05-18-15 02:26 PM
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  1. theRock1975's Avatar
    Microsoft is a very large company with a number of interest.... and their R&D expenditures are huge!

    While BlackBerry is hardly spending anything on R&D at this point..."
    Take a hike Scalemaster. This is 100% FUD.

    Blackberry is the #1 spender of R&D in Canada. Hardly spending anything? Comparing R&D expenditures of a company with 7000 employees to one with 10x more makes no sense.


    Posted via CB10
    02-23-15 08:55 AM
  2. anon1727506's Avatar
    Take a hike Scalemaster. This is 100% FUD.

    Blackberry is the #1 spender of R&D in Canada. Hardly spending anything? Comparing R&D expenditures of a company with 7000 employees to one with 10x more makes no sense.


    Posted via CB10
    You do know that was for back in 2013, so kinda old data..... when they were averaging $350 Million a quarter for R&D. If you look at 2014, R&D spending has nose dived because Chen has had to make huge cuts last year to stop the bleeding. Last quarter R&D spending was down to $154 Million.

    Who would it make sense to compare BlackBerry with - random Canadian companies or BlackBerry's nearest competitor? Which is the real point... BlackBerry isn't in the same league as Microsoft, Apple and Google anymore.

    And I think the issues resulting from the 10.3.1 update attest too the lack of funds for R&D development and testing. I imagine that Chen has most of this R&D focused on IoT... but that is still a pretty small pot.
    02-23-15 09:23 AM
  3. theRock1975's Avatar
    You do know that was for back in 2013, so kinda old data..... when they were averaging $350 Million a quarter for R&D. If you look at 2014, R&D spending has nose dived because Chen has had to make huge cuts last year to stop the bleeding. Last quarter R&D spending was down to $154 Million.

    Who would it make sense to compare BlackBerry with - random Canadian companies or BlackBerry's nearest competitor? Which is the real point... BlackBerry isn't in the same league as Microsoft, Apple and Google anymore.

    And I think the issues resulting from the 10.3.1 update attest too the lack of funds for R&D development and testing. I imagine that Chen has most of this R&D focused on IoT... but that is still a pretty small pot.
    Of course Blackberry's R&D has dropped since 2013. BB10 is built, BES 12 is built, NDK And tools are built, Qnx momentics features are built, cross platform BBM is built,etc.

    The new platforms are huge investments and they're now in enhancement/patch mode. Moving forward, the R&D will likely be in IofT.

    Your comparison with Microsoft is fine but let's be realistic. Microsoft is a goliath. They make video game systems, games, database servers, CRM tools, BizTalk workflow servers, as well as what's they have in common with Blackberry. Putting Blackberry down for lower R&D is irrational and ridiculous.

    The R&D expense of Blackberry is RELATIVELY high compared to Apple, Microsoft, HP. Re-read your original post on this thread to see how incorrect you are.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by theRock1975; 02-23-15 at 10:50 AM.
    02-23-15 10:37 AM
  4. ayandakeith's Avatar
    The comments in that article generally have a negative tone. No one is convinced about this "new Microsoft ". So whe they may have more R&D money, I can't see where the R&D went. Perhaps towards the Surface which is not a bad device.

    Posted via CB10
    02-23-15 10:50 AM
  5. anon1727506's Avatar
    Of course Blackberry's R&D has dropped since 2013. BB10 is built, BES 12 is built, NDK And tools are built, Qnx momentics features are built, cross platform BBM is built,etc.

    The new platforms are huge investments and they're now in enhancement/patch mode. Moving forward, the R&D will likely be in IofT.

    Your comparison with Microsoft is fine but let's be realistic. Microsoft is a goliath. They make video game systems, games, database servers, CRM tools, BizTalk workflow servers, as well as what's they have in common with Blackberry. Putting Blackberry down for lower R&D is irrational and ridiculous.

    The R&D expense of Blackberry is RELATIVELY high compared to Apple, Microsoft, HP. Re-read your original post on this thread to see how incorrect you are.

    Posted via CB10

    Microsoft is a very large company with a number of interest.... and their R&D expenditures are huge!

    While BlackBerry is hardly spending anything on R&D at this point, so no I don't the John Chen is going to suddenly come up with some new "deep learn system" or anything else that would WOW the tech world.

    BBRY Quarterly R&D Expenditures are $154 Million (and falling every quarter), Microsoft on the other hand is spending almost $3 Billion a quarter.

    $154 Million is plenty for a company like BlackBerry to spend on R&D - especially based on their current revenue levels. If you want I'll concede that they have "finished" all these big projects and are able to scale down their R&D spending and that it has nothing to do with Chen having to cut spending.(not sure all the people with issues with 10.3.1 would agree). Besides with products like the Classic and RIO... there isn't much need for R&D is there.

    But the whole point of this thread was the article about Microsoft coming up with some new "deep learning system" and that if they could do it, so could BlackBerry (that old hope). My point is that BlackBerry's ability to do the same is relative to their spending on R&D in comparison to Microsoft. Simply that BlackBerry is out classed, they aren't in the same league as these other guys. So expecting them to come up with a similar "WOW" technology is a little unrealistic. I will say it isn't impossible, but it is highly unlikely.

    And as we both agree Microsoft is a big company and has all types of interest... which sometimes R&D on a totally unrelated product from one field can end up greatly affecting another. Which again goes back to the topic of this thread, and my point against "BlackBerry doing the same" due to their being too small of a company now.

    “Remember that when you think you are seeing giants, they may not be giants at all; perhaps it is you who is the dwarf.”
    02-23-15 12:15 PM
  6. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    do you think bbry stands in number 3? No, WP is there already
    No offense, I think you misread it, or I wasn't clear enough. Sure MS is the third, that's WHY I'm asking whether there is room for a fourth. :-)

    Which would be BlackBerry, of course...

      Qchen, with new keyboard :-)  
    02-25-15 06:36 AM
  7. ADGrant's Avatar
    No offense, I think you misread it, or I wasn't clear enough. Sure MS is the third, that's WHY I'm asking whether there is room for a fourth. :-)

    Which would be BlackBerry, of course...

      Qchen, with new keyboard :-)  
    I am not sure there is room for a third.
    02-25-15 06:42 AM
  8. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    I am not sure there is room for a third.
    An enterprise-centric one...?

    That (w/c)ould be MS, and / or BlackBerry as a pure enterprise player coming in fourth. I could imagine such a scenario for regulated industries.

    Not the last words, though...

      "Oh Classic, you are the fairest here so true. But Passport is a thousand times more powerful than you..." (no offense, Classic is a great device, when it's charged)  
    theRock1975 likes this.
    02-26-15 04:47 AM
  9. Soulstream's Avatar
    I am not sure there is room for a third.
    There is room for a third. While in terms of market share MS hasn't grown in the last year, in terms of devices sold it has. I think right now WP8 is on a good road to profitability and MS has the money to stay in the war for a long time.

    BB has lost a lot of market share in the last year, but also the number of devices sold decreased.

    Also a it seems that for most companies iOS and Android with an MDM solution is good-enough security that they don't need to buy BBs.
    anon1727506 likes this.
    02-26-15 10:15 AM
  10. asherN's Avatar
    Of course Blackberry's R&D has dropped since 2013. BB10 is built, BES 12 is built, NDK And tools are built, Qnx momentics features are built, cross platform BBM is built,etc.
    That kind i=of thinking is what got them in trouble the first time. They need to look at the next platforms.
    02-26-15 12:20 PM
  11. ccbs's Avatar
    Of course Blackberry's R&D has dropped since 2013. BB10 is built, BES 12 is built, NDK And tools are built, Qnx momentics features are built, cross platform BBM is built,etc.

    The new platforms are huge investments and they're now in enhancement/patch mode. Moving forward, the R&D will likely be in IofT.

    Your comparison with Microsoft is fine but let's be realistic. Microsoft is a goliath. They make video game systems, games, database servers, CRM tools, BizTalk workflow servers, as well as what's they have in common with Blackberry. Putting Blackberry down for lower R&D is irrational and ridiculous.

    The R&D expense of Blackberry is RELATIVELY high compared to Apple, Microsoft, HP. Re-read your original post on this thread to see how incorrect you are.

    Posted via CB10
    AAPL R&D expenditure doesn't take a nosedive after 2007 or 2010 after iPhone and iPad announcement. In fact they accelerated the R&D expenditures every years since then. Of course, people hate to talk about Apple, but it is a much narrower focus company that is more comparable to BBRY than Microsoft.
    02-26-15 02:10 PM
  12. rick365's Avatar
    An enterprise-centric one...?

    That (w/c)ould be MS, and / or BlackBerry as a pure enterprise player coming in fourth. I could imagine such a scenario for regulated industries.

    Not the last words, though...

    •   "Oh Classic, you are the fairest here so true. But Passport is a thousand times more powerful than you..." (no offense, Classic is a great device, when it's charged)   •
    since microsoft is trying to merging both enterprise and multimedia stuff, it's hard for bbry to take the 3rd place(I think). But 4th isn't bad position to keep their existence.
    02-26-15 08:41 PM
  13. birdman_38's Avatar
    What Microsoft and BlackBerry have in commons they both do not do not advertise their phone to consumers. Nor do each engage salespeople in an effort to move product.

    Ironically, Microsoft has few carrier contracts with room for growth whereas BlackBerry has lots of carrier contracts and is shrinking.
    02-26-15 09:33 PM
  14. ADGrant's Avatar
    An enterprise-centric one...?

    That (w/c)ould be MS, and / or BlackBerry as a pure enterprise player coming in fourth. I could imagine such a scenario for regulated industries.

    Not the last words, though...

      "Oh Classic, you are the fairest here so true. But Passport is a thousand times more powerful than you..." (no offense, Classic is a great device, when it's charged)  
    Even in the regulated enterprises the trend is to BYOD for cost reasons. The senior guys get to keep their BBs. Everyone else has to turn them in.
    02-27-15 07:20 AM
  15. ADGrant's Avatar
    There is room for a third. While in terms of market share MS hasn't grown in the last year, in terms of devices sold it has. I think right now WP8 is on a good road to profitability and MS has the money to stay in the war for a long time.

    BB has lost a lot of market share in the last year, but also the number of devices sold decreased.

    Also a it seems that for most companies iOS and Android with an MDM solution is good-enough security that they don't need to buy BBs.
    A decline in market share is some times followed by a decline in unit sales. This hasn't happened in Apple's case of course, but they don't compete in the whole market.
    02-27-15 07:23 AM
  16. AluminiumRims's Avatar
    Microsoft is a very large company with a number of interest.... and their R&D expenditures are huge!
    I think the strategy of Microsoft is to saturate the stores with cheap WP devices so that customers cannot avoid them. This means that they are in practice buying themselves into the market by paying distributors as well as undercutting the mobile phone prices.

    Despite the high spending on R&D, it is amazing how bad Windows Phone really is. I previous phone before my Passport was a Nokia 930 and the Windows Phone OS was really horrible which drove me back to BB10. It lacked many basic features and felt really limited. So obviously Microsoft doesn't get a lot of value from their R&D spending. I would rather say that despite Blackberry has a much smaller R&D, they are so much more effective and has implemented more features from the beginning than what Microsoft still haven't implemented after 4 years.

    The question is, is Microsoft back. No I don't think so. If they continue like this, they will not gain market share and we also see that the market share is decreasing for WP as their top was one year ago. Microsoft had 15% with their Windows Mobile system 5 years ago, then they destroyed their own creation to create something worse and they will never come back to the same market share again.
    03-01-15 06:38 AM
  17. birdman_38's Avatar
    The question is, is Microsoft back. No I don't think so. If they continue like this, they will not gain market share and we also see that the market share is decreasing for WP as their top was one year ago. Microsoft had 15% with their Windows Mobile system 5 years ago, then they destroyed their own creation to create something worse and they will never come back to the same market share again.
    I haven't kept in touch with Windows Central due to their "quantity, not quality" editing philosophy. But I do know that Windows Phone 10 could bring a lot of improvements. What Microsoft is really lacking with their mobile strategy is marketing. If they spend a billion dollars on promoting WP 10 and engage salespeople, they have a shot at 10%. Get the app situation right, they could hit 15%.
    JeepBB likes this.
    03-01-15 07:55 AM
  18. AluminiumRims's Avatar
    But I do know that Windows Phone 10 could bring a lot of improvements.
    History shows that Windows 10 will not bring much improvements. WP is now over 4 years old and the OS still lacks basic features that even Symbian has. What is also strange is how Microsoft is totally reluctant to improve basic functionality. It's really simple things that where they fail. Have you seen the WP settings? It's just an unsorted mess with no clear categories. It is obvious that they don't seem to care or think about their creations and they are only interested in marketing and pushing their half finished products. Blackberry has done so much more with a fraction of the R&D spendings.

    Windows 10 is really a backpedal and damage control caused by Windows 8. Windows 8 was a real turkey and they are now trying to regain their credibility.

    Microsoft is really an inverted Blackberry. Microsoft has mediocre software but a very aggressive marketing/sales department while Blackberry has excellent software but mediocre marketing.
    03-01-15 08:17 AM
  19. birdman_38's Avatar
    Microsoft is really an inverted Blackberry. Microsoft has mediocre software but a very aggressive marketing/sales department while Blackberry has excellent software but mediocre marketing.
    I used Windows Phone 7.8 and appreciated its uniqueness. Apparently a lot of the features users wanted in WP 8 were addressed with the WP 8.1 update.

    Microsoft does have better consumer marketing than BlackBerry, but that doesn't take much. However they continue to release devices unsupported by advertising. Nokia finally made a return to Canada with the 830, with no advertising to back it up. Therefore it doesn't move. If they want to make money, they need to spend money on marketing.
    03-01-15 09:09 AM
  20. prithvi64's Avatar
    I consider WP10 is going to be landmark since same os on both platform. I am curious to know whether same outlook 2013 will be available on WP 10 which is at laptop. Of course, office is another landmark.

    Prithvi Z30 10.3.1.2267 thru CB10
    MarsupilamiX and JeepBB like this.
    03-01-15 09:20 AM
  21. ADGrant's Avatar
    I consider WP10 is going to be landmark since same os on both platform. I am curious to know whether same outlook 2013 will be available on WP 10 which is at laptop. Of course, office is another landmark.

    Prithvi Z30 10.3.1.2267 thru CB10
    I don't think it is the same os on both platforms. The name is the same though which is a good marketing move for MS.
    03-27-15 07:49 AM
  22. mnc76's Avatar
    Microsoft is a very large company with a number of interest.... and their R&D expenditures are huge!

    While BlackBerry is hardly spending anything on R&D at this point, so no I don't the John Chen is going to suddenly come up with some new "deep learn system" or anything else that would WOW the tech world.

    BBRY Quarterly R&D Expenditures are $154 Million (and falling every quarter), Microsoft on the other hand is spending almost $3 Billion a quarter.
    BlackBerry spent over 1.3 billion dollars in R&D in 2014, being the second biggest spender in Canada, only behind Bombardier.

    http://www.researchinfosource.com/pd...ers%202014.pdf

    Posted from my awesome White Z30
    04-01-15 05:16 AM
  23. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    BlackBerry spent over 1.3 billion dollars in R&D in 2014, being the second biggest spender in Canada, only behind Bombardier.

    http://www.researchinfosource.com/pd...ers%202014.pdf

    Posted from my awesome White Z30
    Amazing. Putting money back into the economy. Support your local products, Canucks!

    Once they're gone, you'll miss them.

    Ahh, the majority of Blundstones (famous Aussie work boots) apparently aren't made in Australia anymore ... :-(

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blundstone_Footwear



      Passposted while waiting for the Z-lider....  
    04-02-15 03:03 AM
  24. white shirt only's Avatar
    Sometimes, the bigger the company becomes, the most inefficient the company becomes.

    Microsoft has failed numerous times in the mobile area.

    Posted via CB10
    04-07-15 12:15 PM
  25. twiggyrj's Avatar
    Sometimes, the bigger the company becomes, the most inefficient the company becomes.

    Microsoft has failed numerous times in the mobile area.

    Posted via CB10

    But they keep growing and building, they develop a lot more than just Mobile and Desktop operating systems. They have money invested in several different areas such as Hololens.
    04-07-15 03:39 PM
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