11-25-13 01:02 PM
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  1. szlevi's Avatar
    But stay tuned, and if it turns out to be true, I'll buy everyone on CB their own PS4.
    Err, I highly doubt that - ~3.88M registered members * $300 (you get at least 25% off from Sony) = $1,164,000,000...
    11-12-13 09:18 AM
  2. m1a1mg's Avatar
    As awesome as this is for the members of this site, it means nothing to the guy who walks in off the street to buy a phone. Once you explain to him the steps necessary to get an .apk onto a BB phone, he'll just buy an Android phone.
    techvisor and Poirots Progeny like this.
    11-12-13 09:20 AM
  3. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    I know it's not something that Google can do without permission from the app owners themselves, and that's not what I was implying. What I meant was that like we heard several months back that some unknown third party was going to convert a large number of Android apps for BB10, the function of migrating the apps over from the Play Store may be something that Google handles themselves as part of whatever agreement is being worked on right now.

    Posted via CB10
    In the first sentence, you acknowledge that Google can't do it without developer permission. In the second sentence you allude to Google doing just that with some kind of mystery agreement with BBRY. It can't be both ways.

    Any APK's in BBWorld would have to be moved there by whoever holds the rights to the app. 99.9% of the time, that would be the owner/developer of the app. Additionally, any apps that utilize the Play Store Services to enforce DRM will be unlikely candidates unless the developer specifically makes modifications to port their app over (usually only paid apps fall in this scenario).
    JeepBB likes this.
    11-12-13 09:30 AM
  4. MiSsY_'s Avatar
    Ah, this happens to me when using the app as well... I use two hands and hold the screen at the top and the second to select the specific page... pain in the ****.
    Me too!!! Its driving me nuts.
    I found that if you pull the screen like in that box where people's names and profiles are, directly above the comment it doesn't happen as much.
    Also if you make your scrolls like really quick(like really quick) little touches it doesn't happen as much.

    Sorry for going completely off topic!

    Posted via CB10 from my Z10
    11-12-13 10:12 AM
  5. bobauckland's Avatar
    So it sounds like there's no agreement to bring Google apps over, BlackBerry is just making it easier to pirate Android apps. That's so sad.
    11-12-13 10:34 AM
  6. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    So it sounds like there's no agreement to bring Google apps over, BlackBerry is just making it easier to pirate Android apps. That's so sad.
    This is why I'm assuming there has to be some sort of talks behind the scene.
    11-12-13 10:42 AM
  7. 00stryder's Avatar
    In the first sentence, you acknowledge that Google can't do it without developer permission. In the second sentence you allude to Google doing just that with some kind of mystery agreement with BBRY. It can't be both ways.

    Any APK's in BBWorld would have to be moved there by whoever holds the rights to the app. 99.9% of the time, that would be the owner/developer of the app. Additionally, any apps that utilize the Play Store Services to enforce DRM will be unlikely candidates unless the developer specifically makes modifications to port their app over (usually only paid apps fall in this scenario).


    Okay, I see where I went wrong. I made too far of a jump from one to the other without explaining what (I think) would happen in between.

    So there are these apps on Google's Play Store that BlackBerry would like to populate the BlackBerry World store. If the two sides reach an agreement, Google would serve as an ambassador on behalf of BlackBerry to request permission from app developers to include their apps (as they currently stand and requiring no further modification by the dev, as it appears that 10.2.1 allows direct installation of .apk files) on World. So, going back to what I said originally:

    1) BlackBerry and Google reach an agreement to officially support Play Store apps in BlackBerry World (nothing has actually happened yet though).
    2) Google agrees to request, on BlackBerry's behalf, from devs that their apps be considered for inclusion in BB World (still nothing has happened, and the devs can easily say no at this point).
    3) With dev permission, those selected apps would then be linked from the Play Store directly to World, so that if the dev pulls the app or releases an update on the Play Store, the changes appear instantaneously in World. (I'm not really sure how app reviews, payments, and customer service from BlackBerry users would work in this case, though.) It looks like all the heavy lifting of installing (and/or converting the .apk file to a supported format) is handled client-side on the device itself running 10.2.1 and up.

    By now though, I hope most of you see that these are just ramblings of an overly optimistic BlackBerry user, lol. There's so much that could go wrong with this arrangement, as I've said before, and really there's little incentive for Google to throw BlackBerry a bone like this unless there's massive compensation in return (the patents were suggested before, but I don't know how legal that would be).

    So either way, the latest OS update allows those of us that currently use BlackBerry an easier method of sideloading Android apps, which is technically not supported by BlackBerry. That's okay with me if that's all it ends up to be, but I really think that there's more to this story.

    Posted via CB10
    arvind1983 likes this.
    11-12-13 11:04 AM
  8. wincyUt's Avatar
    How can BlackBerry stop a rumour? Was Pres Obama able to shut down the "birther" rumour? SMH.

    Totally disagree. If there is no substance at all to this story BlackBerry needs to shut it down now! This is not a positive news story. Besides us BlackBerry users the general public doesn't even care. The only thing this can do if not true is make current users finally be fed up with nothing positive coming from BlackBerry and help them decide to switch platforms. It will become another waiting for nothing moment from BlackBerry. At this point not addressing it is just as bad as putting it out there themselves
    11-12-13 11:25 AM
  9. app_Developer's Avatar
    :
    1) BlackBerry and Google reach an agreement to officially support Play Store apps in BlackBerry World (nothing has actually happened yet though).
    2) Google agrees to request, on BlackBerry's behalf, from devs that their apps be considered for inclusion in BB World (still nothing has happened, and the devs can easily say no at this point).
    3) With dev permission, those selected apps would then be linked from the Play Store directly to World, so that if the dev pulls the app or releases an update on the Play Store, the changes appear instantaneously in World.
    That would be fair. Maybe Google can add a "place app in affiliate app stores" checkbox when we upload apps.

    That would make it easy and respect everyone's rights. Good idea!

    Also BB should have an office in major cities like SF, London, and NY where developers who choose to check the box can test their apps on the Q and Z screens on different versions of BB10.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    00stryder likes this.
    11-12-13 12:14 PM
  10. bobauckland's Avatar
    That would be fair. Maybe Google can add a "place app in affiliate app stores" checkbox when we upload apps.

    That would make it easy and respect everyone's rights. Good idea!

    Also BB should have an office in major cities like SF, London, and NY where developers who choose to check the box can test their apps on the Q and Z screens on different versions of BB10.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    Sounds like it would take effort.
    I can't help thinking now they'll just make it easier to pirate android apps and try and solve their app problems that way.
    I really hope that isn't the case, as it would make BlackBerry look pretty bad.

    Posted via CB10
    solitude1984 likes this.
    11-12-13 12:16 PM
  11. app_Developer's Avatar
    Sounds like it would take effort.
    I can't help thinking now they'll just make it easier to pirate android apps and try and solve their app problems that way.
    I really hope that isn't the case, as it would make BlackBerry look pretty bad.
    I see Microsoft salespeople and developer relations folks at least once a month. You can just imagine the talking point. "You can't take BlackBerry seriously anymore, and they just put out an update to help their users pirate your Android apps without your permission anyway. So forget them and work with us. Our user base is growing, we have the best tools..."

    Let's good BlackBerry understands the long term value of good developer relations.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    11-12-13 12:29 PM
  12. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    I think Kevin is right...they chose their words carefully.
    What they are saying is you won't see a Google Play menu item..but with the ability to directly install apk files, they could easily separate by having their "built for BlackBerry" and "Android" categories in BlackBerry World and have most/all of the apps from Google Play listed....In essence the same thing as having Google Play, but still "officially" not supporting Google Play. The integrated approach would make much more sense than having BlackBerry World and Google Play icons.

    Screenshots (if real) of Google Play could just be the Dev testing before the BlackBerry World integration work is complete.
    I wonder if BBRY would (be allowed to) host the APK files directly in App World assuming they could all run in an unlocked Android run time?
    11-12-13 01:13 PM
  13. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    I know it's not something that Google can do without permission from the app owners themselves, and that's not what I was implying. What I meant was that like we heard several months back that some unknown third party was going to convert a large number of Android apps for BB10, the function of migrating the apps over from the Play Store may be something that Google handles themselves as part of whatever agreement is being worked on right now.

    Posted via CB10
    If the APK to BAR conversion process were completely eliminated, and BBRY could confirm full functionality of an APK on their devices, why would any dev not allow their app to be hosted in app world? Unless they were purely trying to spite BBRY for some reason. Take out any work required on the dev's side, and also confirm functionality for them. All they'd need to do is sign-off.

    Dev's can you chime in on the above scenario please? What would make you object to the above?
    arvind1983 likes this.
    11-12-13 01:16 PM
  14. jhimmel's Avatar
    You know what. Do me a favor. Don't discourage the folks that hear things that might be true from posting. We don't know what might come of this. And this isn't just about you...in other words I'm not attacking you. But, I have no interest in the forums becoming the place where the skeptics who demonize the folks who have information are suddenly running the show. If you don't think it's true then so be it. But everyone chill on the witch hunts and the outing of those who do not "speak the truth".

    Posted via CB10
    Sorry, can't help you there. I don't mind people coming and talking about what "might" be true. But I'm getting a little tired of all the people coming in here stating rumors as FACT, and doing it with with plenty of attitude on top. Reminds me of those who were claiming that XBBM was canceled, and several people claimed to have multiple sources to back up those claims. God forbid you questioned or doubted them. If someone doesn't want to be called out on their claims, then maybe try a little humility when delivering the news, and maybe don't talk about rubbing it in people's faces when you are "right". I see thread after thread from people claiming to be in the know. Most of the threads are negative, and most prove wrong in the end. A lot of those threads get so contentious that they get closed, and the OP is never held accountable for his provocative claims and abrasive manner. This time the news was positive for BB (at least to many), but it doesn't make the behaviour right. People riding on rumors should lighten their touch a little. Don't agree with me? Oh well...
    11-12-13 01:38 PM
  15. bb4life21's Avatar
    How can BlackBerry stop a rumour? Was Pres Obama able to shut down the "birther" rumour? SMH.
    Very simple..by releasing an official statement saying it's not true like they did. I know it's hard but try to keep up.
    DenverRalphy likes this.
    11-12-13 01:44 PM
  16. app_Developer's Avatar
    If the APK to BAR conversion process were completely eliminated, and BBRY could confirm full functionality of an APK on their devices, why would any dev not allow their app to be hosted in app world? Unless they were purely trying to spite BBRY for some reason. Take out any work required on the dev's side, and also confirm functionality for them. All they'd need to do is sign-off.

    Dev's can you chime in on the above scenario please? What would make you object to the above?
    There are still a few things we would have to do. They aren't huge, and we would probably do these:

    1. Make sure settings relative to push notifications are disabled in the app and see that users understand that these notifications only work on real Android devices

    2. Replace our mapviews with Web views. (been meaning to do that anyway)

    3. Find an acceptable alternative to our custom encryption libraries.

    4. Amend our ads for the apps so that features that don't work on BB are clearly marked as "iPhone, iPad, and Android devices only"

    5. Get all of the above, and the BlackBerry developer agreements approved by legal and consumer affairs.

    Those are just off the top of my head. Like I said, these we can probably do.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    00stryder and dalinxz like this.
    11-12-13 02:13 PM
  17. 00stryder's Avatar
    That would be fair. Maybe Google can add a "place app in affiliate app stores" checkbox when we upload apps.

    That would make it easy and respect everyone's rights. Good idea!

    Also BB should have an office in major cities like SF, London, and NY where developers who choose to check the box can test their apps on the Q and Z screens on different versions of BB10.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    I like your idea here, thanks for joining in on my madness!

    But seriously, this would be really cool if BlackBerry and Google teamed up in some fashion. I don't recall Google being one of the potential suitors (included in the M$ and Apple group) that wanted to buy pieces of BlackBerry, so perhaps they're secretly rooting for them. After all, Google's real bread and butter is advertising and selling/distributing information, in which BlackBerry isn't really a direct competitor.

    If the APK to BAR conversion process were completely eliminated, and BBRY could confirm full functionality of an APK on their devices, why would any dev not allow their app to be hosted in app world? Unless they were purely trying to spite BBRY for some reason. Take out any work required on the dev's side, and also confirm functionality for them. All they'd need to do is sign-off.
    I can't speak for any devs, but you're right that the added work is likely not something a lot of devs are actively seeking. As a consumer, the most likely reason for a dev to take part would be to increase their market, without necessarily dedicating time and resources to building for an entirely different platform. Although, they would still have customer inquiries about BB10-specific issues so that's certainly a possible turnoff for them.

    Posted via CB10
    11-12-13 02:32 PM
  18. app_Developer's Avatar
    Although, they would still have customer inquiries about BB10-specific issues so that's certainly a possible turnoff for them.
    Some examples of questions we would have to handle specific to BlackBerry if we were officially in their store:

    1. According to our survey data, BB6 and BB7 account for 92% of our customers who say BB is their primary device. So if we say we're back in BBWorld again, those are a lot of potentially angry customers. People forget how many of BB customers are buying brand new BB7 phones, not BB10.

    2. We are piloting NFC payments with some customers. That doesn't work with all phones anyway, but it could be confusing in this case because these phones actually have NFC. We just can't get to it. So people will ask about that.

    3. Some of our layouts would be confusing on the Q phones, because important information would be below the immediately visible scroll area. We either have to make new square layouts or field questions/issues such as "you never told me you only recognized my check as $X"


    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    00stryder likes this.
    11-12-13 02:53 PM
  19. Bla1ze's Avatar
    And now it has all been confirmed, SOMETHING is in the works. eg: direct installation of APK files. Lmao!
    11-12-13 03:13 PM
  20. Tehedra's Avatar
    Many have stated that the permission would be required from the Application Developers. I am pretty sure that when you submit an application to the Google Play store you submit it to the store and the rights to it. If GOOGLE decides that the Google Play store is going to work on a new a tablet; they do not ask every developer for permission. If Google decides to port Google Play to work with a new Android OS system they build for computers; again no permission needed if its still Google Play. So, if Google really is working with BlackBerry to provide Google Play services to the BBWorld and if the Apps stated (Google Play) or something on the icon I do not believe they would need permission from the developers. It would be up to Google to allow Google Play or not; and as long as the Unlocked Android Runtime works to pass the test that must be passed to run Google Play on your device or version of Android. Than google can go ahead and say yes, so if I were BlackBerry(RIM) I would work with Google on doing the tests and figuring out what tests don't work and why so that those tests can be passed and Google Play can be implemented.

    Would be interesting; I prefer "Built for BlackBerry" apps but, if I had access to all of Google Play and all BlackBerry Apps. The argument in regards to Apps is no longer a problem. I would assume if Google Play is implemented, the Android Apps also would all function and this would be because of the unlocked Android Runtime along with the work done to ensure those tests succeed.

    The final question would be what Operating System do you prefer, and on what phone? Hell if BlackBerry could monitize this properly, they could even try to say if an app is paid for in BBWorld we take 10% of the cash that Google takes from the developer. Would be interesting.
    11-12-13 04:01 PM
  21. cgk's Avatar
    Hell if BlackBerry could monitize this properly, they could even try to say if an app is paid for in BBWorld we take 10% of the cash that Google takes from the developer. Would be interesting.
    Come on... we are into outright fairy stories now - how does a company like BBRY that is fighting for its life, has falling sales and absolutely no clout make that sort of deal with google?

    It's like a 140 pound man with no experience trying to wrestle The Rock.
    notfanboy and 00stryder like this.
    11-12-13 04:13 PM
  22. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    There are still a few things we would have to do. They aren't huge, and we would probably do these:

    1. Make sure settings relative to push notifications are disabled in the app and see that users understand that these notifications only work on real Android devices

    2. Replace our mapviews with Web views. (been meaning to do that anyway)

    3. Find an acceptable alternative to our custom encryption libraries.

    4. Amend our ads for the apps so that features that don't work on BB are clearly marked as "iPhone, iPad, and Android devices only"

    5. Get all of the above, and the BlackBerry developer agreements approved by legal and consumer affairs.

    Those are just off the top of my head. Like I said, these we can probably do.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    Thanks for chiming in.

    As I am not a developer, it is good to hear it from a developers perspective. Hopefully BBRY can clear as many hurdles as possible related to porting an app from Android. If they can do this, then I can see more apps get ported over.
    11-12-13 04:21 PM
  23. Vorkosigan's Avatar
    Many have stated that the permission would be required from the Application Developers. I am pretty sure that when you submit an application to the Google Play store you submit it to the store and the rights to it. If GOOGLE decides that the Google Play store is going to work on a new a tablet; they do not ask every developer for permission. If Google decides to port Google Play to work with a new Android OS system they build for computers; again no permission needed if its still Google Play. So, if Google really is working with BlackBerry to provide Google Play services to the BBWorld and if the Apps stated (Google Play) or something on the icon I do not believe they would need permission from the developers. It would be up to Google to allow Google Play or not; and as long as the Unlocked Android Runtime works to pass the test that must be passed to run Google Play on your device or version of Android. Than google can go ahead and say yes, so if I were BlackBerry(RIM) I would work with Google on doing the tests and figuring out what tests don't work and why so that those tests can be passed and Google Play can be implemented.
    This was the question that came to my mind. I'm not a Dev so I have no idea what kind of agreement Devs have to sign with Google, but if it's anything like the agreements with other Google services then you give up all rights to your intellectual property.

    Posted via CB10
    11-12-13 05:29 PM
  24. app_Developer's Avatar
    This was the question that came to my mind. I'm not a Dev so I have no idea what kind of agreement Devs have to sign with Google, but if it's anything like the agreements with other Google services then you give up all rights to your intellectual property.
    That is definitely not the case with Google Play. If it were the case, all apps and movies and music would be on Apple's store only. No company in its right mind is going to hand over all IP to Google or anyone else.

    What we do grant Google is a non-exclusive license to copy, promote and distribute the app in the market, where market is defined clearly as distribution directly to Android end users. I see nothing in the agreement which would allow Google to distribute the apps in their catalog to other resellers or other markets.
    Vorkosigan likes this.
    11-12-13 06:43 PM
  25. Bbnivende's Avatar
    And now it has all been confirmed, SOMETHING is in the works. eg: direct installation of APK files. Lmao!
    Great but most BlackBerry owners ... the vast majority , want to go to a spot like BlackBerry World or Google Play and download their paid and free apps.
    11-12-13 08:27 PM
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