02-08-12 07:37 AM
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  1. LoganSix's Avatar
    Really? Just marketing?
    Yes.

    Will better marketing for the BlackBerry make it easier to develop quality apps on par with their iPhone counterparts?
    Apparently you aren't familiar with WebWorks/HTML5, Native SDK

    Will better marketing make BlackBerry cameras better? Will better marketing stop users from having to do battery pulls? Will better marketing make the OS more fluid?
    Apparently you don't know anything about QNX.

    The technology is there all is needed is marketing to get developers and consumers interested.


    But, thanks for proving my point that RIM needs better marketing. You obviously haven't been informed, even by hanging out in a BlackBerry fanboy site.
    Last edited by LoganSix; 02-02-12 at 09:07 AM. Reason: fixed text formatting.
    Jake Storm and AlienSlacker like this.
    02-02-12 09:07 AM
  2. pkcable's Avatar
    Moved to News & Rumors, since this is an actual article.
    02-02-12 09:10 AM
  3. HeezyBear's Avatar
    Yes.


    Apparently you aren't familiar with WebWorks/HTML5, Native SDK


    Apparently you don't know anything about QNX.

    The technology is there all is needed is marketing to get developers and consumers interested.


    But, thanks for proving my point that RIM needs better marketing. You obviously haven't been informed, even by hanging out in a BlackBerry fanboy site.
    But in this post you're talking about the future when in your previous post you were talking about the past. I mean, why are you bringing up QNX now? What does that have to do with anything? Are there any QNX BlackBerry phones out right now? No. You said the iPhone only became popular because of its marketing, not because it was better than the competition at the time. QNX on BlackBerry phones didn't exist then, and it doesn't exist now.
    tjioer likes this.
    02-02-12 09:11 AM
  4. kemj's Avatar
    The "Memes" arrived.
    02-02-12 09:26 AM
  5. randall2580's Avatar
    Palm is not the comparison but Nokia might be.

    QNX brings a lot of hope but so far 1 year into Playbook's QNX and the next major revision won't bring native messaging, won't bring Skype, won't bring Netflx, and on and on.

    The marketing isn't going anywhere until RIM understands there are things these products need to do on day 1. The new CEO says he gets that. I am hopeful.
    02-02-12 09:38 AM
  6. Dapper37's Avatar
    I believe BBM will be on the 3/4G PlayBooks upon arrival.
    02-02-12 09:40 AM
  7. cntrydncr223's Avatar
    Interesting thoughts....
    I say "never say never". One never knows what can happen. RIM has excellent products and that goes a long way toward consumer loyalty.

    I agree with OP, and by the way, excellent write up. Thank you for that.
    02-02-12 11:21 AM
  8. purijagmohan's Avatar
    Gee, RIM's woes remind me a lot of my battle with cancer 13 years ago. My ex was calling Social Security to find out how much she was gonna get when I croaked. The Docs were telling me they didn't know why I was alive, and they were asking me if I wanted a DNR order. The vultures were circling with BBQ sauce and a gleam in their eyes, and all hope was lost.

    I looked the Green Ripper dead on and said 'Not yet'....

    No, they aren't riding the crest right now, but if they time it right, a big storm is way out to sea, so paddle hard, 'cause the waves are coming.
    My salute to you brave soul ... It's gonna end for every body one day but as long as we are alive let's fight on.
    02-02-12 11:22 AM
  9. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    My salute to you brave soul ... It's gonna end for every body one day but as long as we are alive let's fight on.
    +1
    I thought posting a comment with my own words may have not translated what I meant. Thanks for doing this the right way.
    02-02-12 11:30 AM
  10. LoganSix's Avatar
    But in this post you're talking about the future when in your previous post you were talking about the past. I mean, why are you bringing up QNX now? What does that have to do with anything? Are there any QNX BlackBerry phones out right now? No. You said the iPhone only became popular because of its marketing, not because it was better than the competition at the time. QNX on BlackBerry phones didn't exist then, and it doesn't exist now.
    Good grief, keep up.

    My posts have been about the past, present and the future.

    The iPod, was not a significant improvement over any other music player at the time. In fact, compared to others, it had less features and cost twice as much. But, because of some great marketing, it became the top player. The iPhone continued on that trend and benefited highly from the iPod's popularity. Don't believe me? Why don't you do a Google search and refresh your memory about all the buzz on the phone version of an iPod. Did the iPhone offer anything that other phones didn't offer? For the most part, no, because other phones offered applications at the time, but nobody marketed them as a must have. That's what Apple did, they made consumers believe that they needed apps on their phones and that's why you need a nice big screen on a phone with no buttons.

    So, since BlackBerry was stuck in the business world, it didn't really ponder apps as a selling point. Who cares about fart apps when you are supposed to be doing work (a whole other issue all together). But, since consumers were going crazy over these fart app phones, bosses took notice and wanted those cool gadgets in their companies. BlackBerry wasn't offering cool gadgets, they were offering business phones. And there we go.

    Now, BlackBerry has the tools to offer the same coolness as iOS or Android. And again, they are offering something of higher technological worth. But, unless they can market it, it won't sell. Developers won't develop for it. IT departments won't be pushed by non-tech CEOs to make them available to employees. And on and on we go.

    So, yes, marketing can save RIM, because they already have the technology to compete.
    02-02-12 12:34 PM
  11. HeezyBear's Avatar
    Good grief, keep up.

    My posts have been about the past, present and the future.

    The iPod, was not a significant improvement over any other music player at the time. In fact, compared to others, it had less features and cost twice as much. But, because of some great marketing, it became the top player. The iPhone continued on that trend and benefited highly from the iPod's popularity. Don't believe me? Why don't you do a Google search and refresh your memory about all the buzz on the phone version of an iPod. Did the iPhone offer anything that other phones didn't offer? For the most part, no, because other phones offered applications at the time, but nobody marketed them as a must have. That's what Apple did, they made consumers believe that they needed apps on their phones and that's why you need a nice big screen on a phone with no buttons.

    So, since BlackBerry was stuck in the business world, it didn't really ponder apps as a selling point. Who cares about fart apps when you are supposed to be doing work (a whole other issue all together). But, since consumers were going crazy over these fart app phones, bosses took notice and wanted those cool gadgets in their companies. BlackBerry wasn't offering cool gadgets, they were offering business phones. And there we go.

    Now, BlackBerry has the tools to offer the same coolness as iOS or Android. And again, they are offering something of higher technological worth. But, unless they can market it, it won't sell. Developers won't develop for it. IT departments won't be pushed by non-tech CEOs to make them available to employees. And on and on we go.

    So, yes, marketing can save RIM, because they already have the technology to compete.
    The iPhone became as successful as it did because of its superior usability that it maintains to this day. No doubt it had its shortcomings when it was introduced, but people forgave those because of said superior usability. However, year after year those shortcomings have been patched while still maintaining and sometimes enhancing its usability. Marketing can only get you so far. Usability is everything.

    The iPhone did then and does now have a great marketing campaign, but promotion is only one aspect of marketing. Product is another big aspect. And the fact is that while the promotion is great, it's the product that reinforces the promotion. Promotion would only get Apple so far if the product didn't perform to the degree it was promoted to.

    So let's go back to my original questions. Do you think if BlackBerry had a similar marketing campaign as Apple in 2010 when the iPhone 4 came out that it would make it easier to develop apps for BB OS6 devices? Or would the marketing have given the devices better cameras? Would the marketing stop people from having to do battery pulls? I mean, using your logic, that's what would happen. With better marketing, all the things that lower people's satisfaction with BlackBerrys would be washed away.
    tjioer likes this.
    02-02-12 03:23 PM
  12. anon1727506's Avatar
    Interesting thoughts....
    I say "never say never". One never knows what can happen. RIM has excellent products and that goes a long way toward consumer loyalty.

    I agree with OP, and by the way, excellent write up. Thank you for that.
    You do know that per a report by J.D. Power and Associates RIM was dead last in customer satisfaction in the US. One reason was because their "excellent products" are not really all that excellent. RIM is known for underpowered hardware and a glitchy OS. Thus the reason that in the US at least there is no consumer loyalty to RIM.

    We will have to wait and seen how the new device fair in comparison, but by all accounts the future does look brighter for RIM's hardware. Just not sure they will have all the other pieces in place...
    tjioer likes this.
    02-02-12 03:50 PM
  13. HeezyBear's Avatar
    You do know that per a report by J.D. Power and Associates RIM was dead last in customer satisfaction in the US. One reason was because their "excellent products" are not really all that excellent. RIM is known for underpowered hardware and a glitchy OS. Thus the reason that in the US at least there is no consumer loyalty to RIM.

    We will have to wait and seen how the new device fair in comparison, but by all accounts the future does look brighter for RIM's hardware. Just not sure they will have all the other pieces in place...
    Nah bro, you don't get it. If they market their products better, all the problems will go away.
    02-02-12 04:23 PM
  14. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    You do know that per a report by J.D. Power and Associates RIM was dead last in customer satisfaction in the US. One reason was because their "excellent products" are not really all that excellent. RIM is known for underpowered hardware and a glitchy OS. Thus the reason that in the US at least there is no consumer loyalty to RIM.

    We will have to wait and seen how the new device fair in comparison, but by all accounts the future does look brighter for RIM's hardware. Just not sure they will have all the other pieces in place...
    I wonder how many of those polled, have older models, predominantly distributed by the company they work for. There are a lot of people still loyal to the brand. The intense popularity of this site attests to that.
    02-02-12 04:28 PM
  15. LoganSix's Avatar
    Marketing can only get you so far. Usability is everything.
    Please tell me the wisdom that came to tell you that you needed your phone to do more than make a phone call? Have you ever heard of Ron Popeil?

    So let's go back to my original questions. Do you think if BlackBerry had a similar marketing campaign as Apple in 2010 when the iPhone 4 came out that it would make it easier to develop apps for BB OS6 devices? Or would the marketing have given the devices better cameras? Would the marketing stop people from having to do battery pulls? I mean, using your logic, that's what would happen. With better marketing, all the things that lower people's satisfaction with BlackBerrys would be washed away.
    Does the marketing for the iPhone give it better security? No, it doesn't. If the features are lacking then you market around them. If RIM had improved their marketing to show the strengths of the phones over going for the gee wizz factor, then they would be better off in their core market, which is commercial.

    Yes, a company needs to stay competitive, but not marketing your product properly will not win you customers. But, then there are just some people that you can't reach.
    Last edited by LoganSix; 02-03-12 at 06:40 AM. Reason: typo
    02-02-12 05:46 PM
  16. anon1727506's Avatar
    I wonder how many of those polled, have older models, predominantly distributed by the company they work for. There are a lot of people still loyal to the brand. The intense popularity of this site attests to that.
    Apple and Android have older devices on the market too... but those devices have an OS that is for the most part upgradable, and the hardware wasn't already outdated when it was release. So the Poll is what the Poll is - a fair assessment of people impression of different smartphones. And RIM has no one to blame but themselves for the poor reputation they have...

    Just look at a carrier site and they are still selling Tours and older Curves with OS6. So people that buy these, or are force to use them at work are going to "experience" BlackBerry through these devices.
    Last edited by scalemaster34; 02-24-12 at 12:40 PM.
    02-07-12 12:41 PM
  17. swyost's Avatar
    Seriously. But if only we had an example of a company that was losing business rapidly due to lack of innovation, was bleeding to the point it had to take money from it's main competitor in order stay afloat, then came roaring back and makes tons of money today. If ONLY there was an example like this, it would make people realize that a company that is bringing in $1 billion every 3 months and increasing market share overseas really isn't in such bad shape. Man, if there was just ONE example of a turn around like that. Oh well.
    Apple survived in large part because Microsoft wanted them to survive. Microsoft has also made a lot of money off the deal. They then had some well marketed products in new niches. It also wasn't the iPhone or iPad that turned Apple around, it was the iPod. 1) RIM will have to look long and hard for a niche product and market that doesn't already have several competitors; and 2) Don't bet on RIM's competitors in its primary market to be to be nearly as forward thinking as Microsoft was a decade ago. In particular, Apple (ironically) and Google would put them out of business without a second thought, and Microsoft is more interested in acquiring RIM them bailing them out. BTW, for those who insist that RIM is really in good shape, I'd suggest it is really time to take the rose colored glasses off. A bit of realism is a good thing and can help turn things around. RIM would not have a new CEO if things were going well....
    02-07-12 09:32 PM
  18. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    Apple and Android have older devices on the market too... but those devices have an OS that is for the most part upgradable, and the hardware wasn't already outdated when it was release. So the Poll is what the Poll is - a fair assessment of people impression of different smartphones. And RIM has no one to blame but themselves for the poor reputation they have...
    The first part I would dispute. While most consumers would upgrade at least every two years, corporations don't, and how many were handed iPhone 3's by IT.

    I do agree in many ways it is RIM's fault. No one can dispute they lagged in technology.
    02-08-12 07:26 AM
  19. LoganSix's Avatar
    Apple survived in large part because Microsoft wanted them to survive. Microsoft has also made a lot of money off the deal.
    Microsoft was facing Federal monopoly charges, they NEEDED Apple to survive to prevent being broken up.

    No, I don' t believe the current set of phone carriers are worried about facing monopoly charges. The point was, Apple was once down, but managed to turn things around from losing money to making money. As I have pointed out time and time again, RIM is still profitable, has no debt and is growing in market share in new markets (and apparently in Europe).

    The worst thing for RIM is to be bought by Microsoft and be gutted. RIM has purchased close to a dozen companies in the last year to improve their phone/user experience and make them more competitive, all they need to do know is let people know in a way better than they have done in the past.
    02-08-12 07:35 AM
  20. mjs416's Avatar
    It also wasn't the iPhone or iPad that turned Apple around, it was the iPod.
    Agreed. First came the ipod - then in the wonderful creativity that is Apple - they made an ipod that can make phone calls. Then they took the ipod that could make phone calls - stripped the communication antennae out and made it huge and called it the ipad.

    Next up - they'll take the ipad and shrink it down to the size of an ipod.
    02-08-12 07:37 AM
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