06-19-14 03:49 PM
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  1. anon1727506's Avatar
    I could see Google giving BlackBerry access to Google Play just to **** off Apple and Microsoft, especially the latter. The best way to revive BlackBerry for consumers would be to give each 10 device available access to the Play store and services. That gives BB10 a massive advantage over Windows Phone. That chips away at WP's growing market share and Apple's dwindling numbers compared to Android. Google wants access to everyone so why not bring BlackBerry back to third and have their nose in the iron door while they're at it? In return, BlackBerry makes a line of Android or "hybrid" devices both touch and qwerty.

    All signs are pointing to either an Android by BlackBerry or Google Play on BlackBerry. That or fear/wishful thinking is getting the better of people.

    Posted via CB10
    Don't think Google makes decision that way....

    And while Google is a major member of the Open Handset Alliance, there are a number of other members. Mostly handset manufactures that in no way will care if BlackBerry survives or dies (or they might love it if BlackBerry did die). If Google wanted to open Google Play up, they would have to get those other members to agree as there are already legal contract in place that limit official access. And Google has been working to get developers to change their code so that authorization of apps via Google Services is required for the app to work. In other words - 3rd party app stores and runtimes maybe a thing of the pass in a few years. Amazon will be ok as they have a large enough userbase to make porting over an app worthwhile - if they also provide some time of Validation Service to verify an app hasn't been pirated.

    If Google and BlackBerry are talking - it's about a Android OS. Sure BlackBerry will be allowed to provide a custom skin,and of course a few changes to allow for securing the OS a little more and locking the boot ROM. But it will be an Android OS with a little green guy.

    But an officialy full Android on BB10 or a "hybrid is wishful thinking.
    JeepBB, Witmen, mornhavon and 1 others like this.
    06-12-14 08:53 AM
  2. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Google has only continued to tighten the rules and raise the requirements for Google certification and Play access. Google has over 180 OHA members who all have to comply with the rules in order to have Play access, and most of them sell more phones each year than BB sells BB10 phones. Google is not going to let BB break the OHA rules while holding everyone else to them. OHA members would be furious, and there's just no way Google is going to risk the relationship with vendors who are selling half a billion devices a year just to help out BB.

    Some of the OHA rules that are a problem for BB:

    • OHA members can only run Google-certified Android on any phone that has Android code on it. BB's Android run-time would be considered a forked/incomplete implementation of Android, and BB would either have to discontinue BB10 entirely, or, strip out the Android player from it, if it wanted to continue selling BB10 and build Google-certified Android devices.
    • Android devices must actually be Android devices, meaning they boot into and run Android.
    • Devices must have a splash screen at boot that says "powered by Android" (in the form of a logo with minimum size requirements).

    Nothing would prevent BB from "testing" or "playing with" a forked version of Android that they don't intend to get certification on, which is exactly what Amazon has done. Just the OS itself is open-source, so they could do with it what they want.

    But if BB is looking for Google certification and official access to the Play Store, then they must become OHA members and fully comply with membership rules, and that would mean that BB10 as we know it today would have to change (i.e., the Android player removed) or be discontinued entirely.

    Anyone expecting BB to "negotiate" around these requirements is going to be very disappointed.
    JeepBB, Munx, Witmen and 4 others like this.
    06-12-14 09:09 AM
  3. Loc22's Avatar
    I agree with you. Why fight in the red ocean when you can create a blue one.

    Posted via CB10
    06-12-14 09:29 AM
  4. anon1727506's Avatar

    Anyone expecting BB to "negotiate" around these requirements is going to be very disappointed.
    Expecting.... it's a done deal in many people's mind.

    We all assume BlackBerry is working towards something with APK apps since they allowed direct installation. But maybe this is really as far as they planned to take it?

    All I do know is that with BlackBerry you can only count the eggs in the nest right now. Hoping that there will be more tomorrow or the next day only leads to disappointment.
    06-12-14 10:57 AM
  5. Munx's Avatar
    Thanks for the well laid out post Troy. Play access appears to be a long shot and a huge hurdle, but if the N4BB 2000 person layoff rumour is true then Blackberry must have a very compelling app strategy and I can't imagine anything less than Play. Thursday will be interesting.
    06-12-14 12:39 PM
  6. birdman_38's Avatar
    A negotiation involves something being offered that the other party wants. I don't really know what BlackBerry has to offer Google.
    Carrier presence, the leading MDM, patents.
    06-12-14 12:47 PM
  7. 018125's Avatar
    Google has only continued to tighten the rules and raise the requirements for Google certification and Play access. Google has over 180 OHA members who all have to comply with the rules in order to have Play access, and most of them sell more phones each year than BB sells BB10 phones. Google is not going to let BB break the OHA rules while holding everyone else to them. OHA members would be furious, and there's just no way Google is going to risk the relationship with vendors who are selling half a billion devices a year just to help out BB.

    Some of the OHA rules that are a problem for BB:

    • OHA members can only run Google-certified Android on any phone that has Android code on it. BB's Android run-time would be considered a forked/incomplete implementation of Android, and BB would either have to discontinue BB10 entirely, or, strip out the Android player from it, if it wanted to continue selling BB10 and build Google-certified Android devices.
    • Android devices must actually be Android devices, meaning they boot into and run Android.
    • Devices must have a splash screen at boot that says "powered by Android" (in the form of a logo with minimum size requirements).

    Nothing would prevent BB from "testing" or "playing with" a forked version of Android that they don't intend to get certification on, which is exactly what Amazon has done. Just the OS itself is open-source, so they could do with it what they want.

    But if BB is looking for Google certification and official access to the Play Store, then they must become OHA members and fully comply with membership rules, and that would mean that BB10 as we know it today would have to change (i.e., the Android player removed) or be discontinued entirely.

    Anyone expecting BB to "negotiate" around these requirements is going to be very disappointed.
    Access to Google Play is already facilitated through Snap. Millions of apps have been downloaded through Snap. Access to the official play store should not be considered a priority. Besides, if it's possible to root a kindle fire and install Google Play, why can't BB make their devices compatible with Play, and the installation can be fulfilled through unofficial means.

    It's the framework that Google play services provides that would result in a boost of quality high profile apps that work with BB.
    06-12-14 01:53 PM
  8. katesbb's Avatar
    2. Today N4BB posts that the entire app group is getting cut - 2000 people
    I don't know if they're going android, but this news/rumor reminds me of why I asked what Chen meant by: http://forums.crackberry.com/general...system-935801/

    I just keep thinking they may not need an app (or video, or music) store if the focus is becoming strictly Enterprise and/or niche markets with dedicated apps like Healthcare.
    06-12-14 02:22 PM
  9. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Maybe they will try to do like Nokia, coming with a custom hybrid android phone. Could be an idea. A successful one, nobody knows.

    Posted via CB10
    In essence that is what BB10 is ... a forked android (de facto).
    06-12-14 04:02 PM
  10. Bbnivende's Avatar
    The best we can hope for is a BlackBerry Android World either that or join forces with Amazon.
    06-12-14 04:05 PM
  11. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Access to Google Play is already facilitated through Snap. Millions of apps have been downloaded through Snap.
    Yes, it is, unofficially. Snap violates the Play Store TOS, but Google seems willing to tolerate that as long as it is unofficial and not promoted or endorsed by BB. If it was, that would force Google to take official notice of Snap and shut it down, if for no other reason than to placate the OHA members who wouldn't want BB bending the rules.

    That's one reason you won't see BB endorsing or talking about Snap. Another is that many apps, including major ones, won't run on BB because those apps require the Google Services Framework, which only OHA members have access to, and even some apps that don't use GSF don't run on BB10. A disclaimer about that is "good enough" to fly in emerging markets, where they don't have big Consumer Protection laws, but it probably wouldn't fly in North America or Europe.

    And finally, at any time, Google could implement something that broke Snap or even caused Android apps (at least, ones obtained from the Play Store) not to function at all on BB10's Android runtime. That could potentially result in BB being successfully sued for claiming their devices run Android apps even when (after such an update) they couldn't.

    As others have mentioned, it seems to me that the path of least resistance is actually the Amazon Marketplace. While it certainly isn't as complete, comprehensive, or up-to-date as the Play Store, at least Amazon's apps have been re-written by their developers to replace Google's services with Amazon's, which means that some Play Store apps that won't function on BB10 will work if obtained from Amazon. It's also the biggest non-Play Store Android marketplace, and certainly the most trustworthy of the Play Store alternatives. IMO, 1Market and other Chinese stores should not be trusted, at all. They are known vectors for malware.

    I have no idea what BB will actually do, but I know where the technical and legal boundaries are, and that limits BB to only a few known options.
    Bbnivende, JeepBB and mornhavon like this.
    06-12-14 04:27 PM
  12. 018125's Avatar
    Yes, it is, unofficially. Snap violates the Play Store TOS, but Google seems willing to tolerate that as long as it is unofficial and not promoted or endorsed by BB. If it was, that would force Google to take official notice of Snap and shut it down, if for no other reason than to placate the OHA members who wouldn't want BB bending the rules.

    That's one reason you won't see BB endorsing or talking about Snap. Another is that many apps, including major ones, won't run on BB because those apps require the Google Services Framework, which only OHA members have access to, and even some apps that don't use GSF don't run on BB10. A disclaimer about that is "good enough" to fly in emerging markets, where they don't have big Consumer Protection laws, but it probably wouldn't fly in North America or Europe.

    And finally, at any time, Google could implement something that broke Snap or even caused Android apps (at least, ones obtained from the Play Store) not to function at all on BB10's Android runtime. That could potentially result in BB being successfully sued for claiming their devices run Android apps even when (after such an update) they couldn't.

    As others have mentioned, it seems to me that the path of least resistance is actually the Amazon Marketplace. While it certainly isn't as complete, comprehensive, or up-to-date as the Play Store, at least Amazon's apps have been re-written by their developers to replace Google's services with Amazon's, which means that some Play Store apps that won't function on BB10 will work if obtained from Amazon. It's also the biggest non-Play Store Android marketplace, and certainly the most trustworthy of the Play Store alternatives. IMO, 1Market and other Chinese stores should not be trusted, at all. They are known vectors for malware.

    I have no idea what BB will actually do, but I know where the technical and legal boundaries are, and that limits BB to only a few known options.
    BlackBerry referenced Snap in marketing literature for the z3.
    06-12-14 04:47 PM
  13. crazigee's Avatar
    Carrier presence, the leading MDM, patents.
    I don't think that is appealing enough to Google.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    06-12-14 05:00 PM
  14. crazigee's Avatar
    No, it pretty much isn't. I said Google Play Services.
    You said unofficial and side loaded. That is pretty much what Snap is.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    06-12-14 05:01 PM
  15. c_legaspi's Avatar
    I'm all for an updated keyboard phone with an android os.

    I'm not a blackberry die hard, I just buy what best in my own interest.

    Posted via CB10
    06-12-14 08:46 PM
  16. 018125's Avatar
    You said unofficial and side loaded. That is pretty much what Snap is.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    Let me try again. Google Play Services. Not Google Play Store.
    06-13-14 01:32 AM
  17. SK122387's Avatar
    I really don't care if BlackBerry's all touch devices end up running some forked version of Android, but I hope to any God out there that they'll leave the physical keyboard devices as pure BlackBerry 10.

    Posted via CB10
    06-13-14 01:37 AM
  18. itzJustMeh's Avatar
    How many times do people need to say this doesn't make any sense? BlackBerry has good OS and not so great hardware, and most Android devices have great hardware and well, Android. I really hope they never sell one, because I don't like Android and I'm here for BB10!
    06-13-14 02:15 AM
  19. bp3dots's Avatar
    Blackberry will negotiate Play access for BB10 if they develop android.

    "Never going to happen" is the opinion of some and I understand that. But I've seen a lot stranger/more difficult deals occur.

    Posted via CB10
    This idea implies that BB has something very significant to offer Google that would make breaking the OHA rules worth it. They do not. The whole company probably isn't worth that.
    JeepBB and sentimentGX4 like this.
    06-13-14 02:20 AM
  20. campbecw's Avatar
    I personally hope this is not the case. I believe staying the course, fully embracing QNX, BB10, and continuing on the plan of refocusing the target audience is the answer. Moving to android would only appease the consumer audience and Chen made it clear that while they are not abandoning the consumer, they are not focusing on the consumer.

    I hope this is still true, as I believe they can not only survive, but thrive I that refocused arena. The consumer market is not only saturated, but fickle. Android is saturated, and fickle.

    Short Stories and Similar Submissions, a Channel dedicated to creative writing and constructive critique C003CC54C. Daily Old Radio Shows! The only Channel that actually offers you a source for entertainment. C0012487D
    lionheartsimon likes this.
    06-13-14 02:35 AM
  21. bp3dots's Avatar
    I could see Google giving BlackBerry access to Google Play just to **** off Apple and Microsoft, especially the latter. The best way to revive BlackBerry for consumers would be to give each 10 device available access to the Play store and services. That gives BB10 a massive advantage over Windows Phone. That chips away at WP's growing market share and Apple's dwindling numbers compared to Android. Google wants access to everyone so why not bring BlackBerry back to third and have their nose in the iron door while they're at it? In return, BlackBerry makes a line of Android or "hybrid" devices both touch and qwerty.

    All signs are pointing to either an Android by BlackBerry or Google Play on BlackBerry. That or fear/wishful thinking is getting the better of people.

    Posted via CB10
    Blackberry making Android phones doesn't offer Google any benefit. Nether does pissing off Apple and MSFT. Google already outsells both. (Android speaking of course, not Nexus) If Google wanted to start grabbing BB users info, they'd make BB10 apps. Just like they do for iOS. Not to mention, what good does reviving BB do for Google? It's a solid bet that if BB folded, most of those sales would go to Android, just based on how the market is split up now.

    No sign is pointing to Google Play on BB, but them making an Android phone may still be an option.
    JeepBB and Loc22 like this.
    06-13-14 02:36 AM
  22. aha's Avatar
    it wont solve google play on BB10. It would just be another android device in the sea of android devices.
    Exactly.

    What's BlackBerry 's competitive edge if they choose to make Android phones?

    Posted via CB10 with Z30STA100-5/10.2.1.3175
    06-13-14 02:48 AM
  23. JeepBB's Avatar
    BlackBerry referenced Snap in marketing literature for the z3.
    Maybe there are fewer lawyers in Indonesia?
    As Troy said, what might fly in emerging markets is unlikely to fly in Western markets where there are many many lawyers.
    Notable that the tagline "Android Ready" isn't used in marketing by BB in the US...
    06-13-14 04:11 AM
  24. ubizmo's Avatar
    What's BlackBerry 's competitive edge if they choose to make Android phones?
    Keyboard and a distinctive UI. It's not much, but then again they don't have much competitive edge with BB10 now.


    Sent from my Q10 using Tapatalk
    06-13-14 04:54 AM
  25. ofutur's Avatar
    I hope BB actually releases a cheap, secure Android. That will help them design a good ROM to put in their BB10 VM, because now, it's not as good as Cyanogenmod in terms of security/privacy.
    06-13-14 04:56 AM
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