09-28-15 04:50 PM
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  1. LazyEvul's Avatar
    We've already seen Google's rejection of dual-boot devices in the past. Samsung and Asus attempted to produce dual-boot Android/Windows tablet/laptop hybrids a year or two ago, but both Microsoft and Google changed their certification rules to ensure that they never made it to market. The devices in question were the Ativ Q and the Transformer Book Duet.

    If BlackBerry wants Google Play Services, which is the only way an Android device makes sense, dual-boot is not happening.
    gfondeur likes this.
    07-07-15 05:52 PM
  2. app_Developer's Avatar
    The only way Hypervisor will be accepted by Google and even thats a tiny chance is to open source it. That way Google can tell its partners in OHA that they can use the same solution and it supports Android as a whole and Google changes the rules to everyones benefit. But we all know open source will never happen.
    Even if it were open source, this would be inviting future Android rivals to audition in front of their users. Google would be insane to allow OHA members to do this.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    07-07-15 05:56 PM
  3. Captain_Hilts's Avatar
    My mind is blown, OP. Thank you for the excellent and informative post.

    Posted via CB10
    Anthony Roberts5 likes this.
    07-07-15 06:30 PM
  4. BB-JAM215's Avatar
    Hypervisor as a way to officially access GPS is a non-starter. OHA requires the Android OS on bootup so no BB10. Plus Hypervisor will fragment BB10, no way it will run acceptably on low memory devices so probably only the Passport plus the new slider will be eligible.
    We keep hearing that Google's aging OHA standards for running Google Android are iron clad and that they are the only way Google will licence its software. No exceptions. Actually that is no longer true according to Google themselves. It seems Google has noticed that Non Google Android AOSP phones are gaining ground and has decided to provide an alternative called Android One "A new kind of smartphone running the latest version of Android. Available in select countries. Quality certified by Google."

    See https://www.android.com/intl/en-GB_id/one/ and Google launches its Android One phones in Pakistan: Google launches its Android One phones in Pakistan through QMobile - The Express Tribune

    Pakistan. That's awfully close to India where a shipment of BlackBerry phones labelled STV100-3 and believed to be code named Venice aka the Slider just arrived.
    Last edited by BB-JAM215; 07-07-15 at 06:42 PM. Reason: removed reference to Google shipping phones
    07-07-15 06:34 PM
  5. app_Developer's Avatar
    We keep hearing that Google's aging OHA standards for running Google Android are iron clad and that they are the only way Google will licence its software. No exceptions. Actually that is no longer true according to Google themselves. It seems Google has noticed that Non Google Android AOSP phones are gaining ground and has decided to provide an alternative called Android One "A new kind of smartphone running the latest version of Android. Available in select countries. Quality certified by Google."

    See https://www.android.com/intl/en-GB_id/one/ and Google launches its Android One phones in Pakistan: Google launches its Android One phones in Pakistan through QMobile - The Express Tribune

    Pakistan. That's awfully close to India where Google just shipped a bunch of phones labelled STV100-3 and believed to be code named Venice aka the Slider.
    I don't understand the point? Android One is much, much more restrictive than OHA. Basically Android One devices are all identical, regardless of the manufacturer. The manufacturer gets hardly anything more than a logo on the thing.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    LazyEvul, mornhavon and gfondeur like this.
    07-07-15 06:40 PM
  6. LazyEvul's Avatar
    We keep hearing that Google's aging OHA standards for running Google Android are iron clad and that they are the only way Google will licence its software. No exceptions. Actually that is no longer true according to Google themselves. It seems Google has noticed that Non Google Android AOSP phones are gaining ground and has decided to provide an alternative called Android One "A new kind of smartphone running the latest version of Android. Available in select countries. Quality certified by Google."

    See https://www.android.com/intl/en-GB_id/one/ and Google launches its Android One phones in Pakistan: Google launches its Android One phones in Pakistan through QMobile - The Express Tribune

    Pakistan. That's awfully close to India where Google just shipped a bunch of phones labelled STV100-3 and believed to be code named Venice aka the Slider.
    What is there about Android One that violates the OHA rules as we know them? They don't dual-boot, and so far as I can tell, they aren't made by manufacturers who sell Android forks. Android One is just a way for Google to ensure that their experience maintains a high level of quality even at the low-end.
    07-07-15 06:41 PM
  7. BB-JAM215's Avatar
    The point is that the OHA is not the only way. Also I meant to say "BlackBerry just shipped". See revised post.
    07-07-15 06:46 PM
  8. LazyEvul's Avatar
    The point is that the OHA is not the only way. Also I meant to say "BlackBerry just shipped". See revised post.
    But Android One is effectively just an extension of the OHA - and a stricter one at that, as pointed out by app_Developer. It is most definitely not any kind of indication that Google is willing to be flexible with their rules.
    07-07-15 06:48 PM
  9. app_Developer's Avatar
    The point is that the OHA is not the only way. Also I meant to say "BlackBerry just shipped". See revised post.
    So there is the OHA, which is restrictive. That not being enough, Google is heavily encouraging developers to use Google services, which further tightens Google's control of the ecosystem. And if that weren't enough, they also now have Android One where Google has more control than ever.

    So that's the trend. How does this support the idea that Google will go in completely the opposite direction and allow their OS to coexist now with someone else's OS on the same device? I don't understand.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    07-07-15 06:49 PM
  10. Ment's Avatar
    The point is that the OHA is not the only way. Also I meant to say "BlackBerry just shipped". See revised post.
    Whats the commonality: its certified by Google using existing standard of compatibility. Unless you are saying BB should have a BB Nexus devices controlled by Google, I fail to see your point.
    07-07-15 06:50 PM
  11. keithhackneysmullet's Avatar
    The hypervisor crowd are living in a fantasy world. No way Google allows that. Why would Google bend the rules for. 05 market share. They don't even bend the rules for Samsungs 40%.

    More interesting and important is what version of android is on the slider if its lollipop when android m is dropping that could look real bad.


    Posted via CB10
    Plazmic Flame likes this.
    07-07-15 06:50 PM
  12. BB-JAM215's Avatar
    What is there about Android One that violates the OHA rules as we know them? They don't dual-boot, and so far as I can tell, they aren't made by manufacturers who sell Android forks. Android One is just a way for Google to ensure that their experience maintains a high level of quality even at the low-end.
    Again, it shows that Google is willing to provide an alternative licencing arrangement.

    A BlackBerry phone that uses the QNX Hypervisor to run a blend of BB10 and Google Android would not be dual-boot.
    07-07-15 06:53 PM
  13. Ment's Avatar
    Again, it shows that Google is willing to provide an alternative licencing arrangement.

    A BlackBerry phone that uses the QNX Hypervisor to run a blend of BB10 and Google Android would not be dual-boot.
    You should qualify 'if it benefits Google'. Thats the bottom line. Android One helps Google greatly by streamlining the update process and puts low cost devices with the whole Google experience into the 'next billion' .
    07-07-15 06:56 PM
  14. app_Developer's Avatar
    Again, it shows that Google is willing to provide an alternative licencing arrangement.
    Yep, those lovely guys at Google. If you prefer not to put on their handcuffs, they are more than happy to provide a full straitjacket as an alternative.





    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    07-07-15 06:56 PM
  15. Djlatino's Avatar
    I think you guys should entertain the idea that it might exist, but strive to realize what's best for Blackberry, not for the loyalist. Sorry, but this is the reality. I love BB10, but I love for Blackberry to around to tell my future kids
    Blacklatino and tomsobon like this.
    07-07-15 06:58 PM
  16. LazyEvul's Avatar
    Again, it shows that Google is willing to provide an alternative licencing arrangement.

    A BlackBerry phone that uses the QNX Hypervisor to run a blend of BB10 and Google Android would not be dual-boot.
    Sure they are - so long as you play entirely by their rules. They're not some benevolent body looking to save the phone manufacturers of the world - they want to defend the interests of their flavour of Android. Nothing more, nothing less.

    QNX Hypervisor, regardless of technical definition, would not be playing by their rules. Google has nothing to gain, and arguably something to lose, from appearing alongside another OS on the same device. That's why they changed their certification process to ban dual-boot. Even if the Hypervisor doesn't meet the definition outlined in the process, it can be rewritten on a whim - just as it was when OEMs tried to make dual-boot devices.
    07-07-15 07:03 PM
  17. BB-JAM215's Avatar
    You should qualify 'if it benefits Google'. Thats the bottom line.
    You never know, with BlackBerry being more of a software company now and already working with Google "to Enhance Mobile Security and User Experience," there just might be a trade off that would benefit Google.
    07-07-15 07:22 PM
  18. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    See you are correct they cant have both an android device with the bb10 and runtime. But i think you are wrong with the rest. I think they will kill/drop the runtime and probably drop bb10 pretty much as well. You can still have bb10 on old devices and the runtime can be sideloaded, pretty sure its sideloadable right now as well. You have to sideload Snap or apply Cobalts solution to get anything to work anyway so whats the harm of adding a step of sideloading the runtime really? Sure that leaves lots of apps in bbworld unuseable out of the box and not sure how BB solves this issue, maybe all previous devices are exempt and can have the android runtime installed. I dont know. But its pretty clear that BB doesnt see bb10 development going forward as a priority at all. bb10 will exist for corporate only and for specialized functions that dont need the runtime anyway.

    Im not saying that a android BB device will make any money either but hey they have to give it a shot right? There is no way it could do any worse really to try this path.

    Anyway just throwing those random thoughts out there
    Yes, I think they have to try. BB10 failed. I don't think it had a chance by the time it was released even, but now it seems pretty clear.
    07-07-15 07:26 PM
  19. Ment's Avatar
    You never know, with BlackBerry being more of a software company now and already working with Google "to Enhance Mobile Security and User Experience," there just might be a trade off that would benefit Google.
    That is not a BB exclusive. All the MDM/EMM players are integrating their products into Android For Work. Again that helps Google get into enterprise no matter what solution the end user selects to manage/use their devices.

    Example : MobileIron and Google to Bring MobileIron AppConnect to Android for Work
    LazyEvul and mornhavon like this.
    07-07-15 07:34 PM
  20. chickenman18's Avatar
    So say that there is collaboration with another manufacturer such as Samsung working with BlackBerry. The quest is on to provide additional security for Android, which from what I read from you technical folks isn't possible. (Not being derogatory. . I learn a lot from you guys)
    So BlackBerry swings a deal with Samsung to put BB10 with an enhanced Android runtime on it, which can be secured for business, military, government, etc. Samsung tells Google to go fly a kite. Other Android manufacturers love the arrangement and vow to work with the BlackBerry /Samsung alliance.
    Wouldn't Google then be an island to itself? Would it want to be?

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    gfondeur likes this.
    07-07-15 07:34 PM
  21. Ment's Avatar
    So say that there is collaboration with another manufacturer such as Samsung working with BlackBerry. The quest is on to provide additional security for Android, which from what I read from you technical folks isn't possible. (Not being derogatory. . I learn a lot from you guys)
    So BlackBerry swings a deal with Samsung to put BB10 with an enhanced Android runtime on it, which can be secured for business, military, government, etc. Samsung tells Google to go fly a kite. Other Android manufacturers love the arrangement and vow to work with the BlackBerry /Samsung alliance.
    Wouldn't Google then be an island to itself? Would it want to be?

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    The 'go fly a kite strategy' doesn't work because for the OEM its not a gradual process. Its jump-off-the-cliff. They don't get to wait while their alternate strategy ramps up and still get to sell devices with a license for Google apps at the same time. Thats the beauty/curse of OHA - velvet handcuffs.
    07-07-15 07:40 PM
  22. app_Developer's Avatar
    So say that there is collaboration with another manufacturer such as Samsung working with BlackBerry. The quest is on to provide additional security for Android, which from what I read from you technical folks isn't possible. (Not being derogatory. . I learn a lot from you guys)
    So BlackBerry swings a deal with Samsung to put BB10 with an enhanced Android runtime on it, which can be secured for business, military, government, etc. Samsung tells Google to go fly a kite. Other Android manufacturers love the arrangement and vow to work with the BlackBerry /Samsung alliance.
    Wouldn't Google then be an island to itself? Would it want to be?

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Google would be on an island with hundreds of millions of users who expect their google services and most of the top app publishers who are increasingly becoming dependent on Google as well. That's a big island!

    Samsung isn't going to throw away hundreds of millions of device sales just to get an advantage in the small corporate market. Why bother when BES12 already secures communications to/from Samsung devices?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    mornhavon likes this.
    07-07-15 07:43 PM
  23. chickenman18's Avatar
    So what if Samsung says that Google play isn't that big a deal to their handset sales? There would still be continuity because Samsung apps would still run on a BerrySung device would it not?
    And if I'm Google, would I not want to keep my biggest customer?

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    07-07-15 07:45 PM
  24. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    Cmon guys let's be realistic, how much resourches needs a well built dual boot os? in terms of hardware, storage and most of all in development. I think that we'll see a double variant phone, one with a "blackberryed" android version (but stil android so then forget about hub, peek and swype up for minimize, just different ui looks and added secure), and one with native BB10.3.3 or above. This is i think the most realistic scenario looking to BB potential and capitals at the moment
    I think BlackBerry will aim the Android device to regular consumers and BB 10 for those Corp/Government accounts.

    Posted via CB10
    And how do you guys account for the OHA restrictions that have been referred to repeatedly in this and every other thread? To get a Google services supported version of Android, they'd have to abandon BB10 Android runtime.
    07-07-15 07:47 PM
  25. Ment's Avatar
    So what if Samsung says that Google play isn't that big a deal to their handset sales? There would still be continuity because Samsung apps would still run on a BerrySung device would it not?
    And if I'm Google, would I not want to keep my biggest customer?

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    But your first sentence isn't true and every thing that follows depends on that. If the Galaxy S6 at [insert carrier/retail store] has only Samsung S-Apps and HTC/LG/Moto has all the Google apps and access to the Playstore that people are used to having from their previous phone which phone is going to sell to the end user.
    LazyEvul and mornhavon like this.
    07-07-15 07:49 PM
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