1. Stewartj1's Avatar
    07-03-12 02:17 PM
  2. lnichols's Avatar
    Just in a can't deliver product spiral.
    Moonbase0ne and the_sleuth like this.
    07-03-12 02:49 PM
  3. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    I like Heins. He seems to be a decent manager overall, and I've been impressed with his appearances at RIM events. He seems to have a fair grip on what needs to be done here.

    ...but when he makes these high-profile appearances, I really wish he'd pay just a little more attention to his messaging. He can talk for a half-hour about how he understands the position RIM is in, and the challenges the company faces, but one simple little line like "there's nothing wrong with the company as it exists now" wipes out in seconds any credibility he's earned with the casual observer.

    And you know who says "we're not in a death-spiral"? Someone who's trying desperately to convince you they're not in a death-spiral.
    07-03-12 02:57 PM
  4. cgk's Avatar
    I like Heins. He seems to be a decent manager overall, and I've been impressed with his appearances at RIM events. He seems to have a fair grip on what needs to be done here.

    ...but when he makes these high-profile appearances, I really wish he'd pay just a little more attention to his messaging. He can talk for a half-hour about how he understands the position RIM is in, and the challenges the company faces, but one simple little line like "there's nothing wrong with the company as it exists now" wipes out in seconds any credibility he's earned with the casual observer.

    And you know who says "we're not in a death-spiral"? Someone who's trying desperately to convince you they're not in a death-spiral.
    I mentioned this very thing on another thread - his PR handlers need replacing because they should be advising him on what to say and what not to say in an interview - the only message going around the world after this is "Rim denies death spiral".
    07-03-12 03:04 PM
  5. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Yes, it's frustrating, because he really CAN go on at length with a very realistic sense of the company's current situation. Nobody's going to pay attention, though, because of these careless, off-the-cuff zingers.
    07-03-12 03:12 PM
  6. silversun10's Avatar
    of course Heins would say that, and he is probably right, and maybe not, but he has seen BB10 and most of us have not, so at this point you have to defer to him
    07-03-12 03:14 PM
  7. dandbj13's Avatar
    So what is it called when the front of a plane is pointed straight down, and headed for the ground at terminal velocity, but not spiraling. I no there's a term for that.
    07-03-12 03:50 PM
  8. cgk's Avatar
    07-03-12 03:59 PM
  9. johnenglish's Avatar
    So what is it called when the front of a plane is pointed straight down, and headed for the ground at terminal velocity, but not spiraling. I no there's a term for that.
    "There's nothing wrong with the plane as it exists right now." of course, that doesn't say anything about the direction it's headed.
    Last edited by JohnEnglish; 07-03-12 at 04:14 PM.
    kevinnugent likes this.
    07-03-12 04:11 PM
  10. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Now, is it my imagination, or are a lot of people really, really enjoying RIM's "non-death-spiral"?

    I'll admit, I didn't really hang around the WebOS forums, but I had the distinct impression most people felt genuinely bad about Palm flaming out. Here? Some posts suggest rabid hecklers laughing their a$$es off as they munch their popcorn...

    More curious than offended, and maybe I'm completely off base, but is there something about RIM that just brings this out in some people?
    sf49ers likes this.
    07-03-12 05:27 PM
  11. johnenglish's Avatar
    It's your imagination.

    Over promising with underdelivering + incredibly short sighted management + fanboys who criticize other platform users for being blind followers yet they refuse to admit that RIM is in serious trouble and it's all a media conspiracy = tragic comedy

    If you can't see the humour in RIM continually saying "No, this time it'll be different honestly." and all the people who say "No, guys, they mean it. Why does no one believe them?" then I don't know what to say.
    07-03-12 07:06 PM
  12. the_sleuth's Avatar
    Yes, Thor comes across as Don Quixote. Here's the problem: the latest delay has opened a Pandora's Box of more negative news. Thor and the other senior management can say what they want but they are not in front of this story and no longer control the message. They need to bring a crisis manager and a big gun PR firm from the U.S.

    Now Thor and company lack integrity and do not instill confidence. The stock price is the ultimate barometer of sentiment and it's down again today.
    07-03-12 07:30 PM
  13. Moonbase0ne's Avatar
    He actually reminds me of CB kevin with a lot of his stories about how RIM isn't really doing as bad as it may seem.
    07-03-12 07:37 PM
  14. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    It's your imagination.

    Over promising with underdelivering + incredibly short sighted management + fanboys who criticize other platform users for being blind followers yet they refuse to admit that RIM is in serious trouble and it's all a media conspiracy = tragic comedy

    If you can't see the humour in RIM continually saying "No, this time it'll be different honestly." and all the people who say "No, guys, they mean it. Why does no one believe them?" then I don't know what to say.
    Yeah, I know, I know, that whole "definition of insanity" thing.

    If RIM is incapable of delivering BB10, and management knows it now, Heins should be on the phone to Ballmer immediately. I've gone over scenarios on this, and I can easily see a RIM-branded WP8 with NOC and BBM access. MS could take a 40% share, and could make the software side of it work by the end of the year, or shortly after.

    I'm hoping that RIM isn't running on sentiment. If the scenario I describe could be fairly assessed as a preferable future to anything that relies on BB10, RIM should jump at it. If they're not going that way, I can only hope it's because they really believe in what they're cooking up on their own.
    07-03-12 07:40 PM
  15. the_sleuth's Avatar
    This PhotoShop of Thor reminds me of R.E.M.'s song, "Shiny Happy People" or "It's the End of the World as we know it, and I feel fine."

    Shlooky likes this.
    07-03-12 07:45 PM
  16. h20work's Avatar
    It's your imagination.

    Over promising with underdelivering + incredibly short sighted management + fanboys who criticize other platform users for being blind followers yet they refuse to admit that RIM is in serious trouble and it's all a media conspiracy = tragic comedy

    If you can't see the humour in RIM continually saying "No, this time it'll be different honestly." and all the people who say "No, guys, they mean it. Why does no one believe them?" then I don't know what to say.
    Off topic, are you the same johnenglish from myg37?

    On topic, Heins really needs to show that he's in control of the situation. Enough with the canned responses, tell it like it is. Yes, I'm aware they don't want to show all of their cards right now, but as far as the general public is concerned they are doomed. I had 2 pb's with me on a flight yesterday, the guy next to me asked "what tablet is that?" I replied with "it's a blackberry playbook" to which he responded with "aren't they going out of business?"

    That's not the first time that has happened to me.....
    Thunderbuck likes this.
    07-03-12 07:47 PM
  17. ADGrant's Avatar
    Now, is it my imagination, or are a lot of people really, really enjoying RIM's "non-death-spiral"?

    I'll admit, I didn't really hang around the WebOS forums, but I had the distinct impression most people felt genuinely bad about Palm flaming out. Here? Some posts suggest rabid hecklers laughing their a$$es off as they munch their popcorn...

    More curious than offended, and maybe I'm completely off base, but is there something about RIM that just brings this out in some people?
    The WebOS forums were pretty much the same as these forums now are. It's nothing to do with RIM itself, it's more to do with RIMs more enthusiastic fans. Some people refuse to acknowledge RIMs very real problems and other people enjoy pointing those problems out to the first group. Both groups think the other group should "get a life". It's called human nature.
    JeepBB likes this.
    07-03-12 10:01 PM
  18. Blacklatino's Avatar
    I too, remember the WebOS forums. It's definitely on par with this one at times. I see it on both sides. Banner Carriers that want to defend any and all things RIM. Then there's a mixture of former BlackBerry Owners and others. Both sides calling the others a troll and talking ish about the others device of choice- whether BlackBerry, iPhone, Android, etc. People stopped drinking the koolaid (and paying attention) when a former employee let it be known(thru BGR) that BB10 was not ready back in Dec. '11. Ok, we're not newbies, and most really didn't believe that RIM had made a complete change. LOL, we still bought the OS7 devices to hold us over until the BB10 devices dropped.....even after the disclaimer that the devices were "dead -men walking" compared to the new BB10s. Glad I didn't listen to the BS and not buy one because I'm still enjoying mine. IMO, everytime RIM takes one step forward now....they stumble back five. I still hope that they can make it and weather the storm. My words may sound harsh to some, but, it's reality to me.

    Sent from my Sexy BlackBerry 9810 on Mecca's Delta Prime Hybrid using Tapatalk (*_~)
    07-03-12 10:41 PM
  19. phoreoneone's Avatar
    Man I hope rim comes out swinging with bb10 just so all these haters can realize why I have been excited this entire time
    07-04-12 12:24 AM
  20. cgk's Avatar
    Oh no, lots of people enjoyed Webos going down.

    Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express
    07-04-12 12:30 AM
  21. JeepBB's Avatar
    If RIM is incapable of delivering BB10, and management knows it now, Heins should be on the phone to Ballmer immediately.
    This is the key phrase, and I believe the problem is that every time Management asks; Thor's engineers are telling him that they are capable of delivering BB10, so Management sit on their hands and wait for BB10 to emerge.

    I don't doubt the Engineers at all when they say they are capable of delivering BB10 because I do respect their skills, they aren't incompetent or deluded. They really can do it!

    Unfortunately, the caveat that RIM's Engineers fail to mention whenever they have these conversations with Thor is that they need enough time in which they can build BB10. And I don't believe that they have enough time left anymore. Their usual escape route would be to slip the BB10 date further into 2013, but that door has firmly closed.
    07-04-12 03:00 AM
  22. TGR1's Avatar
    If RIM is incapable of delivering BB10, and management knows it now, Heins should be on the phone to Ballmer immediately.
    This may well already have happened no one here knows or will spill if they did. Unlikely, though, IMO except maybe at a very general level. I think RIM is trying hard to retain its identity and will exhaust those options first.
    I've gone over scenarios on this, and I can easily see a RIM-branded WP8 with NOC and BBM access.
    I don't know about BBM. Microsoft is a highly successful software company with huge pride in its own software. I can see them writing their own versions before adapting RIM's, that will hook BB software to the Windows ecosystem. They have been very consistent in their behavior.
    07-04-12 07:51 AM
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