01-21-15 01:26 PM
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  1. grahamf's Avatar
    How do you know this. Dual core processors can run 64 bit Operating Systems. Single cores cannot. BlackBerry devices have dual core processors so I highly doubt that the limitations come from the Processors. It may be the RAM that is the issue.

    Posted via CB10
    What? No
    The fact that a cpu is dual core has nothing to do with if it supports 64 bit or not.
    tanzarian likes this.
    11-24-14 06:06 AM
  2. anon3923428's Avatar
    What? No
    The fact that a cpu is dual core has nothing to do with if it supports 64 bit or not.
    Just about any Processor that is dual core can handle 64 bit Operating Systems. 64 bit processors have a 128 bit FSB that splits to two 64 bit bus. This allows for 64 bit processing hence 64 bit OS. X86 processors have a 64 bit FSB that splits to two 32 bit Bus.

    So theoretically, any CPU that is dual core can work with a 64 bit OS. Now if the board that the cpu sits on doesn't support 64 bit processing then that's an entirely different story but why would a manufacturer create a board to not support 64 processing if the CPU does. That wouldn't make any sense.

    Posted via CB10
    11-24-14 10:34 AM
  3. vladi's Avatar
    No need for discussion here really as its plain obvious that this was some outdated update plan or hardware limitation is just a BS to justify fragmentation.
    11-24-14 10:41 AM
  4. anon3923428's Avatar
    What fragmentation are you referring to?

    Posted via CB10
    11-24-14 10:52 AM
  5. Nigelbrown's Avatar
    The z3 has only 1.5gb of ram....bb10 can scale

    Posted via CB10
    11-24-14 11:05 AM
  6. anon3923428's Avatar
    The z3 has only 1.5gb of ram....bb10 can scale

    Posted via CB10
    Which is interesting since on a z30, RAM usage with out opening any apps is 800 mb through 1000 mb. So I'm curious as to how much RAM is used on a z3 when rebooted with nothing running.

    Posted via CB10
    11-24-14 11:25 AM
  7. grahamf's Avatar
    Just about any Processor that is dual core can handle 64 bit Operating Systems. 64 bit processors have a 128 bit FSB that splits to two 64 bit bus. This allows for 64 bit processing hence 64 bit OS. X86 processors have a 64 bit FSB that splits to two 32 bit Bus.

    So theoretically, any CPU that is dual core can work with a 64 bit OS. Now if the board that the cpu sits on doesn't support 64 bit processing then that's an entirely different story but why would a manufacturer create a board to not support 64 processing if the CPU does. That wouldn't make any sense.

    Posted via CB10
    That may be true for x86, but not really for ARM. Plus the only OS that really supports that is the Nintendo Wii U OS
    11-24-14 11:40 AM
  8. anon3923428's Avatar
    That may be true for x86, but not really for ARM. Plus the only OS that really supports that is the Nintendo Wii U OS
    So how does ARM work then cause last I've read and taught, they all pretty much work the same. Some instruction sets may differ with certain setups but they all pretty much work the same all over.

    Posted via CB10
    11-24-14 11:48 AM
  9. grahamf's Avatar
    Big difference. One is RISC the other is CISC.
    sentimentGX4 likes this.
    11-24-14 12:14 PM
  10. anon3923428's Avatar
    Big difference. One is RISC the other is CISC.
    Can you explain it then. It's been mention that the dual cores used on bb10 devices cannot support 64 bit OS. I've argued that the Processors can support 64 bit. What the answer and why?

    Posted via CB10
    11-24-14 01:35 PM
  11. grahamf's Avatar
    the answer is no because it's not designed for 64 bit code. ARM is in the process or switching over to 64-bit, but at the moment only the current iPhones and the occasional Android phone supports 64-bit. No BlackBerrys ship with 64-bit support, and the 64-bit chips are only starting to show up in phones this year.
    11-24-14 02:06 PM
  12. anon3923428's Avatar
    the answer is no because it's not designed for 64 bit code. ARM is in the process or switching over to 64-bit, but at the moment only the current iPhones and the occasional Android phone supports 64-bit. No BlackBerrys ship with 64-bit support, and the 64-bit chips are only starting to show up in phones this year.
    Wow... I stand corrected. It is true. Instead of using 128 for FSB, they used 64 for FSB there by feeding each core 32 bits. That blows. What gets me is that the tech has been around since 2011 and mobile devices never took advantage of it from what it looks like.

    Thanks for the read. Very informative.

    Posted via CB10
    11-24-14 02:37 PM
  13. BeautyEh's Avatar
    The Classic is going to be a major part of BB'S product line going forward - and unless something dramatic gets changed (it won't) - it literally has the same specs as Q10, with a bigger battery.
    So what conclusion can we draw from this?
    I think clearly, BB OS updates are not going to demand Passport only specs anytime soon. It would be asinine for them to release a brand new device which is then immediately unable to get the next update (10.4) - would it not?
    I do not know as much about how Cell makers design OS systems as some here, but I find it...unlikely from a logical standpoint that BB will add bells and whistles other than UI improvements which require enormous specs. Someone else here said it's a zero-sum game for them - agreed. Remember, they're really not aiming for consumer anymore. I could be wrong but I think having a complicated, battery consuming UI like LG G2 or something is not their logical way forward.

    Posted via CB10
    Prem WatsApp likes this.
    11-25-14 07:36 PM
  14. Rootbrian's Avatar
    The Classic is going to be a major part of BB'S product line going forward - and unless something dramatic gets changed (it won't) - it literally has the same specs as Q10, with a bigger battery. So what conclusion can we draw from this?I think clearly, BB OS updates are not going to demand Passport only specs anytime soon. It would be asinine for them to release a brand new device which is then immediately unable to get the next update (10.4) - would it not?I do not know as much about how Cell makers design OS systems as some here, but I find it...unlikely from a logical standpoint that BB will add bells and whistles other than UI improvements which require enormous specs. Someone else here said it's a zero-sum game for them - agreed. Remember, they're really not aiming for consumer anymore. I could be wrong but I think having a complicated, battery consuming UI like LG G2 or something is not their logical way forward. Posted via CB10
    OS systems sounds confusing, I think you meant operating system software more or less. BlackBerry 10 is simply a user interface over QNX Neutrino. So every BlackBerry is now powered by the same operating system (since the Q10 and Z10, even the Playbook tablet), that runs nuclear power plants. Them getting discontinued just because of an update to QNX is silly. Autoloaders (I have never used one to be honest) make that possible, to keep it updated.
    11-25-14 07:51 PM
  15. Witmen's Avatar
    The z3 has only 1.5gb of ram....bb10 can scale

    Posted via CB10
    Yep, and it can't run BB10 properly because of it. With the Z3, you are limited to only 4 open apps. That is what they had to do just to lower the ram requirement of BB10 down from 2 to 1.5GB. A savings of 512mb of RAM resulted in a fairly substantial sacrifice.

    For a comparison, the first commercially released Jolla Sailfish phone has a dual-core 1.4 GHz snapdragon 400 processor and only 1GB of RAM, yet it effortlessly handles having 20+ open apps running all at once.

    I don't understand why BB10 is such a resource hog, but hopefully it gets addressed. Even if that means the first gen devices get left behind.
    sentimentGX4 likes this.
    11-27-14 01:52 PM
  16. grahamf's Avatar
    Yep, and it can't run BB10 properly because of it. With the Z3, you are limited to only 4 open apps. That is what they had to do just to lower the ram requirement of BB10 down from 2 to 1.5GB. A savings of 512mb of RAM resulted in a fairly substantial sacrifice.

    For a comparison, the first commercially released Jolla Sailfish phone has a dual-core 1.4 GHz snapdragon 400 processor and only 1GB of RAM, yet it effortlessly handles having 20+ open apps running all at once.

    I don't understand why BB10 is such a resource hog, but hopefully it gets addressed. Even if that means the first gen devices get left behind.
    1. Considering the alternatives, only running four apps isn't so bad. Remember that hub plug-ins such as email or Facebook notifications don't count towards that total.

    2. And how do you get to that number of Jolla apps? Are you including basic call scripts such as email constantly waiting for new emails?
    Plus there's really a night and day difference in performance. The Jolla phone is noted in it's reviews to be somewhat slow and Android apps don't run anywhere as well as they do in BB 10, especially 10.3.1.
    Last edited by grahamf; 11-27-14 at 07:05 PM.
    11-27-14 06:50 PM
  17. Witmen's Avatar
    1. Considering the alternatives, only running four apps isn't so bad. Remember that hub plug-ins such as email or Facebook notifications don't count towards that total.

    2. And how do you get to that number of Jolla apps? Are you including basic call scripts such as email constantly waiting for new emails?
    I am only talking about the minimized apps that show in the task switching view. BlackBerry calls them active frames or active panels or whatever.

    The Z3, with 1.5GB of RAM, can only have 4 of those minimized apps at once. With Jolla Sailfish, I've had over 20 of them at once and that phone only has 1GB of RAM.
    11-27-14 07:12 PM
  18. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    For a comparison, the first commercially released Jolla Sailfish phone has a dual-core 1.4 GHz snapdragon 400 processor and only 1GB of RAM, yet it effortlessly handles having 20+ open apps running all at once.
    To be fair, the Snapdragon 400 in the Jolla is faster than the CPU in the Z30. Qualcomm was really messy with the Snapdragon numbering and not all 400s use the same type of cores. All the while, the 600 class largely falls into disuse.
    Witmen likes this.
    11-27-14 07:46 PM
  19. Carterbits's Avatar
    Wow... I stand corrected. It is true. Instead of using 128 for FSB, they used 64 for FSB there by feeding each core 32 bits. That blows. What gets me is that the tech has been around since 2011 and mobile devices never took advantage of it from what it looks like.

    Thanks for the read. Very informative.

    Posted via CB10
    Please go read this (especially the 4th paragraph) for you are very confused:

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/64-bit

    The data bus widths have no bearing on processor core bitness, which is all about processor register architecture.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    11-27-14 08:02 PM
  20. eddy_berry's Avatar
    I am only talking about the minimized apps that show in the task switching view. BlackBerry calls them active frames or active panels or whatever.

    The Z3, with 1.5GB of RAM, can only have 4 of those minimized apps at once. With Jolla Sailfish, I've had over 20 of them at once and that phone only has 1GB of RAM.
    Is the Jolla Sailfish truly running all 20 apps at the same time? I'm pretty sure it just suspends the app and keeps it in a very low memory state. Which is great no doubt, but BlackBerry limits the amount of frames because they can all be operational at the same time including headless apps. Updating feeds, playing music or whatever. Only Android apps pause when in the active framed state, but that is the way the Android runtime works.
    11-27-14 08:21 PM
  21. Witmen's Avatar
    Is the Jolla Sailfish truly running all 20 apps at the same time? I'm pretty sure it just suspends the app and keeps it in a very low memory state. Which is great no doubt, but BlackBerry limits the amount of frames because they can all be operational at the same time including headless apps. Updating feeds, playing music or whatever. Only Android apps pause when in the active framed state, but that is the way the Android runtime works.
    They are all left singing and dancing. Including multiple audio streams mashed up together if the situation arises. The way Sailfish OS multitasks is very similar to how the PlayBook did. With sailfish, you can actually watch the apps run.

    Doesn't the PlayBook only have 1GB of RAM also? Kind of crazy how the PlayBook wasn't limited to no more than 8 apps at once like BB10 devices are. The PlayBook would eventually close apps on its own, but it usually took over a dozen apps to get to that point.
    11-27-14 08:35 PM
  22. grahamf's Avatar
    Is the Jolla Sailfish truly running all 20 apps at the same time? I'm pretty sure it just suspends the app and keeps it in a very low memory state. Which is great no doubt, but BlackBerry limits the amount of frames because they can all be operational at the same time including headless apps. Updating feeds, playing music or whatever. Only Android apps pause when in the active framed state, but that is the way the Android runtime works.
    This. Android and iOS use very aggressive memory management which will pause and cache any application that isn't in use. I imagine Jolla would be the same. Plus can you imagine how badly the phone would perform if 20+ applications were really running at the same time? Not even a Windows computer could do that without noticeable performance drops.
    11-27-14 08:38 PM
  23. Witmen's Avatar
    This. Android and iOS use very aggressive memory management which will pause and cache any application that isn't in use. I imagine Jolla would be the same. Plus can you imagine how badly the phone would perform if 20+ applications were really running at the same time? Not even a Windows computer could do that without noticeable performance drops.
    Why not try Sailfish for yourself instead of just imagining that it behaves like iOS and Android or performs badly while multitasking? You know, some people actually have real world experience with the devices they talk about instead of just making assumptions. But oh well I guess.
    11-27-14 08:59 PM
  24. eddy_berry's Avatar
    They are all left singing and dancing. Including multiple audio streams mashed up together if the situation arises. The way Sailfish OS multitasks is very similar to how the PlayBook did. With sailfish, you can actually watch the apps run.

    Doesn't the PlayBook only have 1GB of RAM also? Kind of crazy how the PlayBook wasn't limited to no more than 8 apps at once like BB10 devices are. The PlayBook would eventually close apps on its own, but it usually took over a dozen apps to get to that point.
    That's impressive. I guess I should take a closer look. I just can't wrap my head around how it does this with only 1GB of RAM. Does it stutter at all when doing this crazy feat of multitasking? If you open the browser and start browsing websites will it still run without a hiccup? Perhaps I'll just look it up.
    11-27-14 09:12 PM
  25. Witmen's Avatar
    That's impressive. I guess I should take a closer look. I just can't wrap my head around how it does this with only 1GB of RAM. Does it stutter at all when doing this crazy feat of multitasking? If you open the browser and start browsing websites will it still run without a hiccup? Perhaps I'll just look it up.
    Like anything else, it performs better with less things going on. There is nothing saying a person has to leave that many apps open. It is optional. It will run better with only 4 or 8 apps open at a time than with 20 apps open, but having the option is nice.
    11-27-14 09:31 PM
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