06-20-15 07:48 AM
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  1. j_the_p's Avatar
    So would it work on the Passport if:
    1. Get NFC Nano-SIM from Bell
    2. Install it in my Z10 using a nano-SIM adapter
    3. Install Ugo on Z10
    4. Backup Ugo using BlackBerry Link
    5. Insert nano-SIM in Passport
    6. Restore Ugo backup on Passport

    ??

    Posted via my BlackBerry Passport
    12-09-14 04:41 PM
  2. ocgltd's Avatar
    I installed the app on my Q10 (Rogers) running the latest BB OS available. The app complains that the phone is incompatible, Rogers is not supported, and the OS is too old (even though it meets the specs on the web site).

    I've read the instructions...that's not the problem. I have a problem accepting that I need to buy an NFC SIM to "safely" store my credit card info. SIM's already have storage - but then again you CAN safely store data on the phone encrypted. Like a said, what a mess
    12-10-14 08:28 AM
  3. HighFlight88's Avatar
    I installed the app on my Q10 (Rogers) running the latest BB OS available. The app complains that the phone is incompatible, Rogers is not supported, and the OS is too old (even though it meets the specs on the web site).

    I've read the instructions...that's not the problem. I have a problem accepting that I need to buy an NFC SIM to "safely" store my credit card info. SIM's already have storage - but then again you CAN safely store data on the phone encrypted. Like a said, what a mess
    If you don't have the $5 NFC-compatible SIM, you're out at First Base. You won't get any further.

    Q10 ? The Other Crackberry Pirate ? Z30 | via CB10
    12-10-14 08:41 AM
  4. timboalogo's Avatar
    I installed the app on my Q10 (Rogers) running the latest BB OS available. The app complains that the phone is incompatible, Rogers is not supported, and the OS is too old (even though it meets the specs on the web site).

    I've read the instructions...that's not the problem. I have a problem accepting that I need to buy an NFC SIM to "safely" store my credit card info. SIM's already have storage - but then again you CAN safely store data on the phone encrypted. Like a said, what a mess
    Not only is the NFC SIM required to store the credit card data, the app itself writes to the NFC SIM when you set up an account - I confirmed this with Ugo directly. So like the post before mine said , you won't get anywhere without the NFC SIM (which Rogers gave to me free when I bought my old Z10 over a year ago).

    Posted via CB10
    12-10-14 09:10 AM
  5. timboalogo's Avatar
    It's been a week since downloading the app and I've had a ticket open with Ugo for that whole time. I phoned then yesterday and today and the response yesterday was that tech support us working in something at the back end, but may phone me up so that we can have a three way call with TD Bank. Today the answer was "they're still working on it" and the impression they left me was that there's a lot of tickets they're dealing with. I don't think the app was really ready for release.

    Posted via CB10
    12-10-14 04:08 PM
  6. MmmHmm's Avatar
    If you don't have the $5 NFC-compatible SIM, you're out at First Base. You won't get any further.

    Q10 ? The Other Crackberry Pirate ? Z30 | via CB10
    Does anyone know if BlackBerry could start building a secure chip into the phone itself? Apple Pay doesn't require a special SIM on iPhones. On the iPhone you just take a picture of the credit card, enter the security code, wait about 5 to 10 seconds for activation and you are good to go. Ready to use. I guess I'm just wondering why this process on BB phones is so much more complicated. This makes it much less likely to be adopted by the average person.
    12-11-14 06:39 AM
  7. zeeten's Avatar
    Does anyone know if BlackBerry could start building a secure chip into the phone itself? Apple Pay doesn't require a special SIM on iPhones. On the iPhone you just take a picture of the credit card, enter the security code, wait about 5 to 10 seconds for activation and you are good to go. Ready to use. I guess I'm just wondering why this process on BB phones is so much more complicated. This makes it much less likely to be adopted by the average person.
    Because BlackBerry cares about security and Apple doesn't.

    Posted via CB10
    12-11-14 07:35 AM
  8. fcbold's Avatar
    Does anyone know if BlackBerry could start building a secure chip into the phone itself? Apple Pay doesn't require a special SIM on iPhones. On the iPhone you just take a picture of the credit card, enter the security code, wait about 5 to 10 seconds for activation and you are good to go. Ready to use. I guess I'm just wondering why this process on BB phones is so much more complicated. This makes it much less likely to be adopted by the average person.
    Apple pay doesn't secure your credit card information. I wouldn't trust it. Look what happened with iCloud. Imagine if the hackers could get direct access to your credit card info...

    Posted via CB10
    12-11-14 07:49 AM
  9. MmmHmm's Avatar
    Apple pay doesn't secure your credit card information. I wouldn't trust it. Look what happened with iCloud. Imagine if the hackers could get direct access to your credit card info...

    Posted via CB10
    I only have a layman's understanding of how the security works with these things. I don't want to hijack the thread and make it about Apple Pay. But I'm hoping that this can be streamlined a bit on BB10 (while maintaining security), to make it easier to set up.
    12-11-14 11:00 AM
  10. blackberry_juice's Avatar
    Does anyone know if BlackBerry could start building a secure chip into the phone itself? ...
    I tried finding the article that I read a while back, but couldn't so will go from memory here, thus standard disclaimers if I get anything wrong:

    Essentially, the answer to your question is: Yes. BlackBerry (or any device manufacturer for that matter) can locate the Secure Element (SE) within the phone itself as opposed to an external like a SIM card.

    When Mobile Payments were being planned out, BlackBerry (then RIM) actually wanted the SE to be housed within the phone. This was in line with what most other device manufacturers wanted to do as well. Sadly, carriers, in their infinite wisdom, demanded that the SE be located on their SIM cards. The idea being that if the carrier was required to participate in the transaction to facilitate a Mobile Payment, they could command a percentage of the transaction (they wanted a cut).

    Well, the rest as they say, is history. BlackBerry and the participating device manufactures did not have enough power to arm twist the carriers into submission, and so the SE was located on carrier SIM cards. This is one of the main reasons we now have this ridiculous Public Beta program we call Mobile Payments in Canada.

    Then along comes Apple, who does have the power to do what they want, threw out the whole ridiculous idea of keeping the SE on the SIM card and just put the SE on their phones like what BlackBerry wanted to do at the start. Thus creating a much better overall user experience with less barriers to get their users up and running.

    In the future...

    This could all be for naught anyway, because VISA and Mastercard are working on a way to get the Secure Element into the cloud through something called Host Card Emulation (HCE). Thus completely removing the need for the SE to be either on the SIM card or on the phone. It will be interesting to see how this continues to play out.
    12-11-14 03:34 PM
  11. app_Developer's Avatar
    Because BlackBerry cares about security and Apple doesn't.

    Posted via CB10
    The actual reason is because Apple built a secure element into their SoC, and had that element reviewed and approved by MasterCard, Visa, American Express and several large banks.

    BlackBerry could have done exactly the same thing years ago, but that would have meant telling the phone carriers to go fly a kite. Apple was willing to do that and bypass the carriers all together.

    On phones other than the iPhone, the special SIMs are needed because the phone carriers control the secure elements needed for payment. They build that into their own SIMs.


    Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk
    12-11-14 03:41 PM
  12. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Apple pay doesn't secure your credit card information. I wouldn't trust it. Look what happened with iCloud. Imagine if the hackers could get direct access to your credit card info...

    Posted via CB10
    Tangentially speaking...
    12-11-14 03:57 PM
  13. MmmHmm's Avatar
    I tried finding the article that I read a while back, but couldn't so will go from memory here, thus standard disclaimers if I get anything wrong:

    Essentially, the answer to your question is: Yes. BlackBerry (or any device manufacturer for that matter) can locate the Secure Element (SE) within the phone itself as opposed to an external like a SIM card.

    When Mobile Payments were being planned out, BlackBerry (then RIM) actually wanted the SE to be housed within the phone. This was in line with what most other device manufacturers wanted to do as well. Sadly, carriers, in their infinite wisdom, demanded that the SE be located on their SIM cards. The idea being that if the carrier was required to participate in the transaction to facilitate a Mobile Payment, they could command a percentage of the transaction (they wanted a cut).

    Well, the rest as they say, is history. BlackBerry and the participating device manufactures did not have enough power to arm twist the carriers into submission, and so the SE was located on carrier SIM cards. This is one of the main reasons we now have this ridiculous Public Beta program we call Mobile Payments in Canada.

    Then along comes Apple, who does have the power to do what they want, threw out the whole ridiculous idea of keeping the SE on the SIM card and just put the SE on their phones like what BlackBerry wanted to do at the start. Thus creating a much better overall user experience with less barriers to get their users up and running.

    In the future...

    This could all be for naught anyway, because VISA and Mastercard are working on a way to get the Secure Element into the cloud through something called Host Card Emulation (HCE). Thus completely removing the need for the SE to be either on the SIM card or on the phone. It will be interesting to see how this continues to play out.
    Very helpful. Thanks for the info.
    12-11-14 04:05 PM
  14. sebstarr's Avatar
    Very helpful. Thanks for the info.
    Yup HEC is here. Great news is that with this there won't be any eligible device crap. Some of the existing apps will likely be updated in 2015 to reflect this change which means from what I understand minimal platform, OS and device nonsense

    Posted via CB10
    12-11-14 05:52 PM
  15. timboalogo's Avatar
    An update on my tales of woe with the app: Ugo support called me back and said they'd have to get a three way call going with TD Bank, who would then cancel the provisioning of my TD Visa to allow me to try to add it again. It was at that point that TD tech checked and saw that my TD Visa Card is a joint account with my wife, and she is the primary card holder...and this is what caused the problem when trying to add my card. TD tech said that any mobile wallet has to be set up first by the primary card holder, and then authorised users can add their cards. So that's what we did, and now the app works.

    The app is slow to open, so you want to have the app open and running if you're going shopping.

    Posted via CB10
    12-11-14 06:48 PM
  16. timboalogo's Avatar
    This link is to an interesting PDF white paper on the topic if HCE and SE NFC payments. It was written this summer, before Apple Pay came out.

    It mentions that BB10 is capable of HCE, so theoretically could do without a NFC SIM with a Secure Element (SE). But it seems it would require more back end support. Anyway, it's interesting reading.
    http://www.google.ca/url?q=http://ww...u7GVrMLcuVKH9w

    Posted via CB10
    12-11-14 07:25 PM
  17. app_Developer's Avatar
    This link is to an interesting PDF white paper on the topic if HCE and SE NFC payments. It was written this summer, before Apple Pay came out.

    It mentions that BB10 is capable of HCE, so theoretically could do without a NFC SIM with a Secure Element (SE). But it seems it would require more back end support. Anyway, it's interesting reading.
    http://www.google.ca/url?q=http://ww...u7GVrMLcuVKH9w

    Posted via CB10
    HCE is an option, but as you said, it requires that banks and payment networks that are willing to work with BB on this. If BB can turn around market share that would help...

    The other option is to actually build in their own hardware SE into the phones, like Apple did.


    Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk
    12-11-14 07:34 PM
  18. timboalogo's Avatar
    Yes, the Apple solution seems to be a clever one, using a hybrid of both HCE and SE, in that it uses tokens, but also has an SE built into the device. It would seem that Apple has taken advantage of what the article describes as the big three card companies (MC, Visa, and Amex) agreeing on a tokenization standard late last year.

    Posted via CB10
    12-11-14 08:20 PM
  19. sfor13thlegion's Avatar
    UGO app = a mess. You have to buy an NFC SIM card (even if your phone already has NFC built in), UGO refuses to run on Rogers network, doesn't work on the latest Q10 OS version even though Q10 listed as compatible on the UGO website, and more...

    Not sure what happened here but I'm not going to put that kind of effort into making app work...
    Funny, my experience was quite the opposite to yours.

    I'm running Ugo on my Z10 with the latest Rogers OS.

    I went to the Rogers store and was surprised that they didn't charge me for a Sure tap enabled NFC SIM.

    I slapped it into my phone and downloaded Ugo...piece of cake.

    Adding my card took about ten minutes but after that it worked like a charm.

    I use it almost daily and love the freedom of not having to dig into my wallet for my credit card and Pc plus card.

    Posted via CB10
    12-12-14 01:35 PM
  20. Person421's Avatar
    I have been interested in this since first coming across it on another website. Incredibly enough, I hit the trifecta of carrier, bank(s) and device! We really are in the very early, BETA stages of mobile payments! Telus installed an NFC enabled sim for no charge, so this aspect of the process is only a minor procedure. I don't understand why UGO is not promoted or even mentioned on TD or Loblaws websites. Only early adopter techies would even hear about it and only a few of them would try it - and test it out! Maybe I just answered my own question! As it is now, there is no advantage to using the app - it's more involved than just tapping your card, and until all merchants have tap-to-pay you still need to carry your card. I'm quite surprised that 2 heavyweights would make such a half-hearted attempt at something. I asked at my local Superstore about UGO and they recommended waiting until it was further developed before using it. At the moment, it's like the Tim Hortons app - which doesn't do anything that tapping your credit card can't do, but does offer the potential for including some type of extra benefit in the future.
    12-14-14 03:28 PM
  21. blackberry_juice's Avatar
    Incredibly enough, I hit the trifecta of carrier, bank(s) and device!
    Great to hear - as most people don't line up perfectly. With time, as more carriers and cards come on board, hopefully we'll see more people using and getting comfortable with this tech.

    As it is now, there is no advantage to using the app - it's more involved than just tapping your card, and until all merchants have tap-to-pay you still need to carry your card.
    You are right on all counts. Two things I would add is that when I'm waiting in line to buy lunch or coffee or small purchases I usually have my phone out anyway, whereas my wallet is the one tucked away in a jacket or back pocket.

    Also, there seems to be a bit of a "magical" moment when cashiers see me pay with my Z10.

    At the moment, it's like the Tim Hortons app - which doesn't do anything that tapping your credit card can't do, but does offer the potential for including some type of extra benefit in the future.
    The baby steps we've witnessed with Ugo and other Mobile Payment Banking Apps are great (albeit slow) steps in a forward direction. But yes, I agree, the real win is in the future potential of where the industry can bring together finance, loyalty and mobile payments.

    As an example, I have in my wallet three different coffee cards that I'm trying to fill out in the hopes of getting a free cup of joe. Every time I visit the store and forget my existing card I end up starting a new one (thus my current count at three). It would be great if we could get digital versions of these loyalty cards. Starbucks does this really well already.

    Restaurants also have an opportunity to embrace Mobile Payments. But not just the tap portion. Imagine a waiter or waitress passing patrons a QR Code which you scan and then complete the tip portion and payment on your phone. No more passing around the one payment machine to ten different people. Couple that with a "loyalty" program (fifth lunch free, coupons, or something) and you can really start to see tangible user benefits beyond just tap to pay. Perhaps even follow up with a guest survey - did you enjoy your meal - here's a digital coupon if you fill out our survey etc.

    These are just two simple use cases of a coffee shop and restaurant. The possibilities really are limitless.
    12-15-14 03:05 PM
  22. anon1727506's Avatar
    TD Bank is now launching Apple Pay in the US. No special SIM card required.

    Eligible cards are listed below:

    - TD Bank Visa Debit Card
    - TD Bank Business Visa Debit Card
    - TD Bank Private Client Visa Debit Card
    - TD Easy Rewards Visa (Platinum & Signature) Credit Card
    - TD Cash Rewards Visa (Platinum & Signature) Credit Card
    - TD Payment Plus Visa Platinum Credit Card
    - TD First Class Visa Signature Credit Card
    - TD Business Solutions Visa Credit Card
    - TD Simply Flexible Visa Business Card

    Apple didn't create NFC they weren't the first to have a Mobile Wallet and they weren't involved in the early days of mobile payments... years ago now. But they have come up with their own solution, and if you are a Bank or a Retailer.... you might as well acknowledge that Apple Pay is the new standard. So in other words Apple invented mobile payments

    Have to see what kind of issue crop up and if the Apple or the BlackBerry/Android solution "work" the best.
    12-15-14 04:04 PM
  23. Person421's Avatar
    Starbucks does this really well already.
    Yes, I'm waiting for 10.3.1 and then I'll load the Android app for Starbucks. At present I use MAKE, but it doesn't keep track of points or balance automatically. I always thought it was very ironic for Starbucks to not have a BlackBerry app since at one time BB owners were probably the bulk of their clientele! Another smaller chain I like doesn't have any app and no tap terminals in some locations so it's like two different worlds. (Great coffee though!)
    12-15-14 05:35 PM
  24. j_the_p's Avatar
    So would it work on the Passport if:
    1. Get NFC Nano-SIM from Bell
    2. Install it in my Z10 using a nano-SIM adapter
    3. Install Ugo on Z10
    4. Backup Ugo using BlackBerry Link
    5. Insert nano-SIM in Passport
    6. Restore Ugo backup on Passport

    ??

    Posted via my BlackBerry Passport
    Fyi... this doesn't work. I got the app working perfectly on my Z10. Then backed it up and restored on the Passport. Opened the app on Passport and here's the result...


    TD partners with Loblaw on Ugo mobile wallet for Blackberry and Android-img_20141219_145857.png

    Posted via my BlackBerry Passport
    12-19-14 01:59 PM
  25. j_the_p's Avatar
    Yes, I'm waiting for 10.3.1 and then I'll load the Android app for Starbucks. At present I use MAKE, but it doesn't keep track of points or balance automatically. I always thought it was very ironic for Starbucks to not have a BlackBerry app since at one time BB owners were probably the bulk of their clientele! Another smaller chain I like doesn't have any app and no tap terminals in some locations so it's like two different worlds. (Great coffee though!)
    Sorry for the off-topic question, but why are you waiting for 10.3.1 to load the Starbucks android app? Works fine on 10.2.

    Posted via my BlackBerry Passport
    12-19-14 03:55 PM
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