05-31-14 09:22 PM
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  1. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    We'll agree to disagree then. This is also valuable info to consider - App Annie App Store Data | Google Play Top Charts Indonesia - Overall - May 21, 2014 <-- Top Android apps downloaded in Indonesia.
    Almost all of the top apps either run, or have a native BB10 equivalent. I'm not sure what your point is.
    05-21-14 06:39 PM
  2. crazigee's Avatar
    Almost all of the top apps either run, or have a native BB10 equivalent. I'm not sure what your point is.
    I actually do see what he's saying. When I installed 10.2.1 some of the first apps I installed from Snap were the Olympics apps. None of them worked perfectly. Most worked decently enough, but with lots of errors.

    If I was a typical consumer who had bought the phone with the understanding that Android apps worked, then I would have returned the phone.

    I'm not in that group, but I think most consumers are.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    BB_Bmore and JeepBB like this.
    05-21-14 07:26 PM
  3. mrboba's Avatar
    Let's also remember that android apps don't run headless or do notifications very well. IF someone purchases a bb10 device for the android app compatibility, they will compare the experience to actual android phones. They will notice the lack of Google play services. They will notice notifications not coming through (because of lack of headless). They will notice sluggishness (possibly). And finally they'll look at where they get the android apps from, which will require either a side loaded snap or the amazon app store. What happens to many apps that were paid for? Pay for them again?

    Until all these issues are addressed, blackberry in my opinion should not be touting the android runtime. People are generally lazy and stupid. Don't count on the average customer to do any extra steps, not even one.



    Posted via CB10
    amjass12 likes this.
    05-21-14 08:38 PM
  4. ubizmo's Avatar
    Clean Master seems to run headless and does notifications. I wonder why others can't.

    Sent from my Q10 using Tapatalk
    05-21-14 08:44 PM
  5. crazigee's Avatar
    Let's also remember that android apps don't run headless or do notifications very well. IF someone purchases a bb10 device for the android app compatibility, they will compare the experience to actual android phones. They will notice the lack of Google play services. They will notice notifications not coming through (because of lack of headless). They will notice sluggishness (possibly). And finally they'll look at where they get the android apps from, which will require either a side loaded snap or the amazon app store. What happens to many apps that were paid for? Pay for them again?

    Until all these issues are addressed, blackberry in my opinion should not be touting the android runtime. People are generally lazy and stupid. Don't count on the average customer to do any extra steps, not even one.



    Posted via CB10
    Exactly.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    05-21-14 08:44 PM
  6. bmantz65's Avatar
    I don't see a problem with BlackBerry promoting this. Let's face it, native BB10 versions of top apps like Instagram and Netflix are probably never coming. It is pointless to wait around for them at this point. In that case, you might as well load the Android versions. Proper user education is vital though. I think they should try this in the North American consumer market and see how it goes. What do they have to lose?

    Posted via CB10
    05-21-14 08:50 PM
  7. crazigee's Avatar
    I don't see a problem with BlackBerry promoting this. Let's face it, native BB10 versions of top apps like Instagram and Netflix are probably never coming. It is pointless to wait around for them at this point. In that case, you might as well load the Android versions. Proper user education is vital though. I think they should try this in the North American consumer market and see how it goes. What do they have to lose?

    Posted via CB10
    I see them losing a lot if they promote something that doesn't work flawlessly. Credibility is huge.

    BlackBerry can't afford more bad publicity and word of mouth. If they promote this feature and reviewers find it doesn't work as advertised then BlackBerry is sunk.
    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    JeepBB likes this.
    05-21-14 08:52 PM
  8. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    I see them losing a lot if they promote something that doesn't work flawlessly. Credibility is huge.

    BlackBerry can't afford more bad publicity and word of mouth. If they promote this feature and reviewers find it doesn't work as advertised then BlackBerry is sunk.
    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    Maybe they are using Indonesia, Dubai, etc as test beds for promoting the android compatibility. If it is a success they may try it in NA. And for all we know maybe they have some more tweaks planned for the Android player in 10.3 that will allow more apps to work better/flawlessly.

    In terms of Android apps not running headless or providing notifications, I thought this was something BB could control/turn on in the Android runtime, but they resisted as they still want to encourage native development?
    05-21-14 09:05 PM
  9. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Again, you guys are thinking in terms of the Android phones as they're available in North America. I'm telling you, the Z3 runs a more current version of Android than the off-brand phones available in Asia, and has better specs than most.

    If there's an Android app you absolutely HAVE to have, that's likely because you're already ON Android. OTOH, if you're on an old legacy BlackBerry, and want to move to something more modern, which presents the more appealing alternative: an Android phone? Or a new BlackBerry that can still run almost all of the Android catalog?

    ETA: By the way, have you considered that the reason the Z3 launched in Indonesia is because it's MORE COMPETITIVE in that market than it would be in North America?
    Omnitech likes this.
    05-21-14 09:57 PM
  10. Raestloz's Avatar
    BB need to sell phones. Simple as that. Without doing so nothing is possible. If promoting them as offering Android apps helps them sell the devices, then they can deal with the issue of native apps later. There are a number of different issues here, but selling handsets is the absolute priority.
    There is a difference between marketing as Android capable and marketing as an Android device. Obtaining Google Play Services as a company means making BlackBerry 10 Android's slave: it'd no longer be a BlackBerry 10 with Android runtime, it'd be Android with BlackBerry 10 runtime, and that's stipulated by Google

    Z10 STL100-1/10.2.1.2141
    Omnitech likes this.
    05-21-14 10:09 PM
  11. Banco's Avatar
    There is a difference between marketing as Android capable and marketing as an Android device. Obtaining Google Play Services as a company means making BlackBerry 10 Android's slave: it'd no longer be a BlackBerry 10 with Android runtime, it'd be Android with BlackBerry 10 runtime, and that's stipulated by Google

    Z10 STL100-1/10.2.1.2141
    I think people are looking too deeply at this, and going over the kind of ground that simply doesn't occur to the vast, vast majority of phone purchasers. All these observations about the limitations are true, but I very, very much doubt most people know or care about it. Take a step back and consider how people use their phones. It simply isn't the way people on here do - they don't pay any attention whatsoever to detailed analysis of what the phone offers, they have never heard of headless apps, they've never heard of Google Services or know what it means. People use maybe 1% of the capability of whatever phone they go for; they simply aren't like most people on here who deeply analyse what's available or how it operates. This is why people are blinded by specs in the first place, and why they have gone for iPhones irrespective of what's out there.

    For Blackberry phones, the perception is that they're old, slow, aren't touchscreen and don't have any apps. All the objectons people are listing here simply won't appear on the radar of most users. They've never heard of BB10, most of them don't actually know what Android even means to a fair extent, and they certainly don't care about there being an Android runtime (what the hell is a runtime etc?). The problem is that equally they won't especially know how to load up Amazon or 1Mobile - it needs to be done for them if possible. Saying "look, lots of apps" is a much improved position, irrespective of the issues with it.

    That's why I say people aren't seeing the wood for the trees. You're getting far too bogged down in the kind of detail that only a tiny, tiny fraction of people pay even the slightest attention to. "oh that's a nice phone, are there lots of apps?", "yes, millions". It's as simple as that - and that massively improves BB's sales proposition. All the other stuff can be handled later.
    Bbnivende and Omnitech like this.
    05-22-14 05:52 AM
  12. Septembersrain's Avatar
    I don't see anything wrong with this. Coming from the Android community I've learned one major thing. It's open sourced. You'll find it on cheap knock off iPhone clones to Nexus lines. It's what I've always loved about it, the fact that it can be for everyone.

    So for me, having it on a BlackBerry is simply amazing. It gives me the ability to enjoy two of my most beloved OS's in one device.

    As long as BlackBerry stays the master at multitasking, I'll be more than happy to use their products!

    Sent from a larger than life device using Tapatalk!
    05-22-14 06:16 AM
  13. crazigee's Avatar
    There is a difference between marketing as Android capable and marketing as an Android device. Obtaining Google Play Services as a company means making BlackBerry 10 Android's slave: it'd no longer be a BlackBerry 10 with Android runtime, it'd be Android with BlackBerry 10 runtime, and that's stipulated by Google

    Z10 STL100-1/10.2.1.2141
    There is a difference. The question is whether the average consumer will recognize that difference. I'm not so sure they will.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    05-22-14 09:17 AM
  14. BrentRoss's Avatar
    I don't see anything wrong with this. Coming from the Android community I've learned one major thing. It's open sourced. You'll find it on cheap knock off iPhone clones to Nexus lines. It's what I've always loved about it, the fact that it can be for everyone.

    So for me, having it on a BlackBerry is simply amazing. It gives me the ability to enjoy two of my most beloved OS's in one device.

    As long as BlackBerry stays the master at multitasking, I'll be more than happy to use their products!

    Sent from a larger than life device using Tapatalk!
    EXACTLY!! +1

    Posted via CB10
    05-22-14 09:27 AM
  15. anon1727506's Avatar
    Again, you guys are thinking in terms of the Android phones as they're available in North America. I'm telling you, the Z3 runs a more current version of Android than the off-brand phones available in Asia, and has better specs than most.

    If there's an Android app you absolutely HAVE to have, that's likely because you're already ON Android. OTOH, if you're on an old legacy BlackBerry, and want to move to something more modern, which presents the more appealing alternative: an Android phone? Or a new BlackBerry that can still run almost all of the Android catalog?

    ETA: By the way, have you considered that the reason the Z3 launched in Indonesia is because it's MORE COMPETITIVE in that market than it would be in North America?
    You are making a lot of assumptions....

    Go look at some of the Cellphone providers sites for Indonesia.... Motorola Moto E, Samsung Galaxy Ace Style are both cheaper and are running Kit-Kat - several dozen other devices running 4.2 and are MUCH cheaper with better specs. There are also a number of devices running Firefox OS 1.3.... not sure what that app market is like. Also a good portion of the population there HAS an Android device already, along with their BlackBerry - it's a prepaid market where owning multiple phones and swapping out SIM cards is pretty common (thus most of those cheap Androids have dual SIMS).

    So why is BlackBerry so popular there.... BIS. What does the Z3 not have.... BIS. What does BB10 offer people whose main concern is keeping their minutes and data cost down... nothing. The Z3 is on the same playing field as most of those Android devices.... but take away the Dual SIM feature and the extra cost and BlackBerry is at a disadvantage. Only the popularity of BBM is going to help the Z3, and that is only if BBMx experience remains so bad.

    What Ba1ze is saying is that "almost" is not good enough! If McDonald's came out and said, "almost" none of our hamburgers have horse meat in them... would you find that acceptable? There is no doubt that many will be happy getting what they can from the BlackBerry ecosystem for now... but that isn't a long term strategy that promotes growth.


    And the Z3 is not more competitive... that is just a good size market that still has a larger user base. It make for a good "test" to see if the "brand" is worth anything. If it's just about the competitiveness of the device, they have already lost.
    JeepBB likes this.
    05-22-14 10:32 AM
  16. crazigee's Avatar
    You are making a lot of assumptions....

    Go look at some of the Cellphone providers sites for Indonesia.... Motorola Moto E, Samsung Galaxy Ace Style are both cheaper and are running Kit-Kat - several dozen other devices running 4.2 and are MUCH cheaper with better specs. There are also a number of devices running Firefox OS 1.3.... not sure what that app market is like. Also a good portion of the population there HAS an Android device already, along with their BlackBerry - it's a prepaid market where owning multiple phones and swapping out SIM cards is pretty common (thus most of those cheap Androids have dual SIMS).

    So why is BlackBerry so popular there.... BIS. What does the Z3 not have.... BIS. What does BB10 offer people whose main concern is keeping their minutes and data cost down... nothing. The Z3 is on the same playing field as most of those Android devices.... but take away the Dual SIM feature and the extra cost and BlackBerry is at a disadvantage. Only the popularity of BBM is going to help the Z3, and that is only if BBMx experience remains so bad.

    What Ba1ze is saying is that "almost" is not good enough! If McDonald's came out and said, "almost" none of our hamburgers have horse meat in them... would you find that acceptable? There is no doubt that many will be happy getting what they can from the BlackBerry ecosystem for now... but that isn't a long term strategy that promotes growth.


    And the Z3 is not more competitive... that is just a good size market that still has a larger user base. It make for a good "test" to see if the "brand" is worth anything. If it's just about the competitiveness of the device, they have already lost.
    Have to agree with both you and Bl1ze. Almost isn't good enough if you are going to advertise around that feature.



    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    kbz1960 likes this.
    05-22-14 11:12 AM
  17. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Again, you guys are thinking in terms of the Android phones as they're available in North America. I'm telling you, the Z3 runs a more current version of Android than the off-brand phones available in Asia, and has better specs than most.
    You're mistaken. About a year ago, Google started enforcing a rule that any device released that was Google-certified had to be using the latest version of Android as of 6 months prior. That means any device released today has to have at LEAST 4.3 on it, and it won't be long before 4.4 is the requirement. And, yes, other than some phones meant for the Chinese (not Taiwan) or North Korean markets (who block access to most Google services), virtually all of those phones, even the off-brand ones, are Google certified.

    Why? Because manufacturers found that non-certified phones couldn't be made "cheaper enough" to compete with Google-certified phones - people returned them and paid a little more for a certified phone so they could have easy access to apps, services, and media.

    What you are implying was absolutely true 2 years ago, but things have changed in a big was since Android 4 was released, and with 4.2, Google really tightened the rules to make sure customers were getting the best experience.
    JeepBB likes this.
    05-22-14 01:38 PM
  18. qwerty4ever's Avatar
    People always complain that BlackBerrys got no apps... well this is the answer to their complaints...

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141
    Native BlackBerry OS 10 applications, Webworks and mobile-friendly websites are needed, not Google Android applications. Maybe BlackBerry could team-up with community colleges in Canada, to start, to provide training focused on BlackBerry OS 10 applications.

    Posted via CB10 on BlackBerry Q5
    JeepBB likes this.
    05-23-14 05:43 AM
  19. lawguyman's Avatar
    Native BlackBerry OS 10 applications, Webworks and mobile-friendly websites are needed, not Google Android applications. Maybe BlackBerry could team-up with community colleges in Canada, to start, to provide training focused on BlackBerry OS 10 applications.

    Posted via CB10 on BlackBerry Q5
    People want big Apps from big companies and studios. They don't want apps made by students in community colleges.

    BlackBerry tried and failed to develop it's own ecosystem. If BlackBerry can sell phones in volume it may try to do this again. Until then, this is a necessary step.

    Posted via CB10
    05-23-14 06:01 AM
  20. jtv1's Avatar
    We had before the OS10: Barclays Mobile, Pinget, Lloyds Mobile, Kaspersky Internet Security Mobile.

    How did we lose these for the trial and error apps we're getting now, though I think I been told why, it just won't sink in.

    jtvberry
    05-23-14 11:49 AM
  21. BigBuffBerry's Avatar
    Here is my situation right now. Trying to get a decent golf app. I have tried golf logix and Golfshot gps. Both install fine but I can't actually log into the golf logix app and the Golfshot app demo worked awesome but the trial expired to I can't get a subscription to the app.

    It is very frustrating. So being "android ready" means nothing if you love golf.

    I have droidgolf from BlackBerry App World but it's not very good.

    As a side note, not being able to connect my clash of clans account is also very frustrating.

    So I don't really think it is a great idea to advertise being android ready if the top apps don't work.

    Posted via CB10
    05-23-14 07:52 PM
  22. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I am surprised that so many CrackBerry posters seem to not have at least one android device in their house. You can extract your Apk directly from Google Play and mail it to yourself. Not saying that this is officially acceptable but Google has the extraction app in their store.
    05-23-14 08:12 PM
  23. qbnkelt's Avatar
    People always complain that BlackBerrys got no apps... well this is the answer to their complaints...

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141
    A workaround to get a competitor's apps still means that BlackBerry still hasn't got the apps consumers are used to seeing on iPhones and Android devices. They're still not in BBW. So no, this is not an answer for me.


    Posted from my awesome Q10 via CB10.
    DINGSTER1 likes this.
    05-23-14 08:15 PM
  24. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Almost all of the top apps either run, or have a native BB10 equivalent. I'm not sure what your point is.

    This post is most surprising to me as almost none of the apps that I have or want to have are available in BBW.
    05-23-14 08:19 PM
  25. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    This post is most surprising to me as almost none of the apps that I have or want to have are available in BBW.
    Have you tried 1mobile?

    Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30 2B6927F7
    05-23-14 10:42 PM
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