07-07-12 12:21 AM
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  1. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    I believe it's interesting to note that some still believe RIM STOCK (edited), in its current or "next" form, will remain and may be an opportunity.
    Graphs include, so there is the link (for once) : Research In Motion: Upside Exists Among Massive Pessimism - Seeking Alpha

    Small Price Incorporates Worst Expectations
    With a market price of $7.35, RIMM is trading at a total market cap of $3.85B. Taking away the net cash position of $2.2B, leaves a $1.65B price tag for the rest of the enterprise. All of RIMM's patents, existing infrastructure, and massive subscriber base could be theoretically bought at this price.
    Theoretically, if RIMM CEO Thorsten Heins announced tomorrow that Research in Motion was abandoning BB10 completely and selling itself completely off, the stock would double, perhaps triple, instantly. If the stock failed to skyrocket in mere seconds after this theoretical scenario, a huge arbitrage opportunity would be available to any investor who could click the 'buy' button fast enough.
    Last edited by Superfly_FR; 07-05-12 at 06:28 AM.
    bungaboy likes this.
    07-05-12 02:26 AM
  2. cgk's Avatar
    Read it more carefully, what he's actually saying is that although it's likely to fold like Palm if you get in at the right time, you can still make money off it -

    Apple and Google have stolen the smartphone spotlight, but don't forget that even last-minute shareholders of debt-laden and disaster-prone Palm Inc made money off their investment.
    07-05-12 03:38 AM
  3. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Read it more carefully, what he's actually saying is that although it's likely to fold like Palm if you get in at the right time, you can still make money off it -
    even last-minute shareholders of debt-laden and disaster-prone Palm Inc
    Or, maybe I've read it too carefully ;-)

    For me this means that even in a palm-like situation meaning : no cash and debts and prostrated company (which - as of date - is not RIM profile), investors can get cash from this investment. The prior paragraph goes - IMHO - that way too. In short : "whatever happens to RIM, you can make money with".
    => Reversing shorts trend sounds good news to me.
    07-05-12 04:17 AM
  4. app_Developer's Avatar
    He's not optimistic about RIM's future in this industry, he's optimistic about his chance to make a little money as RIM's parts are sold.
    amazinglygraceless and Yaceka like this.
    07-05-12 05:51 AM
  5. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    He's not optimistic about RIM's future in this industry, he's optimistic about his chance to make a little money as RIM's parts are sold.
    I believe he's not "anything" about RIM in this industry, in fact this is not what matters.
    Any statement that would sustain the stock is good news to me. I don't care the "why", in fact ;-).

    But, I understand your points of view (both of you) so, if a moderator is around, please remove the [positive] prefix of the title. Thanks.
    Edit: thanks, Matt.
    Last edited by Superfly_FR; 07-05-12 at 09:04 AM.
    07-05-12 06:26 AM
  6. cgk's Avatar
    Are any analysts suggesting an upgrade of RIM's stock based on the ability of BB10 to compete?

    Pretty much all of the ones we've seen posted here and I've seen are based on an idea that the company will be sold/asset-stripped and that cause the stock increase/ability for investors to profit.
    notfanboy likes this.
    07-05-12 06:47 AM
  7. kbz1960's Avatar
    So it is a good time to buy. If bb10 is successful then win. If RIM is sold off in pieces also win?
    Superfly_FR and menaknow like this.
    07-05-12 06:54 AM
  8. LoganSix's Avatar
    So it is a good time to buy. If bb10 is successful then win. If RIM is sold off in pieces also win?
    Yes, because the "shorters" might have finally done all the damage that they could have done to the stock with negative articles of RIM's demise, while ignoring that RIM has done everything that they said they should do(*) and still has $0 debt and $2 billion on hand.


    * I'm ignoring all the asinine statements that RIM should use either Windows 8 or Android for the next phone. If these people who suggested this were ever to run a company, it would be out of business faster than the work men could install the "open for business" sign.
    07-05-12 07:12 AM
  9. njblackberry's Avatar
    I think the people who were and are running RIM are doing a pretty good job at destroying shareholder value on their own and can use all the help they can get. Whether or not you think the suggestions are asinine..
    07-05-12 07:18 AM
  10. JTATL's Avatar
    I think the people who were and are running RIM are doing a pretty good job at destroying shareholder value on their own and can use all the help they can get. Whether or not you think the suggestions are asinine..
    Yes Carl Icahn may be accumulating positions as we speak. Maybe thats what RIM needs a good old fashioned corporate raider I mean activist shareholder to sort it out.
    07-05-12 07:26 AM
  11. LoganSix's Avatar
    I think the people who were and are running RIM are doing a pretty good job at destroying shareholder value on their own and can use all the help they can get. Whether or not you think the suggestions are asinine..
    Here is why using a competitor's OS is asinine.

    RIM is not a phone maker. If they move to another OS, the only thing they have to differentiate themselves (besides BES/BIS) from the other phones is a keyboard, which can easily be copied by one of the cheap discount phone makers.

    Getting Android/Windows 7 to work with BES/BIS would probably be more trouble than it is worth. If they lose BES/BIS in order to use some other OS, then they lose their competitive advantage. However, if they did manage to get Android/Windows 7/iOS working within the BIS/BES world, then they could just use that as an advantage over those OSs.

    But, let's go to the very obvious. Windows has less of a market share than RIM, why would they go with an OS that can't penetrate the market any better? Android is forking, why make yet another phone for another fork of OS?

    Finally, QNX is on hundreds of embedded devices, in cars and all sorts of things. If RIM works the connection with embedded devices and the BB10 devices (I won't call it a phone), then they open up a world of possibilities that less flexible OSs can only dream of....well, they can't dream of that world, because they can't multi-task.
    07-05-12 07:36 AM
  12. JTATL's Avatar
    RIM doesnt make money on hardware. It would make more sense for them to license BB10 QNX BES BIS and BBM to other manufacturers like android was.
    07-05-12 07:42 AM
  13. njblackberry's Avatar
    But RIM is making a phone. It's just a phone.
    It's a phone using new hardware with a new operating system and lots and lots of work to do. It's just a phone!
    07-05-12 07:49 AM
  14. cgk's Avatar
    RIM doesnt make money on hardware. It would make more sense for them to license BB10 QNX BES BIS and BBM to other manufacturers like android was.
    That is part of the gamble with BB10 - the hope is that they can once again sell phones where they also make money on the hardware. That is why BB10 is not aimed at kids and the poor who are the predominate customers like the current bb7 range has been sold at cost to appeal to.

    RIM is trying to turn back time and return to be a high margin player who's primary customer is enterprise and prosumers rather than a no-margin (on the hardware) supplier of phones to teenagers and people on low incomes in emerging markets.
    Last edited by cgk; 07-05-12 at 07:55 AM.
    07-05-12 07:52 AM
  15. JTATL's Avatar
    That is part of the gamble with BB10 - the hope is that they can once again sell phones where they also make money on the hardware. That is why BB10 is not aimed at kids and the poor like the current bb7 range has been aimed and sold at cost to appeal to.
    RIM's handset growth globally is not the high end blackberry bold its the low end curves. They dont make money on low end curves.
    07-05-12 07:54 AM
  16. LoganSix's Avatar
    But RIM is making a phone. It's just a phone.
    It's a phone using new hardware with a new operating system and lots and lots of work to do. It's just a phone!
    You are apparently too young to know what "just a phone" means.
    07-05-12 07:55 AM
  17. njblackberry's Avatar
    Actually, I am pretty sure I am older than most here.
    I had a Motorola bag phone. How great was that. Still have it. I have my first RIM 950 mobile device in a box somewhere.

    It's just a phone. And the Playbook is (was) just a tablet. They have to compete. They are commodity devices.
    Pete6 likes this.
    07-05-12 07:59 AM
  18. LoganSix's Avatar
    Actually, I am pretty sure I am older than most here.
    I had a Motorola bag phone.
    Tell me, besides making a phone call, what else could you do on that bag phone?

    I know, it was nothing else, because I used one as well.
    I surely couldn't get e-mail, surf the web, take pictures, control my car stereo, play games, get GPS map information, etc....In fact, my 9930 probably does more than the PC I had back in 1986.
    07-05-12 08:05 AM
  19. njblackberry's Avatar
    I can do that on any number of phones that are out today (and not in "Q1, 2013") made by any number of manufacturers and running one of several mobile operating systems, what makes the BB10 so special?

    RIM is in the dumps - I hope everyone acknowledges that - and has now asked that everyone wait calmly for a new phone with a new OS in 6 months.

    I mentioned the bag phone as you stated I was too young to know what "a phone" was. I know perfectly well what a phone was, and what a phone is today.

    Did I miss any part of that?
    07-05-12 08:08 AM
  20. LoganSix's Avatar
    Did I miss any part of that?
    Apparently the part where I mentioned the connection with embedded devices.
    07-05-12 08:24 AM
  21. njblackberry's Avatar
    Which is, at best, conceptual.
    Let RIM come up a working BB 10 phone (of course it has to be secure) and then they can discuss connecting it to embedded devices.
    07-05-12 08:27 AM
  22. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Just curious - does anyone know if any of the existing embedded devices have any inherent communication capabilities so that they could actually communicate with a BB10 device?
    Virtually, any QNX device. Not to say you will control a nuclear security system with your phone (hopefully), but that the link between it and those devices can be demonstrated with what we know as "bridge" for PB.
    I believe first implementations will pop in car infotainment systems; the Porsche demo is more than a proof of concept. While many manufacturers will hold QNX powered infotainement system or even more advanced ones, like starting remotely your car or control its health there's not much to wait until we see them live.
    07-05-12 09:14 AM
  23. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    So it is a good time to buy. If bb10 is successful then win. If RIM is sold off in pieces also win?
    Vador, is that you ?
    Luke.
    07-05-12 09:16 AM
  24. Pete6's Avatar
    Tell me, besides making a phone call, what else could you do on that bag phone?

    I know, it was nothing else, because I used one as well.
    I surely couldn't get e-mail, surf the web, take pictures, control my car stereo, play games, get GPS map information, etc....In fact, my 9930 probably does more than the PC I had back in 1986.
    As I recall it was also a pretty good heater too - for a short while.
    07-05-12 09:23 AM
  25. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Yes for future embeds, but how about existing ones?
    Software updates. That's one of the major convenience of QNX.
    07-05-12 09:30 AM
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