1. Fret Madden's Avatar
    So I read an article on the Verge about Apple's "probable inclusion" of reprogrammable SIM cards in future devices, and making carriers force manufacturers to include it in future devices (again); took a spin around the webz to look into it. By the looks of it, seems it'll be easier to switch carriers but not so much for the devices. I've never been dependent on a SIM being a Verizon customer, and before that I had Sprint PCS. I never considered it to be much of a hassle to switch devices that never had a SIM, but again this was always on CDMA carriers that didn't require them.

    So I'm curious, for those that swap devices left and right using a SIM, how much of a problem would an embedded and reprogrammable SIM truly be? Would everyone simply be using their carrier website like I used to and just punch in a couple numbers and reboot the device(s)? Or would it be much more in-depth and a pain in the hindquarters?

    Posted via CB10
    10-16-14 08:18 PM
  2. pittster's Avatar
    That would be a big PITA. How would use your device out the country, test multiple phones?
    10-16-14 08:29 PM
  3. Fret Madden's Avatar
    That would be a big PITA. How would use your device out the country, test multiple phones?
    The testing of multiple devices wouldn't be that bad, but I'm wondering if you'd need to have several SIM numbers from carriers instead of a physical card to use in different countries and/or carriers.
    10-16-14 08:41 PM
  4. Supa_Fly1's Avatar
    ...

    I've never been dependent on a SIM being a Verizon customer, and before that I had Sprint PCS. I never considered it to be much of a hassle to switch devices that never had a SIM, but again this was always on CDMA carriers that didn't require them.

    ...Posted via CB10
    OK Clearly you've not been with a CDMA provider prior to HSPA days, or never really switched.

    Verizon Wireless did not have full compatibility with Sprint Wireless prior to 10yrs ago and really had NO INCENTIVE to unlock a CDMA device. It was worse here in Canada with Telus Mobility and Bell Mobility before they partnered some 10yrs ago and merged their networks. (PS: Prior to Telus Mobility, ClearNet was the nam ebefore being purchased and luckily their marketing department stayed).

    Having imbedded SIM cards goes completely against the GSM body standards.
    This also allows providers more control over choosing to "SIM unlock" devices. This is EXACTLY why Apple was shut down before getting past the drawing board. Furthermore Apple had NO SOLUTION for Unlocking devices to change providers.
    10-16-14 08:50 PM
  5. 1fryman's Avatar
    BlackBerry has this option in a software version through a recent acquisition of Movitru . You can have two phone numbers assigned to one device. The word is, you pick your carrier.

    BlackBerry acquires Movirtu to help improve BYOD support | CrackBerry.com
    10-16-14 08:56 PM
  6. Fret Madden's Avatar
    OK Clearly you've not been with a CDMA provider prior to HSPA days, or never really switched.

    Verizon Wireless did not have full compatibility with Sprint Wireless prior to 10yrs ago and really had NO INCENTIVE to unlock a CDMA device. It was worse here in Canada with Telus Mobility and Bell Mobility before they partnered some 10yrs ago and merged their networks. (PS: Prior to Telus Mobility, ClearNet was the nam ebefore being purchased and luckily their marketing department stayed).
    No, you misunderstood me. I went from Sprint, to AllTel, and then became a Verizon customer from the buyout. Never took a device from one to the other at all, nor tried to. I'm talking about when switching a CDMA only device one had to call them or use their website and plug in the IMEI or MEID numbers. This is what I would have to do to swap between, say, my 8130 and my old Razr.


    Having imbedded SIM cards goes completely against the GSM body standards.
    This also allows providers more control over choosing to "SIM unlock" devices. This is EXACTLY why Apple was shut down before getting past the drawing board. Furthermore Apple had NO SOLUTION for Unlocking devices to change providers.

    This is what I was going for - would it/could it happen, and some seem to think Apple's going to get what they want, and what would the fallout be, to put it in a nutshell.
    10-16-14 09:10 PM
  7. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    I just don't see how this could be advantageous from the device manufacturer's perspective,... the ability to just swap sims makes it really easy for someone to buy and use multiple devices. If you need the carrier to activate or reprogram the built-in sim card in your new device, then that adds an extra barrier that will only slow down new device adoption.

    Also,.. not enough can be said about the ability to buy a cheap prepaid sim at an airport convenience store while traveling and popping it into the same device that has all your life on it.

    Scr*w Apple.

    Posted via CB10
    10-16-14 09:38 PM
  8. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    http://qz.com/282466/this-new-apple-...less-industry/

    Hmm,.. maybe it has its benefits. Not for multi-device users, but perhaps for multi-carrier usage.

    Posted via CB10
    10-16-14 10:12 PM
  9. Fret Madden's Avatar
    http://qz.com/282466/this-new-apple-...less-industry/

    Hmm,.. maybe it has its benefits. Not for multi-device users, but perhaps for multi-carrier usage.

    Posted via CB10
    I can tell by what I read that the impact wouldn't be slight if they do, but not having been on a GSM carrier I didn't know entirely what advantages or disadvantages it would have. There's reading about something, and then there's actually being there.

    Posted via CB10
    10-16-14 10:18 PM
  10. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    I can tell by what I read that the impact wouldn't be slight if they do, but not having been on a GSM carrier I didn't know entirely what advantages or disadvantages it would have. There's reading about something, and then there's actually being there.

    Posted via CB10
    It sounds like what they want to do is to have one single Apple SIM, that is serviceable by multiple carriers, and supposedly billed through one of Apple's payment systems. I see carriers maybe agreeing to allow this on secondary devices such as tablets, but... there must be some archaic regulations attached to phone service (as in, the actual phone number).

    Posted via CB10
    10-16-14 10:27 PM
  11. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    It sounds like what they want to do is to have one single Apple SIM, that is serviceable by multiple carriers, and supposedly billed through one of Apple's payment systems. I see carriers maybe agreeing to allow this on secondary devices such as tablets, but... there must be some archaic regulations attached to phone service (as in, the actual phone number).

    Posted via CB10
    Looks like a scheme by Apple to stranglehold and screw carriers (and subsequently customers!) even more...

    Why would they do that otherwise? We know that Apple is all about the bottom line. I wish it wasn't so. :-)

    ? BlackBerry? I premdict the future's gonna be chenomenal! ?
    10-17-14 02:11 AM
  12. Fret Madden's Avatar
    Looks like a scheme by Apple to stranglehold and screw carriers (and subsequently customers!) even more...

    Why would they do that otherwise? We know that Apple is all about the bottom line. I wish it wasn't so. :-)

    ? BlackBerry? I premdict the future's gonna be chenomenal! ?
    Actually, what if what they're after is more than a reprogrammable SIM - how about the ability to just add carrier info so users that previously would have needed to swap out a SIM can just flip a switch in the OS? Carriers provide a number or a link to connect to in order to provision, and then the OS provides a list with on/off toggles. Might be kind of nifty.

    Posted via CB10
    10-17-14 04:30 AM
  13. LoganSix's Avatar
    Actually, what if what they're after is more than a reprogrammable SIM - how about the ability to just add carrier info so users that previously would have needed to swap out a SIM can just flip a switch in the OS? Carriers provide a number or a link to connect to in order to provision, and then the OS provides a list with on/off toggles. Might be kind of nifty.

    Posted via CB10
    Then you want BlackBerry's solution. Their SIM is virtual, not programmed.
    10-17-14 11:27 AM
  14. gg bb's Avatar
    Interesting article relating to this

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/10...eauty_contest/




    Posted via CB10
    10-17-14 12:43 PM
  15. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    As I said before, this is all very simple for data connections on tablets,.. about as simple as paying for 30 minutes of WiFi at a Boingo hot spot.

    However, handling and maintaining a telephone number active and/or at least reserved from being handed out, does have a certain infrastructural cost (which is why even prepaid sim cards will charge a fee even if you don't use a minute on them).

    I would LOVE a dual sim type of thing, wherein one of the SIMs acts like a normal static telephone calling SIM, and the other SIM acts like Apple SIM and let's you select data packages as required.

    Posted via CB10
    10-17-14 01:30 PM
  16. Warlack's Avatar
    BlackBerry has this option in a software version through a recent acquisition of Movitru . You can have two phone numbers assigned to one device. The word is, you pick your carrier.

    BlackBerry acquires Movirtu to help improve BYOD support | CrackBerry.com
    Both will be from the same carrier.......



    Posted via CB10
    10-17-14 04:47 PM
  17. Warlack's Avatar
    As I said before, this is all very simple for data connections on tablets,.. about as simple as paying for 30 minutes of WiFi at a Boingo hot spot.

    However, handling and maintaining a telephone number active and/or at least reserved from being handed out, does have a certain infrastructural cost (which is why even prepaid sim cards will charge a fee even if you don't use a minute on them).

    I would LOVE a dual sim type of thing, wherein one of the SIMs acts like a normal static telephone calling SIM, and the other SIM acts like Apple SIM and let's you select data packages as required.

    Posted via CB10
    This sounds a little bit like talking about good old landlines and 56K modems XD




    Folks:

    What apple has done with "their" SIM card is the following:

    The sim cards identification number will be known and accepted by the participating operators.

    All the SIM card is allowed to do is roaming between carriers.

    You select the carrier, as well as your data pack.

    As soon as this happens, apple tells the roaming partners your choice and they adjust to it.

    In the end: Apple is just a broker between the carriers letting them know your roaming decision.

    And every broker gets a cut out of it.


    Creating this for mobile numbers would not be much harder, it would just take away the profits from the carriers and finally make them utility companies.

    And yeah.... Apple would turn into a virtual carrier.


    Movirtu is a virtual SIM. It tells your provider that it's OK to forward traffic to your phone.

    You have two numbers, two data bundles to use. You can easily swap automatically via existing rules or manually.
    It won't really work on different carriers, since the frequencies are different and you would therefore have a worse performance on your phone and you could choose to either download something fast or be able to take calls on the other "line"

    56k and landline times in this respect until VoLTE is standard just like GSM is standard

    Posted via CB10
    10-17-14 05:06 PM
  18. TGR1's Avatar
    I have bought SIMs when traveling to Europe. Good thing it was for business and I could expense the 10 Euro for each SIM I had to buy because I kept forgetting the old one back home. But couldn't expense the replacement I had to get from Straight Talk when I couldn't find my original (found it a month or so later in the little ziplock bag I had forgotten I was storing it in) This didn't include the pure joy of switching out the SIM when I landed back in the US, so I could confirm the shuttle to pick me up in San Diego, while navigating an unfamiliar airport in the tiny amount of time left after the insanity of Houston customs. SIMs are tiny little PITAs.

    If you don't venture beyond North America, the Apple SIM for a phone is useless. It is potentially much more useful in Europe and those countries where people currently juggle several phones because charges on individual calls depend on sender/receiver providers.
    10-19-14 11:01 AM

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