06-02-15 08:39 AM
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  1. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    I'd argue that it's quite the opposite. Android is too important to Samsung. Without Android, Samsung's smartphone sales would tank, resulting in huge losses for them. There are plenty of other Android device manufacturers that would easily maintain sales should Samsung breach the OHA agreements. Android sales wouldn't tank, but instead LG, Huawei, Moto, Asus, etc... would see their sales skyrocket.

    Samsung is less important to Android/Google than risking the combined remainder of the OHA.

    Penned via Tapatalk
    Never said that Android sales would tank as a whole, but I think that a lot of people are understating Samsung's importance "in the West", in this thread.
    Samsung, at least based on sale numbers and mindshare, is basically Android.

    None of the aforementioned players could take over Samsung's market in any meaningful time frame.
    And Google is well aware of that.

    As much as I am someone who believes that Huawei/ZTE etc will make in-roads into our markets, through mind-bogglingly small prices, the time is not yet here.
    The vast majority of consumers still hasn't understood that they can get a Samsung Galaxy S6 (normal) for more or less half the price.

    In Asian and emerging markets, I fully agree with you. Samsung's share would probably disappear rather quickly, but in "the West", Samsung is Android and the only contender to Apple.

    There is a huge interdependence here between Samsung and Google and both are obviously aware of that.
    I don't want to say that Samsung has the upper hand. It very probably never was the case.
    But they are important enough to fight smaller fights.
    (Again, Blackberry is probably too unimportant. So I do not even want to imply that Samsung would breach the OHA contracts for them).

    It should also be of note that a lawsuit takes time.
    If Samsung breaches the OHA agreements, it's not like they would stop selling devices 12 hours later.

    In the grand scheme of things I agree with you and Troy.
    But, specifically in the now (and probably for some quarters to come) as well as concerning Western markets, I do think that Samsung is too important for Google, to just dump them over a little breach of their OHA agreements.
    05-28-15 03:48 AM
  2. trsbbs's Avatar
    I thought Chen said restructuring was over and it was time to rebuild. Then he pulls this. Nice.. Not!

    Via my HTC One M9...
    techvisor likes this.
    05-28-15 08:08 AM
  3. RyanGermann's Avatar
    We heard all this when the Q10, the Passport and the Classic launches. Each device was going to bring the BlackBerry people back to BlackBerry. None has. Now it's some version of all three combined..... Sorry don't buy it.
    Fair enough... there are reasons for launching a powerful full touch device a.s.a.p., but if the Classic and Z30 didn't bring BlackBerry people back, neither would the powerful full touch. I won't feel satisfaction saying "I told you so" when a full touch powerhouse 'fails like everything else'... I won't say it at all if "powerful full touch = BB10 market share gains" advocates don't try to rationalize why the powerful full touch 'failed' (your word, not mine) in the same way, and I'll 'go nucular' if said people criticize the device launch if it's not a 500 million dollar extravaganza: the device in and of itself is 'the savior' isn't it? BB's current device portfolio is 'failing' simply because they're 'not what people want', right? So it stands to reason that if 'what people want' is a full slab powerhouse, if 'the people' are made aware of the device's existence, 'the people' will buy it and BB10 market share gains will result, right? Do I correctly understand?

    That, I don't buy.
    05-28-15 10:08 AM
  4. lnichols's Avatar
    Fair enough... there are reasons for launching a powerful full touch device a.s.a.p., but if the Classic and Z30 didn't bring BlackBerry people back, neither would the powerful full touch. I won't feel satisfaction saying "I told you so" when a full touch powerhouse fails like everything else... I won't say it at all if you and other 'powerful full touch = BB10 market share gains" advocates don't try to rationalize why you were 'wrong', and I'll 'go nucular' if said people criticize the device launch if it's not a 500 million dollar extravaganza: the device on and of itself is 'the savior' isn't it? BB's current device portfolio is 'failing' simply because they're 'not what people want', right? So it stands to reason that if 'what people want' is a full slab powerhouse, if 'the people' are made aware of the device's existence, 'the people' will buy it and BB10 market share gains will result, right? Do I correctly understand?
    The Z30 wasn't available to most of the US until late last summer, almost a year after the phone was released, and the version available isn't a US frequency optimized version. It was only carried by Verizon, which had a different version than the rest of the world and actually was different in thickness from all different versions. The shopblackberry.com version has no LTE support on AT&T, works on the T-Mobile 1700 LTE band but is missing the 1900 and 700 LTE band support. BlackBerry could never fully back the Z30 because the company they contracted to build it ended their relationship with BlackBerry. I guess Chen decided to let it die by putting no effort into it instead of pushing it and moving the manufacturing to another supplier.

    Posted via Z30
    Last edited by lnichols; 05-28-15 at 11:26 AM.
    techvisor likes this.
    05-28-15 10:19 AM
  5. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    It was only carried by Verizon, which had a different version than the rest of the world and actually was different in thickness from all different versions.
    Wireless charging, isn't it ?

    We heard all this when the Q10, the Passport and the Classic launches. Each device was going to bring the BlackBerry people back to BlackBerry. None has. Now it's some version of all three combined..... Sorry don't buy it. Every prediction of PKB BlackBerry devices bringing in the second coming have all been wrong. The people that are going to stay with PKB have, the others have left and found they don't handed them anymore, and others switched to BB10 all touch from PKB and don't want to go back. The only people out there that on BBOS, or who left who will switch back are only going to do so for some BIS alternative and cheap phone because they are either cheap skates or in a hell hole for cell service. I think BlackBerry has all the PKB people they are going to get with the devices they have and the remaining pool out there is too small to cater too with any more niche devices.

    Posted via Z30
    Some recent inputs here (me quoting M.S Faucette... salt it a lot - dated: today ) :
    Although an estimated ⅔ of the enterprise base is still legacy devices, our checks found the refresh cycle at enterprise accounts underwhelming to date. While momentum could improve as channel relationships improve, our checks and our recent CIO Survey found respondents expecting to purchase fewer BlackBerry devices.
    So - even if we half believe this - it apears the transition has not even started, to be honest.
    We'll see how the Leap perform in the (current and) next E.Rs. Stay tuned.
    Last edited by Superfly_FR; 05-29-15 at 08:49 AM. Reason: Faucette, not Misek !!! sry
    05-29-15 08:44 AM
  6. lnichols's Avatar
    Wireless charging, isn't it ?



    Some recent inputs here (me quoting M.S Faucette... salt it a lot - dated: today ) :

    So - even if we half believe this - it apears the transition has not even started, to be honest.
    We'll see how the Leap perform in the (current and) next E.Rs. Stay tuned.
    Agencies in the US Federal Government are in full refresh. They should be one of the last just due to requirements, testing, and bureaucracy. The only thing left that hasn't been seen is getting revenue in managing iPhones via BES12. I know there are projects for this now.

    The issue is still apps. BB10 has done nothing to correct the app problem, and that is making people look at the competition. I see BlackBerry at best being an MDM for fleet iOS devices with BES12. Best security from MDM perspective, best apps from phone perspective.

    Posted via Z30
    techvisor likes this.
    05-29-15 10:25 AM
  7. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    I see BlackBerry at best being an MDM for fleet iOS devices with BES12. Best security from MDM perspective, best apps from phone perspective.
    That's obviously (add android work/knox) the main area of profitability.
    Still, as Chen stated lately, there are still highly regulated segments where BB10 devices are still unmatched in a end to end security scenario.

    oops, we're slightly going OT
    05-31-15 03:47 AM
  8. lnichols's Avatar
    That's obviously (add android work/knox) the main area of profitability.
    Still, as Chen stated lately, there are still highly regulated segments where BB10 devices are still unmatched in a end to end security scenario.

    oops, we're slightly going OT
    Yes but the issue is that those highly regulated segments, like the one I work at, still want apps. BB10 can't deliver there. Chen killed off what little native development was there, and Android apps in the work space is not possible at the moment, and even if it were we all see how Google has locked down Android with Play services. BB10 is basically like BBOS on the corporate / Government side : great communications OS, but no apps. So you have all this computing power in your hands and it can only do BBM, email, and Web browser on BES (and a couple other things like RSA for the few apps available). Unless addressed, and in a way that isn't a kluge like the Android runtime, BB10 will die completely.

    As for Android/Knox, I see Apple getting their stuff fully together in iOS 9 with security, and taking over much of the regulated space from Google and BlackBerry. Maybe they will even release their own MDM solution. BlackBerry can't compete any more on any level. They have tons of great patents, and no talent or resources to implement them.

    Posted via Z30
    05-31-15 07:24 AM
  9. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Chen killed off what little native development was there
    That's a point I disagree with.
    As much as I supported and liked Thorsten/Alec amazing efforts to promote BB10 native apps at launch, it is now clear that the lack of focus on enterprises (by this time it was consistent, marketing wise) was just "too big for boots". Blaming Chen is more than unfair.

    Chen has restored a - still thin but better than none - opportunity for "work apps" to find a particular segment with little efforts (I'm talking about studios, not individual developpers). More, it'll promote their - paying/ fee recurring - services.

    We're now in the "connected objects" (read : SAAS 2.0) era, where those "apps" will more and more turn out to be cache and connectors more than processing ones. I'm still in the -very- early steps to re-focus my own business around this concept. And as far as I dig, I've not yet identified anyone with the same potential (read : one stop solution) than BES.

    As for "convinience/media/fun" apps ... there's personal space for that.

    (we're now 100% OT ! Sorry)
    06-01-15 04:59 AM
  10. lnichols's Avatar
    That's a point I disagree with.
    As much as I supported and liked Thorsten/Alec amazing efforts to promote BB10 native apps at launch, it is now clear that the lack of focus on enterprises (by this time it was consistent, marketing wise) was just "too big for boots". Blaming Chen is more than unfair.

    Chen has restored a - still thin but better than none - opportunity for "work apps" to find a particular segment with little efforts (I'm talking about studios, not individual developpers). More, it'll promote their - paying/ fee recurring - services.

    We're now in the "connected objects" (read : SAAS 2.0) era, where those "apps" will more and more turn out to be cache and connectors more than processing ones. I'm still in the -very- early steps to re-focus my own business around this concept. And as far as I dig, I've not yet identified anyone with the same potential (read : one stop solution) than BES.

    As for "convinience/media/fun" apps ... there's personal space for that.

    (we're now 100% OT ! Sorry)
    And I'm telling you that the big boys that developed the Enterprise apps now, like a Cisco, don't consider BlackBerry to be worth the effort to make a Jabber app to interface with the Call Manager. Every vendor I talk to about apps say that BlackBerry isn't in their plans. I have talked to them myself. Even when you tell them you will have 60,000 phones, they don't care. Where is Microsoft Office suite (no that POS Docs to go is not an equivalent or even close). Only genuine business apps I see are Citrix Client, and RSA and that is it.

    Posted via Z30
    06-01-15 12:06 PM
  11. Sulaco757's Avatar
    And I'm telling you that the big boys that developed the Enterprise apps now, like a Cisco, don't consider BlackBerry to be worth the effort to make a Jabber app to interface with the Call Manager. Every vendor I talk to about apps say that BlackBerry isn't in their plans. I have talked to them myself. Even when you tell them you will have 60,000 phones, they don't care. Where is Microsoft Office suite (no that POS Docs to go is not an equivalent or even close). Only genuine business apps I see are Citrix Client, and RSA and that is it.

    Posted via Z30
    Well put. It's not just the amount of apps, but the quality and type. BlackBerry can be said that it is focusing on Enterprise, but it definitely doesn't have it locked up and has a ways to go. Only makes it more interesting what Chen's fix in the app gap could be. He seems pretty confident about it in interviews.

     Q10 on 10.3.1.2582 
    06-01-15 12:25 PM
  12. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    And I'm telling you that the big boys that developed the Enterprise apps now, like a Cisco, don't consider BlackBerry to be worth the effort to make a Jabber app to interface with the Call Manager. Every vendor I talk to about apps say that BlackBerry isn't in their plans. I have talked to them myself. Even when you tell them you will have 60,000 phones, they don't care. Where is Microsoft Office suite (no that POS Docs to go is not an equivalent or even close). Only genuine business apps I see are Citrix Client, and RSA and that is it.

    Posted via Z30
    Cisco annyconnect app was released this year. Just so you know..

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.2582
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    06-01-15 12:56 PM
  13. lnichols's Avatar
    Cisco annyconnect app was released this year. Just so you know..

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.2582
    Oh I have it, waiting for the ASA I ordered to come in to see how it works. It really isn't an app as much as it loads up an Any connect profile in the native VPN section of the device. It doesn't load up and Anyconnect icon on the app launcher space to launch the VPN connection like on the other platforms. This leads me to believe that BlackBerry did the development with Cisco's blessing. Cisco also have WebEx and appear to be keeping that up to date. I'm just stating what my reps tell me, and that I hear it from many other companies. BlackBerry is not considered a major enterprise player by other vendors, even in the heavily regulated space which I work in.

    Posted via Z30
    06-01-15 02:06 PM
  14. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    Oh I have it, waiting for the ASA I ordered to come in to see how it works. It really isn't an app as much as it loads up an Any connect profile in the native VPN section of the device. It doesn't load up and Anyconnect icon on the app launcher space to launch the VPN connection like on the other platforms. This leads me to believe that BlackBerry did the development with Cisco's blessing. Cisco also have WebEx and appear to be keeping that up to date. I'm just stating what my reps tell me, and that I hear it from many other companies. BlackBerry is not considered a major enterprise player by other vendors, even in the heavily regulated space which I work in.

    Posted via Z30
    It's an app integrated with the OS which means Cisco was willing to work with BlackBerry. Reps say bs all the time apparently. Where are the facts to back that up?

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.2582
    06-01-15 02:12 PM
  15. lnichols's Avatar
    It's an app integrated with the OS which means Cisco was willing to work with BlackBerry. Reps say bs all the time apparently. Where are the facts to back that up?

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.2582
    This wasn't a sales rep it was a sales engineer talking to the main engineering team lead on the product line about the client. They knew about the Android app and knew it didn't work. I don't deal much with reps and deal with the engineering side of things. But keep making assumptions.

    Posted via Z30
    06-02-15 06:44 AM
  16. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    There isn't a real deal stating that BlackBerry is still behind regarding apps, including business apps.
    My point is that the nature of these apps is evolving and that focusing in this direction is the proper path to follow.
    As Chen stated, they're roughly still half way and successfully made the company profitable again, away from the for sale sign (despites what many pretend in these forums). So, it's a near-future approach. As for Cisco and al, time will tell but I'd guess they kind of ticked out BlackBerry a while ago and re-considering their position will take some time.

    As I wrote, I'm personally involved in two projects and both cover this integration needs, whether we have to develop the "connectors" in house or use BES extension features to offer a single stop offering in specific areas (one being mass storage). This doesn't mean we have to use specific (client) apps, but mostly connect to [web] services [for example] in an appropriate/secure manner and aggregate/display the results in a customizable way.
    06-02-15 08:39 AM
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