1. peter0328's Avatar
    Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but in Japan this is being reported quite differently.

    Sony isn't exiting the electronics business, but spinning off the electronics division into a wholly owned subsidiary. The aim is to separate the electronics division financially from Sony's other core businesses (Entertainment, Insurance) in order to allow the other divisions to show their true profitability on the balance sheets while the electronics division is left to sink or swim on its own merits. Separate from the whole Sony group, the idea is also to allow the electronics division greater autonomy to respond to industry trends.

    That said if the electronics company is not profitable it will be forced to exit markets in which it is losing money (mobile) in order to return to profitability, and may fold completely if it doesn't adapt.

    From what I'm reading here its far from gone yet.
    Yes, the linked Verge article is another example of modern sensationalist media with a headline that doesn't match the content.

    Posted via CB10
    02-20-15 10:07 PM
  2. -Puck-'s Avatar
    Of course its sensationalist being a Verge article, but that's what happens when you keep coming out with $1,300 music players and $160 "Audiophile" SD cards.
    02-20-15 10:10 PM
  3. Blackberry_Boss's Avatar
    BlackBerry needs a new tablet, with a tablet OS. The look should be similar to the passport, how the active frames are on one page. With that I say Sony needs a ecosystem like windows and xbox. With QNX And BlackBerry they can create a ecosystem.

    Posted via my BeastBerry Z30
    02-21-15 01:18 PM
  4. Cozz4ever's Avatar
    To be fair, this wasn't done at the direction of Sony corporate, but rather by an independent company that Sony had contracted to make certain CDs. Yes, Sony was ultimately responsible, and had to make some preparations, but no Sony execs sat around the boardroom table saying "yes, let's install a rootkit on people's PCs!" At the time, they couldn't have told you what a rootkit even was.

    I was a HUGE Sony fan at one time, but when CEO Akio Morita, who led Sony to its peak in the 80s, retired in the early 90s, the new CEOs stopped caring about quality and only cared about expanding the brand into everything. They ended up making a ton of junk (along with some high-quality gear), all with the Sony name on it, and it didn't take too long before the junk pulled down Sony's reputation. Succeeding CEO Nobuyuki Idei obviously thought it would be the other way around, and that Sony's good reputation would help sell the junk.

    The other real issue is that Sony correctly foresaw the convergence of electronics and media, but they had relatively limited experience and understanding of software, which became increasingly important, and they kept their hardware engineers and their software teams separated, which meant that Sony's products never had the kind of integration that would have allowed them to fight off other companies, Apple-style. They tried to accomplish that with proprietary standards, but most of those were too expensive and weren't useful or desirable enough to overcome the competition. I can't say enough how badly they botched the software and integration, though. They could have had an unassailable ecosystem where everything "just worked", but they didn't know how to communicate between their divisions well enough.

    Akio Morita stood for quality, style, and ergonomics, something most other manufacturers missed, and all of those things were devalued by succeeding CEOs, and so it's no real surprise that the company that once set the standards for electronics is going to be exiting a huge portion of that market. Just because you were #1 doesn't mean you are even guaranteed a place at the table, much less the head seat. When you stop delivering value to your customers compared to the competition, your customers will stop coming to you for goods and services...
    I know where you're coming from. I repaired a few warranty based laptops. They used cheap plastic bearings in the cooling fans. It was so bad, they had to put a recall on it. Never mind hiding the fact that mother boards were over heating. Just replace fan assembly and keep mouth shut.

    Posted via CB10
    02-22-15 12:17 AM
  5. deadcowboy's Avatar
    HD DVD was very limited in hardware. The disk itself can only handle so much space while blu-ray could handle so much more. HD DVD came out sooner so it had more in terms of features. But it was only a matter of time that blu-ray would catch up. Both used Microsoft codecs. Sony went to Toshiba to collaborate a mechanism that would work on both disks buy Toshiba wanted nothing of it. Toshiba were the ones that were arrogant.

    Posted via CB10
    I remember HD-DVD tended to use better codecs like VC-1 and was thus the better format in practice. But Blu-Ray was obviously the superior option going forward, hopefully scaling up to 4K nicely.
    02-22-15 04:36 AM
  6. deadcowboy's Avatar
    Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but in Japan this is being reported quite differently.

    Sony isn't exiting the electronics business, but spinning off the electronics division into a wholly owned subsidiary. The aim is to separate the electronics division financially from Sony's other core businesses (Entertainment, Insurance) in order to allow the other divisions to show their true profitability on the balance sheets while the electronics division is left to sink or swim on its own merits. Separate from the whole Sony group, the idea is also to allow the electronics division greater autonomy to respond to industry trends.

    That said if the electronics company is not profitable it will be forced to exit markets in which it is losing money (mobile) in order to return to profitability, and may fold completely if it doesn't adapt.

    From what I'm reading here its far from gone yet.
    Interesting. I'm a fan of this plan. I want a Sony 4K TV at some point. I don't like Samsungs.
    02-22-15 04:38 AM
  7. Cozz4ever's Avatar
    I remember HD-DVD tended to use better codecs like VC-1 and was thus the better format in practice. But Blu-Ray was obviously the superior option going forward, hopefully scaling up to 4K nicely.
    Impossible for HD-DVD to use better codecs. Both systems used the same exact specs and they were all from Microsoft. VC-1 is Microsoft and Blue-Ray supports it. VC-1 is now called SMPTE. It was changed when it became a set layer platform standard a couple years ago. Basically VC-1 became part of a group package of codecs. If you support one of them, you support all of them as a standard.
    02-22-15 09:10 AM
  8. lactose's Avatar
    To be fair, this wasn't done at the direction of Sony corporate, but rather by an independent company that Sony had contracted to make certain CDs.
    So Sony had no knowledge of the root kit ? While I certainly don't know for sure, I find this hard to believe.
    02-22-15 09:31 AM
  9. ADGrant's Avatar
    So Sony had no knowledge of the root kit ? While I certainly don't know for sure, I find this hard to believe.
    Agreed, though what Lenovo did is even worse I think. No wonder MacBooks are so popular. You just can't trust PC vendors.
    lactose likes this.
    02-22-15 09:39 AM
  10. peter0328's Avatar
    Impossible for HD-DVD to use better codecs. Both systems used the same exact specs and they were all from Microsoft. VC-1 is Microsoft and Blue-Ray supports it. VC-1 is now called SMPTE. It was changed when it became a set layer platform standard a couple years ago. Basically VC-1 became part of a group package of codecs. If you support one of them, you support all of them as a standard.
    No. Both supported VC1, but in the format war days, there were many Blu-rays authored using MPEG-2 which provided much worse PQ than VC1 HD DVD. HD DVD also had a scrub bar as STANDARD, whereas it needs to be programmed into each Blu-ray title.

    Posted via CB10
    02-22-15 11:56 AM
  11. early2bed's Avatar
    Separate from the whole Sony group, the idea is also to allow the electronics division greater autonomy to respond to industry trends.
    And one of the most important industry trends being the eventual sale of your independent hardware division to a Chinese company
    02-22-15 12:03 PM
  12. Cozz4ever's Avatar
    No. Both supported VC1, but in the format war days, there were many Blu-rays authored using MPEG-2 which provided much worse PQ than VC1 HD DVD. HD DVD also had a scrub bar as STANDARD, whereas it needs to be programmed into each Blu-ray title.

    Posted via CB10
    It doesn't matter what format they used. The fact remains that neither had a better format over the other. They both had the same exact format for high movie quality. One was not better than the other. It was said here, and I will correct it as many times as I need. What ever formats any production company chose (for lesser quality, as an example) is the different story. HD-DVD did not have better codecs than Blue-Ray.
    02-22-15 12:36 PM
  13. deadcowboy's Avatar
    Impossible for HD-DVD to use better codecs. Both systems used the same exact specs and they were all from Microsoft. VC-1 is Microsoft and Blue-Ray supports it. VC-1 is now called SMPTE. It was changed when it became a set layer platform standard a couple years ago. Basically VC-1 became part of a group package of codecs. If you support one of them, you support all of them as a standard.
    I don't know if you remember, but HD-DVDs were often better reviewed than their Blu-Ray counterparts. They were the same movie, same studio, but for whatever reason, Blu-Rays tended toward worse codecs like MPEG-4, while HD-DVD tended toward releases with better codecs like VC-1.

    This is what was happening at the time. Go look at old reviews. No, it doesn't make any sense, and I agree that codecs aren't platform agnostic, but this is what was happening in the earliest days. I owned both formats.

    Fact is: in the earliest days of the format war, HD-DVD releases were using better codecs than Blu-ray releases. And HD-DVD usually received better reviews.
    02-22-15 01:34 PM
  14. Cozz4ever's Avatar
    I don't know if you remember, but HD-DVDs were often better reviewed than their Blu-Ray counterparts. They were the same movie, same studio, but for whatever reason, Blu-Rays tended toward worse codecs like MPEG-4, while HD-DVD tended toward releases with better codecs like VC-1.

    This is what was happening at the time. Go look at old reviews. No, it doesn't make any sense, and I agree that codecs aren't platform agnostic, but this is what was happening in the earliest days. I owned both formats.

    Fact is: in the earliest days of the format war, HD-DVD releases were using better codecs than Blu-ray releases. And HD-DVD usually received better reviews.
    I honestly don't remember. And I was an early adapter of HD DVD. I've read both statements of some saying one was better than the other. And I've always found it was all BS especially when HD-DVD couldn't even do 1080P early on. Newer codecs doesn't mean better quality. MP3 is actually better than MP4 at higher bit rates. MP2 is better than MP3 at higher bit rates. But the opposite is true when we're talking about lower rates.

    The fact is, I don't know why productions chose one format over the other. Other than blu-ray didn't need the fancy compression as it had much more space to use on disk. In fact, I would make sure it would take as much space on the disk as possible to make it harder in pirating disks. I remember HD-DVD movies fitting on dual layer DVD disks. So much easier to pirate.

    But to say mpeg4 is better than mpeg2 is ill-advised. At lower rates, yes. At higher rates, no.

    Posted via CB10
    02-22-15 02:14 PM
  15. deadcowboy's Avatar
    I honestly don't remember. And I was an early adapter of HD DVD. I've read both statements of some saying one was better than the other. And I've always found it was all BS especially when HD-DVD couldn't even do 1080P early on. Newer codecs doesn't mean better quality. MP3 is actually better than MP4 at higher bit rates. MP2 is better than MP3 at higher bit rates. But the opposite is true when we're talking about lower rates.

    The fact is, I don't know why productions chose one format over the other. Other than blu-ray didn't need the fancy compression as it had much more space to use on disk. In fact, I would make sure it would take as much space on the disk as possible to make it harder in pirating disks. I remember HD-DVD movies fitting on dual layer DVD disks. So much easier to pirate.

    But to say mpeg4 is better than mpeg2 is ill-advised. At lower rates, yes. At higher rates, no.

    Posted via CB10
    Baraka is the de facto standard for high-def home video releases. It uses VC-1.

    Back in the day, blu Ray studios might have been regularly using something inferior to modern mpeg4, I can't remember. I was an avid home video collector and can dig out some of the earliest titles in both formats and read you the codecs.
    02-22-15 03:40 PM
  16. Cozz4ever's Avatar
    Baraka is the de facto standard for high-def home video releases. It uses VC-1.

    Back in the day, blu Ray studios might have been regularly using something inferior to modern mpeg4, I can't remember. I was an avid home video collector and can dig out some of the earliest titles in both formats and read you the codecs.
    No, I would use VC-1 over mpeg2/4 for transferring DVD to HD. Warner Bros used a lot of VC-1 for their conversions to hd. No one ever said vc-1 is a better format. Many is say mpeg4 is better for hd. Vc-1 is better for lower bit rates. Such as conversions. Disney and Fox go the avc/mpeg way on blu-ray I believe.

    Posted via CB10
    02-22-15 03:59 PM
  17. deadcowboy's Avatar
    No, I would use VC-1 over mpeg2/4 for transferring DVD to HD. Warner Bros used a lot of VC-1 for their conversions to hd. No one ever said vc-1 is a better format. Many is say mpeg4 is better for hd. Vc-1 is better for lower bit rates. Such as conversions. Disney and Fox go the avc/mpeg way on blu-ray I believe.

    Posted via CB10
    VC-1 is a dead codec that really shines at high bit rates without grain-smoothing. Warner was famous for ruining their early releases on vc-1 with smoothing.

    But it doesn't matter, vc-1 is not being developed any longer.

    All I remember is that blu-Ray releases in the earliest days were often inferior to their hd-dvd counterparts due to codec selection. Blu-Ray had the better technology, it was just being utilized poorly by the blu-Ray studios.

    Just don't compare modern standard codecs to old vc-1.

    But Baraka is proof enough that VC-1 was a killer codec.
    02-22-15 04:09 PM
  18. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    They'll still be around, just not peddling the things that don't make them money.
    Sure, I wasn't really implying or saying they were going to disappear completely or anything, you got that right. :-)

      "Telstra, Telstra an der Wand, wer ist der schoenste im ganzen Land...?" Answer: Passport... (Optus got it!) ;-)  
    02-22-15 05:33 PM
  19. lnichols's Avatar
    Sony was very arrogant about Blu-Ray despite Toshiba's HD DVD was cheaper to produce and a far better product in general.

    Sony has humbled quite a bit lately. Apple on the other hand is an out of control arrogant *****.

    Posted by Q5
    Sony won the Blu-ray fight. They weren't arrogant, they were smart by putting the player in the PS3 which put millions of Blu Ray devices in the field. Beta Max was better than VHS, but VHS won the fight.

    How is Apple out of control and arrogant? They seem to just be very successful and making devices people want to buy, and great at marketing.

    Posted via CB10
    02-22-15 06:22 PM
  20. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    Sony was very arrogant about Blu-Ray despite Toshiba's HD DVD was cheaper to produce and a far better product in general.

    Sony has humbled quite a bit lately. Apple on the other hand is an out of control arrogant *****.

    Posted by Q5
    Arrogant? Sony did a great job with Blu-Ray. Arrogance? Care to reflect on who lost the Betamax/VHS battle? Hint... It was Sony who championed Betamax.


    Penned via Tapatalk
    02-22-15 06:53 PM
  21. deadcowboy's Avatar
    Sony won the Blu-ray fight. They weren't arrogant, they were smart by putting the player in the PS3 which put millions of Blu Ray devices in the field. Beta Max was better than VHS, but VHS won the fight.

    How is Apple out of control and arrogant? They seem to just be very successful and making devices people want to buy, and great at marketing.

    Posted via CB10
    I'd argue that Apple is unfocused and producing bloated software. OS X isn't what it once was. iOS 8 is in need of a major revision (it's too old fashioned for a modern OS). The Apple watch looks like the stupidest thing ever. That UI and UX looks abysmal.

    They've forsaken their professional roots and clients. Final cut x? Killing aperture? Still no 10-bit display support?

    I've been using Apple products for awhile. They make killer laptops with really pleasant UX. The new Mac Pro is pretty brilliant for such a tiny desktop pc. But I'm moving to a self-built pc.
    02-23-15 04:21 AM
  22. lnichols's Avatar
    I'd argue that Apple is unfocused and producing bloated software. OS X isn't what it once was. iOS 8 is in need of a major revision (it's too old fashioned for a modern OS). The Apple watch looks like the stupidest thing ever. That UI and UX looks abysmal.

    They've forsaken their professional roots and clients. Final cut x? Killing aperture? Still no 10-bit display support?

    I've been using Apple products for awhile. They make killer laptops with really pleasant UX. The new Mac Pro is pretty brilliant for such a tiny desktop pc. But I'm moving to a self-built pc.
    Apple has become predominately a consumer company and Microsoft has a lock on much if the professional space. I use them at work for my engineering station because they work much cleaner and I like the BSD based back end, but the PC I have to use for email on the corporate LAN is Windows based junk. BlackBerry has forsaken the consumer side of the business but people on here think it is brilliant move.

    I'm not sold on the watch either (but will probably sell like crazy), and iOS isn't my thing, but with the sales numbers they are having, the consumer market is not agreeing with your assessment.

    I'd love to see Apple try to compete for the business desktop market, but I think they have decided that the tablet and smartphone space is where the growth is, and the PC market is in decline sales wise and they are unfortunately in that pattern that kills most companies of having to show growth in earnings and revenue to keep the stock price high. They have the money to do more than they are, but are not.

    Posted via CB10
    02-23-15 05:14 AM
  23. WES51's Avatar
    I'm not sold on the watch either (but will probably sell like crazy), and iOS isn't my thing, but with the sales numbers they are having, the consumer market is not agreeing with your assessment.
    I think one major selling point for the consumer is Apple's perceived smart image.
    02-23-15 10:57 AM
  24. TGR1's Avatar
    Agreed, though what Lenovo did is even worse I think. No wonder MacBooks are so popular. You just can't trust PC vendors.
    I find it hard to even comprehend what Lenovo was thinking. And they their initial blurting out that no security issues were found upon investigation. They need some massive PR intervention about now, I should imagine.
    02-23-15 01:22 PM
  25. TGR1's Avatar
    Sony won the Blu-ray fight. They weren't arrogant, they were smart by putting the player in the PS3 which put millions of Blu Ray devices in the field. Beta Max was better than VHS, but VHS won the fight.

    Posted via CB10
    And the cheapest BR player at the time. Very un-Sony but smart move. Got us to buy a PS.
    02-23-15 01:25 PM
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