11-20-13 08:00 PM
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  1. Cozz4ever's Avatar
    11-19-13 09:41 AM
  2. Cozz4ever's Avatar
    for my post "australia spy agency can spy indonesia government official BB phone" like other poster above said , yes there are some uncertainty with article i used to backup my claim... and yes i'm sorry i should find a better source to backup my post...

    but i still defence my claim , that if they want to spy agencies can tap phone we use...no matter what platform it is.
    I think the only time they spy on bes phones is when blackberry allows them to.





    Posted via CB10
    11-19-13 09:47 AM
  3. rthonpm's Avatar
    Der Spiegel cited NSA documents claiming that since 2009, analysts have been able to see and read text messages sent from BlackBerrys, and to collect and process BIS mails.

    That's as far as the NSA can readily get, BES infiltration requires something a little more advanced: in other words, the NSA would have to have active access to the larger network that the messages are coming from, and even then they are still encrypted.

    Der Spiegel said that to acquire BES data involves a sustained effort on the part of the NSA's Office of Tailored Access Operations, a specialized hacking team based in Forte Meade, Maryland.

    Notice the fact that data is acquired, not the actual content...

    Remember, the entire security profile that BlackBerry touts is based on BES, not BIS.
    clickitykeys likes this.
    11-19-13 10:27 AM
  4. JuiciPatties's Avatar
    I think the title of the thread is very misleading and is probably why you are getting the responses you are and why you feel the need to defend yourself. I think you should have been clear in your title and the thread itself about what specifically you are referring to when you say BB phones are not spy proof.

    I agree that phone calls (over normal cellular networks) are not secure and that is the same with any phone/carrier. However, IP Telephony or VoIP, I would think, would be more secure on a Blackberry than other devices. I could be wrong, but at least that is my understanding.

    In any case, maybe it is just a personal warm and fuzzy feeling that I have when using the Blackberry. Could be the radiation though. lol.
    Camelhmpz likes this.
    11-19-13 10:30 AM
  5. Man@Arms's Avatar
    Nothing and no one is fully secure from everything. Plain and simple. BlackBerry commits and does an excellent job with security, but their also susceptible at some point. Everyone that feels a chubby coming on anytime BlackBerry news like this pops off, can go repent for being such a cretin. Waste.
    11-19-13 10:37 AM
  6. garnok's Avatar
    I think the title of the thread is very misleading and is probably why you are getting the responses you are and why you feel the need to defend yourself. I think you should have been clear in your title and the thread itself about what specifically you are referring to when you say BB phones are not spy proof.

    I agree that phone calls (over normal cellular networks) are not secure and that is the same with any phone/carrier. However, IP Telephony or VoIP, I would think, would be more secure on a Blackberry than other devices. I could be wrong, but at least that is my understanding.

    In any case, maybe it is just a personal warm and fuzzy feeling that I have when using the Blackberry. Could be the radiation though. lol.
    like any debate sometimes you can backup your claim sometimes you are proven wrong...

    today debate..i make a mistake by not giving a solid data...and close to being proven wrong....but there are still chances that a new news comes out to make it more clear...if it's only voice or including BIS services like BBM and E-Mail

    i can not edit the title but i already make some point on first post to inform that my post are still being unproven because lack of data...

    my other point of debate already acknowledge that BB are still the better on term of security, but like any other smartphone if government spy agency wants to they can monitored or tapped every phone available.
    11-19-13 10:38 AM
  7. tfp's Avatar
    So you use a story to back up your argument that if read would have immediately countered your own argument. You then follow that up with another 4 stories to backup your initial argument. Of those 4 stories: the first one, again if read, states that BlackBerry has GIVEN them access to the servers. How does this make it hacked? The second one does not go into any detail about what it hacked from BB other than "access to BB's mail system". The third article states much like the first one, that BlackBerry is granting them access. And finally, the fourth one claims that, yet again, BlackBerry has granted them access.

    How does being granted access correlate to hacking?

    Please, read your own "backup" and understand it.
    11-19-13 11:12 AM
  8. garnok's Avatar
    So you use a story to back up your argument that if read would have immediately countered your own argument. You then follow that up with another 4 stories to backup your initial argument. Of those 4 stories: the first one, again if read, states that BlackBerry has GIVEN them access to the servers. How does this make it hacked? The second one does not go into any detail about what it hacked from BB other than "access to BB's mail system". The third article states much like the first one, that BlackBerry is granting them access. And finally, the fourth one claims that, yet again, BlackBerry has granted them access.

    How does being granted access correlate to hacking?

    Please, read your own "backup" and understand it.
    ok fair point...

    only article number 2 and 4 telling that government already hack BB server. number 1 and 3 BB granted the permission, but it is still on categories BB are not spy proof, because worst thing is they letting government to access their server.

    from i read , google (on public) never open access to their server...until they get hacked by NSA

    but hey i already lost debate because doesnt have solid data on my title discussion...my other source i give will only looks like i trying so hard to defend.making it not important for this discussion...
    11-19-13 11:41 AM
  9. ankush77's Avatar
    bb is safe indeed,but have to see what went wrong technically???
    11-19-13 12:21 PM
  10. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    First link.

    The Canada-based RIM set up its server in Mumbai in February to enable security agencies to intercept data.
    Blackberry had to open it up. Same with other countries that were not going to allow Blackberry to operate until they got the public keys as they couldn't break in.

    Third link.

    U.S. law enforcement officials said they can tap into emails and other conversations made using the device, made by Research in Motion, as long as they have proper court orders.

    RIM's willingness to grant authorities access to the messages of its clients is a hot-button issue.
    They wouldn't have needed to grant access if they could just hack in.
    11-19-13 12:23 PM
  11. kupfernigk's Avatar
    The German Chancellor was not using a BB at the time of the snooping.
    Dr. Merkel is using one now. I wonder why?
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    11-19-13 12:44 PM
  12. Camelhmpz's Avatar
    WGAF !?!?!?!?!?!?!?
    11-19-13 01:03 PM
  13. khehl's Avatar
    last article being reported by snowden. so from his track record, and story he is telling....many of them are being proven it is right..

    but yes in the report also said BES and BIS are more difficult to crack for the first time...but they still can crack it and collect information same as other platform.
    This is exactly what I mean. Those are "words" not actions have be done to prove. They are posting info about iphone/android/wp being hacked but there is not one posting info about blackberry.

    Saying something is one thing but proving is a whole different thing.

    Posted via CB10
    11-19-13 01:28 PM
  14. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    I could be mistaken but I'm pretty sure this article was proven wrong even by the people at blackberry. Could be wrong though.
    Posted via CB10
    Confusion between phone calls, BIS, BES, BB enhanced security devices ...
    mix, rinse and repeat ... don't worry. People who need to know don't make this salad.
    11-19-13 02:17 PM
  15. scribacco's Avatar
    it happened

    australia minister indirectly already confirm it :
    Australia's Tony Abbott refuses to apologize over Indonesia spy scandal - CNN.com

    point is :
    no matter what phone you use , if they want to the government will find a way to tapped your phone
    Yep..it is like a car alarm it only stop the non professional thieves the professional ones will steal your car in few seconds no matter what alarms is on...same for phones, the professional guys will hack it BES or non BES..
    11-19-13 02:21 PM
  16. drewread's Avatar
    Yep..it is like a car alarm it only stop the non professional thieves the professional ones will steal your car in few seconds no matter what alarms is on...same for phones, the professional guys will hack it BES or non BES..
    Yes, that is what tow trucks are for

    #GetWithBB10 Channel @ C000D7228
    11-19-13 02:28 PM
  17. calyth's Avatar
    Security is not a light switch - it's not on or off.

    The only way to be totally secure with a mobile phone is not to use one. It's just how much effort someone has to put into it to get at the data that they want.
    11-19-13 02:35 PM
  18. jpvj's Avatar
    STOOOOOOOP!!!!

    Hi guys.

    BlackBerry is secure is a VERY inaccurate statement. Unfortunately this has been the mantra for many years, but it does not make it more correct.

    BlackBerry is a trademark (tm) used with many different products, and that is why it does not make sense to say "BlackBerry is secure".

    *Parts* of the BlackBerry products are very secure. These are the *enterprise* products - BES and the part of the BB device integrating with a BES server. Anything else (like phone calls, BIS) is (cryptographically) not secure.

    Just read http://www.blackberry.com/btsc/KB03652:

    Security:
    [BIS] Email messages sent between the BlackBerry Internet Service and the BlackBerry Internet Service subscriber's BlackBerry smartphone are not encrypted. When transmitted over the wireless network, the email messages are subject to the existing or available network security model(s).

    [BES]Email messages sent between the BlackBerry smartphone and the BlackBerry Enterprise Server are encrypted using Triple Data Encryption Standard (Triple DES), Advanced Encryption Standard (AES).

    Guess what: BBM is a BIS service and is only "scrambled". So with a little clever reverse engineering of the SRP protocol the content may be easily decrypted (3DES 168-bit keys - common to all devices). Once you have the key it quite simple. In a BES environment you may choose to generate your own company BBM keys, which makes an extra set of keys available for internal communication. Still only 3DES/168bit though.
    PIN encryption keys - Security Note - BlackBerry Messenger - 5.0, 6.0, 7.0

    So basically: BlackBerry handheld devices in conjunction with a BES server is highly secure. Anything else: Not so secure.

    I have only seen a screenshot from the Snowden leak stating it was an BlackBerry email. The header said [BlackBerry - CMIME]. Surprise: CMIME is the service book for BIS email.

    I cannot prove that BES traffic has not been broken. I have no proof that NSA did not pay BlackBerry a huge amount of money to weaken the implementation, but it has never been proved and BlackBerry has a lot of external validation to prove their security levels and correct implementation of code and algorithms.

    BlackBerry has around 120 security experts internally doing hacking, design/code review, analysis and much more. I only met one at BlackBerry world, but he seemed ... ahem ... quite skilled so to speak. They have a very clear vision of security and I trust them to implement the security as claimed.

    Security and encryption is a very complex subject and even though I have a mathematical background and have studied cryptography at the university, I don't feel comfortable talking about cryptography in a mathematical sense. Simply out of respect for the complexity and knowledge needed to master this area.

    So PLEEEEEAAAASE stop this "BlackBerry is secure" and "BlackBerry has been hacked" madness. Hacking something not designed to be secure is hardly hacking or at least not a great achievement.

    Thank you!
    rthonpm likes this.
    11-19-13 03:24 PM
  19. bloodyrek's Avatar
    So basically you're telling us that in 2013, Australia "SPIES" tried to finally learn how to spy a network provider calls.

    Let's have a quick schema:

    ==========Attempt at intercepting BES DATA==========:"FAILED"
    ==========Attempt at intercepting B.I.S DATA==========:"FAILED"
    ==========Attempt at intercepting BBM DATA==========:"FAILED"
    ==========Attempt at intercepting SMS DATA==========:"FAILED"(Network provider related)
    ==========Attempt at intercepting CALL DATA==========:"Unknown"(Network provider related)
    ==========Attempt at giving OP a chance==========:"FAILED"
    ==========Attempt at attempting attempts==========:"MORE FAILED"

    Welcome in 2013 Australia, how's life out there?
    11-19-13 04:52 PM
  20. c_legaspi's Avatar
    You would be naive to think any phone is secured.

    Posted via CB10
    11-19-13 10:06 PM
  21. BB10user07's Avatar
    This is good news for BB...we need everyone spying on everyone...BlackBerry rules in that scenario

    Posted via CB10
    11-19-13 11:25 PM
  22. glennster28's Avatar
    There are so many wrongs with the OP's post.
    11-20-13 12:34 PM
  23. Jonesy1966's Avatar
    If it's BES then I don't believe it for a second.

    If it's BIS then it's a possibility however remote.

    If it's voice, then the Indonesians have no-one else but themselves to blame for being spied on. All phones can have voice intercepted.
    semperfi45 likes this.
    11-20-13 12:37 PM
  24. SnapzGEG's Avatar
    I'm going back to smoke signals...
    11-20-13 05:23 PM
  25. R Field's Avatar
    Misleading title...

    CB10 - Z10 -10.2.1.1055
    11-20-13 08:00 PM
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