12-03-14 07:58 AM
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  1. madman0141's Avatar
    Maybe it's not the US carriers, or BB, maybe it's the NSA and US gov pressing carriers to get the US public onto platforms they can easliy monitor and infect, thus the answer may not be to switch carriers, but to move to Canada instead.

    Hurry, before they close the borders ;-)
    Yeah they can't monitor phones in Canada
    JeepBB likes this.
    07-22-13 05:08 AM
  2. Fatboy40's Avatar
    The fact alone that a thread like this exists, has had over 12 thousand views and search engines will pick up on it, but may just be a rumour is very damaging to BlackBerry and potential sales.

    Something in my bones makes me actually believe that this may be true, and that BlackBerry are getting closer day by day to a nose dive that they just can't pull up from
    07-22-13 07:28 AM
  3. FFR's Avatar
    Kris, Verizon is also going to have to pay Apple for unsold phones. I believe that number is about 14 bil. Ouch!
    Your saying that verizon will pay apple 14 billion dollars.
    madman0141 likes this.
    07-22-13 08:31 AM
  4. undone's Avatar
    No screen shot...can't believe it.

    Does ATT still carrier the 9900? Yes.
    Torch, yes
    Curve, Yes
    Z10, Yes
    Q10, Yes

    If anything, I can see them dropping the older BBOS models so they dont have to pay fees to BB.
    bungaboy and madman0141 like this.
    07-22-13 09:02 AM
  5. omega supreme's Avatar
    this isn't anything new...none of the carriers are pushing anything blackberry...if i had to guess i would say stores are getting a bigger percentage from selling android and iphones than they do blackberries... whenever i go in a store and i end up telling them more about blackberry than they were told than that's not a good sign... right now, i'm seeing q10 commercials but they are very dull and boring, people don't see small screens and keyboards as "smartphones" anymore and see it as outdated hardware even though it may do more than their current phones...shame.
    07-22-13 09:16 AM
  6. anon1727506's Avatar
    No screen shot...can't believe it.

    Does ATT still carrier the 9900? Yes.
    Torch, yes
    Curve, Yes
    Z10, Yes
    Q10, Yes

    If anything, I can see them dropping the older BBOS models so they dont have to pay fees to BB.
    Until Gov and Corporations make the "switch", they are going to be asking for BBOS devices. Of course that doesn't mean that carriers won't drop them from consumer access....

    That said, I think that contracts with Gov and Corporations is the reason that some carrier have BB devices. IF sales are indeed slow, you might not see carrier's wanting to provide all of the new BB10 devices in their lineups.
    07-22-13 10:27 AM
  7. alternator77's Avatar
    Everyone should take video of these reps saying BlackBerry is going out of business and forward them to BlackBerry and post it online. Then we can possibly get an explanation as to what is going on from the carrier.

    Posted via CB10
    07-22-13 11:17 AM
  8. madman0141's Avatar
    If AT&T needs a lesson in how to market a BlackBerry then they need not look any further than Rogers in Canada who went nuts with the Z10 and Q10 and they're probably outselling AT&T quite handily in a country with 1/10th the population as a result. I know it's fashionable to blame BlackBerry for all their current ills but all you've got to do is look at Canada and the UK, amongst others, to understand how important carrier support is to the success of a device, BlackBerry can only do so much if the carrier is too lazy to get off their **** and do something.
    I feel your pain but lets honestly look at BlackBerry as you pointed out dropping the ball on advertising. There is no company that is worldwide that drops the ball on advertising in the United States. Come on the United States can make or break a company. As far as staff pushing the phone these stores are staffed with a bunch of $10 an hour 20 somethings with an internet degree so can we really expect them to make an educated decision on products?
    07-22-13 11:32 AM
  9. ppeters914's Avatar
    What terrifies me is when the day comes that I walk into any mobile store and my only choices are Android or ios.

    Posted via CB10
    Bingo! And that's what I thought my choices were last year until I accidentally discovered that BB10 was coming. If I wasn't already a BB user, I wouldn't have known....heck.....probably still wouldn't know due to the lack of marketing period. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: BlackBerry Marketing is an oxymoron.

    On the bright side, when I went into my AT&T store (near Alderwood Mall in Lynnwood, WA) to ask about the Z10 (curious to see what they'd say/do), the manager went "Cool! Awesome phone."

    I still plan on getting a Z10 unless everything goes TU in the next 6 months.
    07-22-13 11:45 AM
  10. bmantz65's Avatar
    If I were to guess, Samsung pays carriers incentives to push the Galaxy line. I bet it is part of Samsung's massive marketing budget. So Samsung pays $XXX amount in return for gurantee that the carriers will push the Galaxy phones and maybe promise XYZ of sales. The carrier takes that money and turns it into reward and payments for their sales people. $$$ = incentives to sell.

    In regards to Apple, I think it was a pretty smart move on their part to have carriers sign those sales contracts. They basically told the carriers, "This is an in-demand phone. Customers will stay with you and/or switch to you because you have this phone. We expect such big demand that you will need to buy XYZ from us." So Apple gets their mega $$$ and the carriers are pretty much guaranteed to have the iPhone crowd on board with them. There is no surprise why the top four carriers in the USA carry iPhones. If either one of them didn't carry it, they would be missing out on a lot of sales and profits.

    Sadly for BlackBerry it seems like they didn't have much to offer carriers, at least in the USA. So the carriers have no incentive (read: extra $$$ or having to meet sales quotas or rish losing $$$) to push BlackBerry over the Big Two. In fact, it seems like the carriers have forced BlackBerry to play on the carriers home court by enforcing the ridiculous software update process. BlackBerry needs the carriers but the carriers just don't seem too interested (sure there has been some fleeting interest, but it hasn't seemed consistent. For example, the Verizon CEO saying they support BlackBerry but they can't even distribute the 10.1 Z10 update that looks like lack of support ) and thus that is one reason why sales have and will most likely suffer.

    It is a shame that money and contracts drive business, but they do. BB might have to ante up some money for the carriers to fully get under them. If BB already has offered extra money to carriers, then something else is wrong.
    07-22-13 11:48 AM
  11. FFR's Avatar
    If I were to guess, Samsung pays carriers incentives to push the Galaxy line. I bet it is part of Samsung's massive marketing budget. So Samsung pays $XXX amount in return for gurantee that the carriers will push the Galaxy phones and maybe promise XYZ of sales. The carrier takes that money and turns it into reward and payments for their sales people. $$$ = incentives to sell.

    In regards to Apple, I think it was a pretty smart move on their part to have carriers sign those sales contracts. They basically told the carriers, "This is an in-demand phone. Customers will stay with you and/or switch to you because you have this phone. We expect such big demand that you will need to buy XYZ from us." So Apple gets their mega $$$ and the carriers are pretty much guaranteed to have the iPhone crowd on board with them. There is no surprise why the top four carriers in the USA carry iPhones. If either one of them didn't carry it, they would be missing out on a lot of sales and profits.

    Sadly for BlackBerry it seems like they didn't have much to offer carriers, at least in the USA. So the carriers have no incentive (read: extra $$$ or having to meet sales quotas or rish losing $$$) to push BlackBerry over the Big Two. In fact, it seems like the carriers have forced BlackBerry to play on the carriers home court by enforcing the ridiculous software update process. BlackBerry needs the carriers but the carriers just don't seem too interested (sure there has been some fleeting interest, but it hasn't seemed consistent. For example, the Verizon CEO saying they support BlackBerry but they can't even distribute the 10.1 Z10 update that looks like lack of support ) and thus that is one reason why sales have and will most likely suffer.

    It is a shame that money and contracts drive business, but they do. BB might have to ante up some money for the carriers to fully get under them. If BB already has offered extra money to carriers, then something else is wrong.
    Yes your right, the main reason bb10 is not selling is because of carrier contracts.
    Or
    Your wrong and blackberry is simply no longer in demand.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
    07-22-13 12:12 PM
  12. Moonbase0ne's Avatar
    I know there are those who wish to blame the media, the carriers, the investors on Wallstreet, the NSA, etc... For the lack of sales of BB10 in the US, but when BlackBerry doesn't do a good job of advertising their new phones and so many people don't know about it, who's to really blame?

    If I build a website, and it's the best website in its genre, but I don't spend enough money to advertise it, and to try to convince everyone that it's a great website, no one will care. No one will visit the site. No one will search for it on Google, yahoo, Bing, etc... because they won't know about.

    Also, if I've been building great products for the past 10+ years, but my last few were average, or offered nothing new, and someone came along and started making better products, and I didn't do anything until I was almost forgotten about, and my company brand and image were tainted, then decided to make this amazing, incredible, super awesome product, people might see that it's from the same developer who, for the last 3 years, said he had an amazing new product, but didn't deliver. Or, they simply liked the other newer products better.
    07-22-13 12:49 PM
  13. JasW's Avatar
    Poor marketing and marketing decisions is only a part of it. The other, rather large part is that BBRY essentially had to reinvent the smartphone for it to get back in the game. It didn't. It simply came out with a mid-spec'd device that had a new and, yes, quite decent OS -- one with various problems to boot. (As an aside, I trust that The Guy Who Made The Fonts Permanently Small On BB10 is looking for another line of work.) That wasn't enough. And, not surprisingly, the market had very little interest. That wouldn't have changed much no matter how many eyeballs in that market were repeatedly exposed to advertising by BBRY.
    07-22-13 01:02 PM
  14. njblackberry's Avatar
    (As an aside, I trust that The Guy Who Made The Fonts Permanently Small On BB10 is looking for another line of work.)
    I heard that the entire department of small fonts department was promoted. Let's Get Small.
    07-22-13 01:12 PM
  15. Lilith_Athena's Avatar
    look into updating it to 10.2.0.483 and sideload the debugging way. It'll make your experience 100x better and the OS itself is pretty stable haven't had an issue with it except for restoring. Download intouch(free) or contact x(1.99) and back up your contacts since that's all you really need anyways
    I really like this phone....and the battery life has been phenomenal. I have been reading about installing the leaks...because I know Verizon isn't going to push the new update any time soon. I'm just afraid I'll screw it up because I am FAR from tech savvy.
    07-22-13 04:41 PM
  16. ssbtech's Avatar
    When I got my Z10 the salesperson ended up taking about 4 minutes to figure out how to open the box. I guess he didn't have a little knife handy to cut the tape with.

    After the painful show of "what should I use to try and open the box with" he got it open. I saw the Zed for the first time and politely acknowledged his struggle with the box but said that I'd like a black one.

    His reply: "I didn't know they came in black or white".

    This was a Bell store.

    Retailers clearly aren't putting much effort into learning about the products they're selling. The salespeople probably push whatever is in their own pocket because that's what they're familiar with.

    If I had more acne than pubic hair I might be inclined to shrug my shoulders and take whatever they're pitching but for anyone who has gone through puberty and has a brain of their own, the retail staff is often quite useless.
    07-23-13 12:35 AM
  17. bubbbab's Avatar
    Our Rogers store here on ajax seemed very balanced. There's a dude on there that honestly seems to know everything about every phone. That's likely not possible, but to a layman, it appears that way. This big fellow will give you all the time you need to talk about anything you need. In my case I was getting the phones through retention and was in the store to talk it a little ahead of time. The retention rep was quite in favor of the Z and actually looking forward to getting hers. Si in my little corner of Canada, dealers and carrier reps seem pretty level about their approach.

    Presented by Dr. Emmett Brown on BlackBerry Z41
    07-23-13 12:44 AM
  18. northernpuppy's Avatar
    Our Rogers store here on ajax seemed very balanced. There's a dude on there that honestly seems to know everything about every phone. That's likely not possible, but to a layman, it appears that way. This big fellow will give you all the time you need to talk about anything you need. In my case I was getting the phones through retention and was in the store to talk it a little ahead of time. The retention rep was quite in favor of the Z and actually looking forward to getting hers. Si in my little corner of Canada, dealers and carrier reps seem pretty level about their approach.

    Presented by Dr. Emmett Brown on BlackBerry Z41
    Ajax is definitely not a little corner

    But to the other poster who described his Bell experience, I can tell you as a Blackberry rep going to these carriers and getting feedback and showing off cool things (i.e., android runtime), it's been hard. SAs are predisposed to what they know, and to what will equate to a quick and painless sale. They've heard the hype, but they know the 18-30 market wants S4's, cheapskates will get a Nexus at $0, and valley girls will want the iPhone. Bad stereotypes yes, but SAs are simple people. They want sales, and they don't want to see that customer for another 2-3 years. When the Z came out, there were some DOAs (just like any other phone), but because BBID and setup takes longer, they don't want to push BB10. Shameful.

    EDIT: This is the experience of carriers in Ontario. As far as carrier support down south, I can't really say, but I would have to jump on the marketing bandwagon. It's not that they haven't marketed it, it's just the way they have been doing it. BB has never been edgy or in your face. The superbowl ad really didn't explain the device, and it's taken them awhile before the "It's time" ads. I really think Samsung won consumers over with their witty ad campaign. BB needs that. It needs to poke fun at itself and, more importantly, the competition.
    07-23-13 01:00 AM
  19. reeneebob's Avatar
    When I got my Z10 the salesperson ended up taking about 4 minutes to figure out how to open the box. I guess he didn't have a little knife handy to cut the tape with.

    After the painful show of "what should I use to try and open the box with" he got it open. I saw the Zed for the first time and politely acknowledged his struggle with the box but said that I'd like a black one.

    His reply: "I didn't know they came in black or white".

    This was a Bell store.

    Retailers clearly aren't putting much effort into learning about the products they're selling. The salespeople probably push whatever is in their own pocket because that's what they're familiar with.

    If I had more acne than pubic hair I might be inclined to shrug my shoulders and take whatever they're pitching but for anyone who has gone through puberty and has a brain of their own, the retail staff is often quite useless.
    Then that guy was new because having taken the Bell BB10 training? It was multiple courses and quite in depth.

    And I don't appreciate the broad brush you paint retail staff with. Id love to see how you'd do if you had to keep up on always changing product lines and specs on top of new promos and constantly shifting rate plans and CRTC regulations. Sorry you had a bad experience. Not all of us are know nothing idiots.


    Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2
    EchoesFX likes this.
    07-23-13 02:25 AM
  20. katiepea's Avatar
    People in this thread are blaming AT&T? So its their fault the z10 hasn't sold well.... do you blame best buy when Sony TV 's don't sell well? The suggestion that it's always someone else's fault is a common theme around here. BlackBerry did what we all said they couldn't afford to do, botched the launch of a device that has problems. I like my z10 but the clock is running out. Right now bb10 doesn't even have proper email functionality, phones are rebooting, developers are ignoring the platform, updates are slow and fragmented, no headless app support.. the list is long. Sure "it's coming" it's always coming, we all said the launch couldnt be like this or they'd go under. Well the launch was and is like that. We're still waiting for fixes, always "soon". The difference between right now and last year is the expectations were higher then than now that we've seen and used the devices. We've went from being sure the product launch would be solid to making excuses again, "who needs that app?its stupid just use the browser" etc. They're bleeding, and now that the products have launched, I'm not sure I see enough to mend the wounds.
    07-23-13 02:39 AM
  21. birdman_38's Avatar
    People in this thread are blaming AT&T? So its their fault the z10 hasn't sold well.... do you blame best buy when Sony TV 's don't sell well? The suggestion that it's always someone else's fault is a common theme around here. BlackBerry did what we all said they couldn't afford to do, botched the launch of a device that has problems. I like my z10 but the clock is running out. Right now bb10 doesn't even have proper email functionality, phones are rebooting, developers are ignoring the platform, updates are slow and fragmented, no headless app support.. the list is long. Sure "it's coming" it's always coming, we all said the launch couldnt be like this or they'd go under. Well the launch was and is like that. We're still waiting for fixes, always "soon". The difference between right now and last year is the expectations were higher then than now that we've seen and used the devices. We've went from being sure the product launch would be solid to making excuses again, "who needs that app?its stupid just use the browser" etc. They're bleeding, and now that the products have launched, I'm not sure I see enough to mend the wounds.
    Best post I've read in a while. When Thorsten Heins speaks, he gives the impression he's not aware of any of those points. Or he simply just ignores them.
    07-23-13 03:04 AM
  22. STV0726's Avatar
    People in this thread are blaming AT&T? So its their fault the z10 hasn't sold well.... do you blame best buy when Sony TV 's don't sell well? The suggestion that it's always someone else's fault is a common theme around here. BlackBerry did what we all said they couldn't afford to do, botched the launch of a device that has problems. I like my z10 but the clock is running out. Right now bb10 doesn't even have proper email functionality, phones are rebooting, developers are ignoring the platform, updates are slow and fragmented, no headless app support.. the list is long. Sure "it's coming" it's always coming, we all said the launch couldnt be like this or they'd go under. Well the launch was and is like that. We're still waiting for fixes, always "soon". The difference between right now and last year is the expectations were higher then than now that we've seen and used the devices. We've went from being sure the product launch would be solid to making excuses again, "who needs that app?its stupid just use the browser" etc. They're bleeding, and now that the products have launched, I'm not sure I see enough to mend the wounds.
    Phones don't reboot anymore. If they do, your carrier hasn't pushed the fix. That IS someone else's fault.

    BlackBerry didn't do enough effective marketing, let alone marketing period in the States. That is their fault.

    Email works fine for many, myself included. Biggest missing feature is distribution lists.

    I agree with you to a certain degree.

    BlackBerry has a little bit of time left to make things right with 10.2, but if the SDKs currently out are all of what it is, I'm underwhelmed. There's no time for "BlackBerry 11...everything 10 should have been. Give us another shot! Oh and Z10 can't run it sorry." They have to get this right and ASAP...

    ~STV on Z10STL100-3/10.1.0.2025 TMO US
    07-23-13 07:40 PM
  23. ray689's Avatar
    People in this thread are blaming AT&T? So its their fault the z10 hasn't sold well.... do you blame best buy when Sony TV 's don't sell well? The suggestion that it's always someone else's fault is a common theme around here. BlackBerry did what we all said they couldn't afford to do, botched the launch of a device that has problems. I like my z10 but the clock is running out. Right now bb10 doesn't even have proper email functionality, phones are rebooting, developers are ignoring the platform, updates are slow and fragmented, no headless app support.. the list is long. Sure "it's coming" it's always coming, we all said the launch couldnt be like this or they'd go under. Well the launch was and is like that. We're still waiting for fixes, always "soon". The difference between right now and last year is the expectations were higher then than now that we've seen and used the devices. We've went from being sure the product launch would be solid to making excuses again, "who needs that app?its stupid just use the browser" etc. They're bleeding, and now that the products have launched, I'm not sure I see enough to mend the wounds.
    I also agree on some of your points. As far as would I blame best buy if Sony TV wasn't selling well.....if the TVs were locked up in the back, no display model, and when I asked for one, I was heavily encouraged to buy another brand....then yes I may be enclined to put some of the blame on best buy for that.

    Posted via Z10
    russworman and bradu1 like this.
    07-23-13 08:38 PM
  24. EchoesFX's Avatar
    People in this thread are blaming AT&T? So its their fault the z10 hasn't sold well.... do you blame best buy when Sony TV 's don't sell well? The suggestion that it's always someone else's fault is a common theme around here. BlackBerry did what we all said they couldn't afford to do, botched the launch of a device that has problems. I like my z10 but the clock is running out. Right now bb10 doesn't even have proper email functionality, phones are rebooting, developers are ignoring the platform, updates are slow and fragmented, no headless app support.. the list is long. Sure "it's coming" it's always coming, we all said the launch couldnt be like this or they'd go under. Well the launch was and is like that. We're still waiting for fixes, always "soon". The difference between right now and last year is the expectations were higher then than now that we've seen and used the devices. We've went from being sure the product launch would be solid to making excuses again, "who needs that app?its stupid just use the browser" etc. They're bleeding, and now that the products have launched, I'm not sure I see enough to mend the wounds.
    Considering that in the US, the carrier is who you go to in order to get your device, and the carriers are at best making a half baked effort, at worst actively telling customers NOT to buy the device, yes people are going to blame the carrier.

    Has BlackBerry screwed the pooch on marketing? Absolutely. Have US carriers sabotaged sales of the device by shoving it to a back corner of the stores, telling customers not to buy it and purposely lagging months behind the rest of the planet when it comes to pushing out updates that actually fix things like the rebooting problem? Absolutely.

    Posted via CB10
    bradu1 and ray689 like this.
    07-23-13 08:56 PM
  25. bradu1's Avatar
    Thank you Ray and Echoes. You two understand. The carriers here are withholding the updates that correct the problems, and then are telling customers not to buy the phones due to problems. It is horrible monopolistic business practices.

    Posted via CB10
    ray689 and OldSkoolVWLover like this.
    07-23-13 09:09 PM
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