1. morganplus8's Avatar
    From the time that RIM announced those crazy Q1 2013 results, a ton of stock was traded. In After Hours trading Thursday night, over 8 million shares traded around 7.50/shr. The next day, in New York, another 78 million traded at $ 7.45/ share and in Toronto, a further 8 million shares traded, all of them around $ 7.50/share! That's a grand total of 94,000,000 shares traded within a dime of each other.

    Who bought all of those shares and how were they ready to make such a big commitment so quickly ( $ 700,000,000)? I'm willing to bet the short position in RIM is still way up there, so who is working the stock? On Monday we will see many more traded at this level too, so soneone is getting the company for no cost today.

    There is about 120 million shares tied up with management and the gang, so out of 400,000,000 that are left to trade, we did 24% in one full day. It's like this was planned from the start. Announce bad news, buy up all of those shares and get the company cheap.

    Thoughts?
    07-01-12 02:37 PM
  2. Sucroid's Avatar
    From the time that RIM announced those crazy Q1 2013 results, a ton of stock was traded. In After Hours trading Thursday night, over 8 million shares traded around 7.50/shr. The next day, in New York, another 78 million traded at $ 7.45/ share and in Toronto, a further 8 million shares traded, all of them around $ 7.50/share! That's a grand total of 94,000,000 shares traded within a dime of each other.

    Who bought all of those shares and how were they ready to make such a big commitment so quickly ( $ 700,000,000)? I'm willing to bet the short position in RIM is still way up there, so who is working the stock? On Monday we will see many more traded at this level too, so soneone is getting the company for no cost today.

    There is about 120 million shares tied up with management and the gang, so out of 400,000,000 that are left to trade, we did 24% in one full day. It's like this was planned from the start. Announce bad news, buy up all of those shares and get the company cheap.

    Thoughts?
    Very weird. Since insider trading is illegal, some(one/group) must have a crystal ball.
    07-01-12 02:46 PM
  3. Pete6's Avatar
    Well it could have been compouters trading based on algorithms, values and timies but this does look like someone or many someones knew what to buy. I could guess at whom but I would almost surely be wrong.

    I tend to follow what Geroge Soros says rather than play with shares. I find I sleep better an night this way.

    I do not doubt what you say and that is a lot of shares changing hands/traded. I certainly looks like someone has taken a position.
    07-01-12 02:48 PM
  4. jafobabe's Avatar
    Is there a way to find out who purchased the shares?
    07-01-12 02:50 PM
  5. njblackberry's Avatar
    Only if they buy more than 5% of the company and have to legally declare it.
    07-01-12 02:56 PM
  6. anthogag's Avatar
    It is plausible. One of the large businesses rumored to be interested in RIM might be making a move (Dr. NoNo?) or RIM is indirectly attempting to take-back the business while they have this chance...a former J.P. Morgan guy (I think his name is Mr. Billin...French ) is now on RIM's board
    07-01-12 03:32 PM
  7. njblackberry's Avatar
    Maybe Prem Watsa is averaging down after his earlier purchases.

    From gurufocus.com in May, before the latest news..

    "Prem Watsa started to buy Research-In-Motion in the third quarter of 2010. He bought about 2 million shares when the stock was trading in the $50s. He then added to his position as the stock price collapsed to the $40s then $30s and $20s in 2011. The last time he bought was January of 2012. He doubled down on his position and bought another 14 million shares. We estimate that his cost per share is around $30. He owns 26.8 million shares as of January 2012, which is about 5% of the shares outstanding. At the current price of around $12 a share, Prem Watsa has had more than $400 million of paper loss with his position in Research-In-Motion."
    07-01-12 03:39 PM
  8. boldman4's Avatar
    Maybe Prem Watsa is averaging down after his earlier purchases.

    From gurufocus.com in May, before the latest news..

    "Prem Watsa started to buy Research-In-Motion in the third quarter of 2010. He bought about 2 million shares when the stock was trading in the $50s. He then added to his position as the stock price collapsed to the $40s then $30s and $20s in 2011. The last time he bought was January of 2012. He doubled down on his position and bought another 14 million shares. We estimate that his cost per share is around $30. He owns 26.8 million shares as of January 2012, which is about 5% of the shares outstanding. At the current price of around $12 a share, Prem Watsa has had more than $400 million of paper loss with his position in Research-In-Motion."
    Watsa has way too much money to spend trying to catch a falling knife.
    07-01-12 04:17 PM
  9. kfh227's Avatar
    Maybe Prem Watsa is averaging down after his earlier purchases.

    From gurufocus.com in May, before the latest news..

    "Prem Watsa started to buy Research-In-Motion in the third quarter of 2010. He bought about 2 million shares when the stock was trading in the $50s. He then added to his position as the stock price collapsed to the $40s then $30s and $20s in 2011. The last time he bought was January of 2012. He doubled down on his position and bought another 14 million shares. We estimate that his cost per share is around $30. He owns 26.8 million shares as of January 2012, which is about 5% of the shares outstanding. At the current price of around $12 a share, Prem Watsa has had more than $400 million of paper loss with his position in Research-In-Motion."
    Because of the number of shares he owns already, wouldn't he have to file immediately?

    Or can he hide it? That is, if he bought it on the TSE and he lives in Canada, does that mean he doesn't have to report immediately?
    07-01-12 04:37 PM
  10. morganplus8's Avatar
    Is there a way to find out who purchased the shares?
    It is possible to find out who bought them, unfortunately, I think several Funds will hold the stock or a Hedge Fund bought them all. Hedge Funds don't have to declare their ownership like the rest of the world. If you buy 10% of any company you have to by law, state your intentions, you can say you bought them for investment but if you proceed to buy 2% more, you have to declare once again, why you bought them. This is almost 25% of the company at the lowest pricing in 10 years!

    Hard to believe that 94 million shares were purchased within $ .10/shr and it doesn't mean a thing! I think it does as Heins and his buddies are about to receive 3.2 million RIM shares in less than 2 weeks time. Can't wait to see what they do next.
    07-01-12 04:41 PM
  11. kbz1960's Avatar
    Interesting.......
    07-01-12 04:59 PM
  12. andrew1953's Avatar
    probably a buyer from Samsung,Microsoft or even Nokia trying to get majority share/boardroom control on the cheap

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk
    07-01-12 07:00 PM
  13. kevinnugent's Avatar
    Bill Gates wants to get back into business and Ballmer won't let him back into M$.
    07-01-12 07:13 PM
  14. cleacy's Avatar
    It is possible to find out who bought them, unfortunately, I think several Funds will hold the stock or a Hedge Fund bought them all. Hedge Funds don't have to declare their ownership like the rest of the world. If you buy 10% of any company you have to by law, state your intentions, you can say you bought them for investment but if you proceed to buy 2% more, you have to declare once again, why you bought them. This is almost 25% of the company at the lowest pricing in 10 years!

    Hard to believe that 94 million shares were purchased within $ .10/shr and it doesn't mean a thing! I think it does as Heins and his buddies are about to receive 3.2 million RIM shares in less than 2 weeks time. Can't wait to see what they do next.
    You're forgetting the other side. For every share bought, someone sold it.

    "or a hedge fund bought them all" ... Your wording implies the entire trading volume was purchased by one entity. Is the reverse also true? One entity sold 24% of the company, and all the individual investors just sat out, ignored the bad news, and watched the price fall?
    07-01-12 08:04 PM
  15. Fuzzballz's Avatar
    "Prem Watsa started to buy Research-In-Motion in the third quarter of 2010. He bought about 2 million shares when the stock was trading in the $50s. He then added to his position as the stock price collapsed to the $40s then $30s and $20s in 2011. The last time he bought was January of 2012. He doubled down on his position and bought another 14 million shares. We estimate that his cost per share is around $30. He owns 26.8 million shares as of January 2012, which is about 5% of the shares outstanding. At the current price of around $12 a share, Prem Watsa has had more than $400 million of paper loss with his position in Research-In-Motion."
    That's called "going all-in." Either the stock rights itself and the guy is a hero, or it fails, investors lose $billions, and he gets his golden parachute and retires to the Hamptons.

    And people wonder why Wall St is broken.
    app_Developer likes this.
    07-02-12 02:52 AM
  16. abwan11's Avatar
    The 3 most honest and fair games in the world are the stock market, horse racing and boxing. The market is completely manipulated. If the powers that be want rim to survive it will and they are prepping for that. If the opposite is true then thats what will happen.
    It sucks for the bewildered heard because inevitably it is a gamble and has nothing to do with any metric or reasoning that would otherwise prevail.
    07-02-12 09:51 AM
  17. njblackberry's Avatar
    It's all the media's fault.
    And George Bush.
    gryphon13 likes this.
    07-02-12 10:00 AM
  18. CairnsRock's Avatar
    It could be the short sellers buying to cover their sales and take their profit.
    07-02-12 01:37 PM
  19. morganplus8's Avatar
    From the time that RIM announced those crazy Q1 2013 results, a ton of stock was traded. In After Hours trading Thursday night, over 8 million shares traded around 7.50/shr. The next day, in New York, another 78 million traded at $ 7.45/ share and in Toronto, a further 8 million shares traded, all of them around $ 7.50/share! That's a grand total of 94,000,000 shares traded within a dime of each other.

    Who bought all of those shares and how were they ready to make such a big commitment so quickly ( $ 700,000,000)? I'm willing to bet the short position in RIM is still way up there, so who is working the stock? On Monday we will see many more traded at this level too, so soneone is getting the company for no cost today.

    There is about 120 million shares tied up with management and the gang, so out of 400,000,000 that are left to trade, we did 24% in one full day. It's like this was planned from the start. Announce bad news, buy up all of those shares and get the company cheap.

    Thoughts?
    Just a update, we have now traded 250 million shares of RIM stock prior to the AGM tomorrow (that's 60% of all of the available float), again, who bought all of those shares? There are 73 million shares short, I'm sure most of them are still short, so who is buying $ 2 billion bucks worth of RIM stock?

    We know from Heins today that BB 10 was only delayed by two months and it is said to be launched in January of 2013. We know that cash will remain at $ 2 billion at the end of Sept. so there is huge value in RIM stock at launch time. After the AGM, all the directors will have their titles set, their stock options will be priced in and everything is in place to begin to hear good news from RIM.

    I still expect to hear of a major partnership shortly, as soon as AGM is done they will be able to vote on such a partnership and someone is loading up on the stock in advance of this deal. We'll see!
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    07-09-12 12:53 PM
  20. njblackberry's Avatar
    If someone is buying in advance of a "partnership" and they have inside information, that's illegal. Even in Canada (THAT'S A JOKE)... You are also assuming that each share was only bought once. Not that a share was bought and sold many times. So the 60% number doesn't work.

    We'll see what happens. The mutual and stock funds (paging Mr. Watsa, please report your losses) have to report for their 2nd quarter ending 30 June. Will be interesting to see who the big owners are (outside of the formerly dynamic duo of Mike and Jim)...
    07-09-12 12:58 PM
  21. OMGitworks's Avatar
    Watsa has way too much money to spend trying to catch a falling knife.
    Especially after he nearly cut off all his fingers trying to catch it twice before. I really wonder what, if anything he will do at the annual meeting. He's lost a lot of money here.
    07-09-12 02:55 PM
  22. OMGitworks's Avatar
    Just a update, we have now traded 250 million shares of RIM stock prior to the AGM tomorrow (that's 60% of all of the available float), again, who bought all of those shares? There are 73 million shares short, I'm sure most of them are still short, so who is buying $ 2 billion bucks worth of RIM stock?

    We know from Heins today that BB 10 was only delayed by two months and it is said to be launched in January of 2013. We know that cash will remain at $ 2 billion at the end of Sept. so there is huge value in RIM stock at launch time. After the AGM, all the directors will have their titles set, their stock options will be priced in and everything is in place to begin to hear good news from RIM.

    I still expect to hear of a major partnership shortly, as soon as AGM is done they will be able to vote on such a partnership and someone is loading up on the stock in advance of this deal. We'll see!
    How much is short covering. If I was short I'd be very afraid of the dead cat bounce and lock in the 300% I've already made shorting it.
    07-09-12 02:57 PM
  23. morganplus8's Avatar
    If someone is buying in advance of a "partnership" and they have inside information, that's illegal. Even in Canada (THAT'S A JOKE)... You are also assuming that each share was only bought once. Not that a share was bought and sold many times. So the 60% number doesn't work.

    We'll see what happens. The mutual and stock funds (paging Mr. Watsa, please report your losses) have to report for their 2nd quarter ending 30 June. Will be interesting to see who the big owners are (outside of the formerly dynamic duo of Mike and Jim)...
    There's a huge difference between "assuming anything" and reality. In the real world no one cares what laws exist, Hedge Funds are not governed by the same laws as anybody else. They don't have to report their holdings, they don't have to report their intentions, nothing. You are making a huge mistake if you think there isn't a way around weak laws in securities trading!! Hedge Funds are considered to be private enterprise holdings and not subject to securities laws in the same way as everyone else. That's why naked short selling is going on in such a big way, they destroy companies and there is nothing that can stop them.

    Your second point was that they are flipping the stock for profit but again, it doesn't hold water because of the tight trading range. Day trading the stock numerous times won't get you to 250 million shares within that time frame. The next point is the 94 million share purchase within 24 hours of earnings. You have to look at the data and not just brush it off.

    You are obviously going to be one of the ones who is the most surprised at the out come. GL
    Last edited by morganplus8; 07-09-12 at 04:02 PM.
    07-09-12 03:08 PM
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