06-03-15 10:01 AM
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  1. lnichols's Avatar
    And Cisco is a weird company. They are using QNX or the CRS one routers, but have a Linux based OS on some routers now, IOS-XE, traditional IOS that they are probably phasing out. They have desk phones running Android, and their regular phones that are running their own OS are a security nightmare and horribly compromised. So there is a relationship with QNX, but they seem to have zero interest in working with BlackBerry. Cisco is also mentioned by Chen in that article too.

    Posted with my Z30
    05-20-15 07:26 PM
  2. lnichols's Avatar
    I don't think he was inferring sap buy BlackBerry. The article he linked is a really in depth with Chen where he gives up the secret sauce on sybase. What he is saying is Chen is currently using the same strategy he used at sybase keep the current business on life support while looking for a next generation business. It may not have anything to do phones or mobile operating systems. BlackBerry may end up as some kind security middle ware developer for iot or whatever. Chen isn't married to the BlackBerry we are on this forum discussing everyday. Right now he is killing time throwing darts at the board hopping something sticks.

    Posted via CB10
    Yeah pretty much this. The other worrying thing is that after reading the article, it seems like he lucked into things all working out there. Couldn't tell sales what they were saying they were. The thing is what may have worked in that case might not work here, but he seems to be doing the same template, which could be a complete debacle. I mean he could have just got lucky at Sybase and not be this turn around artist, he just happen to turn them around.

    Posted with my Z30
    05-20-15 07:42 PM
  3. XP7051V3's Avatar
    I posted something in another thread that had an interview with Chen while at Sybase just before the SAP merger. He basically did the same thing. Let the businesses that existed run without much change, dwindle. Attach the company to some grandiose idea that doesn't really have an identity (IOT), and wait to find the right company to buy that puts you in that grandiose idea and define it. My guess is he is waiting to figure out what the next move is via an acquisition. I don't think he sees handsets as being anything other than the thing he has to keep going until the next thing presents itself to him. I was kinda stunned reading the interview and seeing how things are pretty stagnant, almost regressive, since he took over on the Bb10 and hardware side.

    Posted with my Z30
    I 100% agree. There is only one fitting buyer that will scoop these guys up for their enterprise suite and security legacy. That is Samsung. Simple as that. I see this happening before September rolls around. I will point back to this post in a couple months to tell you guys I told you so.

    Ps. The Canadian government will not get involved this time. Canada + South Korea = BFF

    Posted via CB10
    05-20-15 07:45 PM
  4. bicyclexpress's Avatar
    BlackBerry's approach to the smartphone market under Chen has been remarkably confusing and confidence-sapping.

    His initial inability to come out and clearly affirm his dedication to hardware and BB10 was harmful. Yeah, I get that when a company is seriously hurting all cards are on the table. But, having the perception out there that BlackBerry is willing to axe hardware while still developing new phones is brand suicide. It was not on the level of Heins putting a for sale sign out, but it was still remarkably damaging.

    Yeah, Apple and Android are running away with the show, but BlackBerry had (and I still think has) the ability to carve out its own unique and innovative niche. Heaving half-hearted and scattered lobs at a dart board certainly will not do it, though.

    Posted via CB10
    crackberry_geek likes this.
    05-20-15 08:51 PM
  5. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    Yeah pretty much this. The other worrying thing is that after reading the article, it seems like he lucked into things all working out there. Couldn't tell sales what they were saying they were. The thing is what may have worked in that case might not work here, but he seems to be doing the same template, which could be a complete debacle. I mean he could have just got lucky at Sybase and not be this turn around artist, he just happen to turn them around.

    Posted with my Z30
    Are you saying that BlackBerry under Chen (and Company) is essentially coasting, lol? Or are you specifically saying that about the hardware division (ie BlackBerry handsets). Either way, I'm not seeing it. Regardless of any traction (or lack thereof), I've seen a lot of initiatives, predominantly in software, since Chen took the reins.

    There seems to be a meme that Chen just got lucky at Sybase (right person as the right time, etc).

    Has anyone bothered to check out his full history and resume? I'm not saying that he's infallible by any means, but he has pretty impressive credentials, all things considered. Writing him off as someone that's coasting on one lucky success is underselling him by a longshot, imho.
    Last edited by Reaney; 05-20-15 at 09:11 PM.
    05-20-15 08:58 PM
  6. lnichols's Avatar
    Are you saying that BlackBerry under Chen (and Company) is essentially coasting, lol? Or are you specifically saying that about the hardware division (ie BlackBerry handsets). Either way, I'm not seeing it. Regardless of any traction (or lack thereof), I've seen a lot of initiatives, predominantly in software, since Chen took the reins.

    There seems to be a meme that Chen just got lucky at Sybase (right person as the right time, etc).

    Has anyone bothered to check out his full history and resume? I'm not saying that he's infallible by any means, but he has pretty impressive credentials, all things considered. Writing him off as someone that's coasting on one lucky success is underselling him by a longshot, imho.
    No in his own interview he basically implied he was coasting with the existing Sybase business until the Powersoft acquisition. Yes I believe that BlackBerry's hardware division is coasting. The Classic is a Q10 with a tool belt. The Passport was developed before he got there. The Leap is a Z10 with fewer sensors and a larger screen. They are doing the minimum right now, I'd even say below minimum on the hardware side. And their software efforts are all to bring the BlackBerry Experience to the competition. So do nothing for people that bought your hardware, and bring the experience of that hardware to the platforms they could have chosen over BlackBerry. So yeah BlackBerry going software is worthless to me and my all touch BB10 device, especially with their poor software track record over the years.

    Posted with my Z30
    05-20-15 09:23 PM
  7. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    No in his own interview he basically implied he was coasting with the existing Sybase business until the Powersoft acquisition. Yes I believe that BlackBerry's hardware division is coasting. The Classic is a Q10 with a tool belt. The Passport was developed before he got there. The Leap is a Z10 with fewer sensors and a larger screen. They are doing the minimum right now, I'd even say below minimum on the hardware side. And their software efforts are all to bring the BlackBerry Experience to the competition. So do nothing for people that bought your hardware, and bring the experience of that hardware to the platforms they could have chosen over BlackBerry. So yeah BlackBerry going software is worthless to me and my all touch BB10 device, especially with their poor software track record over the years.

    Posted with my Z30
    Okay, just wanted to know what you meant, thanks. What you're saying is basically what Chen has said publicly already. I was on board for the Passport when I heard about it and actually watched the launch. As I recall, one of the first things he said about the Passport was that he had nothing to do with it other than he didn't 'kill it'. Actually, I've found him to be pretty straightforward.

    The Leap is a mid to low spec'd device, no doubt about it. In my opinion, they had to release it in the face of the ever lower bar on Android devices. Asus just released the Zenphone 2 in Canada for $379 with Samsung Galaxy S6 specs. How is BlackBerry expected to compete on that level given their current situation? Actually, how is Samsung and other high end Android OEMs expected to compete, even with their larger treasure chests, lol.

    The next high spec'd device will be the Slider complete with pkb. It almost certainly won't be priced below $500 (I'm sure) given that BlackBerry isn't eligible for the same volume discounts on hardware that Apple or Samsung can command. Personally I hope that they found a way to release the Slider concurrent with an equivalent all touch device but that's certainly not a given.

    Given the realities on the hardware front, that leaves software as an avenue of growth for BlackBerry. It's going to come at the expense of hardware in the near future. Frankly, given the low volume sales, I'm surprised that BlackBerry under Chen is going to release the Slider and not just stick to 'lifeline' devices like the Leap and lower spec'd Classic.

    If that's not enough for you, and you enjoy BB10, you should be happy that Chen is looking to bring some of those features cross platform and you will be able to buy a super high spec'd and super cheap Android device and still be able to BBM, Hub, and whatever else in the near future.
    05-20-15 09:46 PM
  8. lawguyman's Avatar
    Is anyone surprised if Leap and Classic are not selling well? Both are throwbacks with ancient specs.

    It is obvious that Chen has neglected the hardware business.

    His phones, Leap and Classic, are such duds that they don't inspire much enthusiasm here on Crackberry.

    Passport, a Heins product, was never given any marketing support. That is, much like every other BlackBerry in the past few years, BlackBerry made no effort to convince anyone to buy it.

    I like that Chen has been blunt and honest. The company is no longer bleeding money. That's good. But, the obvious thing here is that he doesn't seem to be a great salesman. He has also been so cautious with money that BB10 development seems to have stopped and BlackBerry doesn't have the confidence in itself to build a high end all touch device - the most popular form factor by far - and thus the largest market with the biggest sales potential. Chen is content to pick up the scraps - people who still want a pkb.

    To grow a business, you have to invest in it. That means taking a risk. Chen is too risk averse and the decisions he has made - Classic and Leap - have been bad.






    Posted via CB10
    05-21-15 07:34 AM
  9. ubizmo's Avatar
    To grow a business, you have to invest in it.
    And that is consistent with some of the comments in this thread, to the effect that Chen's plan isn't about growing the business, but only stabilizing it until someone buys it.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt and techvisor like this.
    05-21-15 08:03 AM
  10. lnichols's Avatar
    Okay, just wanted to know what you meant, thanks. What you're saying is basically what Chen has said publicly already. I was on board for the Passport when I heard about it and actually watched the launch. As I recall, one of the first things he said about the Passport was that he had nothing to do with it other than he didn't 'kill it'. Actually, I've found him to be pretty straightforward.

    The Leap is a mid to low spec'd device, no doubt about it. In my opinion, they had to release it in the face of the ever lower bar on Android devices. Asus just released the Zenphone 2 in Canada for $379 with Samsung Galaxy S6 specs. How is BlackBerry expected to compete on that level given their current situation? Actually, how is Samsung and other high end Android OEMs expected to compete, even with their larger treasure chests, lol.

    The next high spec'd device will be the Slider complete with pkb. It almost certainly won't be priced below $500 (I'm sure) given that BlackBerry isn't eligible for the same volume discounts on hardware that Apple or Samsung can command. Personally I hope that they found a way to release the Slider concurrent with an equivalent all touch device but that's certainly not a given.

    Given the realities on the hardware front, that leaves software as an avenue of growth for BlackBerry. It's going to come at the expense of hardware in the near future. Frankly, given the low volume sales, I'm surprised that BlackBerry under Chen is going to release the Slider and not just stick to 'lifeline' devices like the Leap and lower spec'd Classic.

    If that's not enough for you, and you enjoy BB10, you should be happy that Chen is looking to bring some of those features cross platform and you will be able to buy a super high spec'd and super cheap Android device and still be able to BBM, Hub, and whatever else in the near future.
    How is a low spec'd device at $279 or $375 in Canada, going to compete with a monster spec'd device at $379. Makes zero sense. Samsung still sells more devices at their higher points. If the Leap were maybe $199 or less, then you might get a little more traction, but it costs close to the same as the high spec'd device. Funny how Apple has defended it's high price position with quality, yearly releases, and the highest rated customer satisfaction in the industry, and BlackBerry has to release low end devices to compete against high end ones?! Are they competing with that strategy?

    BlackBerry has only released one high end device in the history of the company, the Passport. It wasn't bleeding edge specs and it is a poor data point because it is such a polarizing design, form factor, and has a PKB which the market has decided is more of minus than a plus in today's smart phone. The slider might be a device, but again look at how many BB10 all touch people here have stated that they don't want a slider over a pure all touch, and then extrapolate it out to the general market. If your own all touch base isn't excited, then how will the competitions all touch base going to be excited. They needed the high end all touch device when 10.3 and Passport launched, not over a year later as the base further declined and the brand BlackBerry further slipped into irrelevance.

    As for BlackBerry software on other platforms, it will likely only be on Enterprise. BBM would be the only thing I load, if that because it has been going downhill since monetization over building a base took over as the mantra at BlackBerry. It is no longer a communications tool as much as it is a sticker and subscription pusher tool. The hub is cool and I love it, but 99% of the market got by without it, and after BlackBerry has been such a stellar company to work with through the PlayBook and BB10 launch, I'll just say goodbye at that point. They have been horrible to their customers and told us indirectly we are no longer a target customer anyway. I'm sure their software on the other platforms will be just as buggy and beta like as it was on their own and further tarnish the brand image further. I fail to see how a company with atrocious software rollouts tied to its own hardware and services is now going to suddenly be successful with software on hardware and OS they have zero control over.

    Posted with my Z30
    05-21-15 08:11 AM
  11. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    You know there has to be a LOT of pressure on the engineers trying to get the "BlackBerry Experience" software working on iOS and Android.....
    05-21-15 09:49 AM
  12. lnichols's Avatar
    You know there has to be a LOT of pressure on the engineers trying to get the "BlackBerry Experience" software working on iOS and Android.....
    And what's going to happen at the next iOS update after the launch? When iOS 8 launched it took Pioneer about 6 months to work out a keyboard issue on their AppRadio Platform. Are Enterprises going to deal with the BlackBerry Experience they bought suddenly not working with the latest iOS or Android upgrade? According to people here BlackBerry doesn't have the money or resources to improve the situation on their own devices quickly, but now they are going to become a premiere, cross platform, business phone software supplier? Chen better have a lot of acquisitions ready to pull that off.

    Posted with my Z30
    05-21-15 10:19 AM
  13. trsbbs's Avatar
    This coming from the same RBC that said there was "meaningful demand" for the Z10 and Q10 two years ago. We know how sales turned out for the Z10.
    Sales of the Z10 dwarf the sales of the PP or the Classic. . Over production was the issue with the Z10

    There was meaningful demand but BB went nuts on production.
    Initial sales were strong so BB increased production. The sales slowed for the Z10.



    Via my HTC One M9...
    kbz1960 and MarsupilamiX like this.
    05-21-15 10:20 AM
  14. lawguyman's Avatar
    And that is consistent with some of the comments in this thread, to the effect that Chen's plan isn't about growing the business, but only stabilizing it until someone buys it.
    He's done things beyond stabilizing in the software department. He has put together sales teams. He is investing in software, mostly BES12. I have been following the job postings on BlackBerry's website. You can see where BlackBerry has been hiring and where it has not been.

    Hiring on the device end has been minimal.

    Posted via CB10
    05-21-15 10:20 AM
  15. birdman_38's Avatar
    You know there has to be a LOT of pressure on the engineers trying to get the "BlackBerry Experience" software working on iOS and Android.....
    ...if they are to deliver it by Chen's stated December goal, which seems highly unlikely. Unless they've enlisted the help of Samsung to expedite it for the Android version.
    05-21-15 10:27 AM
  16. lnichols's Avatar
    Sales of the Z10 dwarf the sales of the PP or the Classic. . Over production was the issue with the Z10

    There was meaningful demand but BB went nuts on production.
    Initial sales were strong so BB increased production. The sales slowed for the Z10.



    Via my HTC One M9...
    It's useless to bring up facts to the PKB champions. Chen only reinforces their misconceptions with unsubstantiated statements and smoke blown up their backsides. After next week BlackBerry will go back into the quiet period before the June 20 something call where they will get another dose of Chen's truthiness.

    Posted with my Z30
    05-21-15 10:39 AM
  17. birdman_38's Avatar
    Chen only reinforces their misconceptions with unsubstantiated statements and smoke blown up their backsides. After next week BlackBerry will go back into the quiet period before the June 20 something call where they will get another dose of Chen's truthiness.
    You mean avoiding certain questions because the results are so bad? Lol
    05-21-15 10:43 AM
  18. lnichols's Avatar
    You mean avoiding certain questions because the results are so bad? Lol
    Yeah for a guy that's a turn around artist he never has "the numbers" for the information people want to know in front of him. Classic is outselling Passport 2 to 1, but you have no reference point for the twice of what. I expect this quarter to be a sales disaster, even with the Classic in full swing and everything he said about this device being what the customer wanted will be exposed for the sham it is.

    Posted with my Z30
    05-21-15 10:51 AM
  19. birdman_38's Avatar
    Yeah for a guy that's a turn around artist he never has "the numbers" for the information people want to know in front of him. Classic is outselling Passport 2 to 1, but you have no reference point for the twice of what. I expect this quarter to be a sales disaster, even with the Classic in full swing and everything he said about this device being what the customer wanted will be exposed for the sham it is.
    He'll be sure to bang the drum about the T-Mobile reconciliation. Lol
    techvisor likes this.
    05-21-15 11:10 AM
  20. lawguyman's Avatar
    There are no BlackBerry devices displayed in any local store, whether AT&T, Verizon, or T-Mobile.

    To get one, you already have to know you want it. You can't try it ahead of time.

    This really means enterprise sales.

    This is a test for Chen's team. They go into a meeting hoping to sell everything: BES12 and phones to go with it. Are they succeeding? RBC wouldnt have that info.

    Posted via CB10
    05-21-15 11:16 AM
  21. lnichols's Avatar
    There are no BlackBerry devices displayed in any local store, whether AT&T, Verizon, or T-Mobile.

    To get one, you already have to know you want it. You can't try it ahead of time.

    This really means enterprise sales.

    This is a test for Chen's team. They go into a meeting hoping to sell everything: BES12 and phones to go with it. Are they succeeding? RBC wouldnt have that info.

    Posted via CB10
    Don't worry, Chen won't have those numbers in front of him either when asked.

    Posted with my Z30
    techvisor and eyesopen1111 like this.
    05-21-15 11:28 AM
  22. birdman_38's Avatar
    Classic is outselling Passport 2 to 1, but you have no reference point for the twice of what.
    That is a scary thought considering the high amount of R&D that went into the Passport. It truly is an obscure niche device.
    05-21-15 11:31 AM
  23. kbz1960's Avatar
    Sales of the Z10 dwarf the sales of the PP or the Classic. . Over production was the issue with the Z10

    There was meaningful demand but BB went nuts on production.
    Initial sales were strong so BB increased production. The sales slowed for the Z10.



    Via my HTC One M9...
    I see you finally moved to an M9. Hope you like it.
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    05-21-15 11:43 AM
  24. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    How is a low spec'd device at $279 or $375 in Canada, going to compete with a monster spec'd device at $379. Makes zero sense. Samsung still sells more devices at their higher points. If the Leap were maybe $199 or less, then you might get a little more traction, but it costs close to the same as the high spec'd device. Funny how Apple has defended it's high price position with quality, yearly releases, and the highest rated customer satisfaction in the industry, and BlackBerry has to release low end devices to compete against high end ones?! Are they competing with that strategy?
    It's not going to compete in the consumer market, not by a long shot, that's kinda the point. I don't know hard numbers on Android share in 'Enterprise' (a loose term that varies in definition), but I know it's been a struggle for Google's OS to gain traction in many closed shops because of security concerns - unlike Apple and BlackBerry (more so in the past obviously). Windows Phone, not sure.

    And in a BYOD environment Apple and Android are going to outpace BlackBerry no matter whether it's high spec'd or low spec'd, that's just the reality of the situation.

    I'd love to see BlackBerry release a high end all touch, thin, 64 bit, 1080p display (or higher), 5"+ device. But I don't think it's going to make a dent in their sales, and I'm sure that they would have to take a lower margin on every device sold because it would cost them significantly more to make that kind of device than the Leap or Classic. Even Samsung isn't doing so well with the S6 lineup, I pulled this just today:

    Samsung Silent On Disastrous Galaxy S6 Sales - Forbes

    So how is BlackBerry going to turn heads with a high end all touch when Samsung is struggling? And it's not just Samsung recently either, it's pretty much nail biting time with all of the major Android OEMs in the West because of the (mostly Asian I believe) high spec'd super cheap Android phones. That trend isn't going to reverse either. Ultimately it could even affect Apple once everyone upgrades to the larger 6 and 6+ form factor.

    Anyway, I agree with wanting to see better devices (beyond Passport and the Slider) but I think that's ultimately not going to make a significant difference for the company in the short term. I should point out that I DO think the Classic is a nice phone despite the lower specs, but caters to a much smaller market than all touch. The Leap? Well, I'm not planning on getting one personally, but I don't think I'm the target - it's obviously to provide an all touch alternative in regulated markets where they still sell devices and make a higher profit on each device sold.

    In order to grow hardware in the future, they have to grow out software first, and make some mooola. I don't see any way around it.

    As for BlackBerry software on other platforms, it will likely only be on Enterprise. BBM would be the only thing I load, if that because it has been going downhill since monetization over building a base took over as the mantra at BlackBerry. It is no longer a communications tool as much as it is a sticker and subscription pusher tool. The hub is cool and I love it, but 99% of the market got by without it, and after BlackBerry has been such a stellar company to work with through the PlayBook and BB10 launch, I'll just say goodbye at that point. They have been horrible to their customers and told us indirectly we are no longer a target customer anyway. I'm sure their software on the other platforms will be just as buggy and beta like as it was on their own and further tarnish the brand image further. I fail to see how a company with atrocious software rollouts tied to its own hardware and services is now going to suddenly be successful with software on hardware and OS they have zero control over.
    I agree on the stickers being annoying. And I also agree that their subscription pricing model is off the mark, imho. I think they'll eventually wise up to a more sensible model but right now it's overpriced for the featureset you receive. But I like BBM for all the non-subscription features and never used message retraction or timed messages even when it was free. I think video calling would be a good addition they should include for free on all platforms, but my guess is that Chen is holding back on that to try and drive up the BBM meetings subscriptions. If he can start making more money in other areas, I think you'll see BBM video calling, and possibly a trial version of BBM Meetings, or the ability to conference a few people (say 3 - 5) for free.

    Worst case scenario, if they don't make it in devices, I'd be open to paying for the Hub, a more reasonable pricing structure on BBM Meetings, BlackBerry Blend (if they could make it for iPhone and/or Android) and the BlackBerry virtual keyboard from all touch devices. I like BB10, I'd definitely miss the full featured quick settings, and active frames (prefer it over Apple and Google's solution) and of course the touch capacitive pkb with actions and shortcuts. Although they could possibly try and port that over to Android.
    05-21-15 06:57 PM
  25. z10Jobe's Avatar
    How is a low spec'd device at $279 or $375 in Canada, going to compete with a monster spec'd device at $379. Makes zero sense. Samsung still sells more devices at their higher points. If the Leap were maybe $199 or less, then you might get a little more traction, but it costs close to the same as the high spec'd device. Funny how Apple has defended it's high price position with quality, yearly releases, and the highest rated customer satisfaction in the industry, and BlackBerry has to release low end devices to compete against high end ones?! Are they competing with that strategy?

    BlackBerry has only released one high end device in the history of the company, the Passport. It wasn't bleeding edge specs and it is a poor data point because it is such a polarizing design, form factor, and has a PKB which the market has decided is more of minus than a plus in today's smart phone. The slider might be a device, but again look at how many BB10 all touch people here have stated that they don't want a slider over a pure all touch, and then extrapolate it out to the general market. If your own all touch base isn't excited, then how will the competitions all touch base going to be excited. They needed the high end all touch device when 10.3 and Passport launched, not over a year later as the base further declined and the brand BlackBerry further slipped into irrelevance.

    As for BlackBerry software on other platforms, it will likely only be on Enterprise. BBM would be the only thing I load, if that because it has been going downhill since monetization over building a base took over as the mantra at BlackBerry. It is no longer a communications tool as much as it is a sticker and subscription pusher tool. The hub is cool and I love it, but 99% of the market got by without it, and after BlackBerry has been such a stellar company to work with through the PlayBook and BB10 launch, I'll just say goodbye at that point. They have been horrible to their customers and told us indirectly we are no longer a target customer anyway. I'm sure their software on the other platforms will be just as buggy and beta like as it was on their own and further tarnish the brand image further. I fail to see how a company with atrocious software rollouts tied to its own hardware and services is now going to suddenly be successful with software on hardware and OS they have zero control over.

    Posted with my Z30
    Ummm.... have you checked say.... Bell or the Verizon customer ratings?

    Yers and mine beloved z30 bests a certain 6th iteration of an Apple phone in customer satisfaction ratings.

    Now.... I dare you to say something nice about bb.

    Flicked from my flicking excellent customer rated z30.

    Posted via CB10
    05-21-15 09:57 PM
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