06-02-19 08:00 AM
156 1234 ...
tools
  1. conite's Avatar
    Again, I have seen NO credible specific evidence that anyone's life has been dismantled by their social media and/or online presence.

    That fact that everyone now has a large digital footprint has effectively rendered it as all noise.
    TgeekB likes this.
    04-16-19 06:53 PM
  2. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Again, I have seen NO credible specific evidence that anyone's life has been dismantled by their social media and/or online presence.

    That fact that everyone now has a large digital footprint has effectively rendered it as all noise.
    I think your definitions are very narrow when it comes to harm. People have died due to attacks based on social media profiles. Doxxing, harassment, and other virtual attacks have done tremendous damage to thousands of individuals, and the fabric of prominent democracies are under persistent, sophisticated attacks using this data.

    There are literally thousands of court cases documenting these issues.

    I see you drawing a distinction between the "good" anonymized aggregate data that is collected by corporations providing services and the "bad" actions of individuals. But the reality is that much of the legally collected data ends up breached or misused eventually. OSINT researchers have shown that it's not difficult to re-identify people from browser fingerprints and other "anonymized" data. Thinking that there aren't sophisticated operations exploiting this legally collected information is wishful thinking.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    elfabio80 likes this.
    04-16-19 07:10 PM
  3. conite's Avatar
    I think your definitions are very narrow when it comes to harm. People have died due to attacks based on social media profiles. Doxxing, harassment, and other virtual attacks have done tremendous damage to thousands of individuals, and the fabric of prominent democracies are under persistent, sophisticated attacks using this data.

    There are literally thousands of court cases documenting these issues.
    That's totally different. What you are talking about is direct social media bullying and targeting - nothing like the attack vector being discussed here.

    I thought we were talking about collecting and assembling the scattered bits of information about me from my widespread online digital footprint, by a nefarious player, to harm me in some way. While theoretically possible, I have yet to see one case.
    TgeekB likes this.
    04-16-19 07:34 PM
  4. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    That's totally different. What you are talking about is direct social media bullying and targeting - nothing like the attack vector being discussed here.

    I thought we were talking about collecting and assembling the scattered bits of information about me from my widespread online digital footprint, by a nefarious player, to harm me in some way. While theoretically possible, I have yet to see one case.
    I apologize for confusion. I thought that was a different thread.

    The targets for the data Google collects are most often just as aggregated as the data, but that doesn't make them less significant. If a gunman sprays bullets into a crowd, the people who are hit don't feel fortunate because they weren't specifically targeted.

    Victims include depressed people contemplating suicide who are red "how-to" content; unbalanced people prone to paranoia, hatred and/or violence who are targeted with content promoting mass shootings and other terrorist agendas; conspiracy theorists if all kinds who are targeted with content reinforcing their positions, etc.

    Generally, these are not simply bad algorithms. There are people being paid, either by state actors with an agenda, by provocateur or hucksters, or inadvertently by advertisers who don't realize they are supporting harmful content. The system is being manipulated rather than simply serving relevant content as intended.

    The other targeted attacks using de-anonymized data are used as a components to improved phishing algorithms. We know they exist because you can purchase the services on the dark Web, but the ultimate targets are not individuals as often as they are companies and governments.



    Posted with my trusty Z10
    04-16-19 08:24 PM
  5. conite's Avatar
    I apologize for confusion. I thought that was a different thread.

    The targets for the data Google collects are most often just as aggregated as the data, but that doesn't make them less significant. If a gunman sprays bullets into a crowd, the people who are hit don't feel fortunate because they weren't specifically targeted.

    Victims include depressed people contemplating suicide who are red "how-to" content; unbalanced people prone to paranoia, hatred and/or violence who are targeted with content promoting mass shootings and other terrorist agendas; conspiracy theorists if all kinds who are targeted with content reinforcing their positions, etc.

    Generally, these are not simply bad algorithms. There are people being paid, either by state actors with an agenda, by provocateur or hucksters, or inadvertently by advertisers who don't realize they are supporting harmful content. The system is being manipulated rather than simply serving relevant content as intended.

    The other targeted attacks using de-anonymized data are used as a components to improved phishing algorithms. We know they exist because you can purchase the services on the dark Web, but the ultimate targets are not individuals as often as they are companies and governments.



    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Again, I think we're talking about different things. If I'm on Facebook and keep chasing descriptive hashtags until I meet someone who wants to hurt me based on my current frame of mind, that's very different from a random person targeting me and instigating an interaction based on aggregating annonymised data. I've never heard of the latter.
    04-16-19 09:21 PM
  6. TgeekB's Avatar
    Again, I think we're talking about different things. If I'm on Facebook and keep chasing descriptive hashtags until I meet someone who wants to hurt me based on my current frame of mind, that's very different from a random person targeting me and instigating an interaction based on aggregating annonymised data. I've never heard of the latter.
    I liken it to being afraid of terrorism, or a plane crash. These things are focused on by the media and people become convinced that they should change their lives around to protect themselves from something that has little chance of affecting them. You have a higher chance of being killed by a piano falling on your head.
    04-16-19 10:12 PM
  7. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    You two have very awesome counter arguments that would be a good live debate on a YouTube channel
    Thud Hardsmack likes this.
    04-16-19 10:14 PM
  8. Emaderton3's Avatar
    I liken it to being afraid of terrorism, or a plane crash. These things are focused on by the media and people become convinced that they should change their lives around to protect themselves from something that has little chance of affecting them. You have a higher chance of being killed by a piano falling on your head.
    Not at all. Your data has been used to target your more toward a certain belief. Isn't Facebook already guilty of this?
    04-16-19 10:14 PM
  9. TgeekB's Avatar
    Not at all. Your data has been used to target your more toward a certain belief. Isn't Facebook already guilty of this?
    I don’t use Facebook.
    04-16-19 10:15 PM
  10. Emaderton3's Avatar
    Again, I think we're talking about different things. If I'm on Facebook and keep chasing descriptive hashtags until I meet someone who wants to hurt me based on my current frame of mind, that's very different from a random person targeting me and instigating an interaction based on aggregating annonymised data. I've never heard of the latter.
    You don't have to go down the rabbit hole to be targeted. Facebook and the Russians have already shown this.
    04-16-19 10:16 PM
  11. TgeekB's Avatar
    What about TV? Books? Newspapers? They don’t influence people?
    04-16-19 10:17 PM
  12. Emaderton3's Avatar
    I don’t use Facebook.
    That wasn't the point. You suggested the example. And it has been proven to be targeted (not you specifically).
    04-16-19 10:18 PM
  13. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    What about TV? Books? Newspapers? They don’t influence people?
    Exactly, you can’t protect the general public from laziness or stupidity...

    Both sides of the political spectrum praise and demonize social media as if any different than other forms of earlier media...
    TgeekB and Laura Knotek like this.
    04-16-19 10:19 PM
  14. conite's Avatar
    You don't have to go down the rabbit hole to be targeted. Facebook and the Russians have already shown this.
    I understand and accept that organizations that I choose to deal with - Facebook, Google, and the like - will provide directed advertising.

    The Russians dump "news" stories on social media as well, but use the features already provided with those services to do so.

    Perhaps I'm having trouble explaining myself. I'm referring to directed attacks on me personally based on aggregated anonymised information collected from a wide swath of my digital footprint.
    04-16-19 10:20 PM
  15. TgeekB's Avatar
    Exactly, you can’t protect the general public from laziness or stupidity...

    Both sides of the political spectrum praise and demonize social media as if any different than other forms of earlier media...
    Absolutely, and it’s always been that way to some degree. People act like marketing or profiling is some new science.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    04-16-19 10:21 PM
  16. Emaderton3's Avatar
    I understand and accept that organizations that I choose to deal with - Facebook, Google, and the like - will provide directed advertising.

    The Russians dump "news" stories on social media as well, but use the features already provided with those services to do so.

    Perhaps I'm having trouble explaining myself. I'm referring to directed attacks on me personally based on aggregated anonymised information collected from a wide swath of my digital footprint.
    But the dumps were targeted. You can't assume what you did on Facebook did not affect what you saw. But I am not saying it effected you, just that it may be there.
    04-16-19 10:23 PM
  17. TgeekB's Avatar
    I understand and accept that organizations that I choose to deal with - Facebook, Google, and the like - will provide directed advertising.

    The Russians dump "news" stories on social media as well, but use the features already provided with those services to do so.

    Perhaps I'm having trouble explaining myself. I'm referring to directed attacks on me personally based on aggregated anonymised information collected from a wide swath of my digital footprint.
    “Should we be afraid of Google” is the title of the thread. My life hasn’t been hurt at all because of targeted marketing that I chose to ignore or accept.
    04-16-19 10:24 PM
  18. Emaderton3's Avatar
    Exactly, you can’t protect the general public from laziness or stupidity...

    Both sides of the political spectrum praise and demonize social media as if any different than other forms of earlier media...
    Yes but now we have algorithms and AI that can focus and concentrate on those that can be exploited.
    04-16-19 10:25 PM
  19. Emaderton3's Avatar
    “Should we be afraid of Google” is the title of the thread. My life hasn’t been hurt at all because of targeted marketing that I chose to ignore or accept.
    Ok then. I am not afraid of Google either. I let them have my data in favor of high quality free apps.
    04-16-19 10:26 PM
  20. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Yes but now we have algorithms and AI that can focus and concentrate on those that can be exploited.
    Those same people have always been exploited.. Manipulation and the charisma effect aren’t new.. History repeats itself because people are lazy
    anon(10218918) likes this.
    04-16-19 10:36 PM
  21. Emaderton3's Avatar
    Those same people have always been exploited.. Manipulation and the charisma effect aren’t new.. History repeats itself because people are lazy
    To flip an election that even the winner's two models had him losing?
    04-16-19 10:37 PM
  22. conite's Avatar
    But the dumps were targeted. You can't assume what you did on Facebook did not affect what you saw. But I am not saying it effected you, just that it may be there.
    Again, I see no evidence of a literal hack of personal info. As per the New York Times:

    "Creating accounts designed to pass as belonging to Americans, the Internet Research Agency (Russians) spread its messages not only via Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, which have drawn the most attention, but also on YouTube, Reddit, Tumblr, Pinterest, Vine and Google+, among other platforms."

    They used the services using their normal features.
    Last edited by conite; 04-16-19 at 10:56 PM.
    04-16-19 10:43 PM
  23. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    To flip an election that even the winner's two models had him losing?
    Political camps have been using predictive algorithms forever... Whether Trump vs Clinton or Dewey vs Truman, prediction is only that...
    Laura Knotek and TgeekB like this.
    04-16-19 10:51 PM
  24. Emaderton3's Avatar
    Political camps have been using predictive algorithms forever... Whether Trump vs Clinton or Dewey vs Truman, prediction is only that...
    We are at unprecedented levels regardless of party.
    04-16-19 10:54 PM
  25. wbalogh's Avatar
    I can make and receive calls for all my numbers on all my phones. I just switch devices rather than share my home address with my carrier.

    One picks one's battles. My personal.phone goes into a Faraday bag before I get close to home. I don't lose any functionality I care about.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Do you use these phones in your car? Your car has a sim module inside the tcu if it's not an especially old one. You can be linked to your phones allright, but if you are, and you climb inside you car, your phone will move with that specific sim module your car has, every single time you drive it. The cars communication goes through the carrier as well.

    Posted via CB10
    anon(10218918) likes this.
    04-17-19 03:09 AM
156 1234 ...

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-15-19, 09:25 PM
  2. Should I stop my system updates?
    By RLeeSimon in forum BlackBerry KEYone
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 04-11-19, 07:19 PM
  3. Google Photos strange behavior
    By RLeeSimon in forum BlackBerry KEYone
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-11-19, 03:35 PM
  4. Google duo not working
    By Harish Kumar25 in forum BlackBerry Evolve
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-11-19, 01:00 PM
  5. My device is not compatible with this version of Instagram?
    By CrackBerry Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-10-19, 11:08 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD