10-04-14 09:01 AM
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  1. prplhze2000's Avatar
    Heins was like everyone else at BlackBerry, had a lot of ideas but couldn't execute, plan, or meet a deadline worth a damn.

    It's called management for a reason, not genius in chief

    Posted via CB10
    09-25-14 10:08 PM
  2. supraking's Avatar
    You wash your baby in a bucket?



    Posted via CB10
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    09-25-14 11:06 PM
  3. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    I agree. Without TH, there would be no BlackBerry 10.
    But with the same sentiment as the OP has pointed out about Heins, that was all put in place by Mike and Jim. They got a lot of grief for the failures of RIM but they had a lot of this envisioned a long time ago. They bought QNX and adapted it for the PB which is the origin of BB10. Heins can take credit like Chen said, because he didn't cancel it.
    Superfly_FR and bungaboy like this.
    09-25-14 11:56 PM
  4. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    TSM: yup. See the "continuation bet" ?
    These guys must be solid at poker ...
    09-26-14 03:09 AM
  5. sandman10's Avatar
    Um, sorry to burst your Heins bubble,

    but the Passport project started some 7 years ago, long before Heins took the reins.

    Laziridis, Heins, and Chen were all skeptical of the product. Heins especially after hearing negative comments from focus groups.

    You can thank the non-managment staunch supporters INSIDE BlackBerry for creating and designing something as cool and unique as the passport.

    LAZIRIDIS, HEINS, AND CHEN ALL DOUBTED POLARIZING PASSPORT........
    With Passport, BlackBerry bets on 'polarizing' device - The Globe and Mail
    09-26-14 05:53 AM
  6. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    7 years ago ? 2007 ? Hum ...
    [Thread follow-up] I confirm : thanks, mister Heins !-blackberry-8830-sprint-veri.jpg

    Yet, let's give him - whatever the time frame - the same credit J.C claimed "he didn't ditch it"
    But without BB10 ...
    bungaboy likes this.
    09-26-14 08:08 AM
  7. chopachain's Avatar
    Blend + PassPort = Tablets will be dead soon. Thanks T Heins.

    Ok, so if that was seven years ago, why the Storm?
    Superfly_FR and bungaboy like this.
    09-26-14 08:26 AM
  8. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    You wash your baby in a bucket?



    Posted via CB10
    edited for ya
    09-26-14 10:59 AM
  9. sandman10's Avatar
    The article states that they were considering a bigger screen "in the later 2000's", when Laziridis was still CEO. Likely it was just a concept/drawing stage and the idea never died down.

    I'm not trying to turn this into a bash Heins thread, but facts are facts. He wasn't crazy about the device, and of the 3 CEO's, it appears he was the one that was most against it.

    He's also the muppett that nearly caused BB to bleed to death, by bowing to pressure from the carriers to reduce service carrier fee's which is great and everything, but didn't have a strategy in place to recoup the lost revenue. Chen says, "he never would have bowed to their pressure"

    In conclusion, I think the all the "thanks" and praise should go to Chen. In 10 months, he's accomplished a lot, and if he completes this turnaround successfully, will be worthy of Hero status.


    P.S. the Storm was their answer to the iPhone. thats a topic for another thread. Verizon and others were pressuring BB to come up with a worthy iPhone competitor, and we all know what happened next.
    09-26-14 03:47 PM
  10. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Well, I believe there's something weird in your time frame(s) approach. Like juxtaposed but barely related events. That's what most analysts have done since I really got involved in BlackBerry story, late 2010.
    Just remember Thor played a tune he didn't compose as J.C (and others) stated many times. I'm not sure anyone may have performed better. When Heins arrived chances to *survive* were commonly set to 20%. He had to perform a drastic "dirty job" and he did. He's a C manager. He knew day 1 what it meant. He won't stand long in the company. You can't when your job is to snipe and squeeze. Yet he succeed - with delays and so, I'm not amnesiac - and BB10 was there, finally.

    When mister Chen took the reins, he was talking about 50% chances to *succeed*.

    Again, you won't read me but to praise J.C work.
    The above remains true.


    Posted via CB10
    bungaboy likes this.
    09-26-14 07:00 PM
  11. nbaliga's Avatar
    I'm sorry but I feel the exact opposite:

    It was Heins who did the MOST damage to the brand by offering the company for sale (yes, I know it was the board, but he had to push it). I believe this because when this came about, Aerospace companies I work with decided to look at other devices because they were worried about BBRY's sustainability. They eventually told people to NOT upgrade phones till they rolled out new devices, now I see a lot of them carrying Galaxy phones.

    This idea to put the company up for a yard sale did the absolute worst harm because it made the company look desperate and on the verge of insolvency. This gave MDM companies more leg to take enterprise business away from BBRY.

    It was Heins who came up with the Q10 - The toolbelt would have sold a lot more devices on launch
    It was Heins who thought Alicia Keys was a great marketing asset
    It was Heins who had a launch party in January and we didn't see devices available till May.
    It was Heins who converted Kevin to an IPhone....okay, maybe that's going too far.
    09-26-14 07:15 PM
  12. prplhze2000's Avatar
    Don't forget it was Heins who also delayed BBM

    Posted via CB10
    09-26-14 07:47 PM
  13. smart548's Avatar
    Heins fault was not and never will be BB10 and the innovation he wanted to bring. He simply was not the most capable in other terms. I truly believe that JC would had done even better WITH Heins at his side.. I'm loving how John Chen inverted the trend from an "economic"/"strategic" point of view. I'm hoping that he will do even better in the next months, also on the "creative/innovation" side!
    09-27-14 03:39 PM
  14. sandman10's Avatar
    Heins was the one, who hilariously stated... "there is nothing wrong with the current blackberry", when the ship was clearly sinking.

    Mistake was made to hire a CEO from within who was in a reality distortion field.

    If they got CHEN in there sooner, they'd be in far better shape today.
    09-27-14 04:35 PM
  15. prplhze2000's Avatar
    Heins did nothing to change culture or meet deadlines.

    Posted via CB10
    09-27-14 09:57 PM
  16. BanffMoose's Avatar
    Heins did nothing to change culture or meet deadlines.

    Posted via CB10
    Isn't this a bit of revisionist history? He delayed BB10 by several months and even CB staff said in the end they agreed that the delay was necessary. Under Heins' tenure BlackBerry was hitting their development deadlines.
    09-27-14 11:04 PM
  17. BanffMoose's Avatar
    Heins was the one, who hilariously stated... "there is nothing wrong with the current blackberry", when the ship was clearly sinking.

    Mistake was made to hire a CEO from within who was in a reality distortion field.

    If they got CHEN in there sooner, they'd be in far better shape today.
    I take issue with your contempt for Heins and his comment.

    IIRC, at the time he said that, BlackBerry was still working hard on transitioning from BBOS to PB OS 2, and BB10 hadn't yet been named. Most of the world was trying to pressure BlackBerry to switch to Android. Under Heins, BlackBerry stuck to it's roots of security and privacy first and to control it's destiny by controlling the hardware and the OS and the entire infrastructure that maintains the security and privacy. Heins realized there was a lot if bloat amongst the ranks and he set about trimming BlackBerry down with its CORE program.

    Given that the entire Android market was a race to the bottom as OEMs could only fight with price and hardware specs, BlackBerry was wise to stay out of that world as much as possible. BlackBerry can't survive in that kind of world. You can't build a secure platform if the underlying OS is riddled with security holes like Android is. (Just look at the state if KNOX). The Nokia/Microsoft arrangement showed the world the ill effects of a hardware vendor having to wait for an OS vendor to supply the necessary changes to the OS in order to accomplish what the hardware vendor wanted to do.

    In my view, Heins wasn't in a reality distortion field. He had clarity of vision. The problem was that he and his team really misread the true nature of the fight they were about to face. BlackBerry didn't have the resources that all its competitors had...alternate income sources that could fund a very long and costly war. The misread was the failure that led to the bad rollout of BB10, and the "for sale sign" and for getting John Chen.
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    09-28-14 12:30 AM
  18. sandman10's Avatar
    I take issue with your contempt for Heins and his comment.

    .
    Of course.... Heins is the man.

    internal turmoil, massive financial losses, plummeting marketshare........... but "theres nothing wrong with the company as it exists right now!!" :lol:

    RIM CEO Thorsten Heins says there is 'nothing wrong' with the company | The Verge


    The problem was that he and his team really misread the true nature of the fight they were about to face. .
    yes, this is the reality distortion field we speak of. To them, BB10 was this magical OS that would transform the game. They were obviously blind to the fact that they were too late to the party and with a limited budget, no apps and mid range spec products thought they could take on iPhone and the best from Samsung. This is reality.

    I won't even get into the ridiculous and ******** super bowl commercial that had nothing to do with the actual product and why it was so "great". Only Heins could have given the green light on that one.

    They were abandoning their core enterprise market, and chasing the consumer. Miserable fail. This can't be denied.

    Clearly Chens vision is working.
    Last edited by sandman10; 09-28-14 at 06:39 AM.
    09-28-14 06:28 AM
  19. dguy123's Avatar
    I agree with what you're saying but I don't think nowadays you can market the business professional without reminding them that they AREN'T giving up entertainment when there's time for it.

    I'm amazed at how many businesses professionals use iphones nowadays and Blackberry's seems to keep getting caught on the wrong end of the trend when in the past they attempted to market bb10 to the masses with its full capabilities and now going hard after the other end of the spectrum but maybe not being responsive enough to how the enterprise user has changed.

    I think they SHOULD be going after the MDM enterprise market but nowadays that means it must have creature comforts (which they have) but aren't marketing!

    Posted via CB10
    ?? MDM is mobile device management and has nothing to do with what games or other popular apps are or are not available for BB10. Well other than being able to prevent them from being put on a device at all. But that goes for android and ios devices being managed by BlackBerry MDM as well as BlackBerry devices.
    Or did you maen, "MDM is fine BUT they need to offer a full ecosystem for they're phones if they want their phones to do well in the enterprise space? In which case I agree.

    Posted via CB10
    09-28-14 09:51 AM
  20. BanffMoose's Avatar
    Of course.... Heins is the man.

    internal turmoil, massive financial losses, plummeting marketshare........... but "theres nothing wrong with the company as it exists right now!!" :lol:

    RIM CEO Thorsten Heins says there is 'nothing wrong' with the company | The Verge




    yes, this is the reality distortion field we speak of. To them, BB10 was this magical OS that would transform the game. They were obviously blind to the fact that they were too late to the party and with a limited budget, no apps and mid range spec products thought they could take on iPhone and the best from Samsung. This is reality.

    I won't even get into the ridiculous and ******** super bowl commercial that had nothing to do with the actual product and why it was so "great". Only Heins could have given the green light on that one.

    They were abandoning their core enterprise market, and chasing the consumer. Miserable fail. This can't be denied.

    Clearly Chens vision is working.
    OK, Churchill quote time : "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else."

    Chen's "vision" is working because Heins showed that pursuing the mass market consumer was a dead end for BlackBerry. It still is today. Back in mid-2012 when Heins made that comment "consumerization of IT" and BYOD was all the rage. In the minds of consumers it still is the rage, but slowly employees and employers are beginning to realize that BYOD has a lot of real issues. Also, Heins didn't abandon the enterprise, he attacked it by addressing end user pain points. BB10 (and it's ability to multi task and play games), and BlackBerry Balance (and it's ability to keep work and personal separate) and BES 10 is evidence of that. But again when Heins made his statement, all of that was still in development and you condemn him for mistakes he made AFTER the comment.


    You can demonize Heins all you want. But the reality is that virtually every thing GOOD and bad John Chen has to work with were initiated under the Lazaridis/Balsillie or Heins tenure. That goes for BB10, Balance, BES10, QNX, etc.
    09-28-14 11:02 AM
  21. sandman10's Avatar
    You can demonize Heins all you want. But the reality is that virtually every thing GOOD and bad John Chen has to work with were initiated under the Lazaridis/Balsillie or Heins tenure. That goes for BB10, Balance, BES10, QNX, etc.
    After all those brilliant things Heins brought to the table, this is why Heins panicked to sell off the company and wash his hands of the whole thing, rather than restructure ala Chen?
    09-28-14 11:23 AM
  22. BanffMoose's Avatar
    After all those brilliant things Heins brought to the table, this is why Heins panicked to sell off the company and wash his hands of the whole thing, rather than restructure ala Chen?


    Two things:
    1) Heins' entire tenure was during a restructure period that continues to today and has another year or two to go. When Prem Watsa joined the board in 2011(?) and became a shareholder, Prem said the turnaround was a five year ordeal. Heins' downsizing and restructuring program, CORE, was finished under Chen's watch this year.

    2) Bringing a product to market and then being able to sell it are two very different things. From the outsiders point of view the majority of the mistakes Heins and his team made were related to the launch and marketing of the product, not the product itself.

    Going back to 1), by the time the decision to sell the company was announced everyone knew Heins made way too many mistakes and had to go.No one had faith in him anymore.


    Let's hope the behind the scenes story of Heins' years gets published one day. It will be an interesting read to say the least.
    09-28-14 01:48 PM
  23. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    After all those brilliant things Heins brought to the table, this is why Heins panicked to sell off the company and wash his hands of the whole thing, rather than restructure ala Chen?
    That wouldn't have been Heins' decision, but rather the Board of Directors' decision. The CEO is an employee of the Board, and their job is to lead the company, but not to decide to sell it or not. He obviously had some input, but even Mike and Jim (when they were coCEOs) wouldn't have been in a position to make such a decision.
    09-28-14 02:04 PM
  24. sandman10's Avatar
    That wouldn't have been Heins' decision, but rather the Board of Directors' decision. The CEO is an employee of the Board, and their job is to lead the company, but not to decide to sell it or not. He obviously had some input, but even Mike and Jim (when they were coCEOs) wouldn't have been in a position to make such a decision.
    Why did the board decide to sell? Clearly because of Heins incompetence and lack of back up strategy.
    09-28-14 04:02 PM
  25. cjcampbell's Avatar
    Why did the board decide to sell? Clearly because of Heins incompetence and lack of back up strategy.
    It was one option they put forth and everyone focused on that, and only that one. Finding investment capital was another, and that's the route they moved forward with.

    Posted via CB10
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    09-28-14 04:05 PM
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