06-02-15 09:39 AM
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  1. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    They are under contract for another 9 years and would a legal battle just to make a few hundred thousand BB10 devices really be worth it? They have their own OS and plenty others to choose from which leaves the question, why choose BlackBerry?
    Oh, I fully agree that BlackBerry is not worth the hassle.
    I just do not believe that Samsung would bow down to Google, if they ever would find a project they deem as worthy of a little fight.

    Samsung can leverage their position in the marketplace if necessary, as long as it is something trivial like making handset for an Android fork.
    As THE Android manufacturer worldwide and the only one with a traditionally strong foothold in western markets, everything else simply wouldn't make sense.

    That's all I wanted to say. It's highly unlikely that they would do it for BlackBerry though.
    twiggyrj likes this.
    05-25-15 06:53 AM
  2. wilber1's Avatar
    Mmmaybe they are just down sizing the double typing division Just sayin .
    dbq10 and Soapm like this.
    05-25-15 10:19 AM
  3. keithhackneysmullet's Avatar
    Heins had a very small window of opportunity to try and make BB10 a success and once that failed the plan was to sell the company. It would already be sold but the offers they did get weren't good so IMHO the board said why rush, since I'm sure many shareholders were already losing a lot of money. Chen's job coming in was to continue to slowly strip down Blackberry to the bare essentials, to make BB look more attractive to a possible buyer, and to sell for the best possible price he can get.
    This is the exact truth that many here refuse to accept.

    Posted via CB10
    05-25-15 10:29 AM
  4. keithhackneysmullet's Avatar
    BB outsourced hardware from the very beginning, as most companies do. Like Apple, BB designed the hardware, but they only had a very small, low-volume production facility near Waterloo that made pre-production prototypes and low-volume production runs - a single-digit percentage of their overall hardware output. All of the rest were outsourced to companies like Jabil Circuit, Wistron, Quanta, and now Foxconn/Hon Hai. BB closed their Waterloo plant in 2013 and sold off the real estate in 2014.

    What has changed is not the manufacturing, but the fact that BB is now having Foxconn do the design work for a few phones (Z3, Leap) as well. The keyboard phones are still being designed in-house, but this recent news is that they are cutting some of that staff, so who knows?

    As far as the "rumor-that-just-won't-die" that Samsung might build BB phones, that is prohibited by the Open Handset Alliance, which bans members from manufacturing phones, for themselves or others, that use non-Google-Certified Android code. BB10 would cause BB phones to fall under that prohibition, so don't hold your breath waiting for Samsung to be designing or building phones for BB (they can sell individual components, though).
    If BlackBerry were to drop the runtime or drop bb10 for android then Samsung as a partner is reality.
    05-25-15 10:37 AM
  5. sk8er_tor's Avatar
    BlackBerry's new communications manager needs to use this as a wake-up call. Over the weekend and today, news agencies have used this news to once again slam BlackBerry with headlines like "New Wave of Layoffs at Struggling BlackBerry" and "BlackBerry Announces New Round of Layoffs."

    Layoffs are never good, however what makes the news worse is that BlackBerry isn't disclosing information on it. Are we talking 10 people? 50? 500? How is this good for BlackBerry's future? Why are these layoffs happening after we were told we were done with layoffs? Who knows but newspapers and online sites sure are having a field day with it. BlackBerry needs to be ahead of this information and release details first, including what and why this is being done. Instead, they're quiet and let journalists' fantasies run wild.
    05-25-15 11:28 AM
  6. KR2013's Avatar
    Why are these layoffs happening after we were told we were done with layoffs?
    It is getting harder to trust or understand any BlackBerry news/claims these days!
    05-25-15 11:54 AM
  7. sk8er_tor's Avatar
    It is getting harder to trust or understand any BlackBerry news/claims these days!
    The reality is that after a few acquisitions, there is bound to be redundancy and some layoffs are expected. The issue here is a PR and communications problem.
    thymaster likes this.
    05-25-15 11:59 AM
  8. lnichols's Avatar
    The reality is that after a few acquisitions, there is bound to be redundancy and some layoffs are expected. The issue here is a PR and communications problem.
    Except none of the acquisitions are hardware, and that is apparently where most of the layoffs occurred. The issue is that it will be harder for BlackBerry to keep the agenda hidden from most BlackBerry consumers that it will impact the most, maybe causing a massive flight from the platform I'm in both BBOS and BB10, which would be disastrous before being bought. Frankly I think it would be great if every BlackBerry consumer left, leaving Chen and Prem with their d1cks in their hand and collapsing the stock price causing whoever buys them to get them for cheap. That's what those two deserve IMHO.

    Posted via Z30
    sentimentGX4 and techvisor like this.
    05-25-15 02:14 PM
  9. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Except none of the acquisitions are hardware, and that is apparently where most of the layoffs occurred. The issue is that it will be harder for BlackBerry to keep the agenda hidden from most BlackBerry consumers that it will impact the most, maybe causing a massive flight from the platform I'm in both BBOS and BB10, which would be disastrous before being bought. Frankly I think it would be great if every BlackBerry consumer left, leaving Chen and Prem with their d1cks in their hand and collapsing the stock price causing whoever buys them to get them for cheap. That's what those two deserve IMHO.

    Posted via Z30
    Sounds like your reputation might take a hit if BlackBerry pulls another BlackBerry...
    05-25-15 02:17 PM
  10. lawguyman's Avatar
    This is, to me as a fan of BlackBerry phones, very sad.

    BlackBerry has again chosen to shrink it's devices business in order to make it profitable. Problem is that it won't work. Tech requires investment in order to grow. Without investment, sales will continue to decline, requiring more cuts.

    Let's face it, Phones are not a priority for BlackBerry anymore. Read their email about these layoffs and that is what BlackBerry says!

    http://recode.net/2015/05/23/blackbe...-handset-unit/

    BlackBerry will live on but the only part of it that I like is sadly almost gone.

    Posted via CB10
    05-25-15 03:23 PM
  11. lnichols's Avatar
    So don't push sales and cut the sales force equal no growth. Now cut handsets and increase sales force..... my guess is again no growth. What are they going to sell QNX powered Maserati? They keep throwing out IoT in the buzzword bingo, but I don't think they have anything but Vaporware there and are still trying to figure out what it is.

    Imagine if they invested in both handsets and a sales force. This company is just doing their yearly reorganizing to keep investors off their back while they still try to find a buyer and make the business look better. Chen has to make it like like his turnaround "plan" is working.

    Posted via Z30
    techvisor likes this.
    05-25-15 03:44 PM
  12. lawguyman's Avatar
    With the new book coming out about BlackBerry's rise and fall, one thing stands out in my mind. BlackBerry missed the boat when it came to competing with iPhone because BlackBerry was sure it knew what it's customers wanted. Lazaridis and Balsillie thought iPhone posed no threat because it was not secure, had a glass keyboard, and poor battery life.

    Isn't Chen doubling down on that same failed strategy by hyping security, physical keyboards, and battery life?

    It seems very obvious to me that this strategy was not a good one if the goal was ever to grow the hardware business.

    Posted via CB10
    techvisor likes this.
    05-25-15 04:01 PM
  13. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    I understand the point, but I am not buying it, that this would apply to Samsung.
    Samsung is basically Android in the West. If they absolutely want to make things for BlackBerry, they can.
    They are simply too important for Android (currently).

    So, the bottleneck would be Samsung's willingness imho.
    And I see exactly no reason at all, that Samsung would start a little fight against Google just for BlackBerry and a few hundred thousand phones more per quarter.

    But overall, I think that the OHA argument is weak, when applied to Samsung.
    I'd argue that it's quite the opposite. Android is too important to Samsung. Without Android, Samsung's smartphone sales would tank, resulting in huge losses for them. There are plenty of other Android device manufacturers that would easily maintain sales should Samsung breach the OHA agreements. Android sales wouldn't tank, but instead LG, Huawei, Moto, Asus, etc... would see their sales skyrocket.

    Samsung is less important to Android/Google than risking the combined remainder of the OHA.

    Penned via Tapatalk
    05-25-15 04:04 PM
  14. Soapm's Avatar
    With the new book coming out about BlackBerry's rise and fall, one thing stands out in my mind. BlackBerry missed the boat when it came to competing with iPhone because BlackBerry was sure it knew what it's customers wanted. Lazaridis and Balsillie thought iPhone posed no threat because it was not secure, had a glass keyboard, and poor battery life.
    What's worse is these were the guys who wouldn't give us a camera... Kept including the WAP browser and I don't need to mention BBM... And yes, they thought they knew what consumers wanted???
    techvisor likes this.
    05-25-15 04:05 PM
  15. lawguyman's Avatar
    So don't push sales and cut the sales force equal no growth. Now cut handsets and increase sales force..... my guess is again no growth. What are they going to sell QNX powered Maserati? They keep throwing out IoT in the buzzword bingo, but I don't think they have anything but Vaporware there and are still trying to figure out what it is.

    Imagine if they invested in both handsets and a sales force. This company is just doing their yearly reorganizing to keep investors off their back while they still try to find a buyer and make the business look better. Chen has to make it like like his turnaround "plan" is working.

    Posted via Z30
    The hardware short term goal is to replace all the BBOS devices in corporate fleets with new BlackBerry phones. The problem is that the world has moved on. Those old phones aren't getting replaced.

    Posted via CB10
    05-25-15 04:05 PM
  16. lawguyman's Avatar
    What's worse is these were the guys who wouldn't give us a camera... Kept including the WAP browser and I don't need to mention BBM... And yes, they thought they knew what consumers wanted???
    That's the issue: CONSUMERS were not thought of as BlackBerry's core customers. Everything that happened follows from that.

    Posted via CB10
    Soapm likes this.
    05-25-15 04:07 PM
  17. z10Jobe's Avatar
    Wow... the doom and gloom posts on here are truly depressing.

    So much so that my Uber excellent Q5 mocks all you nay sayers with every click and every clack! BlackBerry will be just fine.

    No go outside and enjoy the nice weather. Spring is finally here.

    Posted via CB10
    thymaster likes this.
    05-26-15 08:58 PM
  18. Sulaco757's Avatar
    They haven't released a phone that a Z user, likely their largest installed base would upgrade to. They took a year to get a Q10 with a tool belt developed and delivered. The Passport while getting attention, isn't selling well. The Leap, well I hope someone committed to buy a lot because it is pretty lame compare to the Z30.

    Posted via Z30
    Yes, no Z50 upgrades... when will people learn that isn't Chen's endgame? All of the BB10 phones run 10.3.X cleanly and smoothly. You can buy any BB10 phone now and it is optimized to run reliably. Even with their outdated yet reliable dualcore SOCs and hardware. They cut out of the tech race and the endless updating of perfectly good hardware with more flashbang features like QuadHD screens and Octacores. Is that needed for a reliable enterprise phone? The Passport finally saw "flagship" specs because it needed to compete at that level, but every other new device has been a fleetphone that IT departments can purchase in large numbers and low costs. The Classic is an upgrade for legacy Bold holdouts and runs identical to the Q10.

    Took a year to get the Classic? Of course, it took a while to speed things up with Foxconn which BlackBerry is realizing have delays in manufacturing. Want the white, blue, copper Classic? Guess who's fault it is that we dont have them? Foxconn's and its something Apple and Motorola deal with as well.

    I'm personally happy that the BB10 phones use similar hardware, it means BlackBerry devices will be supported for years to come. They dont force upgrades like Apple or Samsung. How many iPhone 4's or Galaxy SIII do you see around? Its not because the devices don't work or broke. Its because those users got "un-optimized" into upgrading. I think if Apple tries that with the enterprise sector and the vast iPhone 5s sold there, Enterprise will buck back. Meanwhile BlackBerry will still support Company IT departments with an effective EMM solution that offers reliable entry level midgrade phones and a few flashy flagships, built by Foxconn and Samsung.

    THATS what leaving the consumer market to focus on Enterprise looks like folks. Not a Z50. Its ensuring the Z10 and Z30 work for years to come. Chen has been saying this from the beginning and it means BlackBerry hardware is still a part of the equation. Its just not going to be built by BlackBerry anymore. Chen's plan doesnt require selling 50 million devices to work, because its tapping into the millions of BB10 devices that failed under the previous regime. Chen isn't relying on the phone business when its already a saturated market. He's positioning BlackBerry for the Mobile Enterprise business which is so much more than hardware.

     Q10 on 10.3.1.2582 
    05-27-15 10:20 AM
  19. RyanGermann's Avatar
    They haven't released a phone that a Z user, likely their largest installed base would upgrade to. They took a year to get a Q10 with a tool belt developed and delivered. The Passport while getting attention, isn't selling well. The Leap, well I hope someone committed to buy a lot because it is pretty lame compare to the Z30.
    The use of.the word 'likely' is an improvement, but let's wait 'til late June to get device sales figures. I may actually go to the shareholders meeting that time and ask pointed questions about the device design strategy and why it is important for shareholders to know the breakdown, even though competitors will also know, because we need to trust that the strategy is sound to stay "long" on BB.

    Posted via CB10
    MarsupilamiX and Sulaco757 like this.
    05-27-15 12:21 PM
  20. lnichols's Avatar
    The use of.the word 'likely' is an improvement, but let's wait 'til late June to get device sales figures. I may actually go to the shareholders meeting that time and ask pointed questions about the device design strategy and why it is important for shareholders to know the breakdown, even though competitors will also know, because we need to trust that the strategy is sound to stay "long" on BB.

    Posted via CB10
    I would gladly support that question. It is ridiculous that they are not providing that information. I can safely say that the Z10 has sold at least 3.7 Million units based on the numbers from the March 2013 and June 2013 Conference calls because the Q10 wasn't released until late in May 2013 and shouldn't be included in either of those two sets of BB10 device numbers. That would account for 37% of Bb10 total sales based on them selling about 10 Million Bb10 devices total, which I believe is the last number I heard, and those are also at pre write down discounting too. Now it is clear that they have been moving more Z10 devices since then. But it is impossible to know too much beyond first two quarters in even numbers of BB10 devices total, and definitely no way to break it down by device. Very disappointing and I don't see why investors stand for it.

    Posted via Z30
    05-27-15 03:48 PM
  21. RyanGermann's Avatar
    I can safely say that the Z10 has sold at least 3.7 Million units based on the numbers from the March 2013 and June 2013 Conference calls because the Q10 wasn't released until late in May 2013 and shouldn't be included in either of those two sets of BB10 device numbers.
    That's completely true, but that was due to pent up demand for the most part (the very most substantial "most part") which included a LOT of marketing and technology press coverage etc... and well before the app gap was obvious, glaring, and unresolveable. In short, selling that many full slab devices (or possibly ANY form factor) is very VERY VERY unlikely to be repeated.

    When it is stated "The full slab BB10 devices sold best", the HUUUUUGE grain of salt you have to take that statement with is what I describe above. It's not a credible data point to say "BB users prefer the full slab" because frankly, lots of those Z10 buyers got fed up and left for other platforms, so if anything, it's equally fair to say "the user experience of BB10 on full slab devices destroyed BlackBerry's reputation"... but since neither things are really "fair" to say, let's go back to full slab advocates being honest: "I perfer full slab, and I don't care how well it sells, I would like BlackBerry to produce one so I can buy it and enjoy BB10 on a really fast device, but I have no expectations that it will be a boon to BlackBerry i.e. reset customer perception about BB and BB10 and grow market share: I want it because *I* want it, but hopefully BB could produce it in a manner that isn't loss-making for them."

    I think a slider Passport, as huge as it is, as "BlackBerry" as it is, as shown in my avatar with the toolbelt, would do more for BlackBerry than a full slab: different, VERY different, a true "alternative" to other devices, and you know, I bet there would be plenty who would consider it, especially those Galaxy Note and Note 2 owners looking for a HUGE device to upgrade to. There are 10s of millions of them!

    It's just a fantasy, it will probably never happen, I am just basing my "feeling" about differentiated devices on the inertia I believe most Android and iOS users feel, and the need for the devices to really stand out head and shoulders above the crowd in order to even be CONSIDERED, nevermind actually PURCHASED by consumers at large.
    05-27-15 04:24 PM
  22. thymaster's Avatar
    Haha, people here will never be satisfied with BlackBerry. Whether they fail, grow, downsizes or gets taken over, they will have an argument for everything. They all must be right or else they won't let go of their stubborn opinions. Some people don't see that their pessimistic views are reflected on their real world lifestyle as well. Telling them to get out and enjoy the sunshine is like telling your 35 year old child to move out the house. LOL

    Wow... the doom and gloom posts on here are truly depressing.

    So much so that my Uber excellent Q5 mocks all you nay sayers with every click and every clack! BlackBerry will be just fine.

    No go outside and enjoy the nice weather. Spring is finally here.

    Posted via CB10
    05-27-15 05:48 PM
  23. abwan11's Avatar
    Haha, people here will never be satisfied with BlackBerry. Whether they fail, grow, downsizes or gets taken over, they will have an argument for everything. They all must be right or else they won't let go of their stubborn opinions. Some people don't see that their pessimistic views are reflected on their real world lifestyle as well. Telling them to get out and enjoy the sunshine is like telling your 35 year old child to move out the house. LOL
    Chen has said many times, the hardest part of his job is changing the culture. Crackberry is part of that culture. It's a force field that permeates everything blackberry. We've seen many people leave, some public figures, Kevin included, it's a all star team from the past. It just can't be what everyone wants it to be.



    Posted via CB10
    05-27-15 06:17 PM
  24. anon(8865116)'s Avatar
    Chen has said many times, the hardest part of his job is changing the culture. Crackberry is part of that culture. It's a force field that permeates everything blackberry. We've seen many people leave, some public figures, Kevin included, it's a all star team from the past. It just can't be what everyone wants it to be.



    Posted via CB10
    Here's what I think is going on... Chen is obviously facing some resistance within the company because people just aren't buying the 'software' strategy. I feel like mid level managers are all saying 'if we just had more money, we could make a great phone'. Instead of firing them, he's probably just going to do layoffs based on performance.

    No one said changing the culture had to be done all internally. Chen is probably thinking he can hire a bunch of young blood into the company to dilute the more resistant and burnt out workforce. Not saying that's right or fair but you can't turn around everyone's perspective in a brief amount of time.

    I also think it's key to realize that blackberry announced a share buyback plan meant for employees and a hedge against the debenture dilution right before this layoff announcement. I'm sure those employees who get canned are going to hate him but that's probably why they got someone who is an outsider who can get all the hatred plopped on him and not feel bad because he doesn't even really know the people.

    Now I would imagine morale suffers a lot in these situations but I'll leave the professional in charge to deal with that issue.
    05-27-15 09:52 PM
  25. lnichols's Avatar
    I think a slider Passport, as huge as it is, as "BlackBerry" as it is, as shown in my avatar with the toolbelt, would do more for BlackBerry than a full slab: different, VERY different, a true "alternative" to other devices, and you know, I bet there would be plenty who would consider it, especially those Galaxy Note and Note 2 owners looking for a HUGE device to upgrade to.
    We heard all this when the Q10, the Passport and the Classic launches. Each device was going to bring the BlackBerry people back to BlackBerry. None has. Now it's some version of all three combined..... Sorry don't buy it. Every prediction of PKB BlackBerry devices bringing in the second coming have all been wrong. The people that are going to stay with PKB have, the others have left and found they don't handed them anymore, and others switched to BB10 all touch from PKB and don't want to go back. The only people out there that on BBOS, or who left who will switch back are only going to do so for some BIS alternative and cheap phone because they are either cheap skates or in a hell hole for cell service. I think BlackBerry has all the PKB people they are going to get with the devices they have and the remaining pool out there is too small to cater too with any more niche devices.

    Posted via Z30
    early2bed and Sulaco757 like this.
    05-27-15 11:14 PM
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