08-28-14 09:54 PM
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  1. theRock1975's Avatar
    I see a lot of lame excuses defending Android's blatant data collection on this thread.

    To those people who answered "Yes" to "Would you like location services On?":

    Would you answer the same to:
    "Would you like Google to track and log your whereabouts forever which will benefit you in no way at all? In fact it may be used against you and Google will use it to get to know you better for is own ulterior motives and profiting."

    Location Services should not mean 24x7 people following.

    Android is garbage. Raise the bar and defend your privacy. This is not right.



    Posted via CB10
    lift likes this.
    08-16-14 07:41 AM
  2. Yatezy's Avatar
    Like what?

    Does anyone know what service you could gain if you enable your location tracking? My 5 year old garmin gives me directions without collecting personal information. Or put it another way, do you think you would lose anything if the location tracking setting is turned off?

    Posted via CB10
    It knows where my home is, my place of work, my girlfriends mothers house and the gym I attend so it shows the traffic and time to all these places. It tells me at around 5pm what the traffic is like and the time it takes to get to work as that's usually the time I set off. It also does it on the nights I attend the gym.

    These couldn't happen if I had that feature switched off. It needs to learn my pattern and what time I set off for these places. Not a single advert is pushed to me on GN for this feature.

    Also if you've searched for things to do in an particular area, when you get to that area there is card with places to see and things to do. It'll show me bus routes in the area if I've been searching for a bus. That's just the location tracking.

    It scans my emails and tells me when packages have been delivered with a picture of the item you have ordered, flight delays, hotel reservations. It also shows you scores and news for sports teams you follows, anything you regularly search for. It does actually automate stuff for you.

    If I turned off the location tracking it limits a lot of its features. I turn off Google Now then it just becomes a search function. Now most of this is automated once it's gotten to learn your patterns, would you like to tell me another service else that makes life this easy whilst it gathers all your data since we've already established every company pretty much does it?
    mornhavon likes this.
    08-16-14 07:50 AM
  3. theRock1975's Avatar
    It knows where my home is, my place of work, my girlfriends mothers house and the gym I attend so it shows the traffic and time to all these places. It tells me at around 5pm what the traffic is like and the time it takes to get to work as that's usually the time I set off. It also does it on the nights I attend the gym.

    These couldn't happen if I had that feature switched off. It needs to learn my pattern and what time I set off for these places. Not a single advert is pushed to me on GN for this feature.

    Also if you've searched for things to do in an particular area, when you get to that area there is card with places to see and things to do. It'll show me bus routes in the area if I've been searching for a bus. That's just the location tracking.

    It scans my emails and tells me when packages have been delivered with a picture of the item you have ordered, flight delays, hotel reservations. It also shows you scores and news for sports teams you follows, anything you regularly search for. It does actually automate stuff for you.

    If I turned off the location tracking it limits a lot of its features. I turn off Google Now then it just becomes a search function. Now most of this is automated once it's gotten to learn your patterns, would you like to tell me another service else that makes life this easy whilst it gathers all your data since we've already established every company pretty much does it?
    Everything you mentioned can be done without location history.

    Your whereabouts last month are not needed for current bus schedules. They are not needed for finding a nearby restaurant. They are not needed for current traffic conditions.

    The problem is the storage of this information. You sometimes need to expose your location for a service to work. Google doesn't need to keep it.

    Posted via CB10
    lift likes this.
    08-16-14 08:13 AM
  4. Yatezy's Avatar
    Everything you mentioned can be done without location history.

    Your whereabouts last month are not needed for current bus schedules. They are not needed for finding a nearby restaurant. They are not needed for current traffic conditions.

    The problem is the storage of this information. You sometimes need to expose your location for a service to work. Google doesn't need to keep it.

    Posted via CB10
    No they ain't, I agree. But if I wanted all that information without it, I would need to search it. They store it see places you repeatedly visit.

    Now I just swipe up from anywhere and it's all readily available.

    Everyone raves on about the hub and it's ability to make messaging easier. This is androids version of the hub with all the information you regularly need.

    I could opt out of it if I don't want it. It seems all phones do it. The iPhone had a file logging your were abouts a couple of years ago, it was found by a hacker. BB could easily be doing the same but since no one has hacked it we won't know.
    08-16-14 08:18 AM
  5. jonnaver's Avatar
    I've got news for you.....they've already GOT all that data. Google or not.

    Ever heard of targeted ads? Google or not, all the bits of info you leave online is used to deliver to you those ads you see right by the CB banner.

    I GAVE Google the authority to track my location because I GET information through Google Now which I USE. Google knows where I live, where I work, where I get my nails done because I TOLD Google oh verily yah please do track me.

    What's all the drama? Does anyone REALLY think that *THEY* can't get info on you?

    Got a credit card? Pay taxes? Have credit? Have a mortgage? Use FB, Twitter, Foursquare? Look at porn? Google or not *THEY* already can bring up that information and can produce it and turn it over to whoever needs it. There IS no privacy.

    Does anyone REALLY think that by avoiding Google they can keep *THEM* away from collecting data? If they can't get it through Google they get it through whatever other method is at their disposal.

    It really tickles me when I read all the NSA discussions here. Ooooooo I've got a BlackBerry the NSA can't get to me. Seriously......*THEY* already got it .

    Value your privacy? Live off the grid. Otherwise you already gave *THEM* data by paying your bills, taxes, logging on social media...heck logging in here. Me? I know that if I get lost on a hike Google has tracked me. Works fine for me, knowing that if I go missing *THEY* can get that info. And that's a bigger and more real concern to me than black helicopters swooping down on me and some mainframe amassing bits of data on my latest trip to Designer Shoe Warehouse.
    A few people have mentioned all of those points, but have you noticed that the most outspoken against Google in this thread haven't responded to these counterpoints? There's two words for that: willful ignorance. They're basically doing the equivalent of covering their ears and yelling, "nope, meesa say Google bad! Nana Nana Nana meesa can't heeeeear you"
    Nicholas Kathrein likes this.
    08-16-14 08:46 AM
  6. qbnkelt's Avatar
    A few people have mentioned all of those points, but have you noticed that the most outspoken against Google in this thread haven't responded to these counterpoints? There's two words for that: willful ignorance. They're basically doing the equivalent of covering their ears and yelling, "nope, meesa say Google bad! Nana Nana Nana meesa can't heeeeear you"
    Well it's early morning or early lunch time around US and some of Europe. They might be busy.
    Nicholas Kathrein likes this.
    08-16-14 08:48 AM
  7. jonnaver's Avatar
    Well it's early morning or early lunch time around US and some of Europe. They might be busy.
    If they turned on their location services, we'd know for sure! ๐Ÿ˜
    Tre Lawrence and tre10 like this.
    08-16-14 08:51 AM
  8. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    If they turned on their location services, we'd know for sure! ๐Ÿ˜
    Ha!
    08-16-14 08:52 AM
  9. randall2580's Avatar
    Ever watch a Jason Bourne movie? Whenever someone gets in the car with him he asks them if they have a cell phone on them. Of course the answer is yes at which time he takes it, smashes it and throws it out of the window....why do you think that is? The question isn't because he's worried about Google - the cell phone itself is the most accurate tracking device ever invented and you carry it with you where ever you go now days.

    Here in the USA both Verizon and AT&T (and I am sure all of the others here) offer "family tracking" for an example of the fact that they know where you cell phone is every waking moment of every day. You can opt into the service, but do you really think those cell providers still don't track where you are every day? You're fooling yourself if you think they don't.

    In some ways you want this. You would love your cell phone to give accurate location data in the case you have to pull over to the side of the road and dial 911 for chest pains, or your daughter fell off the swings in a park in a town you're not familiar with entirely.

    With your carrier there is no opt out. No erasing the data. And if you think they are not using it to make money, think again.
    08-16-14 09:10 AM
  10. lift's Avatar
    I've got news for you.....they've already GOT all that data. Google or not.

    Ever heard of targeted ads? Google or not, all the bits of info you leave online is used to deliver to you those ads you see right by the CB banner.

    I GAVE Google the authority to track my location because I GET information through Google Now which I USE. Google knows where I live, where I work, where I get my nails done because I TOLD Google oh verily yah please do track me.

    What's all the drama? Does anyone REALLY think that *THEY* can't get info on you?

    Got a credit card? Pay taxes? Have credit? Have a mortgage? Use FB, Twitter, Foursquare? Look at porn? Google or not *THEY* already can bring up that information and can produce it and turn it over to whoever needs it. There IS no privacy.

    Does anyone REALLY think that by avoiding Google they can keep *THEM* away from collecting data? If they can't get it through Google they get it through whatever other method is at their disposal.

    It really tickles me when I read all the NSA discussions here. Ooooooo I've got a BlackBerry the NSA can't get to me. Seriously......*THEY* already got it .

    Value your privacy? Live off the grid. Otherwise you already gave *THEM* data by paying your bills, taxes, logging on social media...heck logging in here. Me? I know that if I get lost on a hike Google has tracked me. Works fine for me, knowing that if I go missing *THEY* can get that info. And that's a bigger and more real concern to me than black helicopters swooping down on me and some mainframe amassing bits of data on my latest trip to Designer Shoe Warehouse.
    Guess I hit a nerve. The entire point I have been trying to make is why give Google any information or use their services? As you stated there are lots of other places that try to collect data on you already.
    For your information I TRY to limit the amount of data I put out there. I NEVER use any type of social media. No targeted ads for me because I know what plugins to use and how to configure my browsers so I am not tracked. As a matter of fact, I never see any ad's browsing the internet. They are blocked and so are the cookies and web bugs that try to track me.
    Basically it all boils down to one fact. I care a lot about my privacy and I do everything I can to limit my information no matter what I do, where I go and what companies I deal with. Using any Google services is basically just handing away your data for their benefit and their profit and I'm not doing it.
    theRock1975 likes this.
    08-16-14 10:44 AM
  11. qbnkelt's Avatar
    I see a lot of lame excuses defending Android's blatant data collection on this thread.

    To those people who answered "Yes" to "Would you like location services On?":

    Would you answer the same to:
    "Would you like Google to track and log your whereabouts forever which will benefit you in no way at all? In fact it may be used against you and Google will use it to get to know you better for is own ulterior motives and profiting."

    Location Services should not mean 24x7 people following.

    Android is garbage. Raise the bar and defend your privacy. This is not right.



    Posted via CB10
    What concrete actions are available to protect your privacy?

    To answer your question....tracking my location is helpful to me for reasons I have already explained, but I will give two examples - during my commute and during my hikes where I might take a wrong turn and get lost but where cell tower data can provide an approximation of my whereabouts. That, to me, is useful. So yes, I will continue to turn location services on.

    Now...about privacy. How, concretely, do you defend your privacy?
    08-16-14 10:54 AM
  12. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Guess I hit a nerve. The entire point I have been trying to make is why give Google any information or use their services? As you stated there are lots of other places that try to collect data on you already.
    For your information I TRY to limit the amount of data I put out there. I NEVER use any type of social media. No targeted ads for me because I know what plugins to use and how to configure my browsers so I am not tracked. As a matter of fact, I never see any ad's browsing the internet. They are blocked and so are the cookies and web bugs that try to track me.
    Basically it all boils down to one fact. I care a lot about my privacy and I do everything I can to limit my information no matter what I do, where I go and what companies I deal with. Using any Google services is basically just handing away your data for their benefit and their profit and I'm not doing it.
    Misinformation and grand melodrama always hits a nerve with me.

    As I have stated before, I use their services because I find value in what they provide to me. Again, to reiterate, I am full aware that I am tracked by myriad agencies and corporations. There are areas of the world where cameras follow you every single step of the way and there is no way that I will avoid travel to areas that interest me because of some overly dramatised concern for an Orwellian big brother State because IT.IS.ALREADY.HERE.

    You *are* in fact using social media through the use of this forum. You *are* in fact tracked every single time you make a purchase unless you pay for cash and never use a credit card. Great...plug in all you want....the instant you use your card you are in fact tracked.

    Don't use Google services. Sure. No problem. I don't work for Google. But you are looking at one single entity out of all the entities who have your information every single time you access the internet or buy anything via credit card.

    Plug ins? Do you REALLY think that agencies will be denied the information they seek because of a plug in? Think again.

    By the way....do you know absolutely the actions of the source of the APKs you're loading on to your BB10 device?
    08-16-14 11:03 AM
  13. Yatezy's Avatar
    Guess I hit a nerve. The entire point I have been trying to make is why give Google any information or use their services? As you stated there are lots of other places that try to collect data on you already.
    For your information I TRY to limit the amount of data I put out there. I NEVER use any type of social media. No targeted ads for me because I know what plugins to use and how to configure my browsers so I am not tracked. As a matter of fact, I never see any ad's browsing the internet. They are blocked and so are the cookies and web bugs that try to track me.
    Basically it all boils down to one fact. I care a lot about my privacy and I do everything I can to limit my information no matter what I do, where I go and what companies I deal with. Using any Google services is basically just handing away your data for their benefit and their profit and I'm not doing it.
    I realise this wasn't directed at me but I'll answer as to why I use it.

    Currently there is no other app available on the market that does what GN does and does it as well. To be cheesy about it, this is what the 70s imagined what the future would look like with information you need being handed to you on a plate.

    Yes, Google Now is the future. Embrace it!
    08-16-14 11:23 AM
  14. lift's Avatar
    Plug ins? Do you REALLY think that agencies will be denied the information they seek because of a plug in? Think again.
    I guess you are not getting my point and that's OK. I am not trying to hide from any agencies. I am not trying to hide anything.
    I am just a person that believes that no company has a need to know what I am doing, where I am going, what I search for or what websites I visit on the internet, where I work , how I get there, what movies or music I may like, what sports teams (if any) I may like. Etc. None of that stuff (and more that I didn't even mention) is anybody's or any companies business. Period.
    I am not going to use any kind of social media or Google services that just gives my information away for some kind of perceived benefit.
    There is nothing out there that is free. Facebook, Google, etc are in the business to gather data and use that for advertising revenue. Pure and simple. Again, they are not offering anything to anyone because they are nice people and want to do you big favors. It's for money and they do not care what they have to do to get more of it.
    08-16-14 11:43 AM
  15. qbnkelt's Avatar
    And an informed consumer who chooses to make use of those services is in no way acquiescing to an Orwellian personal affront. I have given consent because *I* use them. This characterisation of uninformed passivity is absolutely contrary to my choice in participating in location services.
    You don't use them. Fine. I have no personal investment. I am aware of what I give, make choices accordingly, have no interest in what others do, and haven't got a David against Goliath perception of myself.
    And I know that the last generation that had true privacy preceded the Industrial age.

    Sent from my SUPER HOT Nokia Lumia 1520 via Tapatalk
    08-16-14 12:11 PM
  16. jh07's Avatar
    When we download Android apps on our BlackBerry and have to give them location position, isn't that the same as using a Android phone?

    Posted via CB10
    08-16-14 12:18 PM
  17. theRock1975's Avatar
    When we download Android apps on our BlackBerry and have to give them location position, isn't that the same as using a Android phone?

    Posted via CB10
    No! Providing your location as input to a service is location SHARING. When you are not using services such as bus schedules or gps, and your every move is logged, this is location TRACKING .

    There are many cases when you must share your real location. For example, your bank checks your IP When you log in. Have you tried TOR? Your IP will map to a location in the middle of the ocean. Guess what, you won't be able to log in.

    I get that. I actually want that when I'm not banking or purchasing something.

    What I don't get is why people are being Tracked by Google when not using location sharing Apps.

    Google Now is NOW. Why are they logging your every move and logging it to a database forever??

    Where were you on March 7, 2009 at 3:02 pm? Google knows.

    Posted via CB10
    lift likes this.
    08-16-14 12:59 PM
  18. jonnaver's Avatar
    Guess I hit a nerve.

    Misinformation and grand melodrama always hits a nerve with me.
    This is what we would call a spot on assessment of the situation. I would also add the words gross exaggeration, willful ignorance in the face of facts, and hyperbole.
    08-16-14 01:24 PM
  19. theRock1975's Avatar
    What concrete actions are available to protect your privacy?

    To answer your question....tracking my location is helpful to me for reasons I have already explained, but I will give two examples - during my commute and during my hikes where I might take a wrong turn and get lost but where cell tower data can provide an approximation of my whereabouts. That, to me, is useful. So yes, I will continue to turn location services on.

    Now...about privacy. How, concretely, do you defend your privacy?
    QB, your need for gps position for hiking and use of transportation app does not justify Google tracking you and logging your whereabouts forever.

    The location tracking and history collection should be a granular option within location services and should be OFF by default even if location sharing is ON. This is reasonable isn't it?

    EDIT: What am I doing for privacy?
    No social media. Family and friends know not to post anything about myself or my family.
    No cookies!
    Browser Cache goes to RAM drive and is wiped on every chance.
    No apk!
    No cloud storage.
    Throwaway email accounts
    Rotating home phone numbers.

    Posted via CB10
    lift likes this.
    08-16-14 01:40 PM
  20. Coffee Shampoo's Avatar
    QB, your need for gps position for hiking and use of transportation app does not justify Google tracking you and logging your whereabouts forever.

    The location tracking and history collection should be a granular option within location services and should be OFF by default even if location sharing is ON. This is reasonable isn't it?

    EDIT: What am I doing for privacy?
    No social media. Family and friends know not to post anything about myself or my family.
    No cookies!
    Browser Cache goes to RAM drive and is wiped on every chance.
    No apk!
    No cloud storage.
    Throwaway email accounts
    Rotating home phone numbers.

    Posted via CB10
    How does that prevent your Internet service provider from keeping your data and tracking/storing all you do in the Internet? Because trust me, they do it. It's just the same with your carrier that provides data for your cellphone.

    Posted via CB10
    Witmen and tdawg00 like this.
    08-16-14 01:51 PM
  21. ianbordas's Avatar
    Nice! I have no history!!

    See where Google knows you have been: Google Location History-img_20140816_142902.png

    Posted via CB10
    08-16-14 01:58 PM
  22. theRock1975's Avatar
    How does that prevent your Internet service provider from keeping your data and tracking/storing all you do in the Internet? Because trust me, they do it. It's just the same with your carrier that provides data for your cellphone.

    Posted via CB10
    The ISP is first party. They have to know where you are to provide you the link.

    It's the crooked/incompetent app developers, cloud storage providers and predatory advertisers we have to worry about.

    It seems Blackberry is the only company working to protect our privacy. Everyone else just wants to exploit it.

    Posted via CB10
    lift likes this.
    08-16-14 02:30 PM
  23. katiepea's Avatar
    I see a lot of lame excuses defending Android's blatant data collection on this thread.

    To those people who answered "Yes" to "Would you like location services On?":

    Would you answer the same to:
    "Would you like Google to track and log your whereabouts forever which will benefit you in no way at all? In fact it may be used against you and Google will use it to get to know you better for is own ulterior motives and profiting."

    Location Services should not mean 24x7 people following.

    Android is garbage. Raise the bar and defend your privacy. This is not right.



    Posted via CB10
    doesn't really matter, blackberry depends on android now, and your cell phone provider is selling your information / location without needing any permissions anyway. what towers you've connected to , etc. Calling android trash is certainly your right, but like I said, it just doesn't matter, I use Android and I don't allow Google to track me, so the point you're attempting to make really just falls flat. Most people, and I mean the vast majority, find that Google tracking them affords them a ton of convenience that they are willing to give to that company in order to use other services that it offers. Everyone knows Google is doing this, anyone that opposes it can either not use it or opt out of it, so there isn't really a point to be made. Google isn't the government, nobody is forcing anything on anyone.

    BTW I trust Google with my information more than I trust my ISP with it. My ISP doesn't provide me with details about people requesting data, they pretty much just do it, they answer to nobody, they're a monopoly and they all do the same shady things. Google on the other hand informs people of data requests. I'm really trying to see your point of view, but I don't think there is one. You have a hatred of a company that nobody is forcing you or anyone else to use, and that's fine, but trying to dismiss the company that owns 85% of marketshare for smartphones won't get you very far.

    EDIT: I want to emphasize that this is absolutely not any sort of privacy violation. This is occurring openly and with you having access to this information. They aren't stealing it or hiding it. It's actually something that people love
    http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comm...o_see_all_the/
    Last edited by katiepea; 08-16-14 at 04:43 PM.
    Coffee Shampoo and Witmen like this.
    08-16-14 03:59 PM
  24. katiepea's Avatar
    EDIT: What am I doing for privacy?
    No social media. Family and friends know not to post anything about myself or my family.
    No cookies!
    Browser Cache goes to RAM drive and is wiped on every chance.
    No apk!
    No cloud storage.
    Throwaway email accounts
    Rotating home phone numbers.

    Posted via CB10
    Let me make very clear that I believe your right to privacy is guaranteed. I think you not only have the right to it, but that you are perfectly sane for caring and expressing concern here, I hope my previous post is not seen as some sort of attack or anything. I will respond to your actions for protecting your privacy as mostly in vain though. Just using the internet destroys all of your objectives. Even if you use Tor. Even without cookies you're still vulnerable to data collection, even without browser cache, even if you don't use Android apps there are still plenty of BB apps that track, throwaway email accounts don't really do anything except inconvenience you, they're still all traced and logged back to you or your mac address / ip address. In a file for you they will all appear together, no matter how disposable they are. Same thing goes with phone numbers. I don't know, or care to know, who you care about tracking you or having your information, that's your business. If you're serious about this though, there are other methods.
    08-16-14 04:55 PM
  25. theRock1975's Avatar
    doesn't really matter, blackberry depends on android now, and your cell phone provider is selling your information / location without needing any permissions anyway. what towers you've connected to , etc. Calling android trash is certainly your right, but like I said, it just doesn't matter, I use Android and I don't allow Google to track me, so the point you're attempting to make really just falls flat. Most people, and I mean the vast majority, find that Google tracking them affords them a ton of convenience that they are willing to give to that company in order to use other services that it offers. Everyone knows Google is doing this, anyone that opposes it can either not use it or opt out of it, so there isn't really a point to be made. Google isn't the government, nobody is forcing anything on anyone.

    BTW I trust Google with my information more than I trust my ISP with it. My ISP doesn't provide me with details about people requesting data, they pretty much just do it, they answer to nobody, they're a monopoly and they all do the same shady things. Google on the other hand informs people of data requests. I'm really trying to see your point of view, but I don't think there is one. You have a hatred of a company that nobody is forcing you or anyone else to use, and that's fine, but trying to dismiss the company that owns 85% of marketshare for smartphones won't get you very far.

    EDIT: I want to emphasize that this is absolutely not any sort of privacy violation. This is occurring openly and with you having access to this information. They aren't stealing it or hiding it. It's actually something that people love
    http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comm...o_see_all_the/
    I don't believe many people knew about this. I mentioned this detail to all my friends with Androids(mostly tech people) and they were all severely disturbed and upset. I would be too. It's totally unacceptable and unnecessary to allow this for the 3-4 times a day you actually need to share your location.

    I'm glad you took the steps to block it. I would too.

    Posted via CB10
    lift likes this.
    08-16-14 05:02 PM
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