10-03-13 12:21 PM
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  1. Playbookjoe's Avatar
    Deleted, wrong forum.
    10-02-13 07:46 AM
  2. NYC10065's Avatar
    That's why I want the deal from Prem Watsa to go through ASAP. So that all the speculation can stop and they focus on their solution. I really think they need a big change in their management team, from top to bottom. Let go lots of incompetent managers and hire new blood.
    If and when the Watsa proposal closes, it will only stop the speculation about the fate of BBRY. It will only heighten the speculation about the future direction of BBRY.

    Going private means that even the minimal disclosure obligations BBRY currently has as a private company will be gone.

    BBRY is notoriously bad and inept with public and consumer communications. Just look at how they are handling communications for their BBM4ALL project. What do you expect after they go private?

    BBRY has failed to articulate a plan or a vision for its future since the release of BB10. Besides the constant spin about how great things are, what we see are constantly shifting priorities (BBM4ALL? BBM4NONE? Was that 6 or 4 devices?) which leave consumers (and investors) confused.

    And let's not forget that Watsa is not a strategic investor or partner for BBRY but a financial investor. His objective is to maximize his return/minimize the current loss in his BBRY investment.

    This is not Microsoft, HTC, Google or some other tech firm making a strategic acquisition so that they can purchase assets that they are interested in for future use or further development/exploitation. This is a financial investor looking at this transaction from purely a profit/loss/math/arithmetic perspective.
    xanadome likes this.
    10-02-13 07:49 AM
  3. jay_men's Avatar
    If and when the Watsa proposal closes, it will only stop the speculation about the fate of BBRY. It will only heighten the speculation about the future direction of BBRY.

    Going private means that even the minimal disclosure obligations BBRY currently has as a private company will be gone.

    BBRY is notoriously bad and inept with public and consumer communications. Just look at how they are handling communications for their BBM4ALL project. What do you expect after they go private?

    BBRY has failed to articulate a plan or a vision for its future since the release of BB10. Besides the constant spin about how great things are, what we see are constantly shifting priorities (BBM4ALL? BBM4NONE? Was that 6 or 4 devices?) which leave consumers (and investors) confused.

    And let's not forget that Watsa is not a strategic investor or partner for BBRY but a financial investor. His objective is to maximize his return/minimize the current loss in his BBRY investment.

    This is not Microsoft, HTC, Google or some other tech firm making a strategic acquisition so that they can purchase assets that they are interested in for future use or further development/exploitation. This is a financial investor looking at this transaction from purely a profit/loss/math/arithmetic perspective.
    Does Watsa's being known as a long term / value investor do anything for BlackBerry's situation or do you believe he will deviate from this reputation and flip the company in parts as many are saying?
    10-02-13 08:46 AM
  4. jay_men's Avatar
    If BlackBerry does go private, Heins will receive a compensation package worth as much as $55.6 million for less than two years at the helm of the company. The agreement was reached between Heins and a three-person committee earlier this year that included Watsa.
    Heins can only receive up to that total compensation if he is fired. That is not a forgone conclusion in light of Watsa playing a part of setting up the package and seemingly standing by him. But obviously it's much better to keep excluding the below detail because it sounds better otherwise

    "According to company filings, if Heins is terminated due to a change of ownership of BlackBerry, he'll receive $3 million to reflect his base salary, annual incentives worth about $4.5 million, and equity awards of $48 million."
    10-02-13 09:04 AM
  5. NYC10065's Avatar
    Does Watsa's being known as a long term / value investor do anything for BlackBerry's situation or do you believe he will deviate from this reputation and flip the company in parts as many are saying?
    I don't think Watsa is going to chop up BBRY since that doesn't appear to be his investment style. I do think, however, that this is as much about a financial play as it is about a future strategic investment. Unless we start to see more than just pension/hedge funds involved, I can't see how any of these investors have the wherewithal to make the strategic moves required.
    xanadome likes this.
    10-02-13 09:12 AM
  6. Blacklatino's Avatar
    From Globeandmail:
    Fairfax
    He said exactly what I think about Blackberry:
    Can it compete in the consumer market with Apple and Samsung and the Android? No, we think thats very tough. But in the enterprise market theyve got huge advantages.
    At least there is some honesty in the post. BlackBerry still has to go back to the drawing board and prove themselves to the carriers - again.
    10-02-13 09:13 AM
  7. jay_men's Avatar
    I don't think Watsa is going to chop up BBRY since that doesn't appear to be his investment style. I do think, however, that this is as much about a financial play as it is about a future strategic investment. Unless we start to see more than just pension/hedge funds involved, I can't see how any of these investors have the wherewithal to make the strategic moves required.
    Agreed. But it looks like Watsa's team possibly believes they have the wherewithal to do so behind closed doors. If anything, I believe it will be easier for them to make strategic decisions and following through going forward with less stakeholders / public eyes involved.
    10-02-13 10:07 AM
  8. bbq10l's Avatar
    What a bunch of bull.. What apps and content is BB10 "simply incapable of providing"?
    Quite simply the ones they haven't provided. It appears that they can't provide what people want which is why they are failing. The reaons they can't provide these don't really matter.

    Posted via CB10
    10-02-13 12:17 PM
  9. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Quite simply the ones they haven't provided. It appears that they can't provide what people want which is why they are failing. The reaons they can't provide these don't really matter.

    Posted via CB10
    Not providing them and incapable of providing them are two totally different. What apps and content are they simply incapable of providing? And it isn't Blackberry that isn't providing the content/apps, it is the companies who wrote the apps/content. Do you expect to go to the CEO of the company and put a gun to their head and demand it?
    10-02-13 12:22 PM
  10. bbq10l's Avatar
    If you are in business what apps are you talking about that you can securely use at work that your customers might have that you don't ? Instagram?, Netflix? Candy Crush? Please specify what apps you mean.

    Posted via CB10
    I can answer. I work in the medical field. The doctors have tons of apple medical apps- diagnostic manuals that are interactive; apps that can measure body functions; apps that pertain to drugs and drug interactions; etc. They no longer have to go in search of huge books which may not be readily available to them in the hospital. These apps are interactive and responsive to input. Any person in medical or drug sales will need these apps to understand what their customers use and need. Delta is buying Windows tablets for pilots so they can interactively use flight manuals instead of carrying huge manuals. I don't remember the number but Delta was even able to determine how much they save in annual fuel costs by lowering the number of physical manuals they have to carry. Anyone in aeronautics would need to have thses same apps. These people are "prosumers" and BlackBerry cannot compete. People want apps for professional and consumer use. BlackBerry WILL fail in the prosumer market if they can't figure this out.

    Posted via CB10
    xanadome and JeepBB like this.
    10-02-13 12:27 PM
  11. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    I can answer. I work in the medical field. The doctors have tons of apple medical apps- diagnostic manuals that are interactive; apps that can measure body functions; apps that pertain to drugs and drug interactions; etc. They no longer have to go in search of huge books which may not be readily available to them in the hospital. These apps are interactive and responsive to input. Any person in medical or drug sales will need these apps to understand what their customers use and need. Delta is buying Windows tablets for pilots so they can interactively use flight manuals instead of carrying huge manuals. I don't remember the number but Delta was even able to determine how much they save in annual fuel costs by lowering the number of physical manuals they have to carry. Anyone in aeronautics would need to have thses same apps. These people are "prosumers" and BlackBerry cannot compete. People want apps for professional and consumer use. BlackBerry WILL fail in the prosumer market if they can't figure this out.

    Posted via CB10
    Are those on phones or tablets? If tablets, then it is a mute point. They probably got some money from Apple to get them in place. But if they are on phones, there is no reason why BB10 phones couldn't have the same functionality.

    BUT, did Apple write the apps or a 3rd party? Most likely a 3rd party since it is up to developers who see a need and develop an app for that market. It isn't Apple or Blackberry's responsibility to develop the apps.

    BUT maybe that is what Blackberry must do. Sell application developer services to write the apps for business. But then, developers like myself would leave the market as we don't want to compete against BB.
    10-02-13 12:31 PM
  12. bbq10l's Avatar
    Not providing them and incapable of providing them are two totally different. What apps and content are they simply incapable of providing? And it isn't Blackberry that isn't providing the content/apps, it is the companies who wrote the apps/content. Do you expect to go to the CEO of the company and put a gun to their head and demand it?
    The point is they don't have them. If it takes putting a gun to the ceo's head to get the apps, the BlackBerry is worse off than we thought. I think you are taking that guy's comment too literally. If the companies won't make their apps for BlackBerry then yes, BlackBerry is "incapable" of providing them.

    Posted via CB10
    10-02-13 12:34 PM
  13. bbq10l's Avatar
    Are those on phones or tablets? If tablets, then it is a mute point. They probably got some money from Apple to get them in place. But if they are on phones, there is no reason why BB10 phones couldn't have the same functionality.

    BUT, did Apple write the apps or a 3rd party? Most likely a 3rd party since it is up to developers who see a need and develop an app for that market. It isn't Apple or Blackberry's responsibility to develop the apps.

    BUT maybe that is what Blackberry must do. Sell application developer services to write the apps for business. But then, developers like myself would leave the market as we don't want to compete against BB.
    There must be a reason BlackBerry doesn't have them - it's not about functionality - people don't want to develop for BlackBerry. That is the point. Please stop purposefully misunderstanding what we are saying. The apps for even prosumers are not there, and it doesn't matter why. If BlackBerry COULD have gotten the apps, they WOULD have gotten the apps. Functionality isn't the issue.

    Posted via CB10
    10-02-13 12:39 PM
  14. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    There must be a reason BlackBerry doesn't have them - it's not about functionality - people don't want to develop for BlackBerry. That is the point. Please stop purposefully misunderstanding what we are saying. The apps for even prosumers are not there, and it doesn't matter why. If BlackBerry COULD have gotten the apps, they WOULD have gotten the apps. Functionality isn't the issue.

    Posted via CB10
    I think you don't understand that this is not something that Blackberry can force companies to do. If a company doesn't want to release the app for BB10, please tell us all how this is Blackberry's fault and then if you still think it is their fault, please explain how you would force or coheres the company to release it. Even if you threw money at them and they didn't want to release it, how would you do it?
    10-02-13 12:47 PM
  15. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    The point is they don't have them. If it takes putting a gun to the ceo's head to get the apps, the BlackBerry is worse off than we thought. I think you are taking that guy's comment too literally. If the companies won't make their apps for BlackBerry then yes, BlackBerry is "incapable" of providing them.

    Posted via CB10
    No. Blackberry is not incapable of providing them. The software company doesn't want to release them. See the difference? You blame Blackberry when it is all in the hands of the software company.
    10-02-13 12:49 PM
  16. vgorous's Avatar
    Watsa is gonna throw money at the carriers and tell them to grow the f-up and sell bb10s.

    Posted via CB10
    10-02-13 05:42 PM
  17. Homo Erectus's Avatar
    What kills me is the leader [who has done nothing,NOTHING,] gets 55 million.........ya 55 MILLION when he leaves...................DISGUSTING!!!.....that $ could help a lot of people about to be out of work.
    10-02-13 06:01 PM
  18. southlander's Avatar
    Nobody has mentioned BB Balance yet. Its the obvious solution (great one too) to the consumer/business phone question.

    Not much discussion on the use of the Android player to provide access for consumer type apps AND business type apps for that matter.

    I think they can compete, personally. But they can't compete on leadership. BB has always had poor management with weak leadership; read: no strong helmsman at the wheel. I thought Mr. Heins would be but he simply is a back room guy. Nothing wrong with that however.

    Right now I'm not seeing a strong, workable vision being presented by Prem Watsa. Taking the company private is genius. With any luck they can come up the middle when Apple starts to grab all the headlines for a lack of innovation. Maybe that's all they plan lol
    The problem with BlackBerry Balance is for the "personal" side to have appeal you need the apps in BlackBerry World that someone would want installed for personal use. Instagram, Netflix, etc.

    The idea of balance is really cool. But you need all the apps for it to make sense.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.0.1443
    app_Developer likes this.
    10-02-13 06:09 PM
  19. Playbookjoe's Avatar
    ... Do you expect to go to the CEO of the company and put a gun to their head and demand it?
    At least then we would have Netflix. Get an intern to take one for the team.

    Posted via CB10
    10-02-13 08:25 PM
  20. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    This is not Microsoft, HTC, Google or some other tech firm making a strategic acquisition so that they can purchase assets that they are interested in for future use or further development/exploitation. This is a financial investor looking at this transaction from purely a profit/loss/math/arithmetic perspective.
    Yes. And using your proposition, it is just to get money back. And how are they going to do that they don't have value. The only way to have value is to put out something that people will buy.
    10-02-13 10:26 PM
  21. NYC10065's Avatar
    Yes. And using your proposition, it is just to get money back. And how are they going to do that they don't have value. The only way to have value is to put out something that people will buy.
    Actually, that is not necessarily the case. Many financial investors of this sort look at the picture in terms of the assets the company they are acquiring owns -- cash, real estate, patents, inventory and they make their assessment on the basis of risk/reward. In this case, Fairfax has a clear incentive to try to preserve whatever value remains in BBRY just in order to save the significant investments that they have already made.
    10-02-13 11:00 PM
  22. iykegomezi's Avatar
    To be fair; your business phone should be to conduct business with Use your personal phone to have fun with (IMHO)
    This is the mistake blackberry made, by thinking every working person should carry around 2 phones, who does that in this day and age, the world is moving forward not backward. You can see why there is demand for android and apple. Pity blackberry only realised. If only they carried out market or customer survey when the where at the top instead of power struggle at the top, they would have evolved with the needs of their customers.
    10-02-13 11:29 PM
  23. jay_men's Avatar
    With BlackBerry's renewed focus on enterprise and prosumers, hopefully they open up Balance to non-BES users. It would open up possible segment of the market of users who would like to keep separate profiles on a single device.
    10-03-13 12:21 PM
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