09-28-15 05:50 PM
292 123 ...
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  1. Anthony Roberts5's Avatar
    Ok this is going to be a long one so be prepared.

    First let's look at these android rumors and what OHA is and how it can and can't work for blackberry.

    These are the rules when it comes to having an android runtime in your OS or forking android.

    While Android is open source and available for everyone to use, the Google Play store and Google apps (Gmail, Google Calendar, Chrome, etc.) are only available to Google’s partners in the Open Handset Alliance (OHA) that are certified by the Android Compatibility Program (ACP). It is free for anyone to join the alliance, but in doing so the company must agree to not fork Android and instead strive to avoid fragmentation of the Android platform. What this means is that a manufacturer like Acer cannot release a device that runs a non-compatible version of Android. If Acer wants to release a device with a non-compatible version of Android they can, but they’ll have to leave the OHA and lose access to Google’s ecosystem.

    Now what this simply means is that if BB joins the OHA, Android Runtime will cease to exist on BB10 OS and that personally WILL NOT HAPPEN. Not only is it dumb but they alienate all BB10 devices (From the Z10 up to the Leap that was just released) and this push for amazon appstore and so on and a lot and I mean a lot of Android apps from BB world will not work. So we can take this out of the equation big big time. Especially with the recent release of the Leap and Classic still rolling out in different colors. Android will always be a part of BB10 either as a runtime or forked/full android OS as a seperate OS within QNX (BB10)

    Now for sure though these rumors are all pointing to android being tested and most likely it is but not what you think. We have to take a look at the QNX hypervisor and Bla1ze did mention this at the podcast and I have to agree with him. They are working on a way to have Android work within or co-exist with BB10 or more specifically QNX now either two versions of this can happen......Fork android version OS as a seperate OS....this will improve android games and apps big time in terms of performance and battery life OR they will have Full Android with Google Ecosystem as well. How can BB and google work this out with option 2 with the QNX Hypervisor......no one knows. What would be great is if they can have android co exist with BB10 as a whole OS without being rooted thanks to QNX so that way android can be secure....

    QNX Hypervisor allows embedded devices to operate two OS instances at the same time, even when one or both of the instances is running a realtime OS – something competing hypervisors don't always handle well.

    With QNX Hypervisor, QNX claims customers will be able to gain all of the benefits of general-purpose OSes for usability while leaving the timing-critical heavy lifting to QNX Neutrino (which is what it does best).

    The company says the performance cost of running OS instances on its hypervisor is in the "very low single-digit percentage range" in its initial tests.

    In addition to isolating sensitive workloads from less critical ones, QNX says using virtualization can also cut down hardware costs by allowing both OS instances to share the same devices and GPUs. GPU sharing works cross-platform and even across multiple screens, while running two QNX instances at the same time allows both to share a wide range of devices without writing custom drivers, via patented QNX tech.

    Plus people why do you think it's the end of BB10??? Just because of no new SDK's.....people we are still on 10.3......10.3.1....10.3.2....are just performance and bug fixes with improved android runtime and a few new feature add on's to the OS why would be a NEW SDK to work with??? BB10 is essential to BB plan in terms of.......yup you guessed it security and privacy and they are focused on enterprise.

    Plus they just ANNOUNCED they are working on the follow update 10.3.3:

    BlackBerry 10.3.2 is coming soon to our customers in the rest of the world. So look for the notification on the BlackBerry Hub that the update is ready for you to download.

    We’re already working on the follow-up update, BlackBerry 10.3.3 and will keep you posted over the coming months.

    You guys think that all of a sudden oops no more BB10 your shut down completely in a couple of months??? BB would be bankrupt....the amount of enterprise customers they would lose and revenue is not even funny......look at their customers:

    AEG Ogden is responsible for the management of Australia’s most iconic venues, including Allphones Arena, Sydney Exhibition Centre, the Brisbane Entertainment Centre and Suncorp Stadium. Dirk Hoffman, AEG’s CIO for the Middle East, Asia and Pacific says, “As Airwatch could not meet our security requirements, we have rolled-out BES12 as our enterprise mobility platform. We have also deployed BlackBerry Passport and BlackBerry Classic devices, and now in the process of making BES12 our one-stop solution to manage all other mobile devices in our APAC network, including those running iOS and Android.”

    As a chosen mobile solutions provider for all of the G7 governments, BlackBerry continues to be a trusted partner to governments across the globe. To date, BlackBerry has received more than 50 government certifications and the BlackBerry 10 platform remains the only mobility solution to receive the coveted Full Operational Capability (FOC) certification to run on DoD networks.

    Yah let's drop that and all we stand for as a company very smart thing to do for security

    Also did you not see the Slider image that was taken???

    That CLEARLY is RUNNING BB10!!!! That is physical PROOF....

    Now remember I can be completely wrong and BB can do something radical and weird and totally dismiss everything here when we see it with our own eyes LOL. I will admit when I am wrong and so on but we can't ignore the OHA rules when it comes to android

    Please please please please please people read this officially from Google themselves!!!!!!!

    https://source.android.com/compatibility/index.html

    Licensing Google Mobile Services (GMS)
    After building an Android compatible device, consider licensing Google Mobile Services (GMS), Googles proprietary suite of apps (Google Play, YouTube, Google Maps, Gmail, and more ) that run on top of Android. GMS is not part of the Android Open Source Project and is available only through a license with Google. For information on how to request a GMS license, see Contact Us.

    What I hope and I mean this for sales for the slider that they find a way to have the slider have android and BB10 in one phone and what would be even more amazing is that this OS upgrade can be passed onto the older generation devices as well

    At the end of the day the slider will run BB10...but how they improve android on it either the runtime or a forked OS within BB10 we just have to wait and see.

    What do you guys think?
    Last edited by Anthony Roberts5; 07-09-15 at 10:31 AM.
    mania626, sirius27, smis and 30 others like this.
    07-07-15 11:33 AM
  2. yessuz's Avatar
    ok!
    i think.
    Anthony Roberts5 likes this.
    07-07-15 11:45 AM
  3. app_Developer's Avatar
    Isn't the issue of whether they allow simultaneous use of BB10 and Android separate from the issue of whether they kill the Android runtime in BB10?

    And what kind of battery life can we expect running two complete OSes at once?

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    07-07-15 11:50 AM
  4. Anthony Roberts5's Avatar
    Isn't the issue of whether they allow simultaneous use of BB10 and Android separate from the issue of whether they kill the Android runtime in BB10?

    And what kind of battery life can we expect running two complete OSes at once?

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    Yah that is what I am trying to get at is that this full android seperate BB device cannot exist so easily..because it will kill the android runtime within BB10 which won't happen....

    Battery life won't be impacted so easily remember:

    The company says the performance cost of running OS instances on its hypervisor is in the "very low single-digit percentage range" in its initial tests.
    powereds and mania626 like this.
    07-07-15 11:55 AM
  5. chrispmoto's Avatar
    Thank you for the info.

    Posted via CB10
    07-07-15 12:01 PM
  6. Anthony Roberts5's Avatar
    Thank you for the info.

    Posted via CB10
    No problem
    Jakob Greve and domolsz like this.
    07-07-15 12:02 PM
  7. app_Developer's Avatar
    Yah that is what I am trying to get at is that this full android seperate BB device cannot exist so easily..because it will kill the android runtime within BB10 which won't happen....

    Battery life won't be impacted so easily remember:

    The company says the performance cost of running OS instances on its hypervisor is in the "very low single-digit percentage range" in its initial tests.
    Good throughput or benchmark performance does not necessarily mean good battery performance. In fact, those can be quite opposed.

    One of the reasons why Microsoft and the Android team both abandoned the idea of RTOS in a phone is that coalescing work and letting the processor sleep as often as possible is very important for battery life. That means relaxing timing guarantees can improve battery life quite a bit.

    This hypervisor idea seems to compound the problem of an RTOS plus the Android scheduler as well. I can totally understand how they would still get excellent benchmark performance, but I can't see how the processor would get much of an opportunity to sleep. I would want to see actually energy usage data from BlackBerry, not just some generic claim of "performance".

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    mikeo007 and Plazmic Flame like this.
    07-07-15 12:15 PM
  8. Anthony Roberts5's Avatar
    Good throughput or benchmark performance does not necessarily mean good battery performance. In fact, those can be quite opposed.

    One of the reasons why Microsoft and the Android team both abandoned the idea of RTOS in a phone is that coalescing work and letting the processor sleep as often as possible is very important for battery life.

    This hypervisor idea seems to compound the problem of an RTOS plus the Android scheduler as well. I can totally understand how they would still get excellent benchmark performance, but I can't see how the processor would get much of an opportunity to sleep. I would want to see actually energy usage data from BlackBerry, not just some generic claim of "performance".

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    Definitely have to agree with you big time. I am curious as well. Are you interested in this device? Is your nexus 5 your main device?
    07-07-15 12:16 PM
  9. howarmat's Avatar
    Yah that is what I am trying to get at is that this full android seperate BB device cannot exist so easily..because it will kill the android runtime within BB10 which won't happen....

    Battery life won't be impacted so easily remember:

    The company says the performance cost of running OS instances on its hypervisor is in the "very low single-digit percentage range" in its initial tests.
    See you are correct they cant have both an android device with the bb10 and runtime. But i think you are wrong with the rest. I think they will kill/drop the runtime and probably drop bb10 pretty much as well. You can still have bb10 on old devices and the runtime can be sideloaded, pretty sure its sideloadable right now as well. You have to sideload Snap or apply Cobalts solution to get anything to work anyway so whats the harm of adding a step of sideloading the runtime really? Sure that leaves lots of apps in bbworld unuseable out of the box and not sure how BB solves this issue, maybe all previous devices are exempt and can have the android runtime installed. I dont know. But its pretty clear that BB doesnt see bb10 development going forward as a priority at all. bb10 will exist for corporate only and for specialized functions that dont need the runtime anyway.

    Im not saying that a android BB device will make any money either but hey they have to give it a shot right? There is no way it could do any worse really to try this path.

    Anyway just throwing those random thoughts out there
    07-07-15 12:20 PM
  10. app_Developer's Avatar
    Definitely have to agree with you big time. I am curious as well. Are you interested in this device? Is your nexus 5 your main device?
    I think it would be awesome if BB can offer a complete hardware and software integrated enterprise solution that can still run corporate apps. That's why I'm becoming more interested now in a Chendroid.

    I have a lot of devices through work. I use the N5 when travelling internationally mostly. It has a case with a selection of SIMs in it.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    07-07-15 12:20 PM
  11. Anthony Roberts5's Avatar
    See you are correct they cant have both an android device with the bb10 and runtime. But i think you are wrong with the rest. I think they will kill drop the runtime and probably drop bb10 pretty much as well. You can still have bb10 on old devices and the runtime can be sideloaded, pretty sure its sideloadable right now as well. You have to sideload Snap or apply Cobalts solution to get anything to work anyway so whats the harm of adding a step of sideloading the runtime really? Sure that leaves lots of apps in bbworld unuseable out of the box and not sure how BB solves this issue, maybe all previous devices are exempt and can have the android runtime installed. I dont know. But its pretty clear that BB doesnt see bb10 development going forward as a priority at all. bb10 will exist for corporate only and for specialized functions that dont need the runtime anyway.

    Im not saying that a android BB device will make any money either but hey they have to give it a shot right? There is no way it could do any worse really to try this path.

    Anyway just throwing those random thoughts out there
    Updated my posting...read the convo I had with an employee at blackberry....
    07-07-15 12:31 PM
  12. playpen007's Avatar
    Well, based on the leaked so far, I believe BlackBerry build Android Slider for specific market. This is the reason the Indian will test BlackBerry Android Slider.
    07-07-15 12:32 PM
  13. howarmat's Avatar
    Updated my posting...read the convo I had with an employee at blackberry....
    honestly i doesnt matter what any employee says about bb10 development. They would be stupid to say otherwise. BB's action on their dev tools is a better indication IMO. Nemory is done with BB10 dev and so are many others.
    jmr1015, mikeo007 and dejanh like this.
    07-07-15 12:40 PM
  14. Ment's Avatar
    Hypervisor as a way to officially access GPS is a non-starter. OHA requires the Android OS on bootup so no BB10. Plus Hypervisor will fragment BB10, no way it will run acceptably on low memory devices so probably only the Passport plus the new slider will be eligible.
    07-07-15 12:43 PM
  15. Anthony Roberts5's Avatar
    honestly i doesnt matter what any employee says about bb10 development. They would be stupid to say otherwise. BB's action on their dev tools is a better indication IMO. Nemory is done with BB10 dev and so are many others.
    Well Nemory is an ***** personally for one reason and one reason alone.....Quote to what he said:

    NemOry Studios announced via Instagram that due to everything pointing to BlackBerry moving towards an Android-only future, he has decided to move on to iOS development.

    So based on a RUMOR and RUMOR only you cease BB10 Development because of again a rumor that BB is going android?!?!? That is so silly.......who goes based off a rumor with no confirmation of BB10 itself.

    Now if he made a decision after BB confirmed they are going android then what he is saying would make sense in a sense.
    07-07-15 12:47 PM
  16. Anthony Roberts5's Avatar
    Hypervisor as a way to officially access GPS is a non-starter. OHA requires the Android OS on bootup so no BB10. Plus Hypervisor will fragment BB10, no way it will run acceptably on low memory devices so probably only the Passport plus the new slider will be eligible.
    Hmmm good points...I don't know much about the Hypervisor itself but we shall see.
    07-07-15 12:49 PM
  17. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    You should blank out the entire picture on the chat. If others at BBRY have that person as a contact, it would be quite simple to match the rest of the image.
    07-07-15 12:51 PM
  18. Cynycl's Avatar
    Updated my posting...read the convo I had with an employee at blackberry....
    honestly i doesnt matter what any employee says about bb10 development. They would be stupid to say otherwise. BB's action on their dev tools is a better indication IMO. Nemory is done with BB10 dev and so are many others.
    Well they did say......."soon"............... so that's sounds like an official Rimberry press release.
    07-07-15 12:52 PM
  19. Anthony Roberts5's Avatar
    You should blank out the entire picture on the chat. If others at BBRY have that person as a contact, it would be quite simple to match the rest of the image.
    Thanks
    07-07-15 12:53 PM
  20. sirius27's Avatar
    Your argument seems sound Anthony. I second that!
    Thank you for putting this out

    Posted via CB10
    Anthony Roberts5 likes this.
    07-07-15 12:53 PM
  21. Anthony Roberts5's Avatar
    Funny lol
    07-07-15 12:54 PM
  22. mania626's Avatar
    honestly i doesnt matter what any employee says about bb10 development. They would be stupid to say otherwise. BB's action on their dev tools is a better indication IMO. Nemory is done with BB10 dev and so are many others.
    So you rather believe the rumors?

    Posted via CB10
    DonTonyB and Anthony Roberts5 like this.
    07-07-15 12:54 PM
  23. randall2580's Avatar
    What I hope and I mean this for sales for the slider that they find a way to have the slider have android and BB10 in one phone and what would be even more amazing is that this OS upgrade can be passed onto the older generation devices as well
    I thought that another requirement for GPS was that the phone had to boot to Android, and have the "powered by Android" logo on the boot screen. I know that all of the new phones have that on boot up now. If the hypervisor booted before Android - would that be a problem for the requirement?

    Is there a way to do that AND run the hypervisor? That's a sincere question on my part.
    07-07-15 12:58 PM
  24. Anthony Roberts5's Avatar
    I thought that another requirement for GPS was that the phone had to boot to Android, and have the "powered by Android" logo on the boot screen. I know that all of the new phones have that on boot up now. If the hypervisor booted before Android - would that be a problem for the requirement?

    Is there a way to do that AND run the hypervisor? That's a sincere question on my part.
    That's a good question to be honest....hmm....We shall see.
    07-07-15 01:01 PM
  25. Skateman1972's Avatar
    Yeah!



    OK people let's get real with these Android rumors and clear some stuff up...-qnx_hypervisor_bb10_android.jpg

    Posted via CB10
    07-07-15 01:24 PM
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