04-30-15 04:21 PM
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  1. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    No offense, do you really think this is the (technically) correct approach? :-)

    (sincere question)

      Telstra has the Classic now, "got it in two weeks agow"...  
    From Snapchat's perspective? Absolutely. That's the absolute best approach. Unless of course you'd like to assume that Snapchat is somehow entitled to cater to the needs of the average BB user, regardless the cost to them.

    Placing yourself in their shoes... What would you propose to be a better solution?

    And before you answer... Consider this... For a community that continuously raves about the security of BB's services, and at the same time disparages the security of others... Suddenly it's okay for other services to sacrifice security and privacy if it means app availability to the BB10 platform? C'mon.


    Penned via Tapatalk
    Last edited by DenverRalphy; 02-15-15 at 03:36 PM.
    02-15-15 03:22 PM
  2. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    No offense, do you really think this is the (technically) correct approach? :-)

    (sincere question)

    •   Telstra has the Classic now, "got it in two weeks agow"...   •
    From Snapchat's perspective? Absolutely. That's the absolute best approach. Unless of course you'd like to assume that Snapchat is somehow entitled to cater to the needs of the average BB user, regardless the cost to them.

    Placing yourself in their shoes... What would you propose to be a better solution?

    And before you answer... Consider this... For a community that continuously raves about the security of BB's services, and at the same time disparages the security of others... Suddenly it's okay for other services to sacrifice security and privacy if it means app availability to the BB10 platform? C'mon.


    Penned via Tapatalk
    There are better technical approaches. Prem, I asume you think the best approach for SnapChat would be to secure the API so that they could open it up and still provide security for their users. There are technical approaches to this, but real security has never been high on the list of priorities of SnapChat founders. It doesn't look like things have changed, or that they have brough real security specialists or cryptographers on board. Given my perception is correct, then Denver is correct, the only thing they can do is release the hounds and drive the third party developers away.
    02-15-15 03:57 PM
  3. akabbani's Avatar
    Ok everybody calm down and let's get back on topic. Does this mean snap10 is going to shut down?

    Posted via My Beast Q10
    02-15-15 04:00 PM
  4. tchocky77's Avatar
    If they're stealing SnapChat's API they will.

    I really can't believe some of what I read here.
    jmr1015 likes this.
    02-15-15 05:28 PM
  5. trsbbs's Avatar
    We must be truly bored......for an imenent launch of the Classic the silence out of Waterloo is deafening.
    No zip or zoom. No Flash and Bang.

    Dull, boring and worrisome.



    BlackBerry hates America!
    02-15-15 05:31 PM
  6. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    Um, the Classic is available, Shop BlackBerry, Amazon and more. At least in Canada.

    Z10STL100-3/10.3.1.2072
    02-15-15 05:49 PM
  7. lnichols's Avatar
    Well I have no use for SnapChat. My wife and I use BBM for our picture sharing, video chats, etc. The best thing out of this whole situation would be for Nemory to try to work with SnapChat to be contracted to make his app the Native SnapChat app. However neither party may be interested since lawyers got involved.

    Posted via CB10
    02-15-15 08:59 PM
  8. KermEd's Avatar
    Ok everybody calm down and let's get back on topic. Does this mean snap10 is going to shut down?

    Posted via My Beast Q10
    It already is shutdown as an unavailable app. Using it is done at your own discretion but they have been threatening to disable users using third party apps "for their own safety".

    Snapchat simply is not ready for Snapchat on bb10.

    Posted to CB via my Passport | FileArchiveHaven
    02-15-15 09:02 PM
  9. lnichols's Avatar
    We must be truly bored......for an imenent launch of the Classic the silence out of Waterloo is deafening.
    No zip or zoom. No Flash and Bang.

    Dull, boring and worrisome.



    BlackBerry hates America!
    And this is different from the norm? BlackBerry hasn't had anything exciting since the BB10 launch that they botched, and that ridiculous super bowl ad. Everything else has been tiny events and blah effort. They now have a great OS and associated MDM, with a horrific ecosystem, and no money that they are willing to spend to promote or change the brand and brand image. But cowering to a PKB enterprise market that is heavily trending all touch will fix it all!

    Posted via CB10
    02-15-15 09:03 PM
  10. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    There are better technical approaches. Prem, I asume you think the best approach for SnapChat would be to secure the API so that they could open it up and still provide security for their users. There are technical approaches to this, but real security has never been high on the list of priorities of SnapChat founders. It doesn't look like things have changed, or that they have brough real security specialists or cryptographers on board. Given my perception is correct, then Denver is correct, the only thing they can do is release the hounds and drive the third party developers away.
    Correct. Secure the API, instead of just blocking apps and dodgy web services that intercept pics. Some will slip through, and pics will leak... 8-o

    They could issue verified tokens, or use some other technical solution. Blocking apps and banning users/accounts to me seems more like a "social" solution, like plugging holes or playing whack-a-mole.

    It's their app, and their decision. Hope users will stay safe and maybe they (@ SnapChat) change their approach. I always hope for the best... :-)


      Telstra has the Classic now, "got it in two weeks agow"...  
    02-16-15 04:23 AM
  11. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    There are better technical approaches. Prem, I asume you think the best approach for SnapChat would be to secure the API so that they could open it up and still provide security for their users. There are technical approaches to this, but real security has never been high on the list of priorities of SnapChat founders. It doesn't look like things have changed, or that they have brough real security specialists or cryptographers on board. Given my perception is correct, then Denver is correct, the only thing they can do is release the hounds and drive the third party developers away.
    Securing the API would result in 3rd party clients not being able to access the API at all (which, is essentially what they're doing now). If they were to open it up, then that would negate securing the API. Simply because the inherent problem with 3rd party clients, is that there is no way to control what those clients do with the data after receiving it. Snaps are timed messages that are sent with the sender's intention that they will self destruct. No manner of securing the API can prevent a 3rd party client from being designed to not only fail to honor the self destruction of the images and messages, but also the ability to replicate and share those images and messages as well. Shutting down 3rd party access to the API is the only real solution.
    02-16-15 08:05 AM
  12. anon1727506's Avatar
    It's sad that as a Company that always likes to talk about security.... BlackBerry has pretty much ignored the whole app situation and how unsecure it has become. From leaving the Runtime open so that users could sideload any APK they wanted to even allowing apps into BlackBerry World that have been tested and rated as being very questionable both legally and from a user safety standpoint. A platform is only as strong as it's weakest link.
    early2bed likes this.
    02-16-15 08:27 AM
  13. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    Securing the API would result in 3rd party clients not being able to access the API at all (which, is essentially what they're doing now). If they were to open it up, then that would negate securing the API. Simply because the inherent problem with 3rd party clients, is that there is no way to control what those clients do with the data after receiving it. Snaps are timed messages that are sent with the sender's intention that they will self destruct. No manner of securing the API can prevent a 3rd party client from being designed to not only fail to honor the self destruction of the images and messages, but also the ability to replicate and share those images and messages as well. Shutting down 3rd party access to the API is the only real solution.
    If you secure the API you can control who uses it and set conditions on its use. Application vetting to ensure it complies with requirements, such as not collecting user data or saving snaps. This does require a level of trust between the API owner and the third party, but it can be done.

    Z10STL100-3/10.3.1.2072
    02-16-15 08:44 AM
  14. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    If you secure the API you can control who uses it and set conditions on its use. Application vetting to ensure it complies with requirements, such as not collecting user data or saving snaps. This does require a level of trust between the API owner and the third party, but it can be done.
    Sure. But then those apps would not be 3rd party apps. They'd be official apps, albeit through a license. But then that would create needless costs for Snapchat. They'd then have to expend resources having to ensure constant vetting of those licensed apps. Every time an app receives an update, which is usually quite frequent, would be an added headache. Any updates to the API, which is a continuous process, would have to be coordinated with licensed parties to ensure no break in service to users of those apps (and of course a whole new round of app vetting). The only reasonable way to offset the costs would be to charge a licensing fee to those app developers, which would more than likely ensure no app developer chooses to build one as the licensing fee would likely be too steep to make it worthwhile. And then there's the trust level... Snapchat would have to maintain constant vigilance that one of their licensed developers aren't distributing a modified version other than the official app that they publish to pre-arranged distribution channels. There are simply too many variables in allowing other app development that could threaten privacy and security to make the risk acceptable.

    If securing an API to allow 3rd party developers to safely build their own apps while ensuring security and privacy was easily possible, then we'd be seeing 3rd party BBM apps. I'm sure BBRY would love to make money off of licensing BBM access.
    Last edited by DenverRalphy; 02-16-15 at 09:15 AM.
    02-16-15 09:00 AM
  15. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    Sure. But then those apps would not be 3rd party apps. They'd be official apps, albeit through a license. But then that would create needless costs for Snapchat. They'd then have to expend resources having to ensure constant vetting of those licensed apps. Every time an app receives an update, which is usually quite frequent, would be an added headache. Any updates to the API, which is a continuous process, would have to be coordinated with licensed parties to ensure no break in service to users of those apps (and of course a whole new round of app vetting). The only reasonable way to offset the costs would be to charge a licensing fee to those app developers, which would more than likely ensure no app developer chooses to build one as the licensing fee would likely be too steep to make it worthwhile. And then there's the trust level... Snapchat would have to maintain constant vigilance that one of their licensed developers aren't distributing a modified version other than the official app that they publish to pre-arranged distribution channels. There are simply too many variables in allowing other app development that could threaten privacy and security to make the risk acceptable.

    If securing an API to allow 3rd party developers to safely build their own apps while ensuring security and privacy was easily possible, then we'd be seeing 3rd party BBM apps. I'm sure BBRY would love to make money off of licensing BBM access.
    The question was about a technical solution. But the economic down side may not be as large as you think. SnapChat is a bit of an exception, as is BBM now that they have ephemeral chat and message cancellation. But it could be done. The level of vigilance depends on the behavior of the developer. Not all developers behave irresponsibly, especially when the profitability of their work is at stake. I have been involved in lots of development partnerships dealing with very sensitive APIs and data that have been profitable for both sides. Medical applications, like SnapChat, have very special requirements on what an application is allowed to do with data and essentially all applications are third party since few patients are in a position to write their own application.

    Z10STL100-3/10.3.1.2072
    02-16-15 11:00 AM
  16. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    The question was about a technical solution. But the economic down side may not be as large as you think. SnapChat is a bit of an exception, as is BBM now that they have ephemeral chat and message cancellation. But it could be done. The level of vigilance depends on the behavior of the developer. Not all developers behave irresponsibly, especially when the profitability of their work is at stake. I have been involved in lots of development partnerships dealing with very sensitive APIs and data that have been profitable for both sides. Medical applications, like SnapChat, have very special requirements on what an application is allowed to do with data and essentially all applications are third party since few patients are in a position to write their own application.
    The bolded is the kicker though. To issue a license to an outside developer, Snapchat would need something to offset their own costs to oversee those apps. In turn, the developer would not only have to offset those costs, as well the developer would have to be able to meet criteria to reasonably ensure they behave in accordance within a contractual obligation. The developer would have to be able to make enough money with the app to cover oversight costs (probably in the form of a licensing fee), as well as ensure the ability to provide recompense to Snapchat in the event should their work do direct damage to Snapchat's service and reputation. And should Snapchat require that outside developed apps are distributed for free just like their in-house apps (likely, maybe not, but likely since that's part of their business model), that leaves very little in the way of options for the developer to monetize their app. And this just to ensure that one or both parties don't lose money in the venture, let alone both parties being able to profit from it.
    mornhavon likes this.
    02-16-15 11:31 AM
  17. jhimmel's Avatar
    They could issue verified tokens, or use some other technical solution. Blocking apps and banning users/accounts to me seems more like a "social" solution, like plugging holes or playing whack-a-mole.
    Thank you. That is the point I was trying to make earlier. Basically security by "cease and desist exploiting our vulnerabilities". Great when you know who or what is doing it, not so great when you don't.
    02-16-15 12:25 PM
  18. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    The bolded is the kicker though. To issue a license to an outside developer, Snapchat would need something to offset their own costs to oversee those apps. In turn, the developer would not only have to offset those costs, as well the developer would have to be able to meet criteria to reasonably ensure they behave in accordance within a contractual obligation. The developer would have to be able to make enough money with the app to cover oversight costs (probably in the form of a licensing fee), as well as ensure the ability to provide recompense to Snapchat in the event should their work do direct damage to Snapchat's service and reputation. And should Snapchat require that outside developed apps are distributed for free just like their in-house apps (likely, maybe not, but likely since that's part of their business model), that leaves very little in the way of options for the developer to monetize their app. And this just to ensure that one or both parties don't lose money in the venture, let alone both parties being able to profit from it.
    All of these conditions are easily met when the API owner and the developer behave in an entirely forthright, upstanding and honest way. Not likely to happen in this case, but since securing the API is going to be required for the C&D orders to be effective against the worst offenders, it may be somehow we see in the future if SnapChat survives.

    Z10STL100-3/10.3.1.2072
    02-16-15 12:52 PM
  19. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    Thank you. That is the point I was trying to make earlier. Basically security by "cease and desist exploiting our vulnerabilities". Great when you know who or what is doing it, not so great when you don't.
    They will have to secure the API so they can identify their own clients if they want to control third party development. Once they can identify their own clients they should be able to think about licensing others.

    I don't think that this will ever happen because the SnapChat company doesn't seem to want to learn about security. They will eventually have a another major issue and some other big chat company will drop their own ephemeral capability on the market and SnapChat will be done.

    Z10STL100-3/10.3.1.2072
    02-16-15 12:59 PM
  20. Ment's Avatar
    Images/video have a powerful consequence legally and in the public mind. Very few people care if a sexual twitter DM convo between kids leaks out but if sexting pics do its all over the news. SnapChat just isn't going to risk their API on 3rd party devs .
    JeepBB and mornhavon like this.
    02-16-15 01:16 PM
  21. anon1727506's Avatar
    They will have to secure the API so they can identify their own clients if they want to control third party development. Once they can identify their own clients they should be able to think about licensing others.

    I don't think that this will ever happen because the SnapChat company doesn't seem to want to learn about security. They will eventually have a another major issue and some other big chat company will drop their own ephemeral capability on the market and SnapChat will be done.

    Z10STL100-3/10.3.1.2072
    They have learned... thus they are cracking down on 3rd Party Apps that caused the security issue in the first place. We don't know SnapChat's plans for the future, this might just be a first step in securing their platform.

    For now we have the option of SNAP to get a real SnapChat client.
    02-16-15 01:28 PM
  22. lotuslanderz's Avatar
    Apparently Snapchat valuation could rise to $19 Billion. Wow.
    http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/0...ion-valuation/
    02-17-15 09:31 PM
  23. Ment's Avatar
    Apparently Snapchat valuation could rise to $19 Billion. Wow.
    http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/0...ion-valuation/
    Well that'd be another reason to clamp down. No Mr Investor, 3rd party leaks aren't going to happen anymore.
    mornhavon, JeepBB and anon1727506 like this.
    02-18-15 01:01 PM
  24. Alattin Simsek's Avatar
    You can keep using snap10 and get your account blocked that's fine by us the "whiners"

    Posted via CB10
    They can just Block me. I'm not addicted to Snapchat. I use it sometimes. But if they block, I'll never turn back.. even if I buy iPhone in the future.

    Posted via CB10
    02-19-15 03:33 AM
  25. nt300's Avatar
    This where people should DUMP SnapChat ASAP.

    Posted by Q5
    02-19-15 06:47 AM
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