09-12-16 05:24 AM
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  1. markmall's Avatar
    I used plenty BB devices, I like most customers were in a position to bin BB as main devices. BB10 returned. Like most consumers also gauge Android on any device as a poor security system.


    BB could not turn around public perception of themselves from a market high of mobile security, did the CEO really think he could turn around Androids security public percption with a BB logo....lunacy.



    Reminds me of MG cars, early Rover MG logos and then SAIC...them MG's are still not selling a decade later after the SAIC takeover.
    The management knows nothing about marketing. They just guess at things that won't cost a lot so they can take a few more swings.

    Posted via CB10
    08-10-16 04:01 AM
  2. conite's Avatar
    You know the best way to guarantee that you don't lose any money? You fold up the company. But if you manage defensively like Chen for years and don't innovate, you are guaranteed for failure.

    Posted via CB10
    BlackBerry has done plenty of innovation - just not in the direction YOU wanted.
    08-10-16 06:31 AM
  3. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    You know the best way to guarantee that you don't lose any money? You fold up the company. But if you manage defensively like Chen for years and don't innovate, you are guaranteed for failure.

    Posted via CB10
    So exactly why did the Warren Buffet of Canada hire Chen? Surely with your expertise and superior knowledge... Which Fortune 1000 company are you currently running?

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    DrBoomBotz likes this.
    08-10-16 07:22 AM
  4. Orange UK's Avatar
    The management knows nothing about marketing. They just guess at things that won't cost a lot so they can take a few more swings.

    Posted via CB10
    Marketing or consumer demands. 6 billion consumers and how much marketshare, even Microsoft has a grace of a major OS which it evolves, 3 different BB OS in 5 years - its a mental health issue, BB does not know what it is all about, let alone its mass appeal...SECURITY + Android = confidence ? hahaha. Joke.

    3 operating systems in 5 years, even a teenager with minimal life experience knows thats unlikely to work for a company. But BB ? lol
    08-10-16 09:48 AM
  5. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Marketing or consumer demands. 6 billion consumers and how much marketshare, even Microsoft has a grace of a major OS which it evolves, 3 different BB OS in 5 years - its a mental health issue, BB does not know what it is all about, let alone its mass appeal...SECURITY + Android = confidence ? hahaha. Joke.

    3 operating systems in 5 years, even a teenager with minimal life experience knows thats unlikely to work for a company. But BB ? lol
    1. BBOS needed to be replaced because it was no longer fit for puropose and hard to extend.

    2. BB10 failed in the market and it was too expensive to maintain.

    3. Android was the hard choice that had to be made considering the reality of the two previous operating systems, remember that BlackBerry is a much smaller company now than it was at the height of it's success.

    Android may or may not succeed but the other options were off the table for the reasons listed above and probably some more that have not been mentioned.
    Somehow I doubt I will change your opinion but there it is.
    08-10-16 10:00 AM
  6. Orange UK's Avatar
    If I remember correctly carriers were glad to get away from BIS. They hated having to pay BlackBerry for it. I don't know what it actually cost them to have it but they were basically tripping over themselves to get out of BIS contracts. Carriers are apparently cheap (Lol how many big businesses aren't) and preferred to sell iPhone and android with no fee to their manufacturers. Even if an updated BIS was only 99 cents per phone I'm not sure carriers would cooperate. Big business doesn't like to spend what they don't have too.
    Big business likes revenue, if BB 'were' not superior and making themselves and carriers money BB BIS would have been long gone before Heins manic decision to replace it with inferior .

    BB could buy data transport worldwide alot cheaper than a national carrier or even multi national as big as Vodafone. It had buying leverage, carriers are paying more for data with the bill uncapped at their door now. BB - its leveraging itself over the top of a big hole with numerous CEO able to firm grip.


    Whats BB unique selling point these days ? BIS ? security ? hardware ?


    Answer: Android!



    You couldnt make it up! lol
    08-10-16 10:02 AM
  7. tre10's Avatar
    Big business likes revenue, if BB 'were' not superior and making themselves and carriers money BB BIS would have been long gone before Heins manic decision to replace it with inferior .

    BB could buy data transport worldwide alot cheaper than a national carrier or even multi national as big as Vodafone. It had buying leverage, carriers are paying more for data with the bill uncapped at their door now. BB - its leveraging itself over the top of a big hole with numerous CEO able to firm grip.


    Whats BB unique selling point these days ? BIS ? security ? hardware ?


    Answer: Android!



    You couldnt make it up! lol
    Carriers also like control. Just look at OS updates. They didn't want to have to pay and rely on BB. I don't believe BlackBerry willingly gave up BIS. That would be madness. It was probably more like "If your new phones require BIS we won't carry them. We already have Android and iOS."
    08-10-16 10:14 AM
  8. Orange UK's Avatar
    1. BBOS needed to be replaced because it was no longer fit for puropose and hard to extend.

    2. BB10 failed in the market and it was too expensive to maintain.

    3. Android was the hard choice that had to be made considering the reality of the two previous operating systems, remember that BlackBerry is a much smaller company now than it was at the height of it's success.

    Android may or may not succeed but the other options were off the table for the reasons listed above and probably some more that have not been mentioned.
    Somehow I doubt I will change your opinion but there it is.
    BI-Security is no longer fit for purpose ? Replacing BBOS with Android is ? LOL


    BB10 failed because BIS was excluded. People en masse loved BIS not brand BB.


    What kind of company removes their unique offering and revenue source and expects it to succeed...



    Android was not the only option, admit the error of your ways and step back, BIS on market leading handsets would set BB brand and revenues on a upward spiral, Android will not do it, public perception is Android is the least secure OS and for reason. Buying a BB device now means Google has your data...a long shot from RIM stance on security.



    I would happily load BBOS7 on a Z30...but wheres the option for me to give BB a sale and monthly revenue income, like management not existent.



    I wont change my mind, correct, like the millions who left BB devices behind. Nothing unique selling point about BB10 nor Android. NOTHING to offer the market to grow the company.



    And in business thats what you do, grow.
    08-10-16 10:15 AM
  9. Orange UK's Avatar
    Carriers also like control. Just look at OS updates. They didn't want to have to pay and rely on BB. I don't believe BlackBerry willingly gave up BIS. That would be madness. It was probably more like "If your new phones require BIS we won't carry them. We already have Android and iOS."
    Carriers data costs are costing them a bomb compared to BB BIS fees, you bet they want to bring that cost down, shortsighted of both carrier and BB to not see data use would continue going the opposite way of BB market share and share price.


    Apple and Microsoft are going for OS control, Android by its very security flaw allows carriers such control it is a security issue. I mean with Windows becoming one OS like Apple and also open to third parties surely it made sense to DTEK on Windows Phone 10 not Android given its market share is massive when grouped into Windows as a whole as the future will be.



    Even having a BIS subscription that allows use of a (VPN) BB browser on Windows - W phone, PC, tablets - enhanced online security.



    Nope, lets get rid of BIS and end up going with Android ?


    Its a complete joke.
    08-10-16 10:22 AM
  10. tre10's Avatar
    Carriers data costs are costing them a bomb compared to BB BIS fees, you bet they want to bring that cost down, shortsighted of both carrier and BB to not see data use would continue going the opposite way of BB market share and share price.


    Apple and Microsoft are going for OS control, Android by its very security flaw allows carriers such control it is a security issue. I mean with Windows becoming one OS like Apple and also open to third parties surely it made sense to DTEK on Windows Phone 10 not Android given its market share is massive when grouped into Windows as a whole as the future will be.
    I agree the carriers were likely short sighted on data costs. They were in such a hurry to stop paying BlackBerry they didn't think of the future. Now they'll just try to pass the cost onto us however they can.
    08-10-16 10:24 AM
  11. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    BI-Security is no longer fit for purpose ? Replacing BBOS with Android is ? LOL
    The carriers didn't wan't BIS and neither did the customers.
    Its time had come and gone by the time they went to BB10.
    They replaced BBOS with BB10 not Android. LOL!

    BB10 failed because BIS was excluded. People en masse loved BIS not brand BB.
    They did when it made sense but then things changed.

    What kind of company removes their unique offering and revenue source and expects it to succeed...
    One that realises it will not work in the market going forward.

    Android was not the only option, admit the error of your ways and step back, BIS on market leading handsets would set BB brand and revenues on a upward spiral, Android will not do it, public perception is Android is the least secure OS and for reason. Buying a BB device now means Google has your data...a long shot from RIM stance on security.
    I choose not to argue whether or not android was the only option, but its the one they took considering the circumstances they faced.
    As I said BIS was not going to work.

    I would happily load BBOS7 on a Z30...but wheres the option for me to give BB a sale and monthly revenue income, like management not existent.
    Well if you can afford 10-15 million units for your personal stock they might accommodate you.
    On second thought, I doubt it.
    You are just SOL.
    But BIS would still be a problem because the carriers don't want it.
    Last edited by DrBoomBotz; 08-10-16 at 10:35 AM. Reason: BBOS7 is not going to happen again.
    08-10-16 10:26 AM
  12. DamianWarS's Avatar
    Marketing or consumer demands. 6 billion consumers and how much marketshare, even Microsoft has a grace of a major OS which it evolves, 3 different BB OS in 5 years - its a mental health issue, BB does not know what it is all about, let alone its mass appeal...SECURITY + Android = confidence ? hahaha. Joke.

    3 operating systems in 5 years, even a teenager with minimal life experience knows thats unlikely to work for a company. But BB ? lol
    That's not how market share works. 350 million is the pie and the slice that goes to BlackBerry is about 650k. If the pie was 6 billion BlackBerry's slice would be 12 million and they would be quite happy about that. Android has close to 85% market share and if BlackBerry took 2% it's over 5 million units.
    08-10-16 10:37 AM
  13. Orange UK's Avatar
    The carriers didn't wan't BIS and neither did the customers.
    Its time had come and gone by the time they went to BB10.
    They replaced BBOS with BB10 not Android. LOL!








    They did when it made sense but then things changed.



    One that realises it will not work in the market going forward.



    I choose not to argue whether or not android was the only option, but its the one they took considering the circumstances they faced.
    As I said BIS was not going to work.



    Well if you can afford 10-15 million units for your personal stock they might accommodate you.
    But BIS would still be a problem because the carriers don't want it.
    Customers wanted security and data costs capped...and still do, BIS subs were falling as the hardware was lacklustre.



    They have replaced superior BBOS with Android. FACT.


    Well have BB proven that in anyway at all ? Look at the demise on that decision, and the ongoing denial they were wrong to BB long term position in the market since.



    Incorrect BIS was working, nothing since has.



    Consumers drive a market not carriers. If I had the cash I would buy 51% not bail BB out with my own BIS subscriptions...think sense boy!
    08-10-16 10:40 AM
  14. Orange UK's Avatar
    That's not how market share works. 350 million is the pie and the slice that goes to BlackBerry is about 650k. If the pie was 6 billion BlackBerry's slice would be 12 million and they would be quite happy about that. Android has close to 85% market share and if BlackBerry took 2% it's over 5 million units.

    5 million Android units...come on, not going to happen.
    08-10-16 10:43 AM
  15. Orange UK's Avatar
    BlackBerry has done plenty of innovation - just not in the direction YOU wanted.
    It has done no innovation consumers or the market wanted, thus why BB is in the long term state it is in.
    08-10-16 10:57 AM
  16. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    think sense boy!
    But I am madam.
    Orange UK likes this.
    08-10-16 10:59 AM
  17. conite's Avatar
    Customers wanted security and data costs capped...and still do, BIS subs were falling as the hardware was lacklustre.



    They have replaced superior BBOS with Android. FACT.


    Well have BB proven that in anyway at all ? Look at the demise on that decision, and the ongoing denial they were wrong to BB long term position in the market since.



    Incorrect BIS was working, nothing since has.



    Consumers drive a market not carriers. If I had the cash I would buy 51% not bail BB out with my own BIS subscriptions...think sense boy!
    BIS cannot handle the bandwidth of modern smartphones. Consumers are media hungry. The world can't be routed through a BlackBerry server farm anymore.

    All the juice was squeezed out of BBOS, and it could not be extended anymore. It was beyond the end of its life cycle, and had to be replaced. Consumers were already leaving in droves because the BlackBerry offering was no longer capable of delivering what people wanted.

    The gamble was to adopt Android or go it alone. We know what happened. It was over by the summer of 2013 when the big apps never came - and it almost buried the company amid billion dollar loses.
    08-10-16 11:03 AM
  18. JulesDB's Avatar
    We don't know how much has BlackBerry10 sold and how many are still working. Anyway BlackBerry knows these numbers so they can maybe bet on another BB10 device if developement costs are covered by other sellings or can be covered by sellings inferences.

    Someone said that BlackBerry10 sellings are low but still steady after all these years while Priv is already near to zero...

    Posted via CB10
    08-10-16 11:07 AM
  19. Orange UK's Avatar
    BIS cannot handle the bandwidth of modern smartphones. Consumers are media hungry. The world can't be routed through a BlackBerry server farm anymore.

    All the juice was squeezed out of BBOS, and it could not be extended anymore. It was beyond the end of its life cycle, and had to be replaced. Consumers were already leaving in droves because the BlackBerry offering was no longer capable of delivering what people wanted.

    The gamble was to adopt Android or go it alone. We know what happened. It was over by the summer of 2013 when the big apps never came - and it almost buried the company amid billion dollar loses.
    BIS is BackBone, so you keep its structure but change as needed ie...evolution, not every human looks the same but we all need a spine.



    Compression can be eased, fact of life. Have a backbone? Use backbone..
    08-10-16 11:09 AM
  20. conite's Avatar
    BIS is BackBone, so you keep its structure but change as needed ie...evolution, not every human looks the same but we all need a spine.



    Compression can be eased, fact of life. Have a backbone? Use backbone..
    What you're saying makes no sense in terms of what BIS was. Either the data gets put through the NOC, or it doesn't.

    Less compression would simply compound the bandwidth problem.
    08-10-16 11:14 AM
  21. Orange UK's Avatar
    We don't know how much has BlackBerry10 sold and how many are still working. Anyway BlackBerry knows these numbers so they can maybe bet on another BB10 device if developement costs are covered by other sellings or can be covered by sellings inferences.

    Someone said that BlackBerry10 sellings are low but still steady after all these years while Priv is already near to zero...

    Posted via CB10
    Well BB10 and Android will never break even so you go back to what you know and does



    BB is selling devices to BB badge fanbois not security or hardware buffs, but niche markets need niche pricing and most fanbois wont pay the price for a Android handset near Apple specs or costs. Thus BB has backed itself into a even worse corner than Heins did...at least he 'tried' something (prematurely) for all his failures.





    For those in doubt BB are now not a niche market, are like long term management in denial.
    08-10-16 11:15 AM
  22. Orange UK's Avatar
    What you're saying makes no sense in terms of what BIS was. Either the data gets put through the NOC, or it doesn't.

    Less compression would simply compound the bandwidth problem.
    So what do you do then ? invest in your main income infrastructure or hang it out to pasture, hhhmmm lets ask AT&T, Britosh Telecom, Orange (France Telecom), etc etc what they did.
    08-10-16 11:20 AM
  23. conite's Avatar
    So what do you do then ? invest in your main income infrastructure or hang it out to pasture, hhhmmm lets ask AT&T, Britosh Telecom, Orange (France Telecom), etc etc what they did.
    That's why BIS/BBOS was abandoned. It was not scalable in any reasonable sense. It's time was over.

    There is no one arguing that BBOS had to be put down. That is obvious.

    The question is what BlackBerry should have done next - their own proprietary OS (which was going to be 3 years late to the party) or adopt Android. We saw what happened. Of course hindsight is 20/20.
    08-10-16 11:25 AM
  24. Orange UK's Avatar
    That's why BIS/BBOS was abandoned. It was not scalable in any reasonable sense. It's time was over.

    There is no one arguing that BBOS had to be put down. That is obvious.

    The question is what BlackBerry should have done next. Their own proprietary OS or adopt Android. We saw what happened. Of course hindsight is 20/20.
    Time has proven to BB management what its customers were always aware of, thats not 20/20, thats (continued) denial. BIS was what was BB core of everything, not QNX, not Android, not a standalone OS but a backhaul (SECURE) ecosystem connection and OS.



    BIS was and still remains BB core product and still is scalable more than BB10 was or Android ever will be.

    A business core should always go back to what they are/were good at, (plus points if that is a USP) and improve on it, not dilute itself with various CEO's or OS in a uber short period. A great CEO knows this. A decent CEO only plugs the cash holes. A good CEO raises sales and cash.


    Where is the current BB CEO...




    In business hindsight means f all, esp if you are ignoring it/in denial.


    BB will fold/sell out, thats Chen intention...not a niche market. Chen share options dictate selling on because well thats obvious



    Can he keep afloat on niche customers until then is the question. With Android ? Doubtful.
    08-10-16 11:39 AM
  25. conite's Avatar
    Time has proven to BB management what its customers were always aware of, thats not 20/20, thats (continued) denial. BIS was what was BB core of everything, not QNX, not Android, not a standalone OS but a backhaul (SECURE) ecosystem connection and OS.



    BIS was and still remains BB core product and still is scalable more than BB10 was or Android ever will be.

    A business core should always go back to what they are/were good at, (plus points if that is a USP) and improve on it, not dilute itself with various CEO's or OS in a uber short period. A great CEO knows this. A decent CEO only plugs the cash holes. A good CEO raises sales and cash.


    Where is the current BB CEO...




    In business hindsight means f all, esp if you are ignoring it/in denial.


    BB will fold/sell out, thats Chen intention...not a niche market.
    You absolutely do not understand what BIS is/was. We have no basis for further discussion.
    08-10-16 11:41 AM
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