01-20-16 03:07 PM
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  1. Irish Blues's Avatar
    typically BB did break it down to legacy BBOS and BB10 so we were hoping for BB10 and Android numbers this time. Clearly they have them and could tell us and I am sure they would have if they were good numbers.
    I checked; they did that exactly twice - once in the last days of the Heins Reign of Error, once right after Chen took over. (Why, ... Heins, QED.) It won't happen again - namely, because at least previously one could see "Blackberry 7" and "Blackberry 10" and not know how many of which device was sold; any attempt right now to distinguish "Blackberry 10" and "BBAndroid" instantly divulges how many Privs were sold, because it's the only device in the latter. Moreover, no one else currently (or in recent times) gives device sales by type when it sells more than one type.
    01-03-16 07:47 PM
  2. howarmat's Avatar
    I checked; they did that exactly twice - once in the last days of the Heins Reign of Error, once right after Chen took over. (Why, ... Heins, QED.) It won't happen again - namely, because at least previously one could see "Blackberry 7" and "Blackberry 10" and not know how many of which device was sold; any attempt right now to distinguish "Blackberry 10" and "BBAndroid" instantly divulges how many Privs were sold, because it's the only device in the latter. Moreover, no one else currently (or in recent times) gives device sales by type when it sells more than one type.
    they did it almost every time. It was mostly on the conference call though and not it the reports. Sure it would be obvious what the priv sales were if they did it this time but that is what transparency is about and Chen isn't always great at that
    dolco, JeepBB, techvisor and 1 others like this.
    01-03-16 08:23 PM
  3. WaterTower's Avatar
    Just as an update...the downloads of dtek are now 50,000-100,000

    Blackberry Z10 was the beginning. The Z30 is my upgrade
    techvisor and smart548 like this.
    01-05-16 03:32 AM
  4. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Just as an update...the downloads of dtek are now 50,000-100,000

    Blackberry Z10 was the beginning. The Z30 is my upgrade
    So it's 50,001 and counting.....


    Just kidding, I agree with others that sales have to be much higher than this. But I "feel" that the totals want be much different next quarter, a couple hundred thousand fewer BB10 devices and a couple hundred thousand more PRIVs. Well below the 5 million Chen keeps talking about. Now next quarter... maybe with the rest of the US market having the PRIV, a big price drop, and the long awaited marketing campaign begins, we might break a million in on quarter for total device sales.


    Kinda disappointed that BlackBerry didn't have a Vienna to show at CES.... maybe at MWC at the end of Feb. (and no mention of BB10)
    techvisor likes this.
    01-06-16 04:01 PM
  5. AhmadCentral's Avatar
    I checked; they did that exactly twice - once in the last days of the Heins Reign of Error, once right after Chen took over. (Why, ... Heins, QED.) It won't happen again - namely, because at least previously one could see "Blackberry 7" and "Blackberry 10" and not know how many of which device was sold; any attempt right now to distinguish "Blackberry 10" and "BBAndroid" instantly divulges how many Privs were sold, because it's the only device in the latter. Moreover, no one else currently (or in recent times) gives device sales by type when it sells more than one type.
    They have always provided a split for almost 2 years now. This was actually the first time they haven't.

    See the chart I made on the previous page.
    01-07-16 08:40 AM
  6. Old_Mil's Avatar
    At the point, it is a given that the handset division is done.

    Even with a generous 100k privs a quarter you are looking at annual sales figures just under 10% of Chen's stated goal.

    Which of course is to be expected for an android phone priced like an iPhone that delivers no unique privacy features and an OS two generations behind the competition.
    JeepBB, dolco and techvisor like this.
    01-09-16 09:15 AM
  7. Rico4you's Avatar
    We are all in for a big surprise with regards to Devices sales and the surprise is very positive!
    01-09-16 05:12 PM
  8. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    We are all in for a big surprise with regards to Devices sales and the surprise is very positive!
    Specific = check
    Quantifiable = check
    Time frame = check
    Supporting evidence = check

    Looks good to me!
    01-09-16 05:21 PM
  9. tufcustomer's Avatar
    Question, does the count accumulate new downloads and updates or just new downloads?

    Posted via CB10
    01-09-16 05:26 PM
  10. JeepBB's Avatar
    Question, does the count accumulate new downloads and updates or just new downloads?

    Posted via CB10
    There was a huuuuuuge thread on this earlier... which I think came to the "conclusion" that the way Google count is very complicated and ambiguous and nobody really knows.

    I hope that helps? LOL
    techvisor likes this.
    01-09-16 05:55 PM
  11. Nick Spagnolo's Avatar
    The numbers won't be rallied until it has been released in ALL of the markets. The Priv is just making it into Europe and parts of Asia now. Just waiting for the final orders to come in

    Z10
    GadgetTravel likes this.
    01-09-16 06:28 PM
  12. gebco's Avatar

    Which of course is to be expected for an android phone priced like an iPhone that delivers no unique privacy features and an OS two generations behind the competition.
    Not sure what you deem to be competition, but when I look at the Rogers website, I see the Samsung S6 Edge+, or the LG G4 running Android 5.1, just like the Priv. Not sure if those other phones are eligible already for an OS update or not though. I don't see how the Priv OS is two generations behind?
    01-09-16 06:43 PM
  13. tufcustomer's Avatar
    There was a huuuuuuge thread on this earlier... which I think came to the "conclusion" that the way Google count is very complicated and ambiguous and nobody really knows.

    I hope that helps? LOL
    Lol, it's something.

    Posted via CB10
    01-09-16 09:17 PM
  14. imcurved's Avatar
    Cant wait to see how many will be sold once tmobile, verizon, and Sprint are on board. What take them so long by the way?

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2639
    Nick Spagnolo likes this.
    01-09-16 10:39 PM
  15. curves2000's Avatar
    If you ever looked at the financial reports it used to break down the percentage of sales between BB10 and BBOS. This was usually in the "Management discussion" portion.

    They would indicate sales for the quarter and indicate approx what % was BB10 sales.

    I didn't see this info stated in the report this time around. Perhaps it will be said in next quarter. Hopefully on the positive

    Posted via CB10
    01-10-16 11:28 PM
  16. BBinBC's Avatar
    Just a thought, but the reason for BBOS7 sales being broken out in previous financial reports would probably be to signal to investors how quickly service revenues on the old handsets can be expected to decline. Also, the ASP of all handset sales would be diluted due to the discounted pricing of BBOS7 handsets, so that would be another reason to include the breakdown between the two. Now that they are primarily selling Passports, Classics, and Privs, there isn't really a reason to differentiate between any of them other than to indicate whether they are selling more Android or more BBOS10 sets. Management is still probably deciding whether that is valuable information to investors, or whether selling 5 million handsets of any kind is the important metric to communicate. I think its fairly obvious that for the last quarterly report they didn't sell many Privs in comparison to total sales, so it's not worthwhile communicating that since the perception would be that the Priv / Android was a failed launch. However, this is the quarter where that will ultimately be determined.

    Posted via CB10
    01-11-16 03:08 AM
  17. dusdal's Avatar
    According to this article from 2013 they don't include pre-installed apps in the store install count.

    "Pre-installed apps
    Both companies told me that they do not count pre-installed apps among their numbers.

    Many Android devices come with apps pre-installed that can also be downloaded via the Google Play store, but those*do not count towards Play Store downloads. Only apps downloaded from the Play Store with a user account are counted."

    http://thenextweb.com/apple/2013/05/...app-downloads/

    Posted via CB10
    tufcustomer likes this.
    01-11-16 02:28 PM
  18. hobgoblin1961's Avatar
    and than there is the tweak on how they counting sales.

    sales to end customers or sales to carrier which are stocking up.

    Apple counting sales out of the factory even if only half of the production line actually dangling of real peoples wrist (as with that iWatch or what ever it's called)

    so the figures saying nothing of actual devices in use.
    PR departments can't be trusted at all, always tweaking statistics to there needs.

    Posted via -Classic SQC100-1 / 10.3.++
    01-13-16 11:23 AM
  19. grumpyaeroguy's Avatar
    I work for a huge international conglomerate, and, thus understand and have experienced corporate leadership double-speak as it pertains to my company, and most likely many similar larger companies.

    Delusional leadership of such companies can spin anything any which way better than any career politician---and, no, that was not meant as a compliment in any way shape or form.

    I do know one thing for sure, to repeat what has been mentioned above more than a few times...and it is an absolute truth in most large companies/corporations.

    If the news is LEGITIMATELY good, it is blasted from every orifice and roof top ad nausea, with every last corporate slug in its path trying to take credit for it, deserved, or not.

    Now my simple common sense point:

    If the priv numbers were crazy good, good being defined as meeting or exceeding blackberries internal expectations, hell, they'd be screaming it everywhere and anywhere to anyone with a camera or microphone. They may not quote a direct number, but you would hear things like "exceeding expectations by a significant margin" or "sales are above expectations by a significant margin" or other similar sounding statements.

    The guarded responses to priv sales tell me that the reality is significantly below hopes or expectations. In the most pessimistic assessment, they may be barley acceptable, RELATIVE TO INTERNAL EXPECTATIONS ---whether the expectations were 5 or 5 million or 50 million.

    If anyone at BlackBerry said anything about sales expectations ahead of launch, and I have not run across whether they did it not, than my guess would be that they are not even close to what that internal projection was, realistic or not.

    That's my thought.

    Posted via CB10
    DrBoomBotz, JeepBB, phuoc and 6 others like this.
    01-13-16 11:14 PM
  20. curves2000's Avatar
    I work for a huge international conglomerate, and, thus understand and have experienced corporate leadership double-speak as it pertains to my company, and most likely many similar larger companies.

    Delusional leadership of such companies can spin anything any which way better than any career politician---and, no, that was not meant as a compliment in any way shape or form.

    I do know one thing for sure, to repeat what has been mentioned above more than a few times...and it is an absolute truth in most large companies/corporations.

    If the news is LEGITIMATELY good, it is blasted from every orifice and roof top ad nausea, with every last corporate slug in its path trying to take credit for it, deserved, or not.

    Now my simple common sense point:

    If the priv numbers were crazy good, good being defined as meeting or exceeding blackberries internal expectations, hell, they'd be screaming it everywhere and anywhere to anyone with a camera or microphone. They may not quote a direct number, but you would hear things like "exceeding expectations by a significant margin" or "sales are above expectations by a significant margin" or other similar sounding statements.

    The guarded responses to priv sales tell me that the reality is significantly below hopes or expectations. In the most pessimistic assessment, they may be barley acceptable, RELATIVE TO INTERNAL EXPECTATIONS ---whether the expectations were 5 or 5 million or 50 million.

    If anyone at BlackBerry said anything about sales expectations ahead of launch, and I have not run across whether they did it not, than my guess would be that they are not even close to what that internal projection was, realistic or not.

    That's my thought.

    Posted via CB10

    I agree with a lot of what your saying with regards to the Priv sales.

    This being said there is a current lawsuit from investors regarding previous sales statements made during the BB10 launch that is currently before the courts. This may show a more conservative approach.

    If I was Blackberry I would have had relativity low expectations for sales for a Blackberry phone. Although this phone runs Android we can't expect it to sell even in the same category as a Samsung flagship or something. Blackberry needs to prove to the market along with build back up consumer confidence for the hardware division slowly.

    This being said there does appear to be a decent level of carrier support and it does appear that the US carriers and market have at least be somewhat receptive to this launch. This in itself is a huge positive in the right direction. I don't see ATT asking or demanding a 60 day exclusive window if they didn't think it was beneficial to them.

    Another factor in the lack of bragging or news releases related the Priv launch may also have to do with the competition. For example, if the Priv launched with 1 million sales in the first month that would be amazing sales for a Blackberry phone in 2015. If Apple launched a new iPhone and sold anything less than 5 times that in a week, every single media and business analyst community would be asking if the good times are all over.

    My personal opinion is that this phone will be of moderate success for a Blackberry in this day in age. Hopefully I am wrong to the positive side!

    Posted via CB10
    01-14-16 12:56 AM
  21. grumpyaeroguy's Avatar
    Agree with all of your statements.

    Of course, as has been observed in these forums many times, if marketing is any kind of benchmark, and it may not be, it would sure seem that blackberry doesnt even care about the us market. As we all know, marketing in the us is non-existant for BlackBerry.

    I recognize that this may be by design on their part but is perplexing to ME. If you're serious about the product succeeding, wouldn't it make sense to TRY to make serious inroads in the us?

    This is a phone priced at the top of the mark. You have to sell it where folks, many of them, can afford to pay that, assuming you can drive perceived value. If you're not even trying.....wtf?

    Blackberrys marketing strategy since the introduction of the z10 must be a case study in ineptitude.

    I clearly don't understand... lol

    Posted via CB10
    01-14-16 10:58 PM
  22. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    According to this article from 2013 they don't include pre-installed apps in the store install count.

    <snip for brevity>

    Billions: How exactly do Apple and Google count app downloads?
    This was discussed in another thread. Around the end of 2013, the play store metrics changed to account for pre-installed apps. It's not entirely clear whether pre-installed apps are counted at first app use, first update, or counted the first time the play store is accessed. But that's one of the reasons that the Play Store now shows an "Installed" metric instead of the "Downloaded" metric that it used to use instead. That's also why at the same time, many apps suddenly when from 500,000 - 1Million "downloads", to Multi Million "Installs" literally overnight when the change was made.
    JeepBB, techvisor, dolco and 1 others like this.
    01-15-16 10:38 AM
  23. TGR1's Avatar
    they did it almost every time. It was mostly on the conference call though and not it the reports. Sure it would be obvious what the priv sales were if they did it this time but that is what transparency is about and Chen isn't always great at that
    I agree with the previous poster - almost all the vendors now are getting cagey about revealing too much detail on sales. It's not just Chen.

    I also don't blame him. Reveal great sales and boom, in a couple months there will be a very inexpensive but powerful knockoff available.
    01-15-16 10:51 AM
  24. dolco's Avatar
    According to this article from 2013 they don't include pre-installed apps in the store install count.

    "Pre-installed apps
    Both companies told me that they do not count pre-installed apps among their numbers.

    Many Android devices come with apps pre-installed that can also be downloaded via the Google Play store, but those*do not count towards Play Store downloads. Only apps downloaded from the Play Store with a user account are counted."

    Billions: How exactly do Apple and Google count app downloads?

    Posted via CB10
    That article is misleading nonsense (IMHO)...Can you explain why Google Maps has 5 billions downloads? Google Maps is preinstalled on every Android with Google Play and cannot be uninstalled (without root).

    Its clear that preloaded apps cannot be counted-there is not user account. I am deeply persuaded that first update for preloaded app is counted as download.
    Last edited by dolco; 01-16-16 at 01:25 PM.
    tufcustomer likes this.
    01-16-16 01:15 PM
  25. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    That article is misleading nonsense (IMHO)...Can you explain why Google Maps has 5 billions downloads? Google Maps is preinstalled on every Android with Google Play and cannot be uninstalled (without root).

    Its clear that preloaded apps cannot be counted-there is not user account. I am deeply persuaded that first update for preloaded app is counted as download.
    It's not misleading nonsense. It's just old and out of date. See my reply a few replies up from this one . At the time of publication, it was pretty accurate.
    dolco likes this.
    01-16-16 03:39 PM
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