04-19-15 11:12 PM
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  1. MADBRADNYC's Avatar
    Your second sentence made me stop reading. The government should be for the people, by the people. Corporations are for money, regardless of impact on people.

    There's a reason there's things like environmental agency, of restrictions on mining and drilling. Life takes priority over profits.

    That's just being irrational.

    Posted via CB10
    Yes. The Gov should be for the people and by the people, but that is not what we have. Do you deny waste, fraud, and abuse? In the trillions? Private companies have a harder time the larger they get, but they do not want that and scale back often to compensate. Just ask Chen.

    Posted via CB10
    03-26-15 02:37 PM
  2. redlightblinking's Avatar
    What. That same rubber stamp that you guys give to neutrality? Asking at hearings where the whole community shows up against it, and they do it anyway. Like the MTA? That's a joke.

    Posted via CB10
    Not sure what you mean by rubber stamp, but yea, there is a process other than a simple note in your bill every six months. Compare electric rates over the last 20 years to cable rates and get back to us.

    Learn how your government works.
    03-26-15 02:38 PM
  3. MADBRADNYC's Avatar
    Um.... WRONG AGAIN.

    Telecommunications act of 1996 was a massive deregulation of the cable industry. Since then cable rates have quadrupled and only a few cable companies control the entire country.

    Telecommunications Act of 1996 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Learn how your government works.
    It was that same regulation that claimed to deregulate. LoL

    Posted via CB10
    03-26-15 02:42 PM
  4. MADBRADNYC's Avatar
    Not sure what you mean by rubber stamp, but yea, there is a process other than a simple note in your bill every six months. Compare electric rates over the last 20 years to cable rates and get back to us.

    Learn how your government works.
    That is not a process when "the people" say no, but it is done anyway. That is rubber stamping. Like a FISA court. It's going through the motions for appearances.

    Posted via CB10
    03-26-15 02:45 PM
  5. redlightblinking's Avatar
    That is not a process when "the people" say no, but it is done anyway. That is rubber stamping. Like a FISA court. It's going through the motions for appearances.

    Posted via CB10
    The "people" didn't say no. The people said yes. Just because YOU said no, doesn't mean the people representing you did. That's what's meant by representative government

    Learn how your government works.
    lift likes this.
    03-26-15 02:47 PM
  6. MADBRADNYC's Avatar
    Wow. You guys just love the Gov! I don't. Gov should remember that they work for us and not the other way around. I disagree with neutrality. That's my right. Just as you people have the right to seek governmental assistance when you want to.

    Posted via CB10
    03-26-15 02:53 PM
  7. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    ...
    Last edited by Shuswap; 04-01-15 at 05:27 PM.
    03-26-15 03:01 PM
  8. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    No one can say their light, gas, or water bills have gone down due to Gov interference and regulation. The same will happen with Internet access.
    I can. More accurately, I can state that I've been recompensed for over charges, seen rate increases shot down or reversed, and Ma Bell broken up due to gouging. Just a few years ago, after the entire metropolitan area consisting of 4-5 cities were under water restrictions due to a water shortage, we were all encouraged to conserve water. Afterwards, the water company tried to raise prices due to the populace doing "Too good of a job" conserving water, so they would have to raise prices to compensate for their loss in revenue. Regulators told the water company to stuff it. I've also seen regulation drop the price of electricity, and for the first time seen electricity cheaper than gas in our area, which was a real boon to me.


    Via Tapatalk
    lift, gvs1341, Eumaeus and 3 others like this.
    03-26-15 03:14 PM
  9. shupor's Avatar
    No good can ever come from Gov intervention in the private market, IMO.
    That's quite the silly assertion.
    Eumaeus likes this.
    03-26-15 04:08 PM
  10. RazzBerry's Avatar
    Best response I've heard yet on why Net Neutrality is NOT the way to go and why you need to think things through:
    On Net Neutrality, Even John Oliver Would Call John Oliver An Idiot
    03-26-15 04:26 PM
  11. TX Jedi's Avatar
    Hope this gets shot down in court. American Internet infrastructure is slower than post-communist states in Eastern Europe even before ISPs stick up content providers in order to stream faster.
    Clicked on link. First sentence says that Al Gore invented the internet. Stopped reading.
    mkelley65 likes this.
    03-26-15 04:58 PM
  12. thurask's Avatar
    Best response I've heard yet on why Net Neutrality is NOT the way to go and why you need to think things through:
    On Net Neutrality, Even John Oliver Would Call John Oliver An *****
    Occasional good point from that article (especially about how lobbyists need to be separated from government), but the rest of the site gave me a headache.

    Clicked on link. First sentence says that Al Gore invented the internet. Stopped reading.
    The joke
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    You
    Fret Madden likes this.
    03-26-15 05:06 PM
  13. anon3969612's Avatar
    Yes. The Gov should be for the people and by the people, but that is not what we have. Do you deny waste, fraud, and abuse? In the trillions? Private companies have a harder time the larger they get, but they do not want that and scale back often to compensate. Just ask Chen.

    Posted via CB10
    Enron
    Worldcom
    Global Crossing
    Tyco
    Adelphia
    AIG
    Lehman Bros
    Bear Stearns
    Bernie Madoff

    Yep, they all 'scaled back' alright.
    RazzBerry likes this.
    03-26-15 05:13 PM
  14. sleepngbear's Avatar
    No, we are not ignoring the reports. But this is far from the only thread with tons of crap being flung around. Now this one's been cleaned of most of its token ton and a half of crap. And because I have to go digging in the depths of the vault buried deep in the bowels of a little know storage area in an obscure outbuilding on the campus of CrackBerry's corporate offices to restock on infraction points, that's all that's happened. So far. So one last time....

    [warn]
    Play Nice, Be Helpful, and have Respect!
    This means keep the language clean, keep your posts polite, and dont get into arguments over dumb things. If somebody responds to a thread you posted in poor fashion, ignore it, and the moderation team will quickly clean it up (you can always message or email a moderator at any time if you observe anything that is in poor taste/against the rules). Think back to what your parentals and teachers used to lecture - if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all.
    Always remember that we are all unique and at different levels here - some of us are experienced BlackBerry users and forum junkies, while others are just starting out. If youre on the experienced side, have patience for those just joining in on the fun and be helpful. With a little patience and a little help they wont be newbies for long. Also remember that it is our differences that keeps this place interesting. If everyone was from the same place and at the same experience level it would be boring. This is a worldwide community united by a common interest - our love, or addiction as some would call it, for the BlackBerry![/warn]

    Last warning.
    03-26-15 06:34 PM
  15. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    I just find it hard to believe that these major ISPs are spending money for their attorneys to look out for us, their customers.
    Smitty13, grover5, Cynycl and 1 others like this.
    03-26-15 06:50 PM
  16. dbmalloy's Avatar
    The whole argument against net neutrality is that the free market competition will drive down price and increase service. If this was the case.. Why do we all pay the same price for gas. If anyone thinks that the service providers cares about the "little guy' I want some of what you are smoking... I live in a small community in Southern Canada.. less than 700 people.. the ISP made it clear there would be not internet service as they will never make their infrastructure investment back..... it took 4 years to get broadband service after the nearest city and only after it was mandated by the evil government... otherwise I would probably still using dial up... as it is I only get 5mb bandwidth... IPS has already said it will never be faster and if I do not like it... move to a city that has faster.... As ISP basically operate as a utility why not regulate them as such.... I trust corporations less than government as at least you can change a governement... you cannot change a corporation as they only answer to the almighty dollar.. Regulation is your only option.....
    grover5 likes this.
    03-26-15 08:06 PM
  17. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    I'm a libertarian. I believe in free markets, and in most cases, I'm against government regulation. However, I recognize that there are certain benefits to a de facto monopoly. Most of us live in areas with local monopolies on power, water, sewage, and other key pieces of infrastructure, and the reason those monopolies are allowed to exist is because of the huge expense and disruption that would result in doubling, tripling, or quadrupling that infrastructure. Image 3 or 4 times as many high-power transmission lines, or sewer pipes, or whatever. It's unrealistic, so government long ago granted companies monopoly rights to a given area in return for those companies falling under government regulation.

    What I think a lot of people don't realize is that the reason the AT&T, Verizon, Comcast, and Time Warners of the world have most of the Internet business is because they leveraged their pre-existing monopolies to provide it, effectively shutting out most competitors who, due to regulations, lack right-of-way and utility pole access that the phone and cable companies already enjoyed - usually as a monopoly. Yet, those companies are now trying to ask that they be able to continue their monopoly (or, duopoly) when it comes to the Internet, but WITHOUT their Internet services being regulated.

    In fact, that's more or less exactly been the situation. All of the above ISPs have the infrastructure and ability to provide much more service for much less money, but they have almost zero incentive to, because they are insulated from outside competition by virtue of their monopolies in right-of-way/utility pole access. Thus, we have slower Internet than most of the rest of the developed world at twice the price.

    Note that when a company like Google Fiber, or a local fiber company, wants to come into an area, it takes them months or (more often) YEARS to clear the red tape to allow them to have access to the infrastructure, even when the local governments are strongly in favor of having them come in. Read up on all of the problems Google has had bringing in Google Fiber due to this red tape. Most companies lack the time and resources to fight those many, many battles to enter the market, and in many areas, the local laws make it impossible.

    This is why that, say, Comcast can suddenly manage to offer VERY high-speed Internet access at much reduced rates in those few areas where they do have fiber competition, and yet all the other areas continue to get overcharged for much slower access. With no competition, there is no incentive to lower prices. The market is NOT "free" and never was - competition is nearly impossible under the current system.

    Net Neutrality is designed to prevent abuses of those monopolies (which already exist). Many people seem to be under the mistaken idea that Net Neutrality is awarding monopolies, but that happened decades ago. What Net Neutrality is actually doing is preventing a company like Comcast or Verizon, who have their own streaming TV & movie "on demand" services from artificially throttling Netflix or Hulu from providing the same content, or from charging them a ton of money not to artificially throttle them. Without Net Neutrality, nothing will prevent your ISP from charging you AND the respective service extra for you to, say, watch YouTube or stream Pandora or stream your UltraViolet or Netflix movies. They could even deny some services access at all - even though you are already paying for that access. That's already happening in fact - the cable companies have successfully extorted money from Netflix (Netflix subscribers: your bill will go up this year to pay those extra fees to the ISP you're already paying for access!), and having picked Netflix's pockets, they are eyeing other players. If you don't think they'll eventually go after smaller businesses, you're crazy.

    No other country does this, because other countries have net neutrality - ISPs are required to treat all traffic equally. If Net Neutrality fails in the US, many of you will be in for a big shock, as your ISP starts going after the services YOU use for a ton of money, or starts throttling or even blocking them altogether. And it will be perfectly legal.
    03-26-15 08:12 PM
  18. lnichols's Avatar
    Wow. You guys just love the Gov! I don't. Gov should remember that they work for us and not the other way around. I disagree with neutrality. That's my right. Just as you people have the right to seek governmental assistance when you want to.

    Posted via CB10
    The FCC is pretty needed IMHO. Without regulating the airwaves, nothing would work because anyone could use any frequency. Without forcing things like the switch to digital television, then their wouldn't have been all this 700 MHZ spectrum available to deploy expanded phone services.

    Now for net Neutrality, my understanding is that it is to prevent my ISP from charging me, or a company like Netflix, a cost to get that particular data, which has never been the way the Internet worked. It is to keep the Internet the way it has always worked, I buy my pipe and my provider gets my money for the pipe and I can use it to surf, watch or download whatever I want, and Netflix buys their pipe from their provider and delivers the services out that pipe and scales that pipe based on demand. The ISP's wanted the Netflix to pay for the right to use a pipe way down the line or they would block/throttle packets from Netflix. If this is what the FCC is doing, which is my understanding of the intention, then I'm all for it.

    If anything we can see in both the late 1920's and with the more recent crash what can happen without regulation and when regulations were rolled back and corporations went wild. As typical we were told those regulations were killing businesses and competition, but they were really protecting everyone else from greed. Alan Greenspan even said the collapse when grilled how did this happen and he responded that their models and theories didn't take corporate greed into account.

    Posted via CB10
    03-26-15 08:13 PM
  19. mkelley65's Avatar
    I don't call breaking up Ma Bell and Considated Edison deregulation. There has been nothing but regulation since then. Remember the anti-trust comments earlier?

    Posted via CB10
    Correct. It wasn't. It was called an Anti Trust Consent Decree. It had nothing to do with deregulation and the Telecommunications Act of 1996. In fact it happened 14 years earlier in 1982.
    03-26-15 08:17 PM
  20. mkelley65's Avatar
    I'm a libertarian. I believe in free markets, and in most cases, I'm against government regulation. However, I recognize that there are certain benefits to a de facto monopoly. Most of us live in areas with local monopolies on power, water, sewage, and other key pieces of infrastructure, and the reason those monopolies are allowed to exist is because of the huge expense and disruption that would result in doubling, tripling, or quadrupling that infrastructure. Image 3 or 4 times as many high-power transmission lines, or sewer pipes, or whatever. It's unrealistic, so government long ago granted companies monopoly rights to a given area in return for those companies falling under government regulation.

    What I think a lot of people don't realize is that the reason the AT&T, Verizon, Comcast, and Time Warners of the world have most of the Internet business is because they leveraged their pre-existing monopolies to provide it, effectively shutting out most competitors who, due to regulations, lack right-of-way and utility pole access that the phone and cable companies already enjoyed - usually as a monopoly. Yet, those companies are now trying to ask that they be able to continue their monopoly (or, duopoly) when it comes to the Internet, but WITHOUT their Internet services being regulated.

    In fact, that's more or less exactly been the situation. All of the above ISPs have the infrastructure and ability to provide much more service for much less money, but they have almost zero incentive to, because they are insulated from outside competition by virtue of their monopolies in right-of-way/utility pole access. Thus, we have slower Internet than most of the rest of the developed world at twice the price.

    Note that when a company like Google Fiber, or a local fiber company, wants to come into an area, it takes them months or (more often) YEARS to clear the red tape to allow them to have access to the infrastructure, even when the local governments are strongly in favor of having them come in. Read up on all of the problems Google has had bringing in Google Fiber due to this red tape. Most companies lack the time and resources to fight those many, many battles to enter the market, and in many areas, the local laws make it impossible.

    This is why that, say, Comcast can suddenly manage to offer VERY high-speed Internet access at much reduced rates in those few areas where they do have fiber competition, and yet all the other areas continue to get overcharged for much slower access. With no competition, there is no incentive to lower prices. The market is NOT "free" and never was - competition is nearly impossible under the current system.

    Net Neutrality is designed to prevent abuses of those monopolies (which already exist). Many people seem to be under the mistaken idea that Net Neutrality is awarding monopolies, but that happened decades ago. What Net Neutrality is actually doing is preventing a company like Comcast or Verizon, who have their own streaming TV & movie "on demand" services from artificially throttling Netflix or Hulu from providing the same content, or from charging them a ton of money not to artificially throttle them. Without Net Neutrality, nothing will prevent your ISP from charging you AND the respective service extra for you to, say, watch YouTube or stream Pandora or stream your UltraViolet or Netflix movies. They could even deny some services access at all - even though you are already paying for that access. That's already happening in fact - the cable companies have successfully extorted money from Netflix (Netflix subscribers: your bill will go up this year to pay those extra fees to the ISP you're already paying for access!), and having picked Netflix's pockets, they are eyeing other players. If you don't think they'll eventually go after smaller businesses, you're crazy.

    No other country does this, because other countries have net neutrality - ISPs are required to treat all traffic equally. If Net Neutrality fails in the US, many of you will be in for a big shock, as your ISP starts going after the services YOU use for a ton of money, or starts throttling or even blocking them altogether. And it will be perfectly legal.
    You left out the collusion these monopolies have that keep them from invading the others monopolies and being competitive.
    Smitty13 likes this.
    03-26-15 08:21 PM
  21. LoneStarRed's Avatar
    They're not trying to control the Internet, they just don't want ISPs to be a bunch of phalluses to their customers.
    That's what they WANT you to think! And when the over reaching and far ranging regulations about what you can and cannot say and other things suddenly appear what then? No way they should have that power!

    " I do not think that word means what you think it means. "
    RazzBerry likes this.
    03-26-15 10:33 PM
  22. LoneStarRed's Avatar
    The whole argument against net neutrality is that the free market competition will drive down price and increase service. If this was the case.. Why do we all pay the same price for gas. If anyone thinks that the service providers cares about the "little guy' I want some of what you are smoking... I live in a small community in Southern Canada.. less than 700 people.. the ISP made it clear there would be not internet service as they will never make their infrastructure investment back..... it took 4 years to get broadband service after the nearest city and only after it was mandated by the evil government... otherwise I would probably still using dial up... as it is I only get 5mb bandwidth... IPS has already said it will never be faster and if I do not like it... move to a city that has faster.... As ISP basically operate as a utility why not regulate them as such.... I trust corporations less than government as at least you can change a governement... you cannot change a corporation as they only answer to the almighty dollar.. Regulation is your only option.....
    Most of the price of gasoline is.......TAXES. Add to that local or regional environmental regulations and reluctance to tap local resources and is what keeps gas prices high. Europe as well. The environmentalists have the political clout and admitted that they want to keep petrol prices high to discourage driving.

    http://www.exxonmobilperspectives.co...ll_Site_Mobile

    " I do not think that word means what you think it means. "
    03-26-15 10:35 PM
  23. LoneStarRed's Avatar
    All this was, was a power grab by the government to control content. End of story. They only want you to believe they care about you so you don't throw a fit about it. Pretty much everything big brother touches turns to crap for the people.

    Posted via CB10
    THIS!

    Changes are needed! But the pretext that many believe will be fixed is not what is actually drafted and planned!

    " I do not think that word means what you think it means. "
    03-26-15 10:44 PM
  24. scrapmetal58's Avatar
    Wow. This thread is just... wow.
    Knowledge is power.
    As a Canadian, I find it funny when some Americans (sorry, no offence) talk about socialism or the "welfare state". You do realise that libraries, police forces, public schools, roads, fire fighters, etc. are all socialised services...
    I'm very glad that the CRTC (Canadian version of the FCC) regulates the industry. They have proposed a few very welcome changes coming up that gives more choice and power to the consumer from the providers.
    Canada and Canadians have been watching the Net Neutrality "bill", "lol", very closely to see how it turns out. There's been talk of it happening here, as well. I hope it does.

    Posted via CB10
    playbook_swiper1 likes this.
    03-26-15 11:48 PM
  25. birdman_38's Avatar
    I'm very glad that the CRTC (Canadian version of the FCC) regulates the industry. They have proposed a few very welcome changes coming up that gives more choice and power to the consumer from the providers.
    They also make it hard for Canadian providers to compete, driving prices up in the process.
    03-26-15 11:55 PM
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