11-25-13 02:02 PM
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  1. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    I predict that in three to four years, BlackBerry will be at the same level as both Android, iPhone, and Windows Phone. I'm predicting that the market is going to "equalise", for lack of a better word, and that the market is going to be divided up between the four major players much more evenly.

    But don't go spending your life's savings on BlackBerry stock. I'm not basing this off much except pure speculation.

    Posted via CB10
    Are you the guy who predicted BB10 was going to outsell iPhone within 12 months? As for the prediction that in 3-4 nears the 3 platforms plus BlackBerry will normalize..... Please, don't be ridiculous. That's even worse than the iPhone prediction. That's saying BlackBerry is going to sell as much as Android.....
    11-13-13 07:04 PM
  2. sinsin07's Avatar
    snip...People forget how many "important" people in the world rely on BlackBerry, not necessarily on the device level but certainly from a services perspective.
    People once relied on whale oil for light. Times change. "Important People" will adapt if Blackberry doesn't make it.
    JeepBB likes this.
    11-13-13 07:12 PM
  3. 00stryder's Avatar
    People once relied on whale oil for light. Times change. "Important People" will adapt if Blackberry doesn't make it.
    True, but by no means will it be easy or quick. I'm not trying to say that BlackBerry is too large to fail, because obviously it isn't. But at the same time I think rather than seemingly wanting the "inevitable" to happen already, the buying public and media should assess whether they want a market dominated primarily by a duopoly. Competition breeds innovation (or something like that), I can easily see Google and Apple becoming increasingly more complacent as their platforms and ecosystems settle and mature.

    Posted via CB10
    11-13-13 07:25 PM
  4. sinsin07's Avatar
    True, but by no means will it be easy or quick. I'm not trying to say that BlackBerry is too large to fail, because obviously it isn't. But at the same time I think rather than seemingly wanting the "inevitable" to happen already, the buying public and media should assess whether they want a market dominated primarily by a duopoly. Competition breeds innovation (or something like that), I can easily see Google and Apple becoming increasingly more complacent as their platforms and ecosystems settle and mature.

    Posted via CB10
    In regard to the item above in bold, only techies on fan forums think like that.

    What are we actually seeing? The duopoly. Is there any evidence the buying public cares?

    Nah
    11-13-13 08:52 PM
  5. 00stryder's Avatar
    That's what scares me though. While people like us are surely concerned about the state of innovation in the mobile world, you can be absolutely sure that people will notice if, say, Apple releases iOS 11 in 4 years and it's exactly the same as the previous year's iteration but required and only available on whatever iPhone they're on then. Even with iOS 7, I noticed a lot of laypeople complaining about the new layout and wanting to go back to iOS 6, and getting frustrated when they realized that they couldn't.

    It's sad that people don't realize that Apple has little reason to implement revolutionary updates annually if they know that regardless of what they put out, they'll still get millions in sales from their new hardware. We can debate it and tech sites can report on it but what these companies are truly paying attention to is which device does grandma, teenager Becky, or just-want-the-latest-device-Average Joe want today.

    Posted via CB10
    11-13-13 10:44 PM
  6. sinsin07's Avatar
    That's what scares me though. While people like us are surely concerned about the state of innovation in the mobile world, you can be absolutely sure that people will notice if, say, Apple releases iOS 11 in 4 years and it's exactly the same as the previous year's iteration but required and only available on whatever iPhone they're on then. Even with iOS 7, I noticed a lot of laypeople complaining about the new layout and wanting to go back to iOS 6, and getting frustrated when they realized that they couldn't.

    It's sad that people don't realize that Apple has little reason to implement revolutionary updates annually if they know that regardless of what they put out, they'll still get millions in sales from their new hardware. We can debate it and tech sites can report on it but what these companies are truly paying attention to is which device does grandma, teenager Becky, or just-want-the-latest-device-Average Joe want today.

    Posted via CB10
    Scared? Nothing to be scared about. The scary times is when Blackberry was the king of the hill with very boring devices and your only other options was Palm OS or Windows mobile.

    Today's world mobile is the hot item and you have players with deep pockets, deeper than Blackberry ever had, like Google, Apple, Microsoft, Samsung. You have wireless technology expanding to ever faster speeds. You have Fortune 500 expanding into mobile like never before, and wanting more than Blackberry email.

    Those are just some factors, which will push mobile evolution.

    Your focus shouldn't be on Apple. When Apple starts posting billion dollar write offs and no profit, then you can return your focus to Apple.

    Right now, not so much:
    Apple’s $10.5B on Robots to Lasers Shores Up Supply Chain
    Sapphire Glass Factory expansion in Arizona
    Apple expanding to upstate NY: Apple to add GlobalFoundries to A-series chip supply roster

    All recent developments.
    Last edited by sinsin07; 11-14-13 at 05:15 AM.
    techvisor, JeepBB and 00stryder like this.
    11-14-13 05:04 AM
  7. JeepBB's Avatar
    Lmao. No cash and running out? No future? No revenue stream? And bb10 a useless $ pit? Bahahaha

    Thanks for the laugh
    When you've stopped laughing, maybe you could identify where what he's said is wrong.

    Feel free to use facts in your answer.

    So, BB10 isn't a useless money pit? So useless in fact that the latest version of BB10 will make it simple to pirate download Apps from a rival OS.

    I guess I must have missed the memo where BB10 was declared a world-beating success story.
    m1a1mg, mikeo007 and bobauckland like this.
    11-14-13 02:07 PM
  8. stabstabdie's Avatar
    When you've stopped laughing, maybe you could identify where what he's said is wrong.

    Feel free to use facts in your answer.

    So, BB10 isn't a useless money pit? I guess I must have missed the memo where it was declared a world-beating success story.
    Well blackberry does have billions in cash.
    That's not a shortage of cash.
    Revenue stream maybe low but it's there.
    Bbm may be a money pit now, but it can make money when sponsored channels arrive.
    I don't think that anyone declared bbm a world beating success story like you're talking about though. Just pointing out that the company is not out of cash.
    00stryder and Wigley458 like this.
    11-14-13 02:14 PM
  9. JeepBB's Avatar
    Well blackberry does have billions in cash.
    That's not a shortage of cash.
    Revenue stream maybe low but it's there.
    Bbm may be a money pit now, but it can make money when sponsored channels arrive.
    I don't think that anyone declared bbm a world beating success story like you're talking about though. Just pointing out that the company is not out of cash.
    I don't dispute that BB does have billions, but I've also read a number of posts mentioning the costs of redundancies, costs associated with terminating supplier contracts, and (not least) the continuing costs of write downs. If BB devices continue to post their dismal sales numbers, then there'll IMO be yet another write-down cost for the unsold inventory in the Dec 20th ER (or maybe they'll keep that for the March ER).

    Meanwhile, assuming BB stay in the hardware business, even with Prem's $1B injection, where is the cash going to come from to fund development of BB11 devices? Are BB's billions enough?

    Revenue is already small, and subscriber figures likely fall month on month. I say "likely fall", because BB no longer release those figures, which tells its own story about how much they've (likely) declined. Unless anyone believes that the reason BB no longer releases those figures is because they don't like to boast?

    There's a lot of hope being pinned on BB's ability to monetise xBBM in a significant way. I guess we'll see how that plays out. Whether it'll be enough to fund everything else BB has to do is a big question.
    11-14-13 02:39 PM
  10. m1a1mg's Avatar
    I predict that in three to four years, BlackBerry will be at the same level as both Android, iPhone, and Windows Phone. I'm predicting that the market is going to "equalise", for lack of a better word, and that the market is going to be divided up between the four major players much more evenly.
    And Kate Upton will be my girlfriend.
    00stryder likes this.
    11-14-13 02:45 PM
  11. stabstabdie's Avatar
    I don't dispute that BB does have billions, but I've also read a number of posts mentioning the costs of redundancies, costs associated with terminating supplier contracts, and (not least) the continuing costs of write downs. If BB devices continue to post their dismal sales numbers, then there'll IMO be yet another write-down cost for the unsold inventory in the Dec 20th ER (or maybe they'll keep that for the March ER).

    Meanwhile, assuming BB stay in the hardware business, even with Prem's $1B injection, where is the cash going to come from to fund development of BB11 devices? Are BB's billions enough?

    Revenue is already small, and subscriber figures likely fall month on month. I say "likely fall", because BB no longer release those figures, which tells its own story about how much they've (likely) declined. Unless anyone believes that the reason BB no longer releases those figures is because they don't like to boast?

    There's a lot of hope being pinned on BB's ability to monetise xBBM in a significant way. I guess we'll see how that plays out. Whether it'll be enough to fund everything else BB has to do is a big question.
    True, in the consumer market.
    In the enterprise market, they are growing. That brings in revenue.
    I think the situation is better than you think.
    I'm not saying it's great. But it's not as bad as you suggest. In my opinion at least.
    I'm not here to argue.
    00stryder likes this.
    11-14-13 02:54 PM
  12. JeepBB's Avatar
    I predict that in three to four years, BlackBerry will be at the same level as both Android, iPhone, and Windows Phone. I'm predicting that the market is going to "equalise", for lack of a better word, and that the market is going to be divided up between the four major players much more evenly.

    But don't go spending your life's savings on BlackBerry stock. I'm not basing this off much except pure speculation.
    Whilst I realise you did state that this was pure speculation, the thing about prediction is that it generally involves taking the current situation, extrapolating visible and likely trends, and arriving at a predicted situation.

    However, what you've written isn't prediction, it's wishful thinking. If only imagining a better world really was all it took to make it happen...
    11-14-13 02:54 PM
  13. JeepBB's Avatar
    I'm not here to argue.
    Argument involves name-calling and spitting (at least here on CrackBerry)... we're having a debate. It's much more civilised. LOL

    I think we agree that things aren't great for BB right now. Whether the glass turns out to be half-empty (BB heading for worse) or half-full (BB pull rabbits out of hats and begins the climb back) is something only time will tell.

    I have no axe to grind with you my friend, we just don't agree on the likely outcome.
    00stryder and m1a1mg like this.
    11-14-13 03:02 PM
  14. 00stryder's Avatar
    And Kate Upton will be my girlfriend.
    (I was going to respond with, "Why would you even joke like that?!" and then I realized that I completely read that wrong. For some reason I read, "Kate Gosselin." :S )

    Argument involves name-calling and spitting (at least here on CrackBerry)... we're having a debate. It's much more civilised. LOL
    I like what this "debate" has turned this thread into after the bloodbath in the earlier pages. We don't have to agree in order to civilly discuss a topic on an Internet forum.

    Btw, what ever happened to Kevin?!

    Posted via CB10
    11-14-13 03:18 PM
  15. stabstabdie's Avatar
    Argument involves name-calling and spitting (at least here on CrackBerry)... we're having a debate. It's much more civilised. LOL

    I think we agree that things aren't great for BB right now. Whether the glass turns out to be half-empty (BB heading for worse) or half-full (BB pull rabbits out of hats and begins the climb back) is something only time will tell.

    I have no axe to grind with you my friend, we just don't agree on the likely outcome.
    Oooooohhhhhh why can't we both be right?!?! Hehehehehe
    JeepBB likes this.
    11-14-13 03:27 PM
  16. sinsin07's Avatar
    Well blackberry does have billions in cash.
    ...snip
    Billions? What are these Billions? Are you talking Microsoft billions? Google billions? Samsung? Apple?

    Has something changed since the last Earnings Report?

    How much are these billions in whole numbers?

    This is great news. Wonder why the put themselves up for sale being they have "billions".
    11-14-13 03:56 PM
  17. 00stryder's Avatar
    Billions? What are these Billions? Are you talking Microsoft billions? Google billions? Samsung? Apple?

    Has something changed since the last Earnings Report?

    How much are these billions in whole numbers?

    This is great news. Wonder why the put themselves up for sale being they have "billions".
    Technically, anything greater than $1 Billion could be characterized as "billions," even if it's peanuts compared to the competition. And BlackBerry did have about $2 billion in cash before the loan from Fairfax and request for tax exemption from the federal government.

    (Btw I'm not disagreeing with you, just being facetious.)

    Posted via CB10
    m1a1mg likes this.
    11-14-13 04:04 PM
  18. app_Developer's Avatar
    And Kate Upton will be my girlfriend.
    Only if I've dumped her by then.

    But I don't know, I may not. She's alright.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    JeepBB, 00stryder and m1a1mg like this.
    11-14-13 04:12 PM
  19. sinsin07's Avatar
    Technically, anything greater than $1 Billion could be characterized as "billions," even if it's peanuts compared to the competition. And BlackBerry did have about $2 billion in cash before the loan from Fairfax and request for tax exemption from the federal government.

    (Btw I'm not disagreeing with you, just being facetious.)

    Posted via CB10
    Yeah, I know. LOL

    Just illuminating that having " billions" and having billions may not be the same.

    The more reflective wording could have been "Blackberry has a couple of billion".
    00stryder likes this.
    11-14-13 04:24 PM
  20. stabstabdie's Avatar
    Which is billions. As of right now they have between 3 and 4 billion in CASH
    Most companies do not.
    Stop being an ***. You're just trying to argue anything.

    Source :http://crackberry.com/blackberry-cou...4-billion-cash
    11-14-13 05:36 PM
  21. m1a1mg's Avatar
    Which is billions. As of right now they have between 3 and 4 billion in CASH
    Most companies do not.
    Stop being an ***. You're just trying to argue anything.

    Source :BlackBerry could wind up with over $4 billion in cash | CrackBerry.com
    Well there went the civility.
    11-14-13 05:39 PM
  22. stabstabdie's Avatar
    Seriously though, you think that arguing that almost 4 billion is more accurately called a couple of billion, rather than just billions is anything other than petty?

    That's someone here to argue anything, no matter how trivial.

    I'd call that being an *** any day.
    11-14-13 05:49 PM
  23. m1a1mg's Avatar
    Seriously though, you think that arguing that almost 4 billion is more accurately called a couple of billion, rather than just billions is anything other than petty?

    That's someone here to argue anything, no matter how trivial.

    I'd call that being an *** any day.
    Not taking sides. Just being a smartas*.
    11-14-13 06:03 PM
  24. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    Seriously though, you think that arguing that almost 4 billion is more accurately called a couple of billion, rather than just billions is anything other than petty?

    That's someone here to argue anything, no matter how trivial.

    I'd call that being an *** any day.
    There is a caveat though... To achieve 4 billion, 1 billion of that is a loan (under the guise of an investment) which is balanced back by the point that that 1 Billion is also a debt. Then there's a reliance upon actually receiving a 1 Billion tax refund which isn't necessarily a guarantee. And that's all before taking into account how much of the initial 2 Billion has been dipped in to since the last earnings report. Especially given that there isn't much left in the way of cuts anymore, which they've exhausted over the last couple of years as a method to maintain the steady cash balance they've always so proudly waved around.

    A couple billion is very likely to be accurate when tallying actual cash on hand.

    SwiftKeyed/Flowed via Tapatalk 4 Beta
    00stryder, bbq10l and richardat like this.
    11-14-13 06:31 PM
  25. sinsin07's Avatar
    Which is billions. As of right now they have between 3 and 4 billion in CASH
    Most companies do not.
    Stop being an ***. You're just trying to argue anything.

    Source :BlackBerry could wind up with over $4 billion in cash | CrackBerry.com
    Well since you called me out no they don't have 4 billion. Your own article title says "BlackBerry could wind up with over $4 billion in cash"
    Could does not equal have.

    In your own link: "If this all works out it means BlackBerry will likely end the calendar year with over $4 billion in cash, and $1 billion of this cash offset by convertible debt."

    Is it the end of the calendar year yet?

    Blackberry stated what they had. The blog post is just that, a speculative piece.

    The link is full of coulda, shoulda, likely and if. Nothing about have.
    Last edited by sinsin07; 11-14-13 at 07:09 PM.
    11-14-13 06:54 PM
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