12-03-14 07:58 AM
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  1. bradu1's Avatar
    Woah woah wait...are you seriously saying that you went in and asked to purchase a Z10 and they did anything besides say OK let me get one from the back wait here?

    Unacceptable. You knew what you wanted. You didn't ask for an opinion. You were ready to buy upon entry.

    There is NO excuse or justification for that behavior on their part because that is not sales behavior.

    ~STV on Z10STL100-3/10.1.0.2025 TMO US
    Exactly. I've repeated my experience several times on here. Went in to pay cash due to contract not being up, sales girl #1, oh, we only offer early upgrade with iPhone. Explain I'm not early upgrading nit just want to buy my phone outright and pay full cost. After back and forth with her for just a few minutes, on to salesman number 2 that she goes and gets. This one goes on and on, probably 30 minutes about why I want iPhone. When I make it perfectly clear I will never own an iPhone, then starts with Samsung phone and all it can do. Once I haven't changed my mind, I have a manager come over, plop down blue tooth earpiece, jawbone jam box, iPhone case and screen protector, proceeds to tell me he will give me all this, renew my contract and get me new iPhone free or pay 500 dollars for BlackBerry with no freebies. I had already made my case about why I didn't want ios or Android, so now I guess it was all about financials. I made it clear now at almost an hour in to the ordeal that they would sell me the BlackBerry or I would drive down the street to Best Buy and buy it there. They did end up selling it to me, actually got it for 450 instead of 500, and they did talk me in to renewing my contract by giving me the jam box. I guess I was stupid there. But I still had over a year left on my contract anyway, so I wasn't going anywhere.

    Read through the forums, you will see that I'm not alone in my experience. It's blatant that they are either a) trying to destroy BlackBerry, or b) pushing iPhone and Samsung to the extent that they do not want to sell anything else. I believe "b" is more likely, but the end result is the same.

    I'm a retailer myself, and I can see the justification for doing this due to the contracts the carriers have gotten themselves in to with Apple and I'm starting to think with Samsung. The carriers cannot just lose money like they will if they don't sell the minimum quantities of Iphones. But I think at some point in time, something will happen that will make these types of contracts illegal. It will probably be once a carrier does see a huge loss because of them. I just hope that BlackBerry and WP can survive in the meantime.

    Posted via CB10
    m0de25 and web99 like this.
    07-21-13 01:12 PM
  2. bubbbab's Avatar
    Interesting choice of words..."prism". could have something to do with the lack of carrier support. Just a thought.

    I do however agree that things are getting better, just not sure what it will take for adoption to increase in the US where Apple and Google have done a tremendous job at making people think they are the be all and end all in the industry.


    Posted via Z10
    I think it has go do with act that many of us, myself included looked at this as a new release of something old instead of an invention, for lack of a better term.

    Presented by Dr. Emmett Brown on BlackBerry Z41
    07-21-13 01:26 PM
  3. h20work's Avatar
    they are probably making room for the A10
    I'll quote myself from another thread. "The one that hasn't been officially announced yet?"
    JeepBB and Moonbase0ne like this.
    07-21-13 01:26 PM
  4. h20work's Avatar
    Exactly. I've repeated my experience several times on here. Went in to pay cash due to contract not being up, sales girl #1, oh, we only offer early upgrade with iPhone. Explain I'm not early upgrading nit just want to buy my phone outright and pay full cost. After back and forth with her for just a few minutes, on to salesman number 2 that she goes and gets. This one goes on and on, probably 30 minutes about why I want iPhone. When I make it perfectly clear I will never own an iPhone, then starts with Samsung phone and all it can do. Once I haven't changed my mind, I have a manager come over, plop down blue tooth earpiece, jawbone jam box, iPhone case and screen protector, proceeds to tell me he will give me all this, renew my contract and get me new iPhone free or pay 500 dollars for BlackBerry with no freebies. I had already made my case about why I didn't want ios or Android, so now I guess it was all about financials. I made it clear now at almost an hour in to the ordeal that they would sell me the BlackBerry or I would drive down the street to Best Buy and buy it there. They did end up selling it to me, actually got it for 450 instead of 500, and they did talk me in to renewing my contract by giving me the jam box. I guess I was stupid there. But I still had over a year left on my contract anyway, so I wasn't going anywhere.

    Read through the forums, you will see that I'm not alone in my experience. It's blatant that they are either a) trying to destroy BlackBerry, or b) pushing iPhone and Samsung to the extent that they do not want to sell anything else. I believe "b" is more likely, but the end result is the same.

    I'm a retailer myself, and I can see the justification for doing this due to the contracts the carriers have gotten themselves in to with Apple and I'm starting to think with Samsung. The carriers cannot just lose money like they will if they don't sell the minimum quantities of Iphones. But I think at some point in time, something will happen that will make these types of contracts illegal. It will probably be once a carrier does see a huge loss because of them. I just hope that BlackBerry and WP can survive in the meantime.

    Posted via CB10
    My experience at a tmo reseller on launch day:
    Me: do you have the new BlackBerry?
    Rep: yes we do
    Me: ok, I'll take one
    Rep: ok, I'll get one out of the back

    That's exactly how it went.
    ray689 and BergerKing like this.
    07-21-13 01:29 PM
  5. raino's Avatar
    My experience at a tmo reseller on launch day:
    Me: do you have the new BlackBerry?
    Rep: yes we do
    Me: ok, I'll take one
    Rep: ok, I'll get one out of the back

    That's exactly how it went.
    TMO is an interesting carrier, especially since post-Simple Choice. SC unveiling was (rumored) to correspond to TMO getting the iPhone so that they wouldn't have a Sprint-like situation on their hands. So theoretically, TMO should be more of a device-neutral carrier (manufacturer sponsored sales incentives notwithstanding,) as they don't have to subsidize a phone purchase.

    That is not to say ALL TMO reps are device-neutral. Read my experience here. The personal biases of sales reps cannot be overlooked. However, I do think that if sales incentives (carrot) or corrective training (stick) are offered, the anti-BlackBerry sales floor behavior can be corrected. Both ultimately are BB's responsibility though. Talk to the execs at carriers' sales, or shell out the $ for incentive-based sales.
    07-21-13 01:44 PM
  6. bradu1's Avatar
    My experience at a tmo reseller on launch day:
    Me: do you have the new BlackBerry?
    Rep: yes we do
    Me: ok, I'll take one
    Rep: ok, I'll get one out of the back

    That's exactly how it went.
    I have very limited coverage with tmo where I live, but even though, if I could get out if my ATT contract without it costing me money I would jump over in a minute.

    Posted via CB10
    h20work likes this.
    07-21-13 01:54 PM
  7. Branta's Avatar
    A $0 w/ 2 year agreement for a Z10 would not be anti-dumping. $400 off contract is fair price and $300 would be reasonably competitive. The phone would need to be $250 off contract or less in order to be even considered "dumping". Devices such as the Nexus 4 or the Nexus 7 or the Lumia 521 haven't triggered "dumping" laws yet. If the Z10 took on the Nexus 4's pricing strategy, it would probably be $200 off contract relative to the specs.
    From the analysis I've seen cost to BB is around $200-250, that is the minimum list price it can be supplied to resellers without risking import tariffs. Now add reseller's margin and $300-500 is the likely off contract price to end user. The fair contract price is easy to assess simply by calculating the subsidy element of the monthly plan rate over the length of contract - but the end result is the same, the amount paid for the hardware should be not less than the cost of production. (In fact it is a little more complicated and the administration may assign an arbitrary level particularly where there is perceived competition with home industry, or a trade war in other commodities)
    07-21-13 02:32 PM
  8. biotechx's Avatar
    They got rid of the 9860 right after I bought it, so that's two in a row........nothing new to me.
    h20work likes this.
    07-21-13 02:54 PM
  9. CarGuy1368's Avatar
    I've never seen an AT&T ad for the Z10 other than ones on the sides of web pages (and it's usually pictured next to Android devices).

    On the other hand, every time I turn on the TV, AT&T is showing the "more is better" ad with their plans and the iPhone 5 (even though I hate those ads, most people seem to like them).

    However, it isn't just AT&T's fault. It's also BlackBerry's fault. If the carrier isn't doing good marketing, then no one else but yourself is going to do it.

    BlackBerry has dropped the ball and I don't think they'll be able to pick it back up with the A10.

    Posted via the super amazing BlackBerry Q10
    07-21-13 02:55 PM
  10. Mr.Willie's Avatar
    If that is true then AT&T have nobody to blame but themselves for the dismal sales. They've put zero effort into marketing the device and staff training/awareness is pretty much non-existent. None of the US carriers have made as much effort as they could have, but AT&T must rank as the worst. With all the "issues" pre-release regarding carrier testing, it's almost as they flagged it to fail before it hit the market.
    Do you mean market it as fertilizer, like garden centers market horse **** ?

    $199 on contract when they came here to the US. Really ? When I upgraded my 9810, the lady at AT&T even asked me if I wanted a Z10. Will it run my brokerage app ? No. Do I really want to try and buy and sell securities via the web browser on a 4.3" screen ? No. Lets not even get into the reboots. Rebooting issue might be fixed now, but it wasn't then.

    They got rid of the 9860 right after I bought it, so that's two in a row........nothing new to me.
    How did you like it ? That's what I wanted, but I ended up with a 9810. I don't think AT&T even carried it, at least not in my area.

    I've never seen an AT&T ad for the Z10 other than ones on the sides of web pages (and it's usually pictured next to Android devices).

    On the other hand, every time I turn on the TV, AT&T is showing the "more is better" ad with their plans and the iPhone 5 (even though I hate those ads, most people seem to like them).

    However, it isn't just AT&T's fault. It's also BlackBerry's fault. If the carrier isn't doing good marketing, then no one else but yourself is going to do it.

    BlackBerry has dropped the ball and I don't think they'll be able to pick it back up with the A10.

    Posted via the super amazing BlackBerry Q10
    I like those commercials. More is better, especially screen size, which is why I don't have an iPhone. If they were really smart, they would direct those ads at Apple.

    As far as the A10 goes, if the hardware rumors are true (please don't be), then the ball will be rolling out the back of the end zone.
    Last edited by Mr.Willie; 07-21-13 at 04:22 PM.
    07-21-13 03:33 PM
  11. Jim Wolfson's Avatar
    I use the Z10 and iPhone 5, prefer the Z10. Would never had known had I not been a RIM device user before. While BBRY has executed well on some fronts, eg cash management, cutting expenses, it has also stumbled in so many other ways it is a shame.
    My Z10 is my first smartphone (moved from 7yo Moto Razr) and never owned a BBY product previously. I would have never known about it except that I'm a regular reader of Karl Denninger's financial blog (Ticker Guy here on CB) - he's done extensive analysis and reviews of why he prefers it, and that sold me.

    To date, I have NEVER seen a Blackberry ad that I didn't go looking for after hearing about it. I'm a TMO customer in the USA and when I drove 38 miles to their nearest store, the Z10 was in the back, dark with a dead battery and they "couldn't find" the charger but spent plenty of time trying to sell me a SGS4 instead. I vowed to buy online from TMO's website to avoid a single penny of commission to those losers. I'm just happy I'm not stuck with Verizon; they're shameful how their customers are denied the 10.1 update that will solve 90% of the problems users have.

    BBRY had better start to find its nuts regarding the carriers and get aggressive with marketing, or this recovery effort just isn't going to work. A fine product that people don't know about while they sit on almost $3 billion in cash.
    07-21-13 03:41 PM
  12. anon1727506's Avatar
    With the days of carrier exclusive products gone, so are the days of carriers promoting devices... unless that device is a major "draw" or it's in their contact with the manufacturer (Apple).

    With BlackBerry's marketshare so low and it's history and the quality of early test device and the future of the company in doubt and what happened to Palm.... is there any wonder that carriers didn't bet big on BB10 ?

    Posted via CB10
    h20work and kfh227 like this.
    07-21-13 03:52 PM
  13. Mr.Willie's Avatar
    My Z10 is my first smartphone (moved from 7yo Moto Razr) and never owned a BBY product previously. I would have never known about it except that I'm a regular reader of Karl Denninger's financial blog (Ticker Guy here on CB) - he's done extensive analysis and reviews of why he prefers it, and that sold me.

    To date, I have NEVER seen a Blackberry ad that I didn't go looking for after hearing about it. I'm a TMO customer in the USA and when I drove 38 miles to their nearest store, the Z10 was in the back, dark with a dead battery and they "couldn't find" the charger but spent plenty of time trying to sell me a SGS4 instead. I vowed to buy online from TMO's website to avoid a single penny of commission to those losers. I'm just happy I'm not stuck with Verizon; they're shameful how their customers are denied the 10.1 update that will solve 90% of the problems users have.

    BBRY had better start to find its nuts regarding the carriers and get aggressive with marketing, or this recovery effort just isn't going to work. A fine product that people don't know about while they sit on almost $3 billion in cash.
    The manager of the TMobile store around here had a Z10 on his hip when they first came out. He said he liked it. I was using a 9810 so we kind of hit it off. When I went back a week or two later he had ditched it. Too many problems, and they had a high rate of returns. I wasn't able to switch to TMobile because of lack of service where I live, so I haven't been over there since the 10.1 update came out.

    Personally, I wouldn't get caught dead with a Samsung, even if it granted you three wishes, and one of those wishes could be that it turned into a BB device that solved all of BB's problems. Well maybe I would in that case...
    07-21-13 04:29 PM
  14. shupor's Avatar
    If AT&T and Verizon are so bad at marketing how come they do a great job with the Iphone and the Samsung Galaxy series? We need to stop being BlackBerry apologists and see things they way they really are
    07-21-13 04:53 PM
  15. phuoc's Avatar
    If AT&T and Verizon are so bad at marketing how come they do a great job with the Iphone and the Samsung Galaxy series? We need to stop being BlackBerry apologists and see things they way they really are
    Marketing--Samsung is the master of it and Apple was of course the game changer.
    Mr.Willie likes this.
    07-21-13 04:58 PM
  16. bobshine's Avatar
    I'll quote myself from another thread. "The one that hasn't been officially announced yet?"
    Not announced but most probably carriers are already testing or about to test it.

    Posted via CB10
    07-21-13 05:03 PM
  17. h20work's Avatar
    If AT&T and Verizon are so bad at marketing how come they do a great job with the Iphone and the Samsung Galaxy series? We need to stop being BlackBerry apologists and see things they way they really are
    Well said, I'm not sure what exactly people expect the carriers to do.

    Most of the complaints about carrier support seem to be coming from up north by people without first hand knowledge. I've seen way more vzw and att ads than bbry sponsored ones, not to mention the direct mailings and emails. Bbry sent me an email saying the Z was available almost 2 weeks after I bought one
    shupor and JeepBB like this.
    07-21-13 05:03 PM
  18. h20work's Avatar
    Not announced but most probably carriers are already testing or about to test it.

    Posted via CB10
    Shouldn't they do the same with the iphone 5 and Galaxy 3 then?
    07-21-13 05:04 PM
  19. phuoc's Avatar
    Shouldn't they do the same with the iphone 5 and Galaxy 3 then?
    Do you mean iphone5s and sgs5?
    07-21-13 05:07 PM
  20. reeneebob's Avatar
    The power of perception is amazing! Still boggles my mind how such a great device can be so despised simply because perception of a brand is negative, seems like a real pity though, millions of people might never get to use the best OS invented within the last decade.....
    I wouldn't go that far.

    WebOS still wins that for me. It's probably why I like BB10 so much because so much of it was stolen from WebOS .


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
    07-21-13 05:08 PM
  21. Nine54's Avatar
    What you're saying makes total sense. However it's not quite how it works at least here with the corporate ATT store. I have a guy, my phone guy, lol! I worked with him years ago, and every year, he's who I buy my phone from. He knows that I know what I want and doesn't push me one way or another. When I went in this time to get my Z, the store was busy, with a waiting list to get help and bi got paired off with another rep. As I was going through two reps and a manager arguing that I wanted my Z and not an iPhone, my guy was looking over and laughing the whole time, because he knew what the end result would be and was just enjoying the show. Yes, they are forced to push the iPhone and push it hard. It is not about helping a customer pick the right phone for them, it's about selling them the iPhone. The other phones are there to draw people in, and then switch that sell to the glorious apple once their in the store. My 'guy' told me this back when I got my 9810 new. I think the only thing that's changed between then and now is it is now a harder sell. I mean geeze, I had to go through a manager to buy my Z. What the heck is that?

    Posted via CB10
    Wow. That wasn't the case at the corporate store I've been to or the store where I got my Z10. When I got the Z10, the rep did ask if I was upgrading from a 9900 and why I was going with BB, but he didn't press the issue--he understood. The corporate store near me definitely pushes the iPhone though, especially if they suspect you might not be tech savvy. They didn't harp on it, but made sure they covered it.

    Posted via CB10
    07-21-13 05:26 PM
  22. Nine54's Avatar
    Exactly. I've repeated my experience several times on here. Went in to pay cash due to contract not being up, sales girl #1, oh, we only offer early upgrade with iPhone. Explain I'm not early upgrading nit just want to buy my phone outright and pay full cost. After back and forth with her for just a few minutes, on to salesman number 2 that she goes and gets. This one goes on and on, probably 30 minutes about why I want iPhone. When I make it perfectly clear I will never own an iPhone, then starts with Samsung phone and all it can do. Once I haven't changed my mind, I have a manager come over, plop down blue tooth earpiece, jawbone jam box, iPhone case and screen protector, proceeds to tell me he will give me all this, renew my contract and get me new iPhone free or pay 500 dollars for BlackBerry with no freebies. I had already made my case about why I didn't want ios or Android, so now I guess it was all about financials. I made it clear now at almost an hour in to the ordeal that they would sell me the BlackBerry or I would drive down the street to Best Buy and buy it there. They did end up selling it to me, actually got it for 450 instead of 500, and they did talk me in to renewing my contract by giving me the jam box. I guess I was stupid there. But I still had over a year left on my contract anyway, so I wasn't going anywhere.

    Read through the forums, you will see that I'm not alone in my experience. It's blatant that they are either a) trying to destroy BlackBerry, or b) pushing iPhone and Samsung to the extent that they do not want to sell anything else. I believe "b" is more likely, but the end result is the same.

    I'm a retailer myself, and I can see the justification for doing this due to the contracts the carriers have gotten themselves in to with Apple and I'm starting to think with Samsung. The carriers cannot just lose money like they will if they don't sell the minimum quantities of Iphones. But I think at some point in time, something will happen that will make these types of contracts illegal. It will probably be once a carrier does see a huge loss because of them. I just hope that BlackBerry and WP can survive in the meantime.

    Posted via CB10
    That they were willing to make that type of "back room offer" could be grounds for a DOJ investigation. It's possible that store is just acting rogue. But, it be some type of collusion or anti-competitive "bullying" from Apple for carriers that don't meet a certain quota.

    Posted via CB10
    07-21-13 05:33 PM
  23. Kris Erickson's Avatar
    If AT&T and Verizon are so bad at marketing how come they do a great job with the Iphone and the Samsung Galaxy series? We need to stop being BlackBerry apologists and see things they way they really are
    Shupor have you not read the news about the deal Apple cut with AT&T / Verizon? They signed a 5year agreement with Apple and effectively they need to hit sales numbers each year. I recall AT&T is supposed to sell 23 BILLION this year alone or face rumoured 11 Billion in fines for failure. Now ask yourself as CEO of AT&T what do you tell your heads of sales? Do you tell them, if a customer asks for a non Apple phone sell it to them, or do you say If a customer asks for a non Apple phone push them toward the Apple and failing that sell them what they requested, but really push Apple.

    So yeah BB is at fault for bad PR that's why the fired their Ad company and also fired their director of US marketing. BUT, if sales staff have been trained to dissuade ppl from buying anything but Apple how is that really BB fault.

    I would like you to do me a favour and go into 2 different AT&T stores this week and ask them about buying a Z10 or Q10 and set it up as your coming from TMO, your contract is up and your interested in the BB phones. Make sure you say that your REALLY interested in the BB phones, see what happens and post back here.. Be Honest.
    07-21-13 05:36 PM
  24. Tank1978's Avatar
    BlackBerry won't be recognized as a decent phone until they get 10.2

    Posted via CB10
    07-21-13 05:44 PM
  25. h20work's Avatar
    Do you mean iphone5s and sgs5?
    Nope, meant shouldn't they discontinue the phones I said to make room for the next gen
    07-21-13 05:45 PM
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