09-12-16 05:24 AM
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  1. Denise in Los Angeles's Avatar
    Just curious, how could BB10 have ever been marketed to success when it lacked a robust app catalog? People keep making that claim, but its not clear how phones without apps can be marketed.
    07-21-16 05:51 PM
  2. conite's Avatar
    Just curious, how could BB10 have ever been marketed to success when it lacked a robust app catalog? People keep making that claim, but its not clear how phones without apps can be marketed.
    I had high hopes that BlackBerry could pull a rabbit out of its hat back in Feb 2013, but those hopes were gone by the summer when the big apps didn't come, and BB10 didn't gain traction. In hindsight, we know it didn't stand a chance, because they were just too far behind the ecosystem eight ball.

    Any significant expenditure after that was throwing good money after bad. They just had to keep a foot in the corporate door long enough to bring software along to where it is now.

    Android is a hail Mary, which I hope works. There's that hope again.
    07-21-16 06:02 PM
  3. thurask's Avatar
    Just curious, how could BB10 have ever been marketed to success when it lacked a robust app catalog? People keep making that claim, but its not clear how phones without apps can be marketed.
    The BB10 brigades aren't the type to let pesky facts get in the way of their narrative.
    07-21-16 06:02 PM
  4. Denise in Los Angeles's Avatar
    I remember the tech reporter review on the morning news when the Z10 came out. He was done in 20 seconds. He said "This is the new BlackBerry Z10. It doesn't have the popular apps on it."

    He sounded very bored during those 20 seconds, too.
    07-21-16 06:04 PM
  5. Invictus0's Avatar
    No, the data is the millions of Z10s and other BB10 phones in circulation versus the 100K Privs that have been sold.
    Can you link to this data?

    The customers that seem to make up BB10's userbase don't have much need to regularly upgrade devices. When they do upgrade, I doubt they're looking into specs much.

    Chen wouldn't commit to saying that we'll never see another BB10 device again, but he noted that the market for BB10 devices has been squarely in the high-security business, such as governments and hospitals. BlackBerry will continue to support those customers with software updates, but since they don't upgrade their devices very often, the impetus to come out with new hardware often is low.
    BlackBerry CEO wants to sell 5 million phones a year | The Verge
    07-22-16 12:02 AM
  6. cgk's Avatar
    There is a lot of pent up demand for an all touch BB10 device for people to upgrade their millions of Z10s.
    A known code-word in BBRY earnings call for "will need to do a write-down on handsets later".
    JeepBB and app_Developer like this.
    07-22-16 01:21 AM
  7. markmall's Avatar
    Can you link to this data?

    The customers that seem to make up BB10's userbase don't have much need to regularly upgrade devices. When they do upgrade, I doubt they're looking into specs much.



    BlackBerry CEO wants to sell 5 million phones a year | The Verge
    I agree they're not looking at specs. This is one of the reasons why BB10 is so desirable over android from the maker's standpoint. It does not need top end specs in order to perform well.

    Users still expect that when their phone wears out after three years they can buy a slightly faster phone. The Z10 started out pokey. That is the most common bb10 phone.

    Posted via CB10
    07-22-16 01:46 AM
  8. markmall's Avatar
    A known code-word in BBRY earnings call for "will need to do a write-down on handsets later".
    They were able to sell many times more bb10 phones than android.

    Posted via CB10
    07-22-16 01:47 AM
  9. johnny_bravo72's Avatar
    They were able to sell many times more bb10 phones than android.

    Posted via CB10
    Yes. Sweet victory for BB10 because of its continuing decline of handset sales/marketshare, atrocious ecosystem and billion-dollar write-offs. Huzzah!!

    *C5303
    cgk and JeepBB like this.
    07-22-16 04:18 AM
  10. ohaiguise's Avatar
    So long as there continues to be decent PKB phones available, I actually don't mind whether it's Android or BB10 or even Windows.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    07-22-16 05:04 AM
  11. cgk's Avatar
    They were able to sell many times more bb10 phones than android.

    Posted via CB10
    It's not a ringing endorsement is it? In nearly four years and with five handsets they managed to outsell a single android handset that has been on the market for eight month?
    07-22-16 05:44 AM
  12. Zidentia's Avatar
    Of course they always put out a new BB10 with a BBOS runtime. Screw Android.

    Or maybe a new Android phone with a BB10 runtime. Screw BBOS


    Posted via CB10
    07-22-16 07:40 AM
  13. markmall's Avatar
    It's not a ringing endorsement is it? In nearly four years and with five handsets they managed to outsell a single android handset that has been on the market for eight month?
    The Z10 alone probably outsold the Priv 10:1 in its first year.
    07-22-16 12:25 PM
  14. tre10's Avatar
    The Z10 alone probably outsold the Priv 10:1 in its first year.
    Likely very true but unfortunately for those who like BB10 it seems to be THAT much cheaper for BlackBerry to make android handsets. Money talks everything else takes the long walk off a short pier
    DrBoomBotz likes this.
    07-22-16 12:33 PM
  15. markmall's Avatar
    Likely very true but unfortunately for those who like BB10 it seems to be THAT much cheaper for BlackBerry to make android handsets. Money talks everything else takes the long walk off a short pier
    Not Priv. This is why they could not price it competitively. It cost too much to build. To get attention in Android they had to pull the pullout keyboard and give it very high specs.
    07-22-16 12:59 PM
  16. tre10's Avatar
    Not Priv. This is why they could not price it competitively. It cost too much to build. To get attention in Android they had to pull the pullout keyboard and give it very high specs.
    That's also very true. I personally think BB10 is great if you don't need apps. Too many missteps made when it was launching and it wasn't all marketing. It was marketed. Some of the marketing was obscure and useless but they did try something. Apps were more important than they thought. Some people don't need them and some. I guess it's like vhs vs betamax. The best doesn't always win.
    Attached Thumbnails New BlackBerry 10 Device coming? COO says maybe-uploadfromtaptalk1469212939132.jpg  
    07-22-16 01:42 PM
  17. app_Developer's Avatar
    The Z10 alone probably outsold the Priv 10:1 in its first year.
    And the Z10 lost maybe 100:1 as much money for BBRY shareholders. That's not success.
    07-22-16 05:47 PM
  18. cgk's Avatar
    The Z10 alone probably outsold the Priv 10:1 in its first year.
    The z10 that they lost hundreds of millions on and had to effectively firesale? Not a great endorsement.
    DrBoomBotz and JeepBB like this.
    07-22-16 06:10 PM
  19. markmall's Avatar
    The z10 that they lost hundreds of millions on and had to effectively firesale? Not a great endorsement.
    You are mixing up things. Just because they made too many and had to sell inventory at a loss does not mean that they did not sell millions and that many BB10 users would have bought a follow-up device.

    The Priv has sold about zero devices and will have no upgrade path so it appears.
    07-22-16 08:01 PM
  20. markmall's Avatar
    That's also very true. I personally think BB10 is great if you don't need apps. Too many missteps made when it was launching and it wasn't all marketing. It was marketed. Some of the marketing was obscure and useless but they did try something. Apps were more important than they thought. Some people don't need them and some. I guess it's like vhs vs betamax. The best doesn't always win.
    One of Apple's strengths in the PC market (and now in the phone market) is that they do not have to compete head to head in terms of CPU performance and other specs. People want the OS and they want things to work well. Now Blackberry is thrown into the spec wars that they cannot fight and that reduces margins to nothing.

    How could Chen not foresee that he could not find in the Android world? How could he not see that he would need a finished Android overlay that truly, truly distinguished the Android offering? Was it that dinky keyboard that was supposed to make the difference?
    Coachbulldog likes this.
    07-22-16 08:04 PM
  21. tre10's Avatar
    One of Apple's strengths in the PC market (and now in the phone market) is that they do not have to compete head to head in terms of CPU performance and other specs. People want the OS and they want things to work well. Now Blackberry is thrown into the spec wars that they cannot fight and that reduces margins to nothing.

    How could Chen not foresee that he could not find in the Android world? How could he not see that he would need a finished Android overlay that truly, truly distinguished the Android offering? Was it that dinky keyboard that was supposed to make the difference?
    Apple also has the benefit of developers wanting to make apps for them. Blackberry doesn't. BB10 didn't make a single cent of profit. So as lovely as it runs on little old 2012 SOCs it's not their best option. Shareholders are like spoiled kids. They want their ROI asap (preferably now really). I'm not saying BlackBerry has done perfectly with their transition to android but I can't see what other choices they had. They have no bargaining power with anyone really. Not the devs , not the chip manufacturers and not much with the carriers. It's take whatever scraps they get and work with it or quit devices now.
    DrBoomBotz and Gallofa like this.
    07-22-16 08:34 PM
  22. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    One of Apple's strengths in the PC market (and now in the phone market) is that they do not have to compete head to head in terms of CPU performance and other specs. People want the OS and they want things to work well. Now Blackberry is thrown into the spec wars that they cannot fight and that reduces margins to nothing.

    How could Chen not foresee that he could not find in the Android world? How could he not see that he would need a finished Android overlay that truly, truly distinguished the Android offering? Was it that dinky keyboard that was supposed to make the difference?
    Your comments suggest Blackberry should be aiming to compete with Android flagship devices. That is definitely not the strategy they're going for with an enterprise focus. They're not shooting for some Android killer. They don't have the resources. Optimum for Blackberry will be to match Alcatel Idol 4 in total sales volume and improvement will be to outsell PRIV. Success will be anything in the middle that approaches profitability.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    07-22-16 08:44 PM
  23. Invictus0's Avatar
    I agree they're not looking at specs. This is one of the reasons why BB10 is so desirable over android from the maker's standpoint. It does not need top end specs in order to perform well.

    Users still expect that when their phone wears out after three years they can buy a slightly faster phone. The Z10 started out pokey. That is the most common bb10 phone.

    Posted via CB10
    Consumers might, but if BB10 devices are being bought for security needs (as the quote in my previous post implies), then the Classic and Leap would be reasonable upgrades over the Z10 and Q5/Q10.
    07-22-16 09:07 PM
  24. markmall's Avatar
    Your comments suggest Blackberry should be aiming to compete with Android flagship devices. That is definitely not the strategy they're going for with an enterprise focus. They're not shooting for some Android killer. They don't have the resources. Optimum for Blackberry will be to match Alcatel Idol 4 in total sales volume and improvement will be to outsell PRIV. Success will be anything in the middle that approaches profitability.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Oh, really? I thought BlackBerry targeted "prosumers" who would pay for premium devices. What is the new strategy this month? Whatever tripe Chen can sell to the few investors that still believe anything he says?

    Posted via CB10
    cgk likes this.
    07-22-16 10:24 PM
  25. markmall's Avatar
    Consumers might, but if BB10 devices are being bought for security needs (as the quote in my previous post implies), then the Classic and Leap would be reasonable upgrades over the Z10 and Q5/Q10.
    The Classic was underpowered when it was released. It needs a follow up.

    Posted via CB10
    07-22-16 10:30 PM
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