09-12-16 05:24 AM
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  1. Orange UK's Avatar
    You absolutely do not understand what BIS is/was. We have no basis for further discussion.
    As a consumer I'm well aware.



    As for being a niche fanboi, shut it down, dont partake in discussion, keep your head in the clouds. Fair dues. See ya mate
    08-10-16 11:44 AM
  2. app_Developer's Avatar
    Well BB10 and Android will never break even so you go back to what you know and does
    .
    As much as I adore Kodachrome, Kodak is not going to be restored to its former glory by reintroducing new and improved Kodachrome. Like it or not, most photographs taken today are taken with phones and shared via social media apps. That's reality.

    The world has moved on. BB is doing the best they can to keep up. It's unfortunate that WebOS and BB10 didn't take off, but they didn't.

    So since turning back time isn't a viable option, BB has exactly two options available to it today. Either choose Android for new devices or stop making new devices. I don't see a 3rd option that is founded on any sense of reality.
    DrBoomBotz, TgeekB, JeepBB and 1 others like this.
    08-10-16 11:49 AM
  3. Orange UK's Avatar
    As much as I adore Kodachrome, Kodak is not going to be restored to its former glory by reintroducing new and improved Kodachrome. Like it or not, most photographs taken today are taken with phones and shared via social media apps. That's reality.

    The world has moved on. BB is doing the best they can to keep up. It's unfortunate that WebOS and BB10 didn't take off, but they didn't.

    So since turning back time isn't a viable option, BB has exactly two options available to it today. Either choose Android for new devices or stop making new devices. I don't see a 3rd option that is founded on any sense of reality.
    Sell up....
    08-10-16 12:01 PM
  4. DamianWarS's Avatar
    5 million Android units...come on, not going to happen.
    I doubt they make much from these outsourced phones. With BlackBerry they have BB10 phones and Android phones and so their market share may not always be clear. Plus they now offer subscription based apps to turn your Android essentially into a BlackBerry which is not counted as market share but probably has higher profits (for 1 year subscription) then a phone does. So BlackBerry may operate their own scale of what looks good to them.
    08-10-16 12:12 PM
  5. app_Developer's Avatar
    Sell up....
    They tried that option, right? They couldn't find a buyer.

    I'm sure they are still open to offers, but they have the added complication of needing to agree to a price that Prem can explain to his own shareholders.

    I do think acquisition is the most likely outcome of all of this, though.
    08-10-16 12:21 PM
  6. Orange UK's Avatar
    I doubt they make much from these outsourced phones. With BlackBerry they have BB10 phones and Android phones and so their market share may not always be clear. Plus they now offer subscription based apps to turn your Android essentially into a BlackBerry which is not counted as market share but probably has higher profits (for 1 year subscription) then a phone does. So BlackBerry may operate their own scale of what looks good to them.
    A BISesque subscription on a less secure mobile, with uncapped carrier data costs... a half hearted effort the masses dont want.

    With BIS the sub was needed, you knew every handset paid in to the coffers for a few years at least.


    Nothings been clear at BB for a long time :/



    TCL-Alcatel will be making good money though...which as its Alcatel brand licensing is running out sooner than later (2024) they need to come up as soon as poss with a new marketable brand, nice of BB to help out a fellow competitor (again!) 8 years is a long time in mobile brands, just look at BB.
    08-10-16 12:28 PM
  7. Orange UK's Avatar
    They tried that option, right? They couldn't find a buyer.

    I'm sure they are still open to offers, but they have the added complication of needing to agree to a price that Prem can explain to his own shareholders.

    I do think acquisition is the most likely outcome of all of this, though.


    Cant get any lower, using Android...the only way is up for a new CEO/owner.
    08-10-16 12:50 PM
  8. tre10's Avatar
    Cant get any lower, using Android...the only way is up for a new CEO/owner.
    If you don't like the direction BlackBerry is being taken then you would need a new board of directors as well. A lot of Chen's major decisions and acquisitions had to be approved by them so they aren't just gonna sack him. They want this new direction as well.
    DrBoomBotz likes this.
    08-10-16 01:09 PM
  9. markmall's Avatar
    We don't know how much has BlackBerry10 sold and how many are still working. Anyway BlackBerry knows these numbers so they can maybe bet on another BB10 device if developement costs are covered by other sellings or can be covered by sellings inferences.

    Someone said that BlackBerry10 sellings are low but still steady after all these years while Priv is already near to zero...

    Posted via CB10
    Finishing and marketing BB10 was their best strategy, imo. Chen has thrown so much money in different directions, he had the resources to do this. The OS matured but not the marketing. Then the hardware ceased and bad PR resumed.

    Take away the startup acquisitions and the Android adventure, and the world might have learned about BB10 and functions like the Hub and Blend.

    Posted via CB10
    Orange UK likes this.
    08-10-16 01:18 PM
  10. markmall's Avatar
    If you don't like the direction BlackBerry is being taken then you would need a new board of directors as well. A lot of Chen's major decisions and acquisitions had to be approved by them so they aren't just gonna sack him. They want this new direction as well.
    I think Watsa controls the Board. If he had a change of heart, he could fire Chen and change course.

    Posted via CB10
    08-10-16 01:20 PM
  11. tre10's Avatar
    I think Watsa controls the Board. If he had a change of heart, he could fire Chen and change course.

    Posted via CB10
    Well he's not showing signs of that change of heart right now. So we should get comfor for the time being.......or not. There's always Apple Samsung, LG and whoever else.
    08-10-16 01:25 PM
  12. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I think Watsa controls the Board. If he had a change of heart, he could fire Chen and change course.

    Posted via CB10
    Change course.... That would be like crashing you plane in a desert and spending weeks trying to reach a point where survival is possible... and just before you make it there - your wife saying she forgot something in the plane and for your to go get it.

    Sorry but BlackBerry doesn't have the resources to "change course", in 2013 befroe he took over BlackBerry was burning $4.4 Billion every quarter, some might have been waste... but not all of it.

    Marketing ended the summer of 2013... because BB10 was a FLOP. It didn't run Candy Crush and it didn't run Instagram... and it was that simple (well for US users there was also the matter of rebooting phones for almost two months...). Granted we found ways of sideloading or hacking to get out fix... but even that is temporary and not an official solution. And certainly not something that could be marketed.

    No amount of marketing would have saved BB10 after the fact. The Flop and then the For Sale... was the end of most developers and even most companies interest in BlackBerry.

    BBOS is dead.
    BB10 is about to have it's plug pulled.
    Maybe Android will be able to keep some form of BlackBerry branded hardware alive. But that is all there is now.
    08-10-16 01:55 PM
  13. markmall's Avatar
    Well he's not showing signs of that change of heart right now. So we should get comfor for the time being.......or not. There's always Apple Samsung, LG and whoever else.
    Microsoft! For business users.

    Posted via CB10
    08-10-16 03:25 PM
  14. tre10's Avatar
    Microsoft! For business users.

    Posted via CB10
    Good point. Microsoft is another strange case. They have all the marketing in the world but suffer the same app problem as BlackBerry. They're mobile division is struggling almost as much as BlackBerry's
    08-10-16 03:29 PM
  15. markmall's Avatar
    Change course.... That would be like crashing you plane in a desert and spending weeks trying to reach a point where survival is possible... and just before you make it there - your wife saying she forgot something in the plane and for your to go get it.

    Sorry but BlackBerry doesn't have the resources to "change course", in 2013 befroe he took over BlackBerry was burning $4.4 Billion every quarter, some might have been waste... but not all of it.

    Marketing ended the summer of 2013... because BB10 was a FLOP. It didn't run Candy Crush and it didn't run Instagram... and it was that simple (well for US users there was also the matter of rebooting phones for almost two months...). Granted we found ways of sideloading or hacking to get out fix... but even that is temporary and not an official solution. And certainly not something that could be marketed.

    No amount of marketing would have saved BB10 after the fact. The Flop and then the For Sale... was the end of most developers and even most companies interest in BlackBerry.

    BBOS is dead.
    BB10 is about to have it's plug pulled.
    Maybe Android will be able to keep some form of BlackBerry branded hardware alive. But that is all there is now.
    How many of BB's core users use Candycrush or would give up a productive business tool for Candycrush?

    I agree that the OS was incomplete on release and the For Sale were badly damaging. But these were fixable -- the first was fixed. I really thought Chen was going to pump new vigor into public perception of the brand since this was essential to sales.

    Posted via CB10
    08-10-16 03:30 PM
  16. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    How many of BB's core users use Candycrush or would give up a productive business tool for Candycrush?

    I agree that the OS was incomplete on release and the For Sale were badly damaging. But these were fixable -- the first was fixed. I really thought Chen was going to pump new vigor into public perception of the brand since this was essential to sales.

    Posted via CB10
    The whole problem is just how many "core" BB users were there to begin with?

    You take away the ones that bought a BlackBerry for its early Push Email features that have been negated.
    You take away the ones that bought a BlackBerry for it's BIS features that allowed low cost data usage in developing markets, again negated.
    You take away the people that need some "productivity" tools that can't be ran on a BlackBerry, there are many of those.
    You take away the people that loved BlackBerry, but also loved to have fun with silly little games.

    Your left with a small userbase of a few million that would buy a BlackBerry regardless of marketing.

    Do you really think that the PUBLIC would want a BB10 phone? That they would be willing to take the risk of using a hacker's tools to get apps from Google Play?

    Whatever you belive... let it go. BB10 is history at this point. Yes things might could have been done differently. But personally I think it was doomed, they started way too late and then had delay after delay. Yes BB10 had potential, yes BB10 has shaped up to be a very nice OS by 2014. If BB10 had been launched in 2008, maybe 2009... it could have grown with iOS and Android and possible captured some developer support.

    But BB10, SailFish, FireFox, Ubuntu, Tizen, Windows... they have all shown that once you allow someone to dominate an almost market, there is no catching up or even competing. MS has pour more money into Windows Mobile than BlackBerry could have even dreamed of... with not much to show for it.
    StephanieMaks and JeepBB like this.
    08-10-16 03:53 PM
  17. Denise in Los Angeles's Avatar
    I think Watsa controls the Board. If he had a change of heart, he could fire Chen and change course.

    Posted via CB10
    Even if Watsa did fire Chen, he would not go back to BB10. Every day that Chen is still CEO, they are running BlackBerry in the course that Watsa approves of.

    And they did change course. The course they chose is ANDROID.
    08-10-16 04:07 PM
  18. TgeekB's Avatar
    Good point. Microsoft is another strange case. They have all the marketing in the world but suffer the same app problem as BlackBerry. They're mobile division is struggling almost as much as BlackBerry's
    Difficult to compare the two. MS has so much more going for it, and is now revamping what mobile is. They are looking to the future and it will be interesting to see how things work out.
    08-10-16 04:10 PM
  19. tre10's Avatar
    Difficult to compare the two. MS has so much more going for it, and is now revamping what mobile is. They are looking to the future and it will be interesting to see how things work out.
    Windows Mobile isn't bad. It has the perception that it's horrible because tons of people hated Windows 8 on desktop. I know many people that don't like Windows 8. They'll use it but they don't like it. I think that helped work against WP8. Hopefully windows 10 goes better
    TgeekB likes this.
    08-10-16 04:57 PM
  20. markmall's Avatar
    Good point. Microsoft is another strange case. They have all the marketing in the world but suffer the same app problem as BlackBerry. They're mobile division is struggling almost as much as BlackBerry's
    You assume it's an app problem. Maybe the OS is no good. Maybe the hardware is not compelling. Maybe it is a combination of app availability and the OS/hardware.

    Also, I am not aware of any marketing of Windows Phone OS. I'm not even sure what it's called. Just because MSFT spends a lot marketing Office and Surface doesn't mean that it markets its mobile OS which has been its ugly stepchild.
    08-10-16 06:03 PM
  21. markmall's Avatar
    The whole problem is just how many "core" BB users were there to begin with?

    You take away the ones that bought a BlackBerry for its early Push Email features that have been negated.
    You take away the ones that bought a BlackBerry for it's BIS features that allowed low cost data usage in developing markets, again negated.
    You take away the people that need some "productivity" tools that can't be ran on a BlackBerry, there are many of those.
    You take away the people that loved BlackBerry, but also loved to have fun with silly little games.

    Your left with a small userbase of a few million that would buy a BlackBerry regardless of marketing.

    Do you really think that the PUBLIC would want a BB10 phone? That they would be willing to take the risk of using a hacker's tools to get apps from Google Play?

    Whatever you belive... let it go. BB10 is history at this point. Yes things might could have been done differently. But personally I think it was doomed, they started way too late and then had delay after delay. Yes BB10 had potential, yes BB10 has shaped up to be a very nice OS by 2014. If BB10 had been launched in 2008, maybe 2009... it could have grown with iOS and Android and possible captured some developer support.

    But BB10, SailFish, FireFox, Ubuntu, Tizen, Windows... they have all shown that once you allow someone to dominate an almost market, there is no catching up or even competing. MS has pour more money into Windows Mobile than BlackBerry could have even dreamed of... with not much to show for it.
    I don't know how old you are, but there are hundreds of millions of men over 40 that really don't give a wits whatever about Candycrush, Instagram, Pokemon or all the rest of it. They want a productivity tool. Moreover, even if they wanted any of the social stuff they might not want it on their work device.

    This is my belief, and telling me to give it up won't change it.

    I do not expect Blackberry to change course with BB10 to release any other devices. This would require the sort of insight and guts that Chen and his cronies have shown none of.
    08-10-16 06:09 PM
  22. tre10's Avatar
    You assume it's an app problem. Maybe the OS is no good. Maybe the hardware is not compelling. Maybe it is a combination of app availability and the OS/hardware.

    Also, I am not aware of any marketing of Windows Phone OS. I'm not even sure what it's called. Just because MSFT spends a lot marketing Office and Surface doesn't mean that it markets its mobile OS which has been its ugly stepchild.
    One simple search of Google and I found an articles on supposedly huge as campaigns for Windows Phone 8 when it launched. One ads had Jessica Alba and all. Just because you never seen the marketing doesn't mean it doesn't exist . Its just means it was ineffective and likely wasted money lol ( sounds a lot like BB10 marketing doesn't it). It was marketed though even if only at the beginning. New BlackBerry 10 Device coming? COO says maybe-uploadfromtaptalk1470870627451.png
    08-10-16 06:17 PM
  23. markmall's Avatar
    Chen spent nearly nothing, so anything is going to be better than what he did. He condemned the OS to death. His alibi: nobody wanted it. This seems dishonest to me, which is one of the reasons it p-sses me off.

    But, yeah, just because MSFT spends money on marketing does not mean they spend wisely. I used to listen to Windows Weekly podcast and they would complain about how neglected Windows Phone OS was -- such as lack of updates. This also made me believe that they were not investing much in marketing. (Together with the fact that I never see any ads, etc.)
    08-10-16 06:24 PM
  24. app_Developer's Avatar
    Chen spent nearly nothing, so anything is going to be better than what he did. He condemned the OS to death. His alibi: nobody wanted it. This seems dishonest to me, which is one of the reasons it p-sses me off.
    What would be the point of running ads all over the place if there are few phones actually available at retailers?

    Think about it. If Chen had committed to building 10M phones, he would have had to commit to nearly $2B in orders to suppliers. BlackBerry doesn't even have $2B anymore.

    And that's just for 10M phones.

    It's a scale problem. You can't just throw ads all over the world if you don't (and can't) have the supply chain to back it up.
    JeepBB likes this.
    08-10-16 06:52 PM
  25. tre10's Avatar
    Chen spent nearly nothing, so anything is going to be better than what he did. He condemned the OS to death. His alibi: nobody wanted it. This seems dishonest to me, which is one of the reasons it p-sses me off.

    But, yeah, just because MSFT spends money on marketing does not mean they spend wisely. I used to listen to Windows Weekly podcast and they would complain about how neglected Windows Phone OS was -- such as lack of updates. This also made me believe that they were not investing much in marketing. (Together with the fact that I never see any ads, etc.)
    Yeah I think the fact that you have never seen any shows how ineffective their marketing efforts were. Some links for you since you've never seen them

    A BB10 as from the UK :


    An ad for the time shift camera :

    One for the Q10 :

    And lastly a Z30 ad showing off all the software features :


    Marketing did happen. If you and others never saw it then BlackBerry wasted their money.
    08-10-16 06:59 PM
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