10:10 AM
  3. menshawy's Avatar
    I think it's quite gimmicky for the average user. But it could serve in one way: those Android users who are up to try something else and yet they didn't try BlackBerry 10, this is their chance. The idea works like an entry to know BlackBerry 10 platform
    08-30-15 10:19 AM
  4. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    Why is it ridiculous? I think it sounds fantastic. The only think I would change is have Android pre-loaded. As I think the phone is geared towards that crowd. But have BlackBerry 10 as an option to download for us, let's be honest here, relatively few die hards.

    Market the phone as an Android phone for the masses, but let fan boys switch back to BlackBerry 10.

    Posted via CB10
    And maintain BB10 for the few 'diehards' that would go to the trouble? How much do you think the collective of CrackBerry would continually pay to keep BB10 afloat?

    When people buy a tangible device (such as a phone), they expect the OS required to run it to be free (well, included in the price). Given how little people around here think of software developers (a fun thing they do in their spare time, right?).. I would imagine most here would DEMAND that they would be able to switch to BB10 for free.

    So BlackBerry is expected to develop, maintain and support two OS, while getting paid for one (and not much for that one because you can bet your firstborn that people WILL complain that they should only charge $199 for their devices because 'they aren't Apple').

    Not sure if you've noticed, but... BlackBerry isn't exactly rolling in dough. They're probably charging their employees for toilet paper at work.

    Posted via CB10
    m1kr0, kbz1960 and TGR1 like this.
    08-30-15 10:21 AM
  5. europolska00's Avatar
    And maintain BB10 for the few 'diehards' that would go to the trouble? How much do you think the collective of CrackBerry would continually pay to keep BB10 afloat?

    When people buy a tangible device (such as a phone), they expect the OS required to run it to be free (well, included in the price). Given how little people around here think of software developers (a fun thing they do in their spare time, right?).. I would imagine most here would DEMAND that they would be able to switch to BB10 for free.

    So BlackBerry is expected to develop, maintain and support two OS, while getting paid for one (and not much for that one because you can bet your firstborn that people WILL complain that they should only charge $199 for their devices because 'they aren't Apple').

    Not sure if you've noticed, but... BlackBerry isn't exactly rolling in dough. They're probably charging their employees for toilet paper at work.

    Posted via CB10
    No, maintain BlackBerry 10 for the Enterprise customers who have been keeping the company afloat with BES12 revenue. The average Joe might not care about security but government and corporate still do.

    When you say they'll spend so much money developing two operating systems, well, unless I've missed something, both operating systems have all ready been developed and finished. Yes, they will modify Android, but modifying is a far cry from developing an OS. And yes, no matter which OS they choose they will have to maintain an OS. BlackBerry, a software company, I'm sure can handle maintaining them if it means staying relevant for prosumer and winning over consumer. Business' need to invest to make money.

    Do you think BlackBerry, after investing so much money into developing it's OS from scratch, would so easily throw away it's software? The cost to maintain it, as you aptly pointed out expensive development, is negligible. Not to mention other market segments, the government and corporations I mentioned, want BlackBerry 10. Anyone who thinks BlackBerry would just let BlackBerry 10 die, simply because they've decided to use Android, doesn't understand BlackBerry's business.

    You seem to forget, this phone is being marketed to the average consumer, but it won't be the only segment it will be marketed to. BlackBerry is not a handset company. You clearly don't understand that.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by europolska00; 08-30-15 at 11:41 AM.
    08-30-15 11:22 AM
  6. AnimalPak200's Avatar

    When you say they'll spend so much money developing two operating systems, well, unless I've missed something, both operating systems have all ready been developed and finished.

    Posted via CB10
    Lol

    The only time software is 'finished' is when the developer decides to stop supporting it. Neither BB10 or BlackBerry's Android are close to being 'issue free', and I'm sure will require substantial efforts to maintain. Will it be worth it to keep putting money into BB10? Depends on how much it brings in, and if you're giving it away free on Android pre-installed devices then I'd venture to say: not much.

    BlackBerry has been very clear that they are trying to deliberately remove from the BES/Services business any reliance on the failed BB10 Hardware business,.. so they themselves are planning for a BlackBerry device-less world dominated by iOS and Android enterprise end points.

    The only ones that aren't getting ready are us roaming around our CrackBerry bubble.



    Posted via CB10
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    08-30-15 11:43 AM
  7. cgk's Avatar
    No, maintain BlackBerry 10 for the Enterprise customers who have been keeping the company afloat with BES12 revenue. The average Joe might not care about security but government and corporate still do.
    BES12 revenue is tiny and BES12 is not BB10 - I bet they already have many times more android devices contained to BES12 than BB10 - because we know that if governments and corporate care about security, they don't need BB10 as part of that - if they didn't - bb10 devices would be selling 600,000 units and falling per quarter.

    Do you think BlackBerry, after investing so much money into developing it's OS from scratch, would so easily throw away it's software?
    This is the sunk cost fallacy - all the money and time they have invested in BB10 is gone, it's not coming back. Any decision about the future should never be made on the basis of this.
    AnimalPak200 likes this.
    08-30-15 11:46 AM
  8. Yatezy's Avatar
    No I am not explaining anything because it is already covered in plenty of places but I will give you a hint - you make an exception for bbry - why are you not making that exception for Samsung, lg, htc, sony?

    More simply why has Google never made an exception of this sort do you think ?

    Go do some reading
    Tizen OS is now overtaking BB10 (a link was provided on here and I think the last quarter they had 1.5 million activations) and Samsung still doesn't provide a runtime in it as it's against the OHA.

    If Samsung has to play ball, and they have far more power than Blackberry, then it's safe to say Blackberry will have to play ball when it comes to the play services saga.
    08-30-15 01:14 PM
  9. extisis's Avatar
    Change the thread from "updated" to "speculated". Thanks.

    Posted via CB10
    08-30-15 01:41 PM
  10. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    No, maintain BlackBerry 10 for the Enterprise customers who have been keeping the company afloat with BES12 revenue. The average Joe might not care about security but government and corporate still do.
    You're right that government and corporations care about security. Companies focusing on security like Palo Alto Networks have grown significantly over the past year .

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/demand...150856342.html

    Unfortunately, few corporations and governments view BBRY as a critical part of a security infrastructure. The association between BBRY and security is purely a Crackberry/consumer phenomenon. BBRY's fundamentals continue to deteriorate while actual security companies take off.
    1magine likes this.
    08-30-15 02:03 PM
  11. europolska00's Avatar
    Lol

    The only time software is 'finished' is when the developer decides to stop supporting it. Neither BB10 or BlackBerry's Android are close to being 'issue free', and I'm sure will require substantial efforts to maintain. Will it be worth it to keep putting money into BB10? Depends on how much it brings in, and if you're giving it away free on Android pre-installed devices then I'd venture to say: not much.

    Posted via CB10

    Yes. Finished. When they release an OS it is finished. That's why it's called an update. You update the finished version.

    LOL indeed.

    Yes, you're right. Android is coming out and BlackBerry will announce they're done with BlackBerry 10.

    (sarcasm)



    Posted via CB10
    08-30-15 02:37 PM
  12. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    Yes. Finished. When they release an OS it is finished. That's why it's called an update. You update the finished version.

    LOL indeed.

    Yes, you're right. Android is coming out and BlackBerry will announce they're done with BlackBerry 10.

    (sarcasm)



    Posted via CB10
    Don't play smart... You said 'they are finished' very much implying that there was nothing else for them to do, and thus 'it would be easy or free' for them to just offer it as an optional freebie on their devices.

    Posted via CB10
    08-30-15 02:54 PM
  13. europolska00's Avatar
    Don't play smart... You said 'they are finished' very much implying that there was nothing else for them to do, and thus 'it would be easy or free' for them to just offer it as an optional freebie on their devices.

    Posted via CB10
    No, that was your interpretation. Had you kept reading, I even specifically stated that they would have maintenance costs, but that they would be negligible compared to the cost of finishing the OS.

    I'll stop playing smart if you stop playing dumb.

    Thank you.

    Posted via CB10
    08-30-15 03:28 PM
  14. europolska00's Avatar
    Don't play smart... You said 'they are finished' very much implying that there was nothing else for them to do, and thus 'it would be easy or free' for them to just offer it as an optional freebie on their devices.

    Posted via CB10
    I don't know why you put 'it would be easy or free' in quotations. I never said that, nor implied either. I simply said the cost would not be that of creating two OS, that the cost would be much more negligible. That they would simply be modifying Android, and maintaining the two OS.

    I think you should read more carefully. And quotations are for quoting, you made those words up. They're no where anywhere in my post. And again, what I wrote doesn't even imply what you wrote.

    Posted via CB10
    08-30-15 03:39 PM
  15. RyanGermann's Avatar
    Don't play smart... You said 'they are finished' very much implying that there was nothing else for them to do, and thus 'it would be easy or free' for them to just offer it as an optional freebie on their devices.
    instead of splitting hairs about grammar, you could try saying "I didn't think of it that way." or "you're right, I hadn't considered that."

    There are plenty of ways discussed in this thread how this could be managed in a carrier-, user-, and enterprise-customer friendly way.

    The Passport running BB10 is almost the same hardware as the HTC One M8 except for possibly patented BlackBerry tech in the Passport not in the M8: I believe that Android CAN run on existing BB10 hardware, and an option for the aforementioned constituencies to choose Android OR BB10 before BlackBerry delivers the device to the 'constituent' is feasible, an a tool that lets the customer switch (lossily, without being able to transfer OS settings between OSes) is perfectly feasible and can be made user friendly and practical. I would love BlackBerry to adopt this approach because it gives those curious but wary of BB10 a 'risk free' way to try the EXCELLENT BB10 OS on a powerful innovative device that's going to get a disproportionate amount (relative to current BB10 market share) of media attention when it becomes available.

    PLEASE BlackBerry: open the purse strings and spend some money on marketing, and DON'T be ashamed to market BB10 (don't make it ALL about Android): this is BB10's chance to find a new audience of users that are like many of us: apps don't count as much as the core OS capabilities... I think there are 10's of millions of iOS and Android users for which BB10 would be very appropriate, if they only knew...

    Posted via CB10
    08-30-15 07:32 PM
  16. europolska00's Avatar
    instead of splitting hairs about grammar, you could try saying "I didn't think of it that way." or "you're right, I hadn't considered that."

    There are plenty of ways discussed in this thread how this could be managed in a carrier-, user-, and enterprise-customer friendly way.

    The Passport running BB10 is almost the same hardware as the HTC One M8 except for possibly patented BlackBerry tech in the Passport not in the M8: I believe that Android CAN run on existing BB10 hardware, and an option for the aforementioned constituencies to choose Android OR BB10 before BlackBerry delivers the device to the 'constituent' is feasible, an a tool that lets the customer switch (loosely, without being able to transfer OS settings between OSes) is perfectly feasible and can be made user friendly and practical. I would love BlackBerry to adopt this approach because it gives those curious but wary of BB10 a 'risk free' way to try the EXCELLENT BB10 OS on a powerful innovative device thatks going to get a disproportionate amount (relative to current BB10 market share) of media attention when it becomes available.

    PLEASE BlackBerry: open the purse strings and spend some money on marketing, and DON'T be ashamed to market BB10 (don't make it ALL about Android): this is BB10's chance to find a new audience of users that are like many of us: apps don't count as much as the core OS capabilities... I think there are 10's of millions of iOS and Android users for which BB10 would be very appropriate, if they only knew...

    Posted via CB10
    Agreed. This would be an excellent way to get BlackBerry into people's hands, and if they're willing, a risk free way to try BlackBerry 10.

    I'm also concerned about the lack of marketing. My new girlfriend saw my Passport and had no clue BlackBerry had moved this far ahead. She didn't know they made a new OS and thought BlackBerry stopped with the Torch. She is now considering getting a BlackBerry and dropping her iPhone. I have read rumors that Google might be helping to advertise the Venice. It wants to show off a secured Android and Play availability on BlackBerry. I hope this rumor turns out to be true.

    Posted via CB10
    08-30-15 07:43 PM
  17. kbz1960's Avatar
    It takes them forever to fix bugs and not introduce new ones. What makes anyone think they can maintain 2 OS's? Or one OS and BB10 layer on top of Android?
    extisis and AnimalPak200 like this.
    08-30-15 08:13 PM
  18. DarkJoker33's Avatar
    What Cgk means is if BlackBerry get this concession then Samsung if going to want the same for tizen, LG for WebOS and everyone else with a propriety OS. Then you have all these different OS out there competing with android. Why would google want that? If android market share drops then there's less data they can get. Risk vs reward doesn't seem that great for Google. Consumer comes out smelling like a rose though :-)
    They are not giving play store permissions to the bb10 side of the phone, only the android side.
    So how could samsung,lg and anyone else make that claim?
    They can't. Because they are using a completely forked version of android OS.

    We well have the option to choose the OS at the storefront. If you happen to choose Droid you get a full featured running android with play services.

    Then if you choose BB10, you get BB10 and hopefully a run time. In making this choice, you would not get official play services from google.

    Neither conflict with each other.
    They are completely separate. Since the device is a blank slate until the choice is made.

    Via Passport via CB10
    08-31-15 05:29 AM
  19. extisis's Avatar

    We well have the option to choose the OS at the storefront. If you happen to choose Droid you get a full featured running android with play services.

    Then if you choose BB10, you get BB10 and hopefully a run time. In making this choice, you would not get official play services from google.

    Neither conflict with each other.
    They are completely separate. Since the device is a blank slate until the choice is made.

    Via Passport via CB10
    You have a source? Or are just spewing the same speculation we've seen in CB since this crap started.

    Posted via CB10
    08-31-15 05:48 AM
  20. powereds's Avatar
    We'll save the BlackBerry Optiplex for the super-secret docking kiosk project.
    Optiplex? Is that Dell?

    "But I say this to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you;" - Matthew 5:44
    kbz1960 likes this.
    08-31-15 06:01 AM
  21. DarkJoker33's Avatar
    You have a source? Or are just spewing the same speculation we've seen in CB since this crap started.

    Posted via CB10
    I'm basing it completely off the article.
    Do you have a source for it not being so?
    I thought not.
    As I said in a previous posting, it's still a rumor.

    And what does speculation hurt? Nothing



    Via Passport via CB10
    08-31-15 06:23 AM
  22. anon8898370's Avatar
    ^^^^^
    Where there is smoke there is fire!


    Posted from my Z30 with Google Play Store
    08-31-15 07:53 AM
  23. lnichols's Avatar
    Posted via Z30
    08-31-15 08:12 AM
  24. extisis's Avatar
    I'm basing it completely off the article.
    Do you have a source for it not being so?
    I thought not.
    As I said in a previous posting, it's still a rumor.

    And what does speculation hurt? Nothing



    Via Passport via CB10
    Say that then, within the same post. Then you won't be questioned.

    And no, obviously it's all speculation. That was my point.

    Posted via CB10
    08-31-15 09:30 AM
  25. DarkJoker33's Avatar
    Say that then, within the same post. Then you won't be questioned.

    And no, obviously it's all speculation. That was my point.

    Posted via CB10
    If you read my previous posts, you would have seen it.
    I'm not going to type rumor in every post I contribute to this thread.
    You know because that's pretty much what the entire thread is based on.

    Via Passport via CB10
    08-31-15 11:03 AM
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