01-28-13 01:39 PM
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  1. just_luc's Avatar
    I can't understand why people think BB10 phones will never crash (or shocked to hear that a restart is needed). QNX as implemented at nuclear power plants and cars is different compared to implementation on BB10. There's WAY more stuff going on in BB10 (and other phone OS') that can cause the phone to crash (most of the time is third party applications or crappy websites killing the ram on the browser). iPhones crash, WP8 phones crash, Android phone crash (a lot).
    Absolutely.. I think people forget just how much is going on inside their pocket sized computer.. there's nothing wrong with it needing a reboot every once in a while.. every single electronic device out there does. iphone, androids, PC's and mac computers all included.
    01-26-13 06:33 PM
  2. collinc93's Avatar
    the only issue I have ever had with BBs is looooooon boot up time....don't know what a phone crash is...car crashes yep
    01-26-13 08:46 PM
  3. kbz1960's Avatar
    There is one thing about QNX though - it has a microkernel, not a monolithic one like others do. Apps are free to crash but the kernel will stay alive. Also, with proper resource management crash of one app will have much harder time affecting another (still possible via shared resources but much lower risk).
    You know I keep seeing this said yet I've had my pb lock up where a 3 finger salute was needed more than a few times. I guess it's one of those high risk times when it does.
    01-26-13 08:53 PM
  4. BBPandy's Avatar
    Obviously it wouldn't be final, I'm sure that comes Jan.30th. But I'm sure it was as updated as anybody has used. And it didn't freeze. Another function failed that we couldn't resolve without a pull.
    What function failed?
    Can you give more detail?
    Your the first person I've heard who has had to do a battery pull on a BB10 Dev Device in months.
    01-26-13 09:12 PM
  5. kfh227's Avatar
    I can't understand why people think BB10 phones will never crash (or shocked to hear that a restart is needed). QNX as implemented at nuclear power plants and cars is different compared to implementation on BB10. There's WAY more stuff going on in BB10 (and other phone OS') that can cause the phone to crash (most of the time is third party applications or crappy websites killing the ram on the browser). iPhones crash, WP8 phones crash, Android phone crash (a lot).
    When writing software, there is no difference between running a power plant and a phone if you know how to write good application software. The problem is that some people are stupid and can't write an application to save themselves. The problem then becomes, how to make the OS such that it saves itself from stupid.
    dentynefire likes this.
    01-26-13 09:25 PM
  6. Andrew4life's Avatar
    The thing to remember too is that in most cases of needing a restart it isn't a problem with the OS, it is usually a third party app that causes the need for it. This regardless of device, smartphone, laptop, you name it...at somw point it is going to happen, one of those 1 is going to be read as a 0...
    Actually, the fact that a third party app causes your phone to lock up, means that the OS is bad at isolating the application from the OS. The operating system needs to make sure that it can manage the applications such that it gives specific permissions and resource allocation and if the app is not playing friendly, to kill the app elegantly (no memory leaks, no corruption of other apps, no corruption of the OS or any other storage).

    Bottom line is that if the OS is written well, it should not crash due to third party apps.
    (In most cases it won't be perfect because there are billions of lines of codes and you'll have someone **** something up eventually, but of course some will have fewer bugs than others)


    If it locks up because it accidentally read a 1 as a 0, e.g. erroneous reads/writes/data processing, that should really only happen 1 in a billion or so, and there should be code that tries to resolve errors like that. But that is really more of a hardware thing.
    01-26-13 10:15 PM
  7. GTiLeo's Avatar
    There is one thing about QNX though - it has a microkernel, not a monolithic one like others do. Apps are free to crash but the kernel will stay alive. Also, with proper resource management crash of one app will have much harder time affecting another (still possible via shared resources but much lower risk).
    the kernel itself can still crash, granted it doesn't do everything that a monolithic kernel does or a hybrid for that matter but the possibility of the kernel crashing is still there
    01-27-13 02:33 AM
  8. buwee's Avatar
    As fast as my Samsung SG3 is - there are noticable performace issues with it if I don't reboot it every 2 to 3 days - same thing with my Galaxy Tab 2 & the SG2 LTE that I had - I don't know what is it with Android O/S's - even with all that power it just doesn't feel as fluid as IOS devices. I've had the same issues with every version of Android that I have had so far which includes Gingerbread, ICS & Jellybean. Anyway, I can't wait for the Z10 so that I can dump the Androids.
    01-27-13 03:52 AM
  9. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    An interesting thing I heard about is you can reboot applications on their own if they start misbehaving.
    DJM626 likes this.
    01-27-13 04:05 AM
  10. BBPandy's Avatar
    An interesting thing I heard about is you can reboot applications on their own if they start misbehaving.
    yea thx to the micro-kernel
    01-27-13 04:34 AM
  11. greggebhardt's Avatar
    If we have to reboot our Z10 constantly in BB10, RIM will not be around very long.
    01-27-13 06:02 AM
  12. q649's Avatar
    If it makes you feel any better, I have a 2 day old Nexus 7 that rebooted itself immediately after installing an app yesterday.
    01-27-13 07:04 AM
  13. overzeer's Avatar
    Yes, I agree - I said so to. But smaller kernel = less stuff that can go wrong in it. Much of what is in the monolithic kernel in others would cause systemwide failure if any part of it crashes and cannot be recovered without a full reboot. In QNX all but microkernel can be reloaded on its own if it crashes (but I have no clue how far this fact is exploited or not).
    01-27-13 07:49 AM
  14. dentynefire's Avatar
    An interesting thing I heard about is you can reboot applications on their own if they start misbehaving.
    re-boot an application? I think that just means you close them and reopen them. I believe what they are saying is that the OS shouldn't lock up, allowing you to close and restart the app that's borked.
    01-27-13 08:57 AM
  15. crackedup77's Avatar
    - even with all that power it just doesn't feel as fluid as IOS devices. I've had the same issues with every version of Android that I have had so far which includes Gingerbread, ICS & Jellybean.
    For everyone who wants 38 cores in their phone in order to brag about it being the best thing since sliced bread, THIS. ^^

    I wish everyone would just shut the fcuk up first, wait til release date, actually USE the phone or see it in use, and then ask what's under the hood to see if it even matters. I'd bet 96% of posters here don't even know what cores are or what they do or why we would need multiple ones, but it's amazing that they know they need a crapload of them or else babies will die or something. It used to be funny. Now it's just getting sad.

    Kinda like wondering about the boot times of an OS version that isn't even released yet. The Dev version may be some indication, but it could get get better, could get worse, or could be the exact same to the nanosecond. Nobody really knows, do they?
    01-27-13 09:27 AM
  16. peter9477's Avatar
    When writing software, there is no difference between running a power plant and a phone if you know how to write good application software.
    Said a guy who's never written either... ;-)

    There's a good reason standards like IEC 62304 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia exist in the field of medical software, and similar ones with which I'm not as familiar in the areas of aerospace and nuclear power. They aren't generally followed when developing phone software, and there definitely is a difference in the approach taken.

    Knowing how to write good software is one thing... actually applying the discipline required to do it to the same level of quality is what is usually left out when lives are not at stake.

    You can count on sometimes, though less often than on competing platforms, needing to reboot BB10 from time to time. (As noted by others a battery pull is not technically required, however, since the 10s power-button press will always reset it.)
    01-27-13 09:43 AM
  17. BigBuffBerry's Avatar
    Somewhere around 40 secs i think is what we have seen. Much better than the 3-5 minutes on the old BBOS!

    Also you can reset the iphone by holding down a combination of buttons, you dont have to wait for the battery to die. Most all non removable battery devices have a button combo to rely on if needed.
    3-5 would be great. Mine has take over 30 minutes after a battery pull. I would say my average is 10.
    01-27-13 10:59 AM
  18. jagrlover's Avatar
    What function failed?
    Can you give more detail?
    Your the first person I've heard who has had to do a battery pull on a BB10 Dev Device in months.
    I don't want to go into too much detail because I don't want to get the person who let me play with the Z10 to get in any trouble. After the battery pull some screen came up asking to identify the reason for the reboot. If for some reason it really was a one in a million type thing, maybe it could out him.

    Here's what I can say. It wasn't n app that caused the problem. It was OS related, core function. It did not "lock up" or "freeze". Everything else on the device worked. We spent about a minute trying to resolve the problem. Maybe if we kept trying we might have been successful but I was interested in seeing the boot time so I suggested the pull.
    01-27-13 11:03 AM
  19. howarmat's Avatar
    well its not like we havent seen the calender lock up in the CES presentation and just go unresponsive. it happens and its nothing new to the world of tech. Granted it better not happen on stage on the 30th but it does and will happen to all devices
    Sith_Apprentice likes this.
    01-27-13 11:09 AM
  20. Rello's Avatar
    3-5 would be great. Mine has take over 30 minutes after a battery pull. I would say my average is 10.
    If it takes your phone that long, I'm pretty sure you'll be happy with whatever BB10's boot up time is lol
    01-27-13 11:19 AM
  21. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    Good news: restarted after a battery pull in less than a minute

    Bad news: needed a battery pull

    Anybody else witness a battery pull? I'm hoping I was the 1 in a million.

    You are still not running full code
    01-27-13 11:30 AM
  22. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    well its not like we havent seen the calender lock up in the CES presentation and just go unresponsive. it happens and its nothing new to the world of tech. Granted it better not happen on stage on the 30th but it does and will happen to all devices

    If it locks, it *should* recover, though the recovery process is an unknown time frame.
    01-27-13 11:31 AM
  23. Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes's Avatar
    You are still not running full code
    I like when people with a lot of posts put a smile face beside something like that
    Geeoff likes this.
    01-27-13 12:23 PM
  24. dentynefire's Avatar
    OP, can you tell us the function that was causing the problem?
    01-27-13 12:44 PM
  25. theegoldenone's Avatar
    OP, can you tell us the function that was causing the problem?
    See post #43
    01-27-13 12:55 PM
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