06-04-12 09:14 PM
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  1. qbnkelt's Avatar
    It works both ways. Optimists don't have the b*lls to face reality.

    How about those who like to look at things realistically and try not to be swayed by emotions?
    Really? It's a good thing that a certain visionary was quite optimistic...he certainly had the b@lls to stand up to his convictions.

    Optimism and Enthusiasm: Lessons for Scientists from Steve Jobs | Guest Blog, Scientific American Blog Network

    Because realism rejects the visionary

    Definition of REALISM

    1
    : concern for fact or reality and rejection of the impractical and visionary

    Good thing that Steve opted for optimism and vision.

    Im an optimist in the sense that I believe humans are noble and honorable, and some of them are really smart. I have a very optimistic view of individuals. As individuals, people are inherently good. I have a somewhat more pessimistic view of people in groups. And I remain extremely concerned when I see whats happening in our country, which is in many ways the luckiest place in the world. We dont seem to be excited about making our country a better place for our kids. - Steve Jobs
    Your work is going to fill a large part of your life, and the only way to be truly satisfied is to do what you believe is great work. And the only way to do great work is to love what you do. If you havent found it yet, keep looking. Dont settle. As with all matters of the heart, youll know when you find it. And, like any great relationship, it just gets better and better as the years roll on. So keep looking until you find it. Dont settle. - Steve Jobs

    While there is only one Steve Jobs and by definition there isn't one at RIM, I am optimistic in that they are working towards success.

    Really, given a choice in seeing only what is in front of me and rejecting the possibilities of hope, I stand firmly on the possibility of hope and optimism.

    I would rather be a Pollyanna than to be a bitter old broad....like so many of the usual suspects on this forum.
    ekv likes this.
    06-04-12 04:50 AM
  2. qbnkelt's Avatar
    I strongly disagree with your views. I'll leave it at that...
    It's OK love.
    I'm optimistic that it's not personal.
    06-04-12 04:51 AM
  3. berklon's Avatar
    Really? It's a good thing that a certain visionary was quite optimistic...he certainly had the b@lls to stand up to his convictions.
    And there are many who were optimistic in the face of adversity and lost... big time. Just because it worked for Steve Jobs doesn't mean it'll work for everyone. There are many things you can't control in life - no matter how optimistic you are. And at the end of it all - did his optimism beat cancer? Like I said - optimism can only get you so far.

    In RIM's case, you can be optimistic all you want (and so can RIM) but the realistic way to look at things are that they're in trouble and the odds of pulling out of this nose-dive are very low. If you think they'll turn it around - go buy a ton of their stocks. Optimistic Leaf fans should put all their money on a bet that they're going to win the cup next year too.
    06-04-12 08:17 AM
  4. southlander's Avatar
    There are many things you can't control in life - no matter how optimistic you are.
    People are generally always capable of doing more than they first estimate they can. It takes great leaders to help them realize this and thus their potential. It's not really about control. It's about not giving up.
    06-04-12 08:44 AM
  5. anthogag's Avatar
    for folks in countries where it's the norm to have more than 150 BBM contacts and belong to several groups, the 9810 hourglasses like mad.

    From RIM's point of view, the 9810 (and OS7) is outdated. Why else would they hold an event with lots of good developer love for BB 10 and zilch for OS7? There's a 3D GPU in your 9810...did you see any game announcements for your device? , not even Angry Birds!

    You might have some kind of bug that gives you hour glasses. Do you get the message "uncaught exception..." when you reboot your phone. There are people with more than 1000 BBM contacts

    BB10 is definitely the phone RIM badly needs out now. I still don't consider my 9810 to be outdated, email, web browsing, messaging, call quality, etc is still really good
    06-04-12 09:00 AM
  6. undone's Avatar
    And there are many who were optimistic in the face of adversity and lost... big time. Just because it worked for Steve Jobs doesn't mean it'll work for everyone. There are many things you can't control in life - no matter how optimistic you are. And at the end of it all - did his optimism beat cancer? Like I said - optimism can only get you so far.

    In RIM's case, you can be optimistic all you want (and so can RIM) but the realistic way to look at things are that they're in trouble and the odds of pulling out of this nose-dive are very low. If you think they'll turn it around - go buy a ton of their stocks. Optimistic Leaf fans should put all their money on a bet that they're going to win the cup next year too.
    There is no winning this argument really. The problem is people BELIEVE in their side of the coin. You'd have a better chance parting the red sea then changing someones beliefs.

    Now an idea, that can change. Heins is an idea man. I BELIEVE in the idea man. Willing to do what it takes to succeed.
    sleepngbear and Chrisy like this.
    06-04-12 09:30 AM
  7. rickbansal's Avatar
    The only thing that will work is for RIM to get acquired or form a partnership with the likes of Samsung, Amazon, etc.. Unfortunately, nothing else can save RIM. The stock has dropped below $10/share!!
    06-04-12 10:50 AM
  8. qbnkelt's Avatar
    And there are many who were optimistic in the face of adversity and lost... big time. Just because it worked for Steve Jobs doesn't mean it'll work for everyone. There are many things you can't control in life - no matter how optimistic you are. And at the end of it all - did his optimism beat cancer? Like I said - optimism can only get you so far.

    In RIM's case, you can be optimistic all you want (and so can RIM) but the realistic way to look at things are that they're in trouble and the odds of pulling out of this nose-dive are very low. If you think they'll turn it around - go buy a ton of their stocks. Optimistic Leaf fans should put all their money on a bet that they're going to win the cup next year too.
    No one with any amount of sense would argue that RIM is not in the fight for its life. It is in a terrible position.
    My point is that one can either go sit in a corner, hands wringing, and bemoan the position they're in OR take steps as they are taking and wait for the results of those changed while remaining optimistic that they will succeed.
    And there is very little you know as to how I support RIM.

    Interesting, how an optimistic outlook on RIM seems to offend so many if the usual suspects.

    News for alls y'alls....loss of competition in any industry is a very bad thing.
    06-04-12 11:23 AM
  9. 1magine's Avatar
    3+ years ago, RIM realized that the Java based programming used on the BBOS was a dead end. When they started working on the PB they started from scratch with QNX - not BBOS. Rather than put the effort into ensuring a BB10 release 1-2 years ago, they split effort, and continued to put out less than high end consumer devices and a tablet that would serve a small niche community at best. Last year, it was abunduntly clear than QNX for handhelds (BB10) needed to be out ASAP.

    The question and conclusion that many analysts are dealing with is has RIM changed sufficiently to become an adept, agile company. Or is it still plauged by lack of innovation and failure to deliver a compelling and timely product. The only indication of an answer they have to work with is that BB10 is still 5+ months out. In the real world, most high end companies do not have the luxury of asking do you want it fast or do you want it right. They must deliver on both. Will RIMM survive? That is actually a really good question, that analysts and commentators should ask? There will be at least one earnings call prior to the release of BB10. What if RIMM is at $9 prior to the call. Could they fall to $6 by Oct. What about after the release of the new IOS products? What about after the release of the dozens of Android and Win8 devices sporting quad cores, when the new BB10 devices will come into the marketplace behind again in hardware. What will be so compelling to the NA market to drive the stock up and avoid hostile bids? It's a shame you can't change the past. But you can't. Not saying don't be hopeful, just think people should be realistic and honest here.
    waker likes this.
    06-04-12 11:26 AM
  10. qbnkelt's Avatar
    The epitome of the under spec'd, infinitely smooth device, the iPhone that I've got in my hand right now would argue that specs do not equal an optimal experience. IF BB10 is as smooth and as efficient as it is rumored to be, the ultra specs won't matter.
    You can't deny the blunders or the lost opportunities. But the future needn't be hostage to the past.
    If it were so, Apple would have ended with the Newton fiasco.
    sleepngbear likes this.
    06-04-12 11:38 AM
  11. Chrisy's Avatar
    I don't want RIM to go under and I am staying positive too. I talk up the products whenever I can. But honestly, I am not going to stress about it. It's not life or death. It's a company.
    06-04-12 11:40 AM
  12. 1magine's Avatar
    The epitome of the under spec'd, infinitely smooth device, the iPhone that I've got in my hand right now would argue that specs do not equal an optimal experience. IF BB10 is as smooth and as efficient as it is rumored to be, the ultra specs won't matter.
    You can't deny the blunders or the lost opportunities. But the future needn't be hostage to the past.
    If it were so, Apple would have ended with the Newton fiasco.
    I-phones are no way near under specced. Not compared to BB. But please go back and re-read my post. Please excuse me, but it seems as though you are focused on a single vein in a single leaf and not seeing the forest I laid before you.
    06-04-12 11:46 AM
  13. Ricktye's Avatar
    I guess my thoughts on this are that if you feel RIM is going to be gone, then sell your BB device (if you have one) now while you can. Then go by your iPhone, android or whatever and live happily ever after..... That way you will never have to worry about RIM again and we who are left here will not ever again have to listen to all the moaning and crying, especially from those who sadly don't even have a BB, but rather got sucked into the Android or iPhone hype and are now stuck with those inferior devices and feel better by constantly bashing RIM. Enough already; it is what it is..... If you're not happy I'm sorry but I can't believe it'll change by whining. Likewise if you seem to know what RIM needs to change, get over there, hire on and turn things around. Its like the old adage I suppose, "put up or shut up!"

    R...

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    Chrisy likes this.
    06-04-12 11:49 AM
  14. 1magine's Avatar
    I guess my thoughts on this are that if you feel RIM is going to be gone, then sell your BB device (if you have one) now while you can. Then go by your iPhone, android or whatever and live happily ever after..... That way you will never have to worry about RIM again and we who are left here will not ever again have to listen to all the moaning and crying, especially from those who sadly don't even have a BB, but rather got sucked into the Android or iPhone hype and are now stuck with those inferior devices and feel better by constantly bashing RIM. Enough already; it is what it is..... If you're not happy I'm sorry but I can't believe it'll change by whining. Likewise if you seem to know what RIM needs to change, get over there, hire on and turn things around. Its like the old adage I suppose, "put up or shut up!"

    R...

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    Compelling. Thought provoking. Well written. Surely to get the desired result. Oxford has done another fine job.
    06-04-12 11:52 AM
  15. qbnkelt's Avatar
    I-phones are no way near under specced. Not compared to BB. But please go back and re-read my post. Please excuse me, but it seems as though you are focused on a single vein in a single leaf and not seeing the forest I laid before you.
    Not at all. I saw your forest. You laid out the majority of the risks and the contingencies that may affect RIM's possibility to manage the transition from stagnant complacency to forward innovation.
    The stakes are high. Absolutely agree.
    Unlike others, I am not of the opinion that they need to overtake Android or Apple. Their task is to regain a percentage of lost market share and retain core demographic. This I am optimistic they will be able to achieve.
    Chrisy and sleepngbear like this.
    06-04-12 11:55 AM
  16. 1magine's Avatar
    Agreed. They need not overtake. They need to become "The third option". Many with a share ownership, or BES investment, or other investment in companies that run BES without an MMS is that RIMM may not pull up in time or sufficiently before becoming that option. I think that is what was inherent in the article and in most of the commentary here. I don't want to speak for anyone but myself, but it sounded to me like most feel that if BB10 gets to market and is not bug riddled or hamstringed by poor hardware choices like plastic screens and fixed focus cameras it will be well received and make back enough market share over time to survive and thrive, even in a third position. Questions remains: getting there and delivering the device.
    Chrisy likes this.
    06-04-12 12:03 PM
  17. reeneebob's Avatar
    The epitome of the under spec'd, infinitely smooth device, the iPhone that I've got in my hand right now would argue that specs do not equal an optimal experience. IF BB10 is as smooth and as efficient as it is rumored to be, the ultra specs won't matter.
    You can't deny the blunders or the lost opportunities. But the future needn't be hostage to the past.
    If it were so, Apple would have ended with the Newton fiasco.
    This. I've used dual core, gig or more of RAM Android superphones that lag something fierce because Android is a bloated resource hog. My Lumia 710 is under spec compared to them and runs far more smoothly and fast, as does my iPhone 4 (not 4S). My 9900 has more juice under the hood but if I open Appworld I'm screwed, after a couple minutes browsing I lock up completely and have to battery pull.

    Specs mean nothing if you're working with bad code.


    I got blisters on me fingers! from using Tapatalk.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    06-04-12 12:05 PM
  18. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Those are the key unknowns. RIM has historically bungled releases. They cannot do that this time.
    We will see.
    Oh....on specs....my Skyrocket kills my 4S on paper. Yet my 4S kills my Skyrocket on smooth, finished transitions and UI. Just wish there were customisation options.
    06-04-12 12:10 PM
  19. sleepngbear's Avatar
    3+ years ago, RIM realized that the Java based programming used on the BBOS was a dead end. When they started working on the PB they started from scratch with QNX - not BBOS. Rather than put the effort into ensuring a BB10 release 1-2 years ago, they split effort, and continued to put out less than high end consumer devices and a tablet that would serve a small niche community at best. Last year, it was abunduntly clear than QNX for handhelds (BB10) needed to be out ASAP.

    The question and conclusion that many analysts are dealing with is has RIM changed sufficiently to become an adept, agile company. Or is it still plauged by lack of innovation and failure to deliver a compelling and timely product. The only indication of an answer they have to work with is that BB10 is still 5+ months out. In the real world, most high end companies do not have the luxury of asking do you want it fast or do you want it right. They must deliver on both. Will RIMM survive? That is actually a really good question, that analysts and commentators should ask? There will be at least one earnings call prior to the release of BB10. What if RIMM is at $9 prior to the call. Could they fall to $6 by Oct. What about after the release of the new IOS products? What about after the release of the dozens of Android and Win8 devices sporting quad cores, when the new BB10 devices will come into the marketplace behind again in hardware. What will be so compelling to the NA market to drive the stock up and avoid hostile bids? It's a shame you can't change the past. But you can't. Not saying don't be hopeful, just think people should be realistic and honest here.
    All good points, and all legitimate concerns. The only point I'd disagree with is how soon they could have gotten BB10 out the door if they had abandoned BBOS sooner. As the saying goes, nine women can't make a baby in a month; my guess is that it takes as long as it takes, and moving bodies off the BB7 project and on to BB10 wouldn't have sped things up to any measurable degree. But I admit, that is just a guess.

    The reality is, no one knows what is going to happen, and that includes both the doom-and-gloomers and us eternal optimists. We are well aware of the gravity of RIM'S current situation. The biggest point of contention appears to be the perceived value of BB10: one camp embraces it as the one thing that has a shot at saving the company (and remains cautiously optimistic that it will), while the other camp dismisses it and anything else RIM does as too little too late, because the company's already toast. Half-full, or half-empty.

    The key word here for the former is 'cautiously' optimistic. We know that RIM can sink on BB10 just as easily as it can swim. We know that the competition isn't sitting still while we're waiting for BB10. We know that RIM needs to execute to perfection if it has any hope at all to return to relevance, and even then it will be an uphill struggle. We know that past performance doesn't give us a lot to hang our hopes on. We know that any of those 'strategic alternatives' could happen at any moment, including anything from a partnership to a hostile takeover to the doors simply getting locked shut and lights-out on the NOC. But we don't want any of those things to happen (unless they happen for the long-term sustaining and bettering of the brand), and we are remaining hopeful that a new platform and new management will see it through and the brand will survive better than it was before. We believe that RIM has enough going for it that can make it possible; and as long as it's possible, there's room for hope.

    Realism and optimism do not have to be mutually exclusive, that's all we're saying.
    Laura Knotek, john_v and 1magine like this.
    06-04-12 12:15 PM
  20. john_v's Avatar
    Those are the key unknowns. RIM has historically bungled releases. They cannot do that this time.
    We will see.
    Oh....on specs....my Skyrocket kills my 4S on paper. Yet my 4S kills my Skyrocket on smooth, finished transitions and UI. Just wish there were customisation options.
    Q, I'd hate to be the guy that tries to mug you and gets hit with the ginormous bag you must have to carry all those devices!
    06-04-12 12:22 PM
  21. 1magine's Avatar
    "Realism and optimism do not have to be mutually exclusive, that's all we're saying." Well said. They should never be so.
    06-04-12 12:36 PM
  22. texazzpete's Avatar
    I guess my thoughts on this are that if you feel RIM is going to be gone, then sell your BB device (if you have one) now while you can. Then go by your iPhone, android or whatever and live happily ever after..... That way you will never have to worry about RIM again and we who are left here will not ever again have to listen to all the moaning and crying, especially from those who sadly don't even have a BB, but rather got sucked into the Android or iPhone hype and are now stuck with those inferior devices and feel better by constantly bashing RIM. Enough already; it is what it is..... If you're not happy I'm sorry but I can't believe it'll change by whining. Likewise if you seem to know what RIM needs to change, get over there, hire on and turn things around. Its like the old adage I suppose, "put up or shut up!"

    R...

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    Surely you should be educated enough to know the difference between 'harsh realism' and 'whining'. I see that silly term thrown around by people who really should know better as soon as dissenting views are aired.

    IMHO, blind optimists like yourself have done more harm to the Blackberry brand than any of the so-called 'whiners'. One group demands improvements and flays RIM for boneheaded decisions, the other is perfectly happy with the status quo...

    Call me a 'negative nancy' all you like, but in the space of 2 years i've purchased a BB Bold 9700, 9780 and three Bold 9900s for myself, Bold 9700 and 9790 for the wife, playbook for myself and have been instrumental in getting at least 20 people to switch to Blackberries from featurephones they were perfectly happy with before they met me (what can I say, BBM is indispensable in my country). All devices purchased 100% unsubsidized. Not many people here have put more money in RIM's coffers than I have over the last 2 years...so forgive me if I think i've earned the right to criticize RIM's failings without being called a 'whiner' by a touchy fanboy
    06-04-12 04:44 PM
  23. dbollman423's Avatar
    I find the article to be contradictory and conclusory. Very poorly written and based upon unstated assumptions. Currently, Blackberry is growing strong outside of the North American continent. Most of the inventory "write down" will probably be shipped to South America, Asia/Pacific, Europe, etc. Apple fans are entitled to their device of choice.

    The idea that RIM/BB will fall apart with even 5% of the North American market is silly. All they need to do is scale their organization to meet the market demand. You don't need to sell the family toy store if it is still making a profit just because Toys R' Us came to town.

    Thorsten never said that we are liquidating, which apparently the author assumes. There are a myriad of opportunities to explore before getting to that point. That includes growing the product outside of the U.S. Let's face it, that is where true growth will be. Where smart phones are still gaining against just phones.

    That and 50cents will buy you a coke. But everyone should calm down because the sky is not falling.
    06-04-12 04:51 PM
  24. dbollman423's Avatar
    As the Flight Director of Apollo 13, Eugene Kranz said, "Don't tell me what we don't have! Tell me what we do have!".

    I have a sneaky suspicion that Blackberry will be just fine.

    TH is good for the company. I read on the blogs that a pairing could arise between samsung and Blackberry. This could be a good thing. Blackberry could be the brains, Samsung the physical unit (including dual processors). I would be sure that they would come to a compromise on model designs and have the steadfast keypad.

    I bet you a dime to a doughnut there are designers for Samsung who see the Bold 9900 and think to themselves "I'd like to look under the hood of that. That is smart sexy.".

    And RIM could demand a premium for the shareholders. There is a benefit to being the brains of the outfit.
    Last edited by dbollman423; 06-04-12 at 09:25 PM.
    06-04-12 09:14 PM
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