10-04-13 08:38 PM
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  1. NYC10065's Avatar
    This is from today's New York Times article which stems from a BBRY regulatory filing:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/03/te...lide.html?_r=0

    "While the company has repeatedly boasted about the number of corporations that have downloaded its new corporate server software, it acknowledged in the filing that far fewer of them than expected had decided to purchase the software and related services after testing it."

    So Prem Watsa is saying he feels BBRY has a future in enterprise and BBRY is focusing on the "prosumer".

    How do you do this when corporations test then discard BES10?

    So let's see:
    - Z10 -- consumer flop/largely responsible for $1B inventory write down
    - Q10 -- good but not good enough to excite legacy BB users
    - BES10 -- failing to excite enterprise customers
    - Z30 -- who knows but my sense is it is DOA

    What now?
    10-02-13 08:42 AM
  2. JasW's Avatar
    This is from today's New York Times article which stems from a BBRY regulatory filing:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/03/te...lide.html?_r=0



    "While the company has repeatedly boasted about the number of corporations that have downloaded its new corporate server software, it acknowledged in the filing that far fewer of them than expected had decided to purchase the software and related services after testing it."

    So Prem Watsa is saying he feels BBRY has a future in enterprise and BBRY is focusing on the "prosumer".

    How do you do this when corporations test then discard BES10?

    So let's see:
    - Z10 -- consumer flop/largely responsible for $1B inventory write down
    - Q10 -- good but not good enough to excite legacy BB users
    - BES10 -- failing to excite enterprise customers
    - Z30 -- who knows but my sense is it is DOA

    What now?
    What now? Let me tell you what now. I'm a call a couple a hard, pipe-hittin' . . . oops, sorry, wrong movie.
    10-02-13 08:49 AM
  3. zzbsb's Avatar
    This is from today's New York Times article which stems from a BBRY regulatory filing:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/03/te...lide.html?_r=0

    "While the company has repeatedly boasted about the number of corporations that have downloaded its new corporate server software, it acknowledged in the filing that far fewer of them than expected had decided to purchase the software and related services after testing it."

    So Prem Watsa is saying he feels BBRY has a future in enterprise and BBRY is focusing on the "prosumer".

    How do you do this when corporations test then discard BES10?

    So let's see:
    - Z10 -- consumer flop/largely responsible for $1B inventory write down
    - Q10 -- good but not good enough to excite legacy BB users
    - BES10 -- failing to excite enterprise customers
    - Z30 -- who knows but my sense is it is DOA

    What now?
    What now? Now we wait for the privatization to go through and refocus. All the media just want to catch reader's eyeballs by posting negative news again and again. I guess you can't really blame them as it's their job.
    vrud, Arny cua and ColdStoneGuards like this.
    10-02-13 08:52 AM
  4. codehut's Avatar
    Everything I've heard about BES10 suggests that it isn't actually doing all the well in the market so far. According to BlackBerry in this report, it was missing a number of features to make it competitive. In addition, I recall Kevin mentioning in one of his podcasts about how contacts he had at BlackBerry had told him BES10 adoption thus far had been quite poor.

    Honestly as well, I don't think this enterprise market is anything like what it used to be. Most companies have now gone BYOD and BES has been so late to offer multi-platform support that a whole host of competitors have sprung up. BlackBerry's ability to make a profit in this space is going to get harder and harder and harder.

    And then factor in how many companies now have custom internal applications already deployed for iOS, Android, etc...

    Personally I think the door has already even closed for BlackBerry when it comes to enterprise.
    10-02-13 08:54 AM
  5. bluetroll's Avatar
    you also need to understand that corporations tend to be slow at adopting new technology.
    10-02-13 08:56 AM
  6. badiyee's Avatar
    Let's give it one positive news then. Supposedly BES 10 is now backwards compatible now, that should compel older bes users to upgrade their bes

    Sent from my A500 using CB Forums mobile app
    10-02-13 08:56 AM
  7. kbz1960's Avatar
    Let's give it one positive news then. Supposedly BES 10 is now backwards compatible now, that should compel older bes users to upgrade their bes

    Sent from my A500 using CB Forums mobile app
    Supposedly? It is or it isn't. And how well does it work? How many bugs are showing up? The track record says it's buggy and is missing things. But that's my opinion.
    Poirots Progeny likes this.
    10-02-13 09:02 AM
  8. NYC10065's Avatar
    Pretty bad though when you have a product which you get people to test but "fewer than expected" buy after testing. What does that say? Giving something away for free always boosts numbers.
    10-02-13 09:04 AM
  9. anon1727506's Avatar
    And BES10 is really designed to manage BlackBerry 10 devices, if you are going to be a BB10 only shop it will be the best chocie by far.

    But BOYD, and TABLETS have made that almost an impossibility.

    Legacy BBOS devices require a separate server that BES10 can oversee..
    Iphone and Android require 3rd party plug-in to allow management - and by all accounts do not provide very many options or capabilities. Not sure what happened to providing BB Balance like containers on these devices.... ?

    BES10 is expensive - if you need that level of security, you pay for it. If you don't, you'll probably go with other MDM systems that fit your needs and budget better.
    Troy Tiscareno and richardat like this.
    10-02-13 09:12 AM
  10. ElGusta's Avatar
    Is anyone really surprised that another BlackBerry product has ultimately yet again proven to be a flop?
    10-02-13 09:17 AM
  11. boi2012's Avatar
    This is no surprise. I caught on to BB's PR spin and fudging of the facts, very early on. If you read any of their press releases regarding the "success" of BES 10, you'll see how they always use their wording carefully and talk about the amount of installations and testers in the corporate market. That is a dead give away that there aren't a lot of purchasers and businesses are reluctant to commit and sign up for BES 10 service.

    You have to use your common sense when it comes to Blackberry, their news reporting and their claims.
    10-02-13 09:20 AM
  12. codehut's Avatar
    Also to add to my previous comment...there is one thing recently that got me thinking about BES10 and how well it is actually doing...and it's a discussion that took place recently on this CrackBerry post: My thoughts on the BlackBerry Q2 results released this morning | CrackBerry.com

    brkdncr
    "I can provide some insight on BES10 install count. As a BES5 customer, a 3rd party contacted me and set me up with BES10 for free - it was paid for entirely by BlackBerry, around $6k in labor services. Personally I was going to do it myself as it was not a complex install but i don't mind having someone that's done the install and has direct line with level2+ support at BBRY do the install for me."

    Chris Umi then replies:
    "I've never installed a BES, but I have to ask ... how the hell does it cost $6k to install software on a server? Isn't this crazy? Even if you pay a guy $100/hr are we really talking about a job that requires 60 hours of labour? If so, isn't this a huge problem?"

    Anyway, there was a big discussion there in the comments and you can find it and read the comments (top of the second page).

    TL;DR:
    If BlackBerry is paying for customers to have BES10 installed (rather than the reverse), what does that tell you?
    JeepBB likes this.
    10-02-13 09:20 AM
  13. jsmenard1's Avatar
    What now? Let me tell you what now. I'm a call a couple a hard, pipe-hittin' . . . oops, sorry, wrong movie.
    No, no I think this is totally appropriate for the situation
    Poirots Progeny likes this.
    10-02-13 09:20 AM
  14. jpvj's Avatar
    And BES10 is really designed to manage BlackBerry 10 devices, if you are going to be a BB10 only shop it will be the best chocie by far.

    But BOYD, and TABLETS have made that almost an impossibility.

    Legacy BBOS devices require a separate server that BES10 can oversee..
    Iphone and Android require 3rd party plug-in to allow management - and by all accounts do not provide very many options or capabilities. Not sure what happened to providing BB Balance like containers on these devices.... ?

    BES10 is expensive - if you need that level of security, you pay for it. If you don't, you'll probably go with other MDM systems that fit your needs and budget better.
    - If you have BB10 devices you only have BES10 or EAS policies - nothing else matters.
    - The plug-in (app) needed on iOS and Android is not because of BlackBerry. That's just how these devices are designed.
    - The "Balance" solution is out since BES 10.1.1 and is called "Secure Work Space" (SWS).

    BES10 is not expensive. $19 per device per year is ok. For BB10 devices this includes the access to BlackBerry Relay service for the extra layer of security for emails. For iOS/Android this is purely MDM.

    SWS however is $99. I guess that price is in between the old BB BES provisionen fee and $0.
    FairlightRacing likes this.
    10-02-13 09:24 AM
  15. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    And BES10 is really designed to manage BlackBerry 10 devices, if you are going to be a BB10 only shop it will be the best chocie by far.
    I also does iOS and Android. I know. We are using BES10 for those devices. We compared all the other offerings and BES10 was the best choice by far.
    FairlightRacing likes this.
    10-02-13 09:28 AM
  16. berklon's Avatar
    The enterprise are just ridding themselves of all things Blackberry.

    BES is unneeded and expensive. There are other solutions available.
    Why do you think Blackberry keeps clumping the BES10 test numbers with usage numbers? Because very few are actually adopting BES10.

    Blackberry continues to lose any grip they have left in all markets.
    10-02-13 09:28 AM
  17. dpeters11's Avatar
    Let's give it one positive news then. Supposedly BES 10 is now backwards compatible now, that should compel older bes users to upgrade their bes

    Sent from my A500 using CB Forums mobile app
    It's not really. It can now be on the same system as BES 5, and there is the unified Studio, but you really do need both BES 5 and BES 10
    10-02-13 09:30 AM
  18. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Also to add to my previous comment...there is one thing recently that got me thinking about BES10 and how well it is actually doing...and it's a discussion that took place recently on this CrackBerry post: My thoughts on the BlackBerry Q2 results released this morning | CrackBerry.com

    brkdncr
    "I can provide some insight on BES10 install count. As a BES5 customer, a 3rd party contacted me and set me up with BES10 for free - it was paid for entirely by BlackBerry, around $6k in labor services. Personally I was going to do it myself as it was not a complex install but i don't mind having someone that's done the install and has direct line with level2+ support at BBRY do the install for me."

    Chris Umi then replies:
    "I've never installed a BES, but I have to ask ... how the hell does it cost $6k to install software on a server? Isn't this crazy? Even if you pay a guy $100/hr are we really talking about a job that requires 60 hours of labour? If so, isn't this a huge problem?"

    Anyway, there was a big discussion there in the comments and you can find it and read the comments (top of the second page).

    TL;DR:
    If BlackBerry is paying for customers to have BES10 installed (rather than the reverse), what does that tell you?
    I call BS. I was able to install BES 10.1 in a couple of hours. Either someone was lying or they got hosed.
    Nharzhool likes this.
    10-02-13 09:30 AM
  19. JasW's Avatar
    Supposedly? It is or it isn't. And how well does it work? How many bugs are showing up? The track record says it's buggy and is missing things. But that's my opinion.
    Hey, if you don't like BlackBerry, why are you . . . oops, sorry, wrong thread.
    kbz1960, richardat and kevinnugent like this.
    10-02-13 09:31 AM
  20. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    The enterprise are just ridding themselves of all things Blackberry.

    BES is unneeded and expensive. There are other solutions available.
    Have you actually compared them? Please provide a breakdown on costs. How much more expensive is BES 10 over the competitors? Does it have the same features.
    10-02-13 09:32 AM
  21. jpvj's Avatar
    This is from today's New York Times article which stems from a BBRY regulatory filing:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/03/te...lide.html?_r=0

    "While the company has repeatedly boasted about the number of corporations that have downloaded its new corporate server software, it acknowledged in the filing that far fewer of them than expected had decided to purchase the software and related services after testing it."

    So Prem Watsa is saying he feels BBRY has a future in enterprise and BBRY is focusing on the "prosumer".

    How do you do this when corporations test then discard BES10?

    So let's see:
    - Z10 -- consumer flop/largely responsible for $1B inventory write down
    - Q10 -- good but not good enough to excite legacy BB users
    - BES10 -- failing to excite enterprise customers
    - Z30 -- who knows but my sense is it is DOA

    What now?
    Regarding BES10.
    When I read "Company sees increasing penetration of BlackBerry Enterprise Service 10 (BES 10) with more than 25,000 commercial and test servers installed to date, up from 19,000 in July 2013" I immediately noticed "commercial and test servers installed".

    My first thougts were:
    - They are hiding some fact here. If everything was great, they would annound the numbers separately. I guess their conversion rate from test servers to production is low.
    - What is the ratio (production/test)? (.. how many BES10 servers are in production, and thereby possible revenue creators for the future?)
    - How many active devices are managed by BES10 per device type (iOS/Android/BB10)?

    Maybe there is a rule that insignificant numbers does not belong in an earnings report... I don't know ... ;-)
    Last edited by jpvj; 10-02-13 at 01:52 PM.
    10-02-13 09:33 AM
  22. JasW's Avatar
    Have you actually compared them? Please provide a breakdown on costs. How much more expensive is BES 10 over the competitors? Does it have the same features.
    What's the point? It's obvious that organizations with legacy BES servers have stayed away from BES 10 in droves -- even those that test BES 10.

    Your own experience may have been a peachy keen one, but it's irrelevant. You can trot out all kinds of arguments and justifications and benefits and what have you that you believe BES 10 has, but I'm quite sure BBRY has made those same arguments and conveyed those justifications and benefits to its client base. And the end result is clear -- that being the actual topic of the thread.

    BYOD was the death knell. Because YO is hardly ever a BB.
    richardat, Etios, JeepBB and 1 others like this.
    10-02-13 09:40 AM
  23. Jimberry Storm's Avatar
    This is from today's New York Times article which stems from a BBRY regulatory filing:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/03/te...lide.html?_r=0

    "While the company has repeatedly boasted about the number of corporations that have downloaded its new corporate server software, it acknowledged in the filing that far fewer of them than expected had decided to purchase the software and related services after testing it."

    So Prem Watsa is saying he feels BBRY has a future in enterprise and BBRY is focusing on the "prosumer".

    How do you do this when corporations test then discard BES10?

    So let's see:
    - Z10 -- consumer flop/largely responsible for $1B inventory write down
    - Q10 -- good but not good enough to excite legacy BB users
    - BES10 -- failing to excite enterprise customers
    - Z30 -- who knows but my sense is it is DOA

    What now?
    I did some research for my Little company. It would cost us $15,000.00 to upgrade from BESEX to BES10. Just too expensive for us, would love to have it, but not at that cost.
    10-02-13 09:46 AM
  24. danprown's Avatar
    Is it possible that the "test numbers" include something like they did with S4BB? Not out of the question. I read an interview with the India chief a while ago (when they were boasting the 19,000 number) and he was asked about India and he replied, we are growing, we have 14,000 installs here. I thought wait a minite, are 14,000 of the 19,000 in India? What is the deal there. How many of these installs in India can be expected to generate any sort of meaningful revenue. How did S4BB get to bang out 40% of the app store without approval by Blackberry? Are they paying someone in India to download BES across "enterprises"?
    kevinnugent likes this.
    10-02-13 09:53 AM
  25. richardat's Avatar
    Everything I've heard about BES10 suggests that it isn't actually doing all the well in the market so far. According to BlackBerry in this report, it was missing a number of features to make it competitive. In addition, I recall Kevin mentioning in one of his podcasts about how contacts he had at BlackBerry had told him BES10 adoption thus far had been quite poor.

    Honestly as well, I don't think this enterprise market is anything like what it used to be. Most companies have now gone BYOD and BES has been so late to offer multi-platform support that a whole host of competitors have sprung up. BlackBerry's ability to make a profit in this space is going to get harder and harder and harder.

    And then factor in how many companies now have custom internal applications already deployed for iOS, Android, etc...

    Personally I think the door has already even closed for BlackBerry when it comes to enterprise.
    I think....it is either closed, or...half-open at best...and half-open wont' support a very big company relatively. That's sort of why I've been repeatedly saying thngs like "i'm skeptical of BES" or "I think it may not be doing all that well". I hadn't heard anything until the report, but BB's previous lack of actual numbers supported my skepticism.
    10-02-13 10:00 AM
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