05-31-14 09:22 PM
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  1. Banco's Avatar
    How did I contradict myself? It's been posted in reviews and comments around the net of people complaining of having to workaround to install Android. The same people who don't care don't like to put in any effort.

    The ones that put up with it are BlackBerry users willing to go through it to use an app. To the general masses they will expect it to run out of the box. And no, it shouldn't be pre-installed.
    The runtime was for porting, not officially running Android apps.

    Again, people won't buy BlackBerry simply to run Android. It just isn't practical. So what are you expecting to gain? Oh right, device sales to pissed off customers expecting an Android experience but will now go back to Samsung, etc. Further hurting BlackBerry.

    emPowered by ?
    Most of the reviews complaining about it were written before the last OS update which made it so much easier. Sideloading via Chrome always was a non-starter to the general public, that's not where we are now. You are contradicting yourself by trying to say apps aren't important and then implying they're critical.

    It's not about people people deliberately buying BB to run Android, it's about allowing people to have lots of apps - which is what they want, whether or not they use them. They couldn't care less what the operating system is called, they couldn't care less what people on here go on about, they just want to - as you put it yourself, run it out of the box. And yet you then say they shouldn't have it pre-installed? Another complete contradiction.

    You seem to be under the impression that Blackberry means something in its own right to the public. It doesn't. Nor does Android for that matter. Only Apple has that particular cachet to a sizeable market. You've already got a BB, you don't matter in this regard. They want more customers. Do you actually want complete irrelevance?
    05-21-14 09:27 AM
  2. Banco's Avatar
    An efficient promoting of the feature would be: "Go to http://<random_site> to download Android apps". Discussing a featre and not instructing AVERAGE users how to use it is meaningless.
    Absolutely concur.
    05-21-14 09:29 AM
  3. celticmagick's Avatar
    Most of the reviews complaining about it were written before the last OS update which made it so much easier. Sideloading via Chrome always was a non-starter to the general public, that's not where we are now. You are contradicting yourself by trying to say apps aren't important and then implying they're critical.

    It's not about people people deliberately buying BB to run Android, it's about allowing people to have lots of apps - which is what they want, whether or not they use them. They couldn't care less what the operating system is called, they couldn't care less what people on here go on about, they just want to - as you put it yourself, run it out of the box. And yet you then say they shouldn't have it pre-installed? Another complete contradiction.

    You seem to be under the impression that Blackberry means something in its own right to the public. It doesn't. Nor does Android for that matter. Only Apple has that particular cachet to a sizeable market. You've already got a BB, you don't matter in this regard. They want more customers. Do you actually want complete irrelevance?
    My point is to help BlackBerry, not hurt them. Running Android apps discourages development. Why develop for BlackBerry when they use Android? So again, why buy a BlackBerry? We clearly have two different visions to the same summit.

    You want to ride and copy Android. I want BlackBerry to innovate.

    Let the mindless drones that want to play stay on Android. Honestly, the fact that people don't care is a sad state. I'm done. Let's move along.

    emPowered by ?
    05-21-14 09:34 AM
  4. Banco's Avatar
    My point is to help BlackBerry, not hurt them. Running Android apps discourages development. Why develop for BlackBerry when they use Android? So again, why buy a BlackBerry? We clearly have two different visions to the same summit.

    You want to ride and copy Android. I want BlackBerry to innovate.

    Let the mindless drones that want to play stay on Android. Honestly, the fact that people don't care is a sad state. I'm done. Let's move along.

    emPowered by ?
    The point is that without sales there is no Blackberry. It is beyond critical now. Simply saying "oh we need native apps" is whistling in the wind - it's not happening because there aren't enough handset sales. It's a fact. The Kindle Fire rode off Android, and guess what, they've sold loads of them. The fundamental point is that without sales, there won't be a Blackberry to innovate. Talking about "mindless droves" using Android is burying your head in the ground and hoping the nasty man goes away. And saying that because people don't agree with your own specific viewpoint is because they don't care - well that's pathetic.
    BB_Bmore and Omnitech like this.
    05-21-14 09:39 AM
  5. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Misleading people in even the smallest way is NOT what BlackBerry needs. They've done enough of that in the past. If they're going to continue to work on the Android runtime then fine but in its currently available state it's not something that should be blasted to the masses. You can't just say something is Android compatible and then leave people to figure it out.

    They need to have a solution for people to actually make use of. Download this, sideload that, enable this.. is NOT a solution. There needs to be a centralized spot for vetted, working apps in order for this to be successful. Every single day I get asked how to install Android apps on BlackBerry 10 and it should not be that way. That in itself is a problem. If people dunno how to do it then it's just as if it doesn't exist.

    I'm not against installing Android apps. I'm not against BlackBerry working on it. I think it's a nice option and one that, eventually, will be great. However, I am against BlackBerry pushing yet another half arsed project onto people with no clear and concise path and just hoping it works. We shouldn't have to be their beta testers for this. This should be something they build, work out and ultimately deliver in a working state.

    As it is now, it's delivering nothing but false hope. 'I downloaded <insert app name> how come it doesn't work? I thought this was Android compatible?' A few of those instances and you've already upset people who bought your product leaving them feeling duped.
    Saying that most Android apps will run on BB10 is not misleading at all. It's the truth. I'll agree that they need to be careful about how they make the claim, sure. It's an expectation that they need to manage. I know in my own experience I'm finding very few apps that DON'T work.

    The most sensitive issue is going to be the Google apps themselves, though even those are what I'd call "mostly" functional. Possibly, the new account support in 10.3 will improve on even that.
    Banco likes this.
    05-21-14 09:47 AM
  6. celticmagick's Avatar
    And saying that because people don't agree with your own specific viewpoint is because they don't care - well that's pathetic.
    I never said that. You and the other guy said that people don't care about this and that they just want apps. That's what I was referring to. That mindset is pathetic.

    emPowered by ?
    05-21-14 09:48 AM
  7. Banco's Avatar
    I never said that. You and the other guy said that people don't care about this and that they just want apps. That's what I was referring to. That mindset is pathetic.

    emPowered by ?
    Ah ok - noted and understood. My apologies.
    05-21-14 09:51 AM
  8. anon1727506's Avatar
    Saying that most Android apps will run on BB10 is not misleading at all. It's the truth. I'll agree that they need to be careful about how they make the claim, sure. It's an expectation that they need to manage. I know in my own experience I'm finding very few apps that DON'T work.

    The most sensitive issue is going to be the Google apps themselves, though even those are what I'd call "mostly" functional. Possibly, the new account support in 10.3 will improve on even that.
    It's an expectation that will do nothing but drive them further from the consumers and even business markets.

    I've found plenty of Android Apps that DO NOT WORK! For some just one is enough, and they would return a device, causing more "stress" between BlackBerry and the Carriers.

    Everything I've read about Google, points to them trying to "protect" their ecosystem. They are recommending developers to validate their apps to protect against piracy (but free apps can also use it) by using Google Services - so in two or three years most newer and regularly updated Android Apps may very well not work without validation via Google Services. And you are only going to get Google Services working (and stay working) on the Runtime, if GOOGLE says you can - which right now goes against the Android Alliances rules. So it's sounding like at best this will be a short lived option.

    Either way I agree with Bla1ze... there are too many "long shots" going on. If BBMx is going to save the day.... they need to get it out of Beta and promote it! If Android Apps are going to be the thing to turn sales around... they need to make it official and 100%. If BES12 is what everyone is waiting on.... why make them wait?
    kbz1960 and JeepBB like this.
    05-21-14 10:44 AM
  9. blackburberry's Avatar
    I'm thinking throughout this discussion it would be nice if a Crackberry Team Member could interview John Chen and get clarification on BlackBerry's strategy [with respect to Android] with the Z3 marketing in Indonesia and Dubai.
    05-21-14 10:47 AM
  10. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    Either way I agree with Bla1ze... there are too many "long shots" going on. If BBMx is going to save the day.... they need to get it out of Beta and promote it! If Android Apps are going to be the thing to turn sales around... they need to make it official and 100%. If BES12 is what everyone is waiting on.... why make them wait?
    I don't see how Android apps will save Blackberry. Even assuming that BB10 was fully compatible with all Android apps, which it isn't, so what? Big deal. Android app compatibility isn't a sought after feature. Android is 100% free! Even the cheapest Chinese/Indian OEM devices are Android app compatible. All this does is make the Z3 another low-end Android device.



    And if pitching a low-end pseudo-Android device was all it took to turn Blackberry around, Blackberry should just scrap BB10 now. Releasing an actual Android device requires much less R&D than a BB10 device and you get a full Android app compatible device. All the features of BB10 (Hub, keyboard, gestures, etc.) could easily be skinned onto Android and Blackberry would no longer have to worry about supporting drivers, a runtime, all the OS intricacies, etc.

    A popular, successful Android runtime is the last nail in the coffin of Blackberry ever making money off a Blackberry ecosystem and most of the criticisms of Android on this forum are invalid, anyway. Android is a decently engineered OS. There is 0 reason to support BB10 OS if the success of BB10 ultimately hinges on Android.

    For this reason, I think the runtime is a bad idea. It seems to be Blackberry's costly, roundabout way to have an Android device when everyone else is getting Android for for free. It makes no sense from a business standpoint to support both BB10 and Android and, if BB10 actually cannot support itself without Android app compatibility, it is time to cut your losses and move on.
    TGR1 and JeepBB like this.
    05-21-14 11:21 AM
  11. Glenn Biddle's Avatar
    The way I see it's quite simple, if the need for security is important to you then don't download android apps into your phone. But don't rain on every one else's parade BlackBerry world can always market there eco system as the secure one. If there is enough demand for the apps and people who want them to be secure then the app developers will build those apps and sell them in BlackBerry world. If the only reason you are buying a phone is to run android apps then buy an android phone.

    Posted via CB10
    05-21-14 11:37 AM
  12. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    Agreed.

    BB has overcome their previous reticence and is now putting the ability to run Android Apps front and centre... And not just in Indonesia.

    A major change in direction IMO.

    I still wonder if BB will be brave enough to bring the same marketing to Western markets... 😉


    JBB
    I don't think they will use this in Western Markets. The biggest growth opportunity is in emerging markets where their brand still has some cache. This is where promoting the android compatibility can help them move more devices.
    05-21-14 12:55 PM
  13. heading4tomorrow's Avatar
    Keep Google out of Blackberry!
    Android Apps =/= Google.
    Omnitech likes this.
    05-21-14 01:28 PM
  14. FSeverino's Avatar
    This is the official English page of that Android Instructions page:
    http://id.blackberry.com/smartphones...tructions.html

    Since Z3 is only available in Indonesia for now, you can't access that page from the native English sites (such as us.blackberry.com), the Z3 entry is not there.

    As you can see, they don't mention snap in the English version. Don't know why, but interesting nevertheless.

    They also mention this:
    Android App Compatible*
    Some of your favorite Android apps can now be enjoyed on your BlackBerry Z3, Jakarta Edition.

    *Android apps can be downloaded directly from third party Android app stores, which can be accessed on the Internet ? allowing you to enjoy some of the world?s most popular titles. However, not all Android apps are supported and compatibility may vary by smartphone and/or source.

    Android is a trademark of Google Inc. which does not sponsor, authorize or endorse this ad.

    http://id.blackberry.com/smartphones...ures/apps.html

    I don't know whether they openly promote that page or not tho. Google might do something about Snap if it threatens them

    Z10 STL100-1/10.2.1.2141
    I'm guessing they don't mention SNAP because it isn't an official store. They also probably don't want to say that you need to side load an app to get android apps, so it is much easier to say to install the third party. Apk right from the browser

    Posted via CB10
    05-21-14 01:38 PM
  15. xxjavaxx2001's Avatar
    Every store in Dubai I go to now is promoting the android compatibility. Heck when I went to the the Blackberry Training for consumers in the Blackberry Store in Dubai.. the trainer was even mentioning snap,mobile1,aptoide.

    Posted via CB10
    05-21-14 01:40 PM
  16. xxjavaxx2001's Avatar
    I'm guessing they don't mention SNAP because it isn't an official store. They also probably don't want to say that you need to side load an app to get android apps, so it is much easier to say to install the third party. Apk right from the browser

    Posted via CB10
    If you read the photo I posted.. theres a question there that says.. Is Blackberry allowed or legal to use Android apps. And they answered yes because its open. Ithink its the 2nd question. Wait let me post the pic again.

    So is BB10 ready for Android to be an official feature?-img_20140521_172738.jpg

    Posted via CB10
    05-21-14 01:42 PM
  17. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    If you read the photo I posted.. theres a question there that says.. Is Blackberry allowed or legal to use Android apps. And they answered yes because its open. Ithink its the 2nd question. Wait let me post the pic again.
    With all due respect, Blackberry claiming it is legal means nothing. Companies disagree with the legality of issues all the time.

    Also, Blackberry only claimed that it is legal to have the Android runtime because Android is open source; but, actually, that's only a small part of the legal issue. That's only covers a Google claim against Blackberry and Google isn't even the first party. Google doesn't OWN the overwhelming majority of the apps it hosts on Google Play.

    In actuality, Blackberry doesn't have permission to run ANY Android apps unless it attains EXPLICIT permission from the app developer for EACH individual app. The developer is the party with most of the legal rights. Since it is impractical to attain permission for each Android app, it will never be fully legal for Blackberry to advertise the runtime.

    Now we know that most developers probably won't go after Blackberry. Most are too small to wage a legal war and many don't care. There are some developers concerned with the sideloading of their paid/non-free apps, though. It is important to remember that it only really takes one developer and an opportunistic law firm to spoil the bunch, however, and Blackberry may make itself an easy legal target by openly advertising the app compatibility feature.
    JeepBB likes this.
    05-21-14 02:19 PM
  18. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    With all due respect, Blackberry claiming it is legal means nothing. Companies disagree with the legality of issues all the time.

    Also, Blackberry only claimed that it is legal to have the Android runtime because Android is open source; but, actually, that's only a small part of the legal issue. That's only covers a Google claim against Blackberry and Google isn't even the first party. Google doesn't OWN the overwhelming majority of the apps it hosts on Google Play.

    In actuality, Blackberry doesn't have permission to run ANY Android apps unless it attains EXPLICIT permission from the app developer for EACH individual app. The developer is the party with most of the legal rights. Since it is impractical to attain permission for each Android app, it will never be fully legal for Blackberry to advertise the runtime.

    Now we know that most developers probably won't go after Blackberry. Most are too small to wage a legal war and many don't care. There are some developers concerned with the sideloading of their paid/non-free apps, though. It is important to remember that it only really takes one developer and an opportunistic law firm to spoil the bunch, however, and Blackberry may make itself an easy legal target by openly advertising the app compatibility feature.
    Actually, BB is completely in the right when it comes to running Android apps. Android app developers are beholden to the point that they're developing apps to an operating system that is open source. There's no device specific requirements, just an OS requirement.

    Good luck to BB10 devices receiving on hand support, but it's completely legal.

    The one point that becomes clouded and shady, is the method of distribution.

    Posted via CrackBerry App
    05-21-14 02:32 PM
  19. kfh227's Avatar
    There is no law that says that an OS can not run binaries meant for other OSes. Emulators do it and WINE for Linux does it.

    Bbry intention was for many developers of android apps to re-release their apps on the blackberry store and that didn't happen.

    Posted via CB10
    05-21-14 03:58 PM
  20. amjass12's Avatar
    Most people don't care. They really don't. They want the apps, and this gives them the apps. They couldn't care less about most of the stuff that people go on about on here. It's not a half promise, it gives them what they want. If they sell the phones, all the other stuff can be dealt with. You're not seeing the wood for the trees.
    Popularity plays a role here. When u say people want apps... they'd still choose an android for the fact that an android phone is more likely to run android better than nything else whether it's true or not.

    I wouldn't say it's half a promise. The android ports ar ein BlackBerry world there sno doubt about that . People on this thread are adamant that the android ready sticker on the poster was referring to apk downloads not BlackBerry world downloads of android apps. If this is true ( anda bold.move from black erry) then I wouldn't call it half a.promise, rather a asterix on top referring the reader to the fine print stating they have to actively sideload an app store such as snap from which they can download u.supprted android apps.

    That for me would be the problem

    Posted via CB10
    05-21-14 04:06 PM
  21. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Saying that most Android apps will run on BB10 is not misleading at all. It's the truth. I'll agree that they need to be careful about how they make the claim, sure. It's an expectation that they need to manage. I know in my own experience I'm finding very few apps that DON'T work.

    The most sensitive issue is going to be the Google apps themselves, though even those are what I'd call "mostly" functional. Possibly, the new account support in 10.3 will improve on even that.
    As I noted, a few bad Apples spoil the bunch.

    As it is now, it's delivering nothing but false hope. 'I downloaded <insert app name> how come it doesn't work? I thought this was Android compatible?' A few of those instances and you've already upset people who bought your product leaving them feeling duped.
    People don't read. People don't care. If something says it should work, then it should work. Plain and simple. Take yourself off as a CrackBerry user and place yourself into an uninformed users shoes.
    JeepBB likes this.
    05-21-14 04:32 PM
  22. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Bla1ze, I think you're missing the bigger picture.

    BlackBerry's problem is not the odd user who returns the phone because one or two of their apps won't work, it's the several thousand who wouldn't even consider BUYING a BB10 handset because there's no chance it will run the app they need at all.

    The bulk of Android apps work. Netflix works. Google Earth works. IMDB works. Instagram works.

    You're trying to make the argument that a few apps not working perfectly are going to outweigh the tens of thousands of apps that are just fine, and further ignoring that the vast majority of Android phones sold in the world don't do any better. I don't agree.
    05-21-14 04:48 PM
  23. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Bla1ze, I think you're missing the bigger picture.

    BlackBerry's problem is not the odd user who returns the phone because one or two of their apps won't work, it's the several thousand who wouldn't even consider BUYING a BB10 handset because there's no chance it will run the app they need at all.

    The bulk of Android apps work. Netflix works. Google Earth works. IMDB works. Instagram works.

    You're trying to make the argument that a few apps not working perfectly are going to outweigh the tens of thousands of apps that are just fine, and further ignoring that the vast majority of Android phones sold in the world don't do any better. I don't agree.
    We'll agree to disagree then. This is also valuable info to consider - http://www.appannie.com/apps/google-play/top/indonesia/ <-- Top Android apps downloaded in Indonesia.
    BB_Bmore likes this.
    05-21-14 05:01 PM
  24. The Big Picture's Avatar
    We'll agree to disagree then. This is also valuable info to consider - http://www.appannie.com/apps/google-play/top/indonesia/ <-- Top Android apps downloaded in Indonesia.
    Besides some of the IMs like line and kakao talk. Most of the apps will work fine I think. Im surprised to see only 2 google apps on the list of top 100 free which are google translate and youtube.

    Signature - Google wants your info. What are you gonna do about it?
    05-21-14 05:23 PM
  25. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    There is no law that says that an OS can not run binaries meant for other OSes. Emulators do it and WINE for Linux does it.

    Bbry intention was for many developers of android apps to re-release their apps on the blackberry store and that didn't happen.

    Posted via CB10
    Actually there are copyright and patent laws that say they can't. Which is why you see Third Party Emulators develop the functionality instead of being natively supported in the OS. It's also why distribution of the emulators is legal, but the distribution of the roms/apps is not.


    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
    JeepBB likes this.
    05-21-14 06:02 PM
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