08-28-14 10:54 PM
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  1. Nicholas Kathrein's Avatar
    Guess I hit a nerve. The entire point I have been trying to make is why give Google any information or use their services? As you stated there are lots of other places that try to collect data on you already.
    For your information I TRY to limit the amount of data I put out there. I NEVER use any type of social media. No targeted ads for me because I know what plugins to use and how to configure my browsers so I am not tracked. As a matter of fact, I never see any ad's browsing the internet. They are blocked and so are the cookies and web bugs that try to track me.
    Basically it all boils down to one fact. I care a lot about my privacy and I do everything I can to limit my information no matter what I do, where I go and what companies I deal with. Using any Google services is basically just handing away your data for their benefit and their profit and I'm not doing it.
    What would you call a forum? I'd say it's social media. You're doing a bad job already if you don't count this.
    08-21-14 11:31 AM
  2. Nicholas Kathrein's Avatar
    The ISP is first party. They have to know where you are to provide you the link.

    It's the crooked/incompetent app developers, cloud storage providers and predatory advertisers we have to worry about.

    It seems Blackberry is the only company working to protect our privacy. Everyone else just wants to exploit it.

    Posted via CB10
    Wow. Your so wrong. The ISP / Phone Companies who have your location data and everything you do online are the 1st to give the government anything they want. I know AT&T have backdoors for the gov. that lets them log in and listen to live calls and pull anything logged.
    08-21-14 11:39 AM
  3. Nicholas Kathrein's Avatar
    I didn't really wanna say he was a liar but maybe a little embellishment of the truth about their tech savvyness as if they were really tech savvy they would already know the options of their phone inside and out.

    Under location in the options there's Google Location reporting. In that it's split into Location Reporting and Location History
    http://i.imgur.com/lX59kFk.jpg

    Location history
    http://i.imgur.com/0bqg1D1.jpg
    Also, Android users have this thing where it tracks you and even notifies your facebook friends if you are near. And this is with location services on the facebook app supposedly off. And according to my friend, no way to turn it off. If there is, please let me know so I can tell him how. But that is REALLY intrusive if you ask me...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    Uninstall Facebook. No seriously uninstall it! Just joking. I don't have it installed just because it takes a lot of battery but what your saying is not correct meaning your not wrong it just has to be a setting somewhere. You might have to log into the Facebook.com on a computer to turn that off. I'm not sure.
    08-21-14 11:55 AM
  4. lift's Avatar
    Wow. Your so wrong. The ISP / Phone Companies who have your location data and everything you do online are the 1st to give the government anything they want. I know AT&T have backdoors for the gov. that lets them log in and listen to live calls and pull anything logged.
    Everyone knows that the phone carriers can supply the Gov't with data. The issue here, which you and some others don't seem to be getting is why just give away ALL your privacy to Google and it's advertisers that pay for data? For the "convenience of some app that's not NECESSARY".
    That's the whole point of what some of us here are trying to figure out. Don't you have any value at all for your privacy?
    I don't care about my carrier collecting SOME data and providing it to some Gov't agency that claims they need it. There is no way around that. What I care about, and many others agree, is the rampant data collecting that Google tries to do whenever you use their services. So why subject yourself to that and just hand them all your privacy on a day to day basis?
    08-21-14 12:14 PM
  5. lift's Avatar
    Just to add to the above post, the Carriers have less data about you than Google does if you use their services. Phone companies collect some data because they are required to by law. Google collects everything they can get their hands on because the better profile they build about you, the more money for them. Why would anyone want to be a part of that?
    08-21-14 12:16 PM
  6. tre10's Avatar
    Just to add to the above post, the Carriers have less data about you than Google does if you use their services. Phone companies collect some data because they are required to by law. Google collects everything they can get their hands on because the better profile they build about you, the more money for them. Why would anyone want to be a part of that?
    For their convenience. I know may be hard for you to understand but there are people who know all about what you posted and can't give up Google. I'm such a person

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
    08-21-14 12:28 PM
  7. Nicholas Kathrein's Avatar
    I didn't really wanna say he was a liar but maybe a little embellishment of the truth about their tech savvyness as if they were really tech savvy they would already know the options of their phone inside and out.

    Under location in the options there's Google Location reporting. In that it's split into Location Reporting and Location History
    http://i.imgur.com/lX59kFk.jpg

    Location history
    http://i.imgur.com/0bqg1D1.jpg
    This is a red herring.

    First, I don't agree to allow Google to track me in perpetuity. I allow Google to track a user in the current time and the past. Should I be as paranoid* as you, I could disassociate myself from Google. I just don't want to.

    Second, you state "which will benefit you in no way at all". This is the giant red herring. OF course Google gives me something in return for my non-personal data. It gives me "free" services. Now, I'll agree that those services aren't truly "free". Google gets something in return. But Google doesn't sell m1a1mg's information. They sell random data that shows person X has been to all of these locations. And every time person X goes in this area, they stop at Arby's. Let's send him and Arby's coupon. Oh, the sheer horror of that. Google tracking me gives me services and more.

    Third, and finally, if you really told "tech savvy" people about this and they were surprised, I'd suggest raising the bar on your standard of "tech savvy". My 20 year old son in the Army knew it. His exact answer was "Duh? How else would Google Now work."

    An honest question, do you use any apps at all? Because some of my favorite apps serve me best by tracking where I am. Waze and Yelp come to mind.


    I don't mean that to be an insult, although I'm sure it could be taken that way.
    Most folks don't know that there is a GPS chip in every device that can be turned on remotely and you have no control over how it works.

    Organizations like the NSA and other government agencies have had the ability to do this for a while and use the events of 911 and national security to do it.

    I have come to the conclusion that as long as you are connected to the grid via, cellular or Internet, you can be tracked. That's just the way it is with the technology that is available in today's world.

    My advice is to forget about it and live life to the fullest, worrying about someone tracking you only adds stress and shortens your lifespan, just my two cents.

    Sent from my lovely z30 on T Mobile USA
    Howarmat, I get why your location should be shared sometimes. It's necessary for live, realtime data. However, your location 9 weeks ago is not needed to know the ETA of your destination or traffic conditions today.

    I don't think we're all talking about the same thing.




    Posted via CB10
    I read this and this is a slanted take as if I was watching Fox News the most uninformed news network (studies have proven this.) You can take a lot of companies products and slant the reason on why it was created. This article is written as if everything they created was to mine people data. This is like what came 1st. The chicken or the egg. I say this because Google knows how to make good products that use data. If this is the products you make any products can be slanted to look like you made it to get peoples data. There are a few companies in this world that I would say their intentions shouldn't be questioned because they have so much money that at this point the company is more about making great / cool products then money. Google and Apple have more money then they know what to do with. They make / release things that they think are cool and great. Can they do stuff that seems common sense to be over stepping? Yes. Sometimes their users have to set them strait and say this isn't cool but an no time are these companies trying to be evil just to make money. Apple charges crazy profit margins and Google is great with data so everything they do revolves about around how to use that data and some seems creepy. Again Google is an easy target to slant for bad intent because you just say they want your data and everything they create is just to get your data instead of the truth which they only know how to make things that use data to accomplish something.
    08-21-14 12:30 PM
  8. raino's Avatar
    Bunker building indeed. And here I thought we had decided to kumbaya this thread...

    Google. No one cares about BB these days. The #1 and #2 companies are always targets.
    So what's your point? Google is being unfairly targeted? Is that it? BTW, where are these multinational privacy violation fines against Bing, or Apple..whichever business you're talking rankings in?

    I guess you need to read the TOS and ask why they need the TOS worded this way.
    That post's point clearly went over your head. Can you show me where despite the ToS' wording, BB has been hit with violations for improper data sharing/collecting/advertising/for whatever commercial reasons Google gets hit with all across the globe? Here, let me make it easier for you: it doesn't even have to amount to a regulatory fine-generating level. Find me where they have been just caught for it.
    lift and clickitykeys like this.
    08-21-14 12:36 PM
  9. Nicholas Kathrein's Avatar
    I didn't really wanna say he was a liar but maybe a little embellishment of the truth about their tech savvyness as if they were really tech savvy they would already know the options of their phone inside and out.

    Under location in the options there's Google Location reporting. In that it's split into Location Reporting and Location History
    http://i.imgur.com/lX59kFk.jpg

    Location history
    http://i.imgur.com/0bqg1D1.jpg
    This is a red herring.

    First, I don't agree to allow Google to track me in perpetuity. I allow Google to track a user in the current time and the past. Should I be as paranoid* as you, I could disassociate myself from Google. I just don't want to.

    Second, you state "which will benefit you in no way at all". This is the giant red herring. OF course Google gives me something in return for my non-personal data. It gives me "free" services. Now, I'll agree that those services aren't truly "free". Google gets something in return. But Google doesn't sell m1a1mg's information. They sell random data that shows person X has been to all of these locations. And every time person X goes in this area, they stop at Arby's. Let's send him and Arby's coupon. Oh, the sheer horror of that. Google tracking me gives me services and more.

    Third, and finally, if you really told "tech savvy" people about this and they were surprised, I'd suggest raising the bar on your standard of "tech savvy". My 20 year old son in the Army knew it. His exact answer was "Duh? How else would Google Now work."

    An honest question, do you use any apps at all? Because some of my favorite apps serve me best by tracking where I am. Waze and Yelp come to mind.


    I don't mean that to be an insult, although I'm sure it could be taken that way.
    Most folks don't know that there is a GPS chip in every device that can be turned on remotely and you have no control over how it works.

    Organizations like the NSA and other government agencies have had the ability to do this for a while and use the events of 911 and national security to do it.

    I have come to the conclusion that as long as you are connected to the grid via, cellular or Internet, you can be tracked. That's just the way it is with the technology that is available in today's world.

    My advice is to forget about it and live life to the fullest, worrying about someone tracking you only adds stress and shortens your lifespan, just my two cents.

    Sent from my lovely z30 on T Mobile USA
    I read the article. I laughed because if that isn't satire, someone is clueless.
    You do know that it takes about a half second to toggle Location on and off in the notification panel when you do or don't want it running. Right?

    No need. I've been around long enough to tell the difference between silly clickbait editorial pieces and actual news. If you thought those links were the latter instead of the former you would probably really enjoy an author named David Icke
    Everyone knows that the phone carriers can supply the Gov't with data. The issue here, which you and some others don't seem to be getting is why just give away ALL your privacy to Google and it's advertisers that pay for data? For the "convenience of some app that's not NECESSARY".
    That's the whole point of what some of us here are trying to figure out. Don't you have any value at all for your privacy?
    I don't care about my carrier collecting SOME data and providing it to some Gov't agency that claims they need it. There is no way around that. What I care about, and many others agree, is the rampant data collecting that Google tries to do whenever you use their services. So why subject yourself to that and just hand them all your privacy on a day to day basis?
    You are correct. Google needs to make money off their services. I am the product. I am not paying Google to use all that great software. Usually they'd be out of business since I'm not paying them but they are doing what tv has done forever which is have advertisers foot the bill so more people have access to the Google Services which then means more people can get ads and make Google money which in turn allows them to make more services that I can use. I just don't understand how you would think that this is a symbiotic relationship.
    08-21-14 12:41 PM
  10. lift's Avatar
    You are correct. Google needs to make money off their services. I am the product. I am not paying Google to use all that great software. Usually they'd be out of business since I'm not paying them but they are doing what tv has done forever which is have advertisers foot the bill so more people have access to the Google Services which then means more people can get ads and make Google money which in turn allows them to make more services that I can use. I just don't understand how you would think that this is a symbiotic relationship.
    Sorry. The more posts you make, the more you don't seem to make sense. Google make billions a year in revenue. Almost all of that is from advertisers. They pay Google for search statistics, they pay Google for peoples usage data. It's all about making money. There is no way on earth that Google is in business to make as you say "cool products". They make those products (services, apps, etc) to make money.
    Also, you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to fox news. Look it up. They have more viewers than almost all the other news networks combined. But let's stay on topic. Google wants your data. All of it. They want to make money. Lot's of it. They collect all kinds of data to make better profiles of their users. Pretty simple. So what don't you understand?
    08-21-14 02:07 PM
  11. MmmHmm's Avatar
    Google Now and many other google products are very useful and I use them. I understand that I am trading my data for these services. I honestly don't care whether they make a billion dollars on my data and I don't care that I see targeted ads now and again. I like my privacy in the sense that I don't want someone peeping in my windows while I get dressed. However, I don't feel any sense of violation of privacy that a server somewhere tracks my data and plugs it into an algorithm. That's just not my idea of what's private. To each his own. If you don't like it, then opt out. If you like the services, awesome, I do too. Opt in.
    tre10 and mornhavon like this.
    08-21-14 11:06 PM
  12. MobileZen's Avatar
    See where Google knows you have been: Google Location History-kool-aid-man.jpg

    Posted via CB10
    lift likes this.
    08-23-14 04:46 PM
  13. clickitykeys's Avatar
    I don't care about my carrier collecting SOME data and providing it to some Gov't agency that claims they need it. There is no way around that. What I care about, and many others agree, is the rampant data collecting that Google tries to do whenever you use their services. So why subject yourself to that and just hand them all your privacy on a day to day basis?
    I consider this to be a very reasonable position and agree with it.

    Unfortunately, many people have expressed the thought that since the Government can get your data anyway, it makes no sense for them to be judicious about what information they reveal to corporations.

    The problem with privacy is that people don't miss it until they lose it. That, to me, explains the cavalier defense of Google in this thread.
    Last edited by clickitykeys; 08-23-14 at 06:03 PM.
    lift and theRock1975 like this.
    08-23-14 05:28 PM
  14. lift's Avatar
    I consider this to be a very reasonable position and agree with it.

    Unfortunately, many people have expressed the thought that since the Government can get your data anyway, it makes no sense for them to be judicious about what information they reveal to corporations.

    The problem with privacy is that people don't miss it until they lose it. That, to me, explains the cavalier defense of Google in this thread.
    That was a great post. I could not have said it better. I hope when the Google defenders read that, they really think about what they are doing to their privacy. Thanks again for a great post.
    theRock1975 likes this.
    08-23-14 09:47 PM
  15. raino's Avatar
    And they can't even secure their collection mediums properly: BBC News - Gmail smartphone app hacked by researchers
    lift and clickitykeys like this.
    08-23-14 09:58 PM
  16. MmmHmm's Avatar
    That was a great post. I could not have said it better. I hope when the Google defenders read that, they really think about what they are doing to their privacy. Thanks again for a great post.
    Is it so hard to believe that many people know exactly what google does but don't care? That there is no great epiphany to be had? It's not that most people don't know, it's that they don't care. Believe it or not, different people have different ideas I what privacy means. Based on the explosion of social media and the things that people openly share online, I'd say people are less and less concerned about privacy. It's a changing social culture.
    lift likes this.
    08-24-14 04:15 PM
  17. clickitykeys's Avatar
    And they can't even secure their collection mediums properly: BBC News - Gmail smartphone app hacked by researchers
    Maan, this is depressing. Did not know about it. At least, it was benevolent hackers showing vulnerabilities in the apps (Gmail, H&R Block, Newegg, WebMD, Chase Bank, Hotels.com and Amazon), rather than any malicious entities.
    lift likes this.
    08-24-14 06:36 PM
  18. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Is it so hard to believe that many people know exactly what google does but don't care? That there is no great epiphany to be had? It's not that most people don't know, it's that they don't care. Believe it or not, different people have different ideas I what privacy means. Based on the explosion of social media and the things that people openly share online, I'd say people are less and less concerned about privacy. It's a changing social culture.
    Exactly.

    We live in in a culture where people happily post phone numbers and geo-tag photos.

    I believe most people know, and simply don't care. Definitely changing culture.
    lift likes this.
    08-24-14 07:35 PM
  19. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Won't speak for anyone else but I'm not defending Google. I am explaining my choice to use features that are available to me to avoid getting to day care late. THAT is my real world scenario as opposed to strangers' what ifs.
    m1a1mg likes this.
    08-25-14 05:16 AM
  20. lift's Avatar
    THAT is my real world scenario as opposed to strangers' what ifs.
    Again, nobody is telling you what to do or how to live your life. We are discussing WHAT Google does and are discussing what we believe are way too intrusive privacy practices. Google HAS to try and collect as much information/data as they can so they can build profiles that will net them big bucks in the advertising industry. Your information is worth a lot of money to advertising companies and they are feverishly trying to do whatever they can get away with to build profiles of people.
    SOME people here are in agreement that their privacy is not worth the trade offs for convenience. My privacy is important to me. A poster said in an earlier post that I participate in social media because I post here. This forum is not social media. And I do not participate in ANY form of social media, again because it's nobody's business what I do, where I go etc.
    08-25-14 11:09 AM
  21. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Again, nobody is telling you what to do or how to live your life. We are discussing WHAT Google does and are discussing what we believe are way too intrusive privacy practices. Google HAS to try and collect as much information/data as they can so they can build profiles that will net them big bucks in the advertising industry. Your information is worth a lot of money to advertising companies and they are feverishly trying to do whatever they can get away with to build profiles of people.
    SOME people here are in agreement that their privacy is not worth the trade offs for convenience. My privacy is important to me. A poster said in an earlier post that I participate in social media because I post here. This forum is not social media. And I do not participate in ANY form of social media, again because it's nobody's business what I do, where I go etc.
    I am addressing the "defending Google" comment. The rest has been played out and frankly nothing has been said that has been an earth shattering revelation.

    And social media refers to sites and interactions where there is a sharing of information and ideas in virtual communities and blogs. It's not just FB and Twitter.
    m1a1mg likes this.
    08-25-14 11:23 AM
  22. jonnaver's Avatar
    A poster said in an earlier post that I participate in social media because I post here. This forum is not social media. And I do not participate in ANY form of social media, again because it's nobody's business what I do, where I go etc.
    Using web forums and then taking a stand against social media membership is like moving the bbq propane tank from beside the fire pit to 5 feet away from it. You still get datamined by the ads, and forum content from posts appears far more frequently and in much higher volume in search engine results than tweets, Facebook posts, and G+ posts.

    I've personally gleaned people's real names, towns they live in, names and photos of them and their family members and even pets, hobbies and more all by just using web searches of their forum names. That's it. Why? Because over the years, people make nice big fat juicy long posts on forums about things they're interested in or feel strongly about.

    Don't like gmail policies? I hope you never email any gmail users. Now Google has you anyway. Hoping incognito browsing protects you? Yeah at your computer it does. Doesn't really do squat to keep you incognito from the sites you visit.

    You may think my point in all this is that I don't think you're right to care about privacy, but you'd be wrong. My point is that I think very little of what you've been preaching to others here about privacy is in fact correct.
    Last edited by jonnaver; 08-27-14 at 02:51 PM.
    08-27-14 01:25 PM
  23. lift's Avatar
    Using web forums and then taking a stand against social media membership is like moving the bbq propane tank from beside the fire pit to 5 feet away from it. You still get datamined by the ads, and forum content from posts appears far more frequently and in much higher volume in search engine results than tweets, Facebook posts, and G+ posts.

    I've personally gleaned people's real names, towns they live in, names and photos of them and their family members and even pets, hobbies and more all by just using web searches of their forum names. That's it. Why? Because over the years, people make nice big fat juicy long posts on forums about things they're interested in or feel strongly about.

    Don't like gmail policies? I hope you never email any gmail users. Now Google has you anyway. Hoping incognito browsing protects you? Yeah at your computer it does. Doesn't really do squat to keep you incognito from the sites you visit.

    You may think my point in all this is that I don't think you're right to care about privacy, but you'd be wrong. My point is that I think very little of what you've been preaching to others here about privacy is in fact correct.
    First of all I'm not preaching.
    Second, how do you know I am data mined? I use multiple layers of protection in my web browser. (I didn't realize you know everything about how my OS and browser is setup).
    Third, you will find nothing about me on the net. I have searched my name numerous times and nothing comes up.
    Fourth, don't sit there all smug and tell me very little I say about privacy is correct. Again, I didn't realize that you are some kind of know it all because that is exactly how your post just read.
    I know what I'm doing when it comes to protecting my privacy on the web. Don't tell me I don't because you have no idea what I do or what I know.
    The nerve of some people.
    08-27-14 11:26 PM
  24. jonnaver's Avatar
    First of all I'm not preaching.
    Second, how do you know I am data mined? I use multiple layers of protection in my web browser. (I didn't realize you know everything about how my OS and browser is setup).
    Third, you will find nothing about me on the net. I have searched my name numerous times and nothing comes up.
    Fourth, don't sit there all smug and tell me very little I say about privacy is correct. Again, I didn't realize that you are some kind of know it all because that is exactly how your post just read.
    I know what I'm doing when it comes to protecting my privacy on the web. Don't tell me I don't because you have no idea what I do or what I know.
    The nerve of some people.
    Looks to me from reading this thread that I'm just the latest in a line of people that have debunked your claims of how privacy on the internet really works and what the true risks are. And every time it happens your predictable response has been to get angry and indignant. If it makes you that upset then please by all means, continue residing in your false sense of security if that's what makes you feel safe. It's no loss to me. Just as you have expressed in your own words a desire to tell others about their privacy practices, I'm merely expressing a desire to warn people about listening to facts instead of hyperbole.

    When you manage to present some actual facts rather than spreading fear/uncertainty/doubt with unproven and unfounded claims, I'll be more than happy to listen. So far that has yet to happen.
    08-27-14 11:54 PM
  25. theRock1975's Avatar
    BGR now reporting Google locationhistory storage. They even say that the data is stored on their servers. For those that disabled and deleted it on their phones, there's an extra step to delete it on their servers, For those who didn't believe me that most of my friends weren't aware either, it's a front page featrured post. Most people are furious about this.

    Google Maps Location Tracking: How to opt out of location tracking | BGR

    Check out the comments from our Blackberry friends:
    See where Google knows you have been: Google Location History-bgr.png
    lift likes this.
    08-28-14 09:16 PM
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