01-28-11 07:54 AM
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  1. blazed12's Avatar
    No not racist....lol im black so it was just meant to be a joke. Was just tryin to show just how bad i want this device.......sorry if anyone thought it was offensive
    Oh nah you're cool.. I'm just saying some people might get offended with your comment that's why I suggest editing it

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-26-11 10:25 PM
  2. Rello's Avatar
    Oh nah you're cool.. I'm just saying some people might get offended with your comment that's why I suggest editing it

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    lol i gotcha pimpin.....changed it. good lookin out. im sure someone would've took it the wrong way
    01-26-11 11:26 PM
  3. lssanjose's Avatar

    MY 8900 loses more appeal everyday lol. It freezes when i look at it sometimes...and i have over 100 MB of free RAM on it

    Talk about a death stare
    01-27-11 12:58 AM
  4. Rootbrian's Avatar
    @rello a battery pull would do it.

    also, I won't take anything as valid until those said devices are released. Plain and simple.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-27-11 03:00 AM
  5. The_Engine's Avatar
    ...I also find it funny that the first dual core phones being released have much bigger OEM batteries than any phone previously released...i believe. I know battery life is important to RIM, then no matter how much coding they do im sure they'll still need a larger battery just in case. i don't think it was coincidental that Motorola did it.
    I think in this case it was more about the LTE radio and the drain of 4G. Motor went with lower voltage RAM (ddr2), Lower voltage CPU (Tegra 2), and a Big *** Battery (1900+ MAH). So I think they just wanted do the elvel best to get a day out of the device. Also the Screen on the bionic/Atrix is very high Res
    But then again......

    Mayb thats where the Marvell 628 processor comes in because the dual core processors that are powering the Bionic, and Atrix don't have a small 628 Mhz core to utilize for basic tasks, and if im correct, I don't think the other two 1.5 Ghz cores run at all until they're needed. i would imagine that would save a good deal of battery. What u think?

    I remember u asking CX if the Marvell 628 was still on track for a Q2 release, but he never answered u. lol a little clarification from him would be wonderful right about now ha ha
    Since the CPU's should scale to what is needed i am not sure why the 624 mhz cpu does. Unless it is on a lower voltage or something. Wouldn't the 1.5 ghz cpus only run at the MHZ that they need to? Certainly interesting, but I guess we'll see. I wasn't expecting a response from CX, but I certainly question his info now. Of course the way stuff is moving now, someone could have had prototypes running that chip, but abandoned it.[/quote]

    Big difference in what you can do for power and power management in a tablet vs.the cramped space of a mobile phone. They also have to do it in a way that won't drive the cost through the roof.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    This is true. And the Tablet form factor allows more options. Still, seems to me like talking out both sides of their mouth as they say.
    01-27-11 07:20 AM
  6. Rello's Avatar
    Talk about a death stare
    Lol man I be wantin to throw my phone up against a wall sometimes, but then I realize that I still need a phone ha
    01-27-11 09:04 AM
  7. Rello's Avatar
    @rello a battery pull would do it.

    also, I won't take anything as valid until those said devices are released. Plain and simple.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Ha come on dawg........give me a lil credit lol. I pull my baterry all the time. It helps sometimes don't get me wrong, but then I'll open the browser and right when I start to do somethin, it'll freeze and its stuck like that for a good 30 seconds. 30 seconds is an eternity when u really want to use somethin lol

    I can't take it no more. 528 mhz isn't enough. I bought my girl a 9700 and she says hers freezes occasionally to (yeah she has a better device than me )

    I want a QNX device but I'm hoping the Playbook can tide me move.....then again, running a playbook on edge speeds from my 8900 when I'm not around wifi is gonna make me wanna punch babies in the face lol
    01-27-11 09:20 AM
  8. sleepngbear's Avatar
    also, I won't take anything as valid until those said devices are released. Plain and simple.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Uh, if any of these companies are worth a hoot, they won't be releasing any devices with those issues. So it's quite likely you'll never find any validity to any of these claims. The point of the article in the OP's post is that someone else is facing those issues now in the testing of new, unreleased devices. RIM says it's one of the reasons they're not releasing any 'super-phones' right now (and everybody called Shenanigans). Someone else now makes the claim that the same issues are being faced with new dual-core phones, never once mentioning RIM and totally independent of anything RIM is doing. Nobody's saying it's proof positive, but it sure does lend some credibility to RIM's statements, specifically that they don't feel the technology is where it needs to be yet to put dual-core processors in phones. That's it, plain and simple. You can believe it or not; or maybe they're just all in cahoots to screw BB users everywhere.
    01-27-11 10:03 AM
  9. Skeevecr's Avatar
    I guess what I was trying to say was if battery life really was holding them off from using dual-core processors, then would waiting really give them an edge in battery life??? Because a lot of people make the argument that the dual cores out now are efficient because they spend less time doing a task, thus saving energy. Again, thats not personal belief as I have no expertise in that area, im just repeating what i've read on some blogs...
    What they might mean is that they expect to see similar progress in power consumption from subsequent dual-core processors just like the latest snapdragons use less power than the ones that were first released.
    01-27-11 10:47 AM
  10. Skeevecr's Avatar
    Didn't anyone find it odd that RIM is going to market with a dual core tablet but stating that dual core chips are not evolved enough yet and are not efficient enough for rims standards.

    Hello? So then what is the chip in the playbook? Maybe I am wrong but it is a TI A9 chip which is basically a cell phone proc, right?

    And then the best part is that when there are rumors of poor battery life on the PB, RIM says that isn't the case (meanwhile wasn't their a screen shot of the PB showing like 98% battery and 4 hrs left?).

    So what is it? Either dual cores mean battery issues or they don't? From and engineering perspective it seems like dual core should lead to better battery.
    The obvious difference is the size of battery in the playbook compared with even larger smartphone batteries, a fair amount of that is to power the larger display, but it is going to help out with the higher power demands of the dual-core processors too.
    01-27-11 10:51 AM
  11. The_Engine's Avatar
    The obvious difference is the size of battery in the playbook compared with even larger smartphone batteries, a fair amount of that is to power the larger display, but it is going to help out with the higher power demands of the dual-core processors too.
    But that is the thing. Dual core ships should require the same or less power. That is one of the appeals of dual core.

    Don't think about it as 2 ghz of processing. It is 2 1 ghz processors so the point is that they can divide the work and run at lower speeds to get tasks done. Also most of the dual cores are lower voltage. ( at least the Tegra 2 is)

    At least this is how a lot of folks have explained it on various blogs and sites.
    01-27-11 11:10 AM
  12. avt123's Avatar
    It's funny to see Engadget say that shipping with bugs doesn't really matter. Jim Balsillie said that the nature of smartphones having to come to market faster would lead to devices shipping with issues when the Storm was released and the blogs got in a major tizzy. Now they are using his words to defend other products.
    Where do they say this? The whole article is about bugs on UNRELEASED devices.

    Didn't Jim say to expect bugs on RELEASED devices? If so, there is a big difference.

    None of this really matters, though. The problem -- the reason we're not reporting this as a straight rumor -- is because bugs on unreleased phones, whether they turn out to be real or not, don't matter. This device isn't in your hands, and the manufacturer doesn't intend to let it ship with a fundamental flaw that makes the phone unusable.
    01-27-11 11:17 AM
  13. sf49ers's Avatar
    But that is the thing. Dual core ships should require the same or less power. That is one of the appeals of dual core.

    Don't think about it as 2 ghz of processing. It is 2 1 ghz processors so the point is that they can divide the work and run at lower speeds to get tasks done. Also most of the dual cores are lower voltage. ( at least the Tegra 2 is)

    At least this is how a lot of folks have explained it on various blogs and sites.
    Dual Core is power efficient only when they are optimized, it should come from both the OS and Processor. Also it is only efficient when your current processing needs exceed the current barrier of 1Ghz otherwise you will end running two cores for irrelevant tasks that would cause a battery drain.

    Also the amount of performance gained by the use of a multi-core processor depends very much on the software algorithms and implementation. Using a dual core will simply not boost the performance out of the box, the load has to distributed evenly and the OS and the program should have logic behind it.
    01-27-11 11:28 AM
  14. iN8ter's Avatar
    Dual Core is power efficient only when they are optimized, it should come from both the OS and Processor. Also it is only efficient when your current processing needs exceed the current barrier of 1Ghz otherwise you will end running two cores for irrelevant tasks that would cause a battery drain.

    Also the amount of performance gained by the use of a multi-core processor depends very much on the software algorithms and implementation. Using a dual core will simply not boost the performance out of the box, the load has to distributed evenly and the OS and the program should have logic behind it.
    The second paragraph is somewhat correct in a couple places.

    The first paragraph is laughable. You don't know how these things work, apparently.

    A multi-threaded application can run one thread on each core, and each core can run at 600MHz if that's all it needs. Since the entire SoC drains less power than a single core chip, it saves battery. It also produces less heat, because for single threaded applications you'll be running on one core that is equivalent to current gen processors, but draining less power and producing less heat.

    Dual Core processors are a win through and though.

    Heat, Power, Efficiency, etc.

    Also, if you get stuff done faster, your phone goes to sleep faster which over the course of a day can amount to a factorable amount of power savings and extra heat dissipation.

    Using Dual Core will boost perfomance out of the box as long as the OS supports SMP. Even if the application doesn't support SMP, the phone will be able to run entire applications on different cores without having to worry about priorities and things of that nature. It will boost performance the same way performance was boosted in the 90s on Multi-Processor Systems back then (before Dual COREs existed, high end motherboards came with 2+ processor slots and people would run Dual XEON system in high end gaming RIGs, etc. for this very reason, and then there are dual graphics cards, etc.).

    Running 2 things on 2 1GHz processors (cores) is faster and more efficient than running 2 things on 1 1.2 GHz processor, and definitely drains less power since the other core can be shut off when not in use, or clocked down by the system. The processors also use more efficient manufacturing, as well. This is especially true when paired with a decent GPU and fast RAM.

    The 1.2Ghz processors being used today and probably nothing more than factory overclocked 1GHz processors...

    The dual cores are wholly different beasts.
    Last edited by N8ter; 01-27-11 at 12:03 PM.
    The_Engine likes this.
    01-27-11 11:57 AM
  15. sf49ers's Avatar
    The second paragraph is somewhat correct in a couple places.

    The first paragraph is laughable. You don't know how these things work, apparently.

    A multi-threaded application can run one thread on each core, and each core can run at 600MHz if that's all it needs. Since the entire SoC drains less power than a single core chip, it saves battery. It also produces less heat, because for single threaded applications you'll be running on one core that is equivalent to current gen processors, but draining less power and producing less heat.

    Dual Core processors are a win through and though.

    Heat, Power, Efficiency, etc.

    Also, if you get stuff done faster, your phone goes to sleep faster which over the course of a day can amount to a factorable amount of power savings and extra heat dissipation.

    Using Dual Core will boost perfomance out of the box as long as the OS supports SMP. Even if the application doesn't support SMP, the phone will be able to run entire applications on different cores without having to worry about priorities and things of that nature. It will boost performance the same way performance was boosted in the 90s on Multi-Processor Systems back then (before Dual COREs existed, high end motherboards came with 2+ processor slots and people would run Dual XEON system in high end gaming RIGs, etc. for this very reason, and then there are dual graphics cards, etc.).

    Running 2 things on 2 1GHz processors (cores) is faster and more efficient than running 2 things on 1 1.2 GHz processor, and definitely drains less power since the other core can be shut off when not in use, or clocked down by the system. The processors also use more efficient manufacturing, as well. This is especially true when paired with a decent GPU and fast RAM.

    The 1.2Ghz processors being used today and probably nothing more than factory overclocked 1GHz processors...

    The dual cores are wholly different beasts.
    That's all good in theory, first, the workload has to be "thread-able". Then there's overhead for synchronization. I don't recall ever seeing any benchmarks showing a dual-core chip doing work with less power than a single core one.

    ARM A9 uses Out of order architecture/processing also requires more power although with improved efficiency. Also latest Dual cores come additional things which are power guzzlers and not needed on a phone for example 1080p video on a 4" screen etc. What matters is how advanced is processor's power management? If this thing can shut down a core, under clock, and undervolt itself when needed then it will be a big plus.

    RIM is more concerned about the latter part. The other concerns being the additional costs by adding a Dual core like memory, battery, additional ports etc..
    The_Engine likes this.
    01-27-11 12:43 PM
  16. T.roy's Avatar
    It's funny to see Engadget say that shipping with bugs doesn't really matter. Jim Balsillie said that the nature of smartphones having to come to market faster would lead to devices shipping with issues when the Storm was released and the blogs got in a major tizzy. Now they are using his words to defend other products.
    Not only that. The Xoom is supposed to launch in Feb but Moto said in the Q&A that it might slip into March. Can you image the howls of outrage and doom if RIM said they were launching in March and then said "but it might not be until April."

    OMG Fail!!
    RIm sucks
    Rim is declining
    The next Palm.
    Losing market share

    Would make for a good chuckle at those type peoples expense though.
    01-27-11 01:00 PM
  17. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Ha come on dawg........give me a lil credit lol. I pull my baterry all the time. It helps sometimes don't get me wrong, but then I'll open the browser and right when I start to do somethin, it'll freeze and its stuck like that for a good 30 seconds. 30 seconds is an eternity when u really want to use somethin lol

    I can't take it no more. 528 mhz isn't enough. I bought my girl a 9700 and she says hers freezes occasionally to (yeah she has a better device than me )

    I want a QNX device but I'm hoping the Playbook can tide me move.....then again, running a playbook on edge speeds from my 8900 when I'm not around wifi is gonna make me wanna punch babies in the face lol
    Ever clean the cache and history in the browser? I've seen mine take up 4-5mb and I clean it regularly.
    01-27-11 01:25 PM
  18. iN8ter's Avatar
    That's all good in theory, first, the workload has to be "thread-able". Then there's overhead for synchronization. I don't recall ever seeing any benchmarks showing a dual-core chip doing work with less power than a single core one.
    Again, you're not reading what I wrote. A single processor can handle a multi-threaded application just fine. But a dual core processor can run two separate applications more efficiently because it can run them both on different cores, and the dual core processors are simply more efficient than single core processors.

    It only gets better when applications are coded to utilize the multiple core, but there are out of the box benefits as long as the operating system supports SMP.

    ARM A9 uses Out of order architecture/processing also requires more power although with improved efficiency. Also latest Dual cores come additional things which are power guzzlers and not needed on a phone for example 1080p video on a 4" screen etc. What matters is how advanced is processor's power management? If this thing can shut down a core, under clock, and undervolt itself when needed then it will be a big plus.
    The 1080p is needed if you want to stream video via mHDMI to a 1080p display, or play it to that display via DLNA. Blackberries don't currently support DLNA, but Galaxy S and Motorola Android devices do. That's why 720p Recording and Playback is important on those devices.

    There are no 1080p smartphone displays. There are WVGA and QHD displays (and Nokia's odd resolution), but no phone comes with a 1280x720 (720p) much less a 1080p display. The 1080p support is to play the content on the phone, or stream it to other devices via DLNA. Do you know how terrible WVGA/QHD video would look on a big wide-screen 1080p television much less a large computer monitor?

    This power management is already there in current multi-core processors.

    That's what the issue is. RIM is stonewalling customers giving them excuses when all of that is there already. The technology exists. Theyr'e using it in teh playbook. Tons of Android smartphone/tablet manufacturers are already using it, yet you're going to wait until 2012 for this technology to be used in Blackberry smartphones. The issue is none of that. It's cost. If those were issues for them, they wouldn't be releasing a playbook right now...

    The reason why the Playbook is being developed is because the cost can be kept in check initially (in the WiFi and 4G models) by ditching components like Cell/3G radios, etc.) and we all know the baseline cost of this device is only for the 16 GB model, which is not a lot of you have a lot of media and take lots of photos/videos.

    RIM is more concerned about the latter part. The other concerns being the additional costs by adding a Dual core like memory, battery, additional ports etc..
    RIM is more concerned about cost. All the rest of that is fluff and excuses. There are other manufacturers who are getting by just find on a fourth of RIM's margins using current hardware. In September of this year they're going to be releasing phones with specs comparable to phones like the HD2 and Nexus One that were released in late 2009/early 2010. That's inexcusable considering the prices they charge for their devices and how bad they are outside of business (and only good in business due to BES device policies, every other phone is just as good in messaging/email these days).
    Last edited by N8ter; 01-27-11 at 01:46 PM.
    01-27-11 01:38 PM
  19. sf49ers's Avatar
    Tablet is a different beast altogether and cannot be compared to a phone. I highly doubt even if iPhone 5 will sport a dual core although iPad will have one.

    RIM's rumored devices are appealing and definitely have higher specs than what we have seen last year or so far this year. Dual core's aren't that expensive and they cost somewhere between $15-$25 but the still the main concerns about battery life, size, cost lingers until next year or so..
    01-27-11 03:14 PM
  20. Rello's Avatar
    Since the CPU's should scale to what is needed i am not sure why the 624 mhz cpu does. Unless it is on a lower voltage or something. Wouldn't the 1.5 ghz cpus only run at the MHZ that they need to? Certainly interesting, but I guess we'll see. I wasn't expecting a response from CX, but I certainly question his info now. Of course the way stuff is moving now, someone could have had prototypes running that chip, but abandoned it.
    U know what, I honestly don't know that one. The articles i read simply stated that the two 1.5 Ghz cores completely turned off if they weren't needed. I would assume that they would only run at the mhz needed though especially if Marvell is claiming "ultra-low power consumption"

    I kinda question whether that processor is coming in Q2 as well........i went to Marvell's website and i still dont see the 628 on there
    01-27-11 05:04 PM
  21. Rello's Avatar
    Ever clean the cache and history in the browser? I've seen mine take up 4-5mb and I clean it regularly.
    No sir'......i mean, I've done it before but i don't do it on the regular.

    But damn lol, I go and use the app switcher to close out every app i have open and then use the memory cleaner and i've seen that get me back like 10+MB but it'll still freeze some days. Not permanently, but 30 seconds can still seem like an eternity when u want to get something done lol
    01-27-11 05:09 PM
  22. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    No sir'......i mean, I've done it before but i don't do it on the regular.

    But damn lol, I go and use the app switcher to close out every app i have open and then use the memory cleaner and i've seen that get me back like 10+MB but it'll still freeze some days. Not permanently, but 30 seconds can still seem like an eternity when u want to get something done lol
    Maybe it's time for a new blackberry, one that has 3G this time? lol
    01-27-11 05:14 PM
  23. Rello's Avatar
    Maybe it's time for a new blackberry, one that has 3G this time? lol
    I couldn't agree with u more lol. I'm on edge in 2011 SMH.......................

    thanks to RIM though i'll probably have to wait till middle of this year. YAY!!!
    01-27-11 09:17 PM
  24. WillieLee's Avatar
    Where do they say this? The whole article is about bugs on UNRELEASED devices.

    Didn't Jim say to expect bugs on RELEASED devices? If so, there is a big difference.
    The Atrix is being released without some of its video features and will be enabled through a software update at an unspecified time. That is also treated with a blase attitude. They reviewed the Samsung S series phone and never mentioned the lack of GPS until it was pointed out that it was not operational by readers. The Droid X was given a glowing review despite some major bugs.

    The notion that smartphones will launch with bugs is now accepted. While this article deals with prerelease bugs, there's a good chance they will still be present at launch.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-28-11 07:45 AM
  25. avt123's Avatar
    The Atrix is being released without some of its video features and will be enabled through a software update at an unspecified time. That is also treated with a blase attitude. They reviewed the Samsung S series phone and never mentioned the lack of GPS until it was pointed out that it was not operational by readers. The Droid X was given a glowing review despite some major bugs.

    The notion that smartphones will launch with bugs is now accepted. While this article deals with prerelease bugs, there's a good chance they will still be present at launch.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Yes, but nowhere in the article does it say "shipping with bugs doesn't matter", like you originally said.

    The Atrix is getting a software update for 1080p, but it can do 720p before the update. That is not a bug, that is just not having the software perfect for 1080p, so they are excluding it so there isn't a bug.

    I didn't experience any bugs when I bought my DX and I bought it on release day. I know there were some problems with Exchange, but I do not use it so I didn't experience anything.

    I think smartphones releasing with bugs is more expected than accepted. The manufacturers may accept it, but the consumers will still *****. We have just come to expect most technology to not be perfect out of the box.
    01-28-11 07:54 AM
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