11-25-13 02:02 PM
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  1. Pete The Penguin's Avatar
    Dalvik has a cache though, and therefore once the code has been executed once it is in that cache until and unless it is invalidated (and/or overflows; it is LRU in that instance.)

    As for binary compatibility there's no problem there; modern apps can have binary components and the existing Android runtime can execute them on BB10. Newer builds from Android are now including both ARM and Intel instruction set segments; this was formerly not required but as other-than-ARM instruction set CPUs start to show up in mobile devices it will become more-and-more necessary for anything that wants to use native code.

    Android went with Dalvik originally to get around Java licensing issues AND to prevent a potential native compatibility problem down the road. They wound up having to fight anyway and didn't fully escape the compatibility issues either.
    Usually what is meant by binary-compatible is that executable programs will run unchanged (that is without recompilation) but that means that the operating system (OS) and hardware in general (to the extent that it is used) has to be the same, or that the OS is application binary interface (ABI) compatible, which makes it a "binary compatible operating system". The hardware doesn't have to be the same if it is compatible at the hardware level or if the differences are hidden by an API (by the OS). If not a general porting of the software can be used to make non-binary-compatible programs work.

    Binary compatible operating systems are operating systems who aim to implement binary compatibility with another operating system, or another variant of the same brand. This means that they are ABI-compatible (for application binary interface). As the job of an operating system is to run actual programs, the instruction set architectures running the operating systems have to be the same, compatible or else an CPU emulator or a faster dynamic translation mechanisim is sometimes provided that makes them more-or-less compatible.

    For example, the Linux kernel is not compatible with Windows. This does not mean that Linux can't be binary compatible with Windows applications. Additional software, Wine, is available that does that to some degree. The ReactOS operating system development effort, seeks to create an open source, free software operating system that is binary compatible with Microsoft's Windows NT family of operating systems using Wine for application compatibility and reimplementing the Windows kernel for additional compatibility such as for drivers whereas Linux would use Linux drivers not Windows drivers. FreeBSD and other members of the BSD family have binary compatibility with the Linux kernel in usermode by translating Linux system calls into BSD ones. This enables the application and libraries code that run on Linux-based operating systems to be run on BSD as well.

    Note that a binary compatible operating system is different from running another full OS under virtualization or emulation, to enable software for that other operating system to run, when the host OS isn't compatible. Sometimes however virtualiztion is provided with the host OS (or can such software can be obtained), which effectively makes the host operating system compatible with programs. For example Windows XP Mode for Windows 7, which allows users to run a 64-bit version of Windows 7 and have very old software still work in a 32-bit virtual machine running Windows XP, and VMware Workstation/VMware Fusion, Parallels Workstation, and Windows Virtual PC, which allow other operating systems to be run on Windows, Linux, and OS X.

    For another example, Mac OS X on the PowerPC had the ability to run Mac OS 9 and earlier application software through Classic?but this did not make OS X a binary compatible operating system with Mac OS 9. Instead, the Classic environment was actually running Mac OS 9.1 in a virtual machine, running as a normal process inside of the OS X operating system.


    Taken from Wikipedia: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binar..._compatibility


    My Channel: Geeks United C00122408
    Last edited by CJH_; 11-12-13 at 07:37 AM.
    Anilu7 likes this.
    11-11-13 01:47 PM
  2. tickerguy's Avatar
    Dude, you're just plain wrong on this and frankly that you're willing to spout this nonsense calls into question virtually everything else you've pontificated on in this regard.

    If an instruction set is compatible at the processor level then it is entirely possible on a modern CPU to trap-and-redirect instructions that would make library calls and reform them into the parent library, implement the missing calls, or go at it entirely differently and implement the guest as a virtual machine and run it that way.

    This has been the case in the "generic Unix world" for a very long time; I was able to run Xenix binaries on SVRx ix86 processor machines many years ago and long before virtualization support existed in the Intel family of CPUs and today I can execute Linux binaries unchanged on my FreeBSD machine should I have some reason to do so. For any POSIX-compliant OS the cross-compatibility issues are anywhere between relatively minor and downright trivial provided we're talking about compatible underlying CPU instruction sets.

    But even where the emulated OS is not POSIX-compliant it's not impossible -- WINE can run some (but not all) Windows apps under Unix as just one example, and again WINE dates to well before IX86 processors had virtualization support.
    swaxolez, eyhab27, redantz and 2 others like this.
    11-11-13 01:54 PM
  3. Loc22's Avatar
    Thanks for the update Kevin, my thoughts on this is that if there is a deal. I would say it would be a win win situation for both Blackberry and Google at the same time.

    Reason being that Google is already loosing revenue at the moment for BB 10 users sideloading their apps. Why not work together to recover these revenue? This will also allow more BB 10 users who do not know how to go through the complicated steps to side load apps to get these Android apps easier. This again increases revenue for Google.

    With this problem solved, Blackberry will be able to convince the remaining 60 million BB OS device owners to convert to BB 10. This will also mean more device sales for Blackberry and hence additional revenue for Google Android as well.

    I really see no downside to this happening and thing there is no reason why this deal will not go through unless Google is narrow minded and myopic and do not bother about the revenue that they are loosing on a daily basis because they are locking other potential users from getting their apps.
    11-11-13 02:13 PM
  4. jojo beaconsfield's Avatar
    Why don't you just sneek in the place and do some snooping around.I'm sure everybody would recognize you and think you were there by invitation.After you get the scoop you could make goodie goodie with Prem and Chen,they really need all the friends they can get right now.
    11-11-13 02:13 PM
  5. flyingsolid's Avatar
    Leaving a comment here to see what becomes of this.
    11-11-13 02:16 PM
  6. 00stryder's Avatar
    Why don't you just sneek in the place and do some snooping around.I'm sure everybody would recognize you and think you were there by invitation.After you get the scoop you could make goodie goodie with Prem and Chen,they really need all the friends they can get right now.
    I'm sure he would, given the chance, but unfortunately he's in France right now.

    Posted via CB10
    11-11-13 02:22 PM
  7. Icarus3000's Avatar
    What's stopping BlackBerry from joining the alliance going forward?
    Or from working out some sort of side-deal with BlackBerry?

    I have no information one way or the other, but I don't see how the fact that BB currently isn't a member of OHA means this isn't going to happen. I'll wait for Kevin to either confirm or debunk.
    11-11-13 02:23 PM
  8. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    Thanks for your effort in conducting an investigation, Kevin!!



    On a side note, if this is a prank, the pranksters will be laughing really hard at this point.
    11-11-13 02:28 PM
  9. parthokarki's Avatar
    Rumors are good keep them coming.



    Posted via CB10
    11-11-13 02:51 PM
  10. ikalinin's Avatar
    the rumor had to start somewhere... but sadly, these news and rumors sections is NOT where i want to be when it comes to BBRY and its success!
    11-11-13 02:52 PM
  11. m1kr0's Avatar
    Hold onto your seatbelts folks, this here is gonna be a rough ride!
    11-11-13 02:55 PM
  12. anon1727506's Avatar
    Thanks for the update Kevin, my thoughts on this is that if there is a deal. I would say it would be a win win situation for both Blackberry and Google at the same time.

    Reason being that Google is already loosing revenue at the moment for BB 10 users sideloading their apps. Why not work together to recover these revenue? This will also allow more BB 10 users who do not know how to go through the complicated steps to side load apps to get these Android apps easier. This again increases revenue for Google.

    With this problem solved, Blackberry will be able to convince the remaining 60 million BB OS device owners to convert to BB 10. This will also mean more device sales for Blackberry and hence additional revenue for Google Android as well.

    I really see no downside to this happening and thing there is no reason why this deal will not go through unless Google is narrow minded and myopic and do not bother about the revenue that they are loosing on a daily basis because they are locking other potential users from getting their apps.
    If Google were worried about losing revenues enough.... there are a number of things that they could do that would not constitute helping the competition. Easiest would be to go after BlackBerry for allowing this exploit of a developer "tool" (Which might be why we are seeing locked runtimes.) Sideloading is not a FEATURE of BB10, you will not find it listed in any official capacity as a way to install any android application that you want. It is meant for developers to test their ported applications. Now the BlackBerry community has taken full advantage of this "tool" up to this point. But that doesn't mean that it is legal for us to do, or for BlackBerry to continue to allow it.

    Now Google might have talked with BlackBerry about shutting down sideloading, and maybe BlackBerry asked them about becoming partners, and maybe BlackBerry offered Google something.....

    But the threat of continued losses for illegal sideloading of apps? That is not a reason for Google to "play nice".
    11-11-13 03:01 PM
  13. johnnyuk's Avatar
    They may not be able to confirm it is in the works, but they can certainly put the rumour to rest if its not true. If they don't respond or comment - probably true, otherwise they will confirm its not true.
    If it's not true it's still such a positive story that BlackBerry can stay silent and benefit from the rare good publicity for a change.... until 10.2.1.xxxx comes and goes and we all learn the truth. If it isn't true then BlackBerry never said it would be. If it is true then great.

    It's a positive news story with no real down side unlike the "BB10 promised for PlayBook" fiasco.

    Posted via CB10
    11-11-13 03:04 PM
  14. glamrlama's Avatar
    Well, about 90% of Blackberry users agreed with you over the past several years and did just that. I guess we're just talking about the last 10%.
    Are saying that 90% of BBRY users left the platform for Android? You have a very rich imagination.
    11-11-13 03:29 PM
  15. serbanescu's Avatar
    It will be a good move on the short term but, as others had already pointed out, it will descourage the development of native apps - and in doing so it will undermine the future of BB10 as a competitive platform.

    In case BlackBerry survives on the smartphone market after adopting Google Play, the most likely outcome would be to ditch BB10 altogether and switch to Android proper. Too bad, BB10 is a GREAT platform.

    --------------------

    Pic Tagger for Z30, Z10, Q10, Q5
    11-11-13 03:35 PM
  16. BuffaloMadMan's Avatar
    Google would never allow this. It would of been more real if the guy downloaded an app from the store and showed us but this is all fake no way google allows their store and ecosystem on an os that is not officially supported by them. Now if bb switched their base os to android than fprnsure but I just don't see it happening. On top of that than essentially bb has two app stores and confusing the customer and making their most devoted devs on an island because no one would go to bb world then. There's just wqy too many moving parts and license deals that it wouldn't work. Google would basically have to redo license agreements with all TV,music,and magazine vendors because of this. Not possible
    Pete The Penguin and Anilu7 like this.
    11-11-13 03:36 PM
  17. antoscimento's Avatar
    Fingers crossed!
    11-11-13 03:40 PM
  18. trsbbs's Avatar
    If this ever happens then finally I'll throw my ipod away and get a Z10.

    Posted via CB10
    A music box for a BlackBerry phone? Odd trade.

    Posted via CB10 on a Verizon Z10 running 10.2.0.1791
    11-11-13 03:44 PM
  19. bb4life21's Avatar
    If it's not true it's still such a positive story that BlackBerry can stay silent and benefit from the rare good publicity for a change.... until 10.2.1.xxxx comes and goes and we all learn the truth. If it isn't true then BlackBerry never said it would be. If it is true then great.

    It's a positive news story with no real down side unlike the "BB10 promised for PlayBook" fiasco.

    Posted via CB10
    Totally disagree. If there is no substance at all to this story BlackBerry needs to shut it down now! This is not a positive news story. Besides us BlackBerry users the general public doesn't even care. The only thing this can do if not true is make current users finally be fed up with nothing positive coming from BlackBerry and help them decide to switch platforms. It will become another waiting for nothing moment from BlackBerry. At this point not addressing it is just as bad as putting it out there themselves
    xiaohuaxing likes this.
    11-11-13 03:46 PM
  20. Iggy City's Avatar
    Google would never allow this. It would of been more real if the guy downloaded an app from the store and showed us but this is all fake no way google allows their store and ecosystem on an os that is not officially supported by them. Now if bb switched their base os to android than fprnsure but I just don't see it happening. On top of that than essentially bb has two app stores and confusing the customer and making their most devoted devs on an island because no one would go to bb world then. There's just wqy too many moving parts and license deals that it wouldn't work. Google would basically have to redo license agreements with all TV,music,and magazine vendors because of this. Not possible
    Anything is possible, my friend. All you have to do is believe.
    11-11-13 03:47 PM
  21. Edward in Toronto's Avatar
    I don't know why everyone thinks this is such a great thing. It's another defeat for BlackBerry. Wasn't the dream to have great native BB10 apps, all of them, the big ones too?

    I mean it's good, but it's a bitter sweet gain, not a victory. It's better than nothing at all, but if you think about it, this is like Sony saying we have to make our PlayStation game consoles run Xbox games to succeed. Or Apple having to make their Mac Computer run PC software to help with sales because their tanking.
    11-11-13 03:49 PM
  22. ibpluto's Avatar
    I keep reading about the people saying if they do this they should just ditch BB10 and go Android. This makes zero logic. If they can get Google play to work and still have BB10 which is a FIPS certified enterprise solution, its a best of both worlds. I see BB10 becoming a potential for other handset makers to adopt BB10 (where as now its not as attractive). I could even see companies like Samsung adopting this for handsets going into BES10 enviroments. People really fail to see the value of this OS...scary

    BB10 has its own values, not the least of which is UI and security that Android does not enjoy.
    paul435smith likes this.
    11-11-13 03:49 PM
  23. antoscimento's Avatar
    A music box for a BlackBerry phone? Odd trade.

    Posted via CB10 on a Verizon Z10 running 10.2.0.1791
    Hehe no but I started using my ipod to get into my flipboard and instagram and others apps that worked much smoothly than the sideloaded ones on my Q10. So this way I don t have to use it anymore

    Posted via CB10
    11-11-13 03:51 PM
  24. tickerguy's Avatar
    I keep reading about the people saying if they do this they should just ditch BB10 and go Android. This makes zero logic. If they can get Google play to work and still have BB10 which is a FIPS certified enterprise solution, its a best of both worlds. I see BB10 becoming a potential for other handset makers to adopt BB10 (where as now its not as attractive). I could even see companies like Samsung adopting this for handsets going into BES10 enviroments. People really fail to see the value of this OS...scary

    BB10 has its own values, not the least of which is UI and security that Android does not enjoy.
    I vastly prefer BB10 over Android, and I'm a former Android users -- going back to 1.x (yes, Pre-Froyo!)

    It's dramatically more-productive than an Android handset in general and the security is icing on the cake. If they do this and open S/MIME email they'll utterly crush the "pure Android" competitors; I would expect the response will be other makers falling over themselves to license the OS from BlackBerry for their hardware.

    The low end will remain "pure" Android simply on the licensing cost, but I can certainly envision the environment where the higher end "Android" market migrates to this as a solution over time. Needless to say that makes BlackBerry a permanent, integral and highly-profitable part of the smartphone universe.

    So who loses from such a move? Certainly not Google, and they're the ones in charge of this.

    Is this bad for "native" apps? No more than it is now. Those who want a cascades experience will get one, and they'll pay for it. After all, why do you pay for Mireo when you have "free" Maps already included? Because you like the experience and integration, that's why.

    That doesn't change and in fact if other hardware manufacturers license the OS it is likely to expand the native app market.
    11-11-13 03:55 PM
  25. hannibalmoot's Avatar
    It would actually be a benefit to Google as well. Sideloading is no way some sneaky technique BB users have been getting away with, but it is not an ideal consumer friendly experience either.

    Google has been all about getting Android into the hands of as many people as possible and they want the experience to be positive. Making Android a better experience on BB10 only helps this.

    It is also not in Google's best interest to close any avenues that allow any other manufacturers to begin monopolizing Android. (ie - Samsung) If they wanted to fence things in, they'd just have to boot everyone else out and let Motorola be the exclusive Android company. That's not how they operate. Hell, they even make first rate versions of their own apps for other OS's. If helping BB weakens Samsung a bit, that's a plus for them.

    So it really should be no surprise that they might work with BB to bring a better Android experience to more people, AND remember, some of those new people are the die-hard corporates. It is another avenue to gain some exposure with enterprise even if it's indirect. Google's been very open to trying new approaches, and really, they only stand to benefit by that much more exposure.
    11-11-13 03:56 PM
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