10-05-13 09:01 AM
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  1. richardat's Avatar
    not exactly. The way they reported the numbers make it seem like sales dropped 40%
    Quite right. The numbers showed a "small" drop around in sales ~16%
    10-01-13 08:23 PM
  2. codehut's Avatar
    Straight from the BlackBerry MD&A released today - page 6. (download link here)

    "During the second quarter of fiscal 2014, the Company shipped devices to its carrier and distributor partners to support new and continuing product launches and meet expected levels of end customer demand. However, the sell-through levels for BlackBerry 10 smartphones decreased during the second quarter of fiscal 2014 due to the maturing smartphone market and very intense competition"

    And then on page 10:

    "During the second quarter of fiscal 2014, approximately 5.9 million BlackBerry smartphones were sold through to end customers, which included shipments made prior to the second quarter of fiscal 2014 and which reduced the Company’s inventory in channel. Of the devices that sold through to end customers in the second quarter of fiscal 2014, approximately 4.2 million were BlackBerry 7 devices"

    Only 1.7M BB10 devices sold for the entire quarter....I think that puts a pretty solid end to this thread then.
    boi2012 and JeepBB like this.
    10-02-13 03:42 AM
  3. danprown's Avatar
    Thunder, it was a big three. Passed through a Target store (to their credit, they had both Q10 and Z10 working and charged up and seemed to help people on it). If you look at the threads about "future shop" flyers someone posted, the Q10 was $75 and shortly afterwards I saw it at 0. On more expensive plans, of course, but still never seen such a thing. I bet by calling and saying you are switiching and getting to retention, you will get a 0 dollar Q10.

    What Canadian carriers have you seen the Q10 at $0? Because I haven't seen much of any discounting on the Q10 in Canada.
    10-02-13 10:01 AM
  4. koolrosh's Avatar
    Straight from the BlackBerry MD&A released today - page 6. (download link here)

    "During the second quarter of fiscal 2014, the Company shipped devices to its carrier and distributor partners to support new and continuing product launches and meet expected levels of end customer demand. However, the sell-through levels for BlackBerry 10 smartphones decreased during the second quarter of fiscal 2014 due to the maturing smartphone market and very intense competition"

    And then on page 10:

    "During the second quarter of fiscal 2014, approximately 5.9 million BlackBerry smartphones were sold through to end customers, which included shipments made prior to the second quarter of fiscal 2014 and which reduced the Companys inventory in channel. Of the devices that sold through to end customers in the second quarter of fiscal 2014, approximately 4.2 million were BlackBerry 7 devices"

    Only 1.7M BB10 devices sold for the entire quarter....I think that puts a pretty solid end to this thread then.
    Based on their the Q4 2013 report they shipped 1M BB10 devices and sold 3/4 of what was shipped so 750,000 . In Q1 2014 they said they shipped 2.7M devices and in Q2 they said they shipped a negligible amount of BB10 devices, so we know that most of what was sold was what was shipped in the prior quarter. So if you do the math you can get a clear picture of EXACTLY hoe many BB10 was sold each quarter.

    BB10 devices sold per quarter:

    Q4 2013 > 750K
    Q1 2014 > 1.2M
    Q2 2014 > 1.7M


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    10-02-13 02:24 PM
  5. lnichols's Avatar
    If a company can find a market and make a profit, who cares what their market ranking is?
    Developers of apps! Owners of Media Content and the distribution of it! It will become harder and harder for BlackBerry to find a market when other devices can do so much via apps and and the BlackBerry can not. This is how BBOS quickly went from first to last in the wake of the iPhone and then Android.

    Posted via CB10
    10-02-13 09:24 PM
  6. lnichols's Avatar
    Didn't they originally say they were targeting BlackBerry people with BB10? So are BlackBerry people not prosumers or were their hardly any BlackBerry people? Here is the real truth people: BlackBerry people and prosumers were cop outs because BlackBerry knows it can't compete in the smartphone space with what they have at the moment. So they created fictitious segments so they could say something while they worked a deal to go private.

    Posted via CB10
    10-02-13 09:32 PM
  7. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Developers of apps! Owners of Media Content and the distribution of it! It will become harder and harder for BlackBerry to find a market when other devices can do so much via apps and and the BlackBerry can not. This is how BBOS quickly went from first to last in the wake of the iPhone and then Android.

    Posted via CB10
    I agree, but you seem to be thinking of this as some kind of all-or-nothing deal. Agreed, developers won't have a lot of incentive to develop native apps, but what would stop an Android developer from offering a port? Ideal? Of course not, but if they can survive in that mode until they reach 10 million users, there might be a chance.
    10-03-13 04:15 AM
  8. lnichols's Avatar
    I agree, but you seem to be thinking of this as some kind of all-or-nothing deal. Agreed, developers won't have a lot of incentive to develop native apps, but what would stop an Android developer from offering a port? Ideal? Of course not, but if they can survive in that mode until they reach 10 million users, there might be a chance.
    Will the ported apps work 100%? Will they work in the secure container with BES? Will BlackBerry be able to get devs of key business apps to support ported apps? Lit more questions than answers at this point.

    Posted via CB10
    10-03-13 06:37 AM
  9. JasW's Avatar
    there might be a chance
    LOL, that should be your mantra. Or at least your sig. You are always ever optimistic, no matter how bad things look.

    What would stop an Android developer from offering a port? The list of possible answers to that query is, at this point, virtually endless.
    mikeo007 likes this.
    10-03-13 07:15 AM
  10. cgk's Avatar
    Can we go a bit further and work out roughly which is the top Bb10 region and so on?

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
    10-03-13 02:11 PM
  11. sleepngbear's Avatar
    Good so now people here can start pummeling the people in the UK and lay off the United States since we showed growth and they showed declines, right?
    No, we still deserve to be pummeled, just on general principal.
    10-03-13 03:08 PM
  12. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Will the ported apps work 100%? Will they work in the secure container with BES? Will BlackBerry be able to get devs of key business apps to support ported apps? Lit more questions than answers at this point.

    Posted via CB10
    In some cases, sure. Will it be enough? Who knows. Probably not, but if they play this right (even capitalizing on a degree of "outsider" status), there may be an out.

    From the awesome PHYSICAL keyboard of my Q10
    10-04-13 04:38 AM
  13. cgk's Avatar
    In some cases, sure. Will it be enough? Who knows. Probably not, but if they play this right (even capitalizing on a degree of "outsider" status), there may be an out.

    From the awesome PHYSICAL keyboard of my Q10
    People don't *want* outsider status with tech, they want the most connected app-filled experience they can get.
    10-04-13 05:18 AM
  14. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    People don't *want* outsider status with tech, they want the most connected app-filled experience they can get.
    So why aren't 100% of the people using iOS?

    Posted via CB10
    southlander likes this.
    10-04-13 05:49 AM
  15. notfanboy's Avatar
    People don't *want* outsider status with tech, they want the most connected app-filled experience they can get.
    So why aren't 100% of the people using iOS?
    Terrible logic, failed refutation.
    10-04-13 07:08 AM
  16. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Terrible logic, failed refutation.
    The terrible logic comes from the user CGK in that case, because what he said would mean that there is exactly one ecosystem that wins overall and the best one is iOS right now.

    I am just following his premise.
    If you think that the logic is terrible, it has to do with what the other poster said.
    I just used the same logic.

    People don't *want* outsider status with tech, they want the most connected app-filled experience they can get.
    This is talking in very absolute terms, that would mean that there is no place for a second OS/ecosystem.
    It's not the way I see it, but this is pretty much what was said by CGK.

    Therefore my question is absolutely valid.
    The fault lies in the absolute terms, used by the OP.
    He then combines it with an overgeneralisation about tech users, that is just blatantly wrong.

    Going by marketshare numbers, MacOs users are outsiders in the Pc-market, with less apps.
    Why do people want MacBooks then?

    Posted via CB10
    10-04-13 07:25 AM
  17. JasW's Avatar
    The terrible logic comes from the user CGK in that case, because what he said would mean that there is exactly one ecosystem that wins overall and the best one is iOS right now.

    I am just following his premise.
    Well, not really, because you said:

    So why aren't 100% of the people using iOS?
    CGK simply said that people "want the most connected app-filled experience they can get." Technically, yes, perhaps iOS is the "most connected app-filled experience," but not by very much -- Android is right up there with it.

    So that leads us to this:

    Attachment 206502

    Looking at the U.S., iOS and Android combined have a 94% share for the three months ending this past August. It's not 100%, but it certainly high enough to support his argument.

    Look at it this way: I'm sure people want milk on their cereal for breakfast. If you took a poll, I'm sure you'd find that "only" 94%, or some other high figure short of 100%, put milk on their cereal for breakfast. The rest of the tiny minority eat it dry, or maybe something bizarre like mix it with their eggs or put ketchup on it, whatever.
    10-04-13 07:42 AM
  18. notfanboy's Avatar
    The terrible logic comes from the user CGK in that case, because what he said would mean that there is exactly one ecosystem that wins overall and the best one is iOS right now.

    I am just following his premise.
    If you think that the logic is terrible, it has to do with what the other poster said.
    I just used the same logic.



    This is talking in very absolute terms, that would mean that there is no place for a second OS/ecosystem.
    It's not the way I see it, but this is pretty much what was said by CGK.

    Therefore my question is absolutely valid.
    The fault lies in the absolute terms, used by the OP.
    cgk: People don't *want* outsider status with tech, they want the most connected app-filled experience they can get.
    mars: So why aren't 100% of the people using iOS?

    You did not use the same logic as the OP. The OP's statement was not a complete argument, it was a premise which you used to make your argument. You tried to show that based on the premise, an absurd conclusion would be reached. This was unsuccessful because you are making two illogical assumptions. One that OP's reference to "people" equals all people. Two, that if people want something, they must necessarily buy it.

    Let me restate your argument in equivalent terms so you can see how absurd it is.

    OP: People want the cheapest shopping experience they can get.
    mars: So why aren't 100% of the people shopping at WalMart?
    10-04-13 07:46 AM
  19. NYC10065's Avatar
    Year-over-year comparisons would be better.

    Trying to compare April vs August is not very instructive since consumer behavior and market conditions are different for each period. It would be like comparing Oct-Dec (which would include the Christmas sales period) with Jan-Mar (which would include the traditionally 'lean' retail period in Jan-Feb).
    10-04-13 07:48 AM
  20. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Well, not really, because you said:



    CGK simply said that people "want the most connected app-filled experience they can get." Technically, yes, perhaps iOS is the "most connected app-filled experience," but not by very much -- Android is right up there with it.

    So that leads us to this:

    Attachment 206502

    Looking at the U.S., iOS and Android combined have a 94% share for the three months ending this past August. It's not 100%, but it certainly high enough to support his argument.

    Look at it this way: I'm sure people want milk on their cereal for breakfast. If you took a poll, I'm sure you'd find that "only" 94%, or some other high figure short of 100%, put milk on their cereal for breakfast. The rest of the tiny minority eat it dry, or maybe something bizarre like mix it with their eggs or put ketchup on it, whatever.
    I do not disagree with that.
    I disagree with the overgeneralisations combined with the use of absolute terms, in the post of CGK.

    Because he is talking about tech and "people", but completely fails to differentiate.
    The technology sector offers soooooo many different things that CGK's approach was far too simplistic.

    Consumers are buying MacBooks for a certain number of reasons, but in the end, they are willingly choosing the less popular platform, in terms of marketshare and programs avalaible.
    This instantly contradicts the simplistic approach CGK had.

    That doesn't mean in any way, that I think consumers (or what ever BlackBerry calls a prosumer) are willing to do that with a BlackBerry smartphone right now, or in the forseeable future.
    The way the post was written, was just far to unspecific, simplistic and, if taken literally, wrong.

    The way you said it, changes that, because you are differentiating more (but still not enough).
    You have at least established, that there are 2 big choices, that may offer a similar quality in their ecosystem, but are still different.

    cgk: People don't *want* outsider status with tech, they want the most connected app-filled experience they can get.
    mars: So why aren't 100% of the people using iOS?

    You did not use the same logic as the OP. The OP's statement was not a complete argument, it was a premise which you used to make your argument. You tried to show that based on the premise, an absurd conclusion would be reached. This was unsuccessful because you are making two illogical assumptions. One that OP's reference to "people" equals all people. Two, that if people want something, they must necessarily buy it.

    Let me restate your argument in equivalent terms so you can see how absurd it is.

    OP: People want the cheapest shopping experience they can get.
    mars: So why aren't 100% of the people shopping at WalMart?
    The premise from the OP was, that "people want x and y in the tech sector".

    The problem now is, that CGK talked about tech in general, instead of only smartphones, and he didn't specify what countable amount "people" are representing.

    Another interesting thing is, that you actually made my point with your post.
    What CGK said, is the equivalent of your Walmart analogy. There is no difference.

    And that is why it's so absurd.
    When you say "people want the cheapest shopping experience", you, just like CGK, are making the same mistake in your premise.
    Who are "people"?
    And if they would want the cheapest shopping experience, why is the luxury good sector so incredibly successful?

    The inexistence of differentiation, combined with the use of absolute terms, overgeneralisations and a lack of a countable definition of "people", make the whole reasoning absurd.

    All of that doesn't mean that BlackBerry will be successful.
    It just means that what CGK wanted to say, was worded extremely poorly.
    If he would have said it like the user JASW, I probably wouldn't even have commented, because I agree with what he said.

    The smartphone market as an aggregate, wants things that BlackBerry can't provide right now.
    It doesn't mean, that "people" aren't willing to specifically buy "tech", that would give them an "outsider status" in another branch of the tech sector.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by MarsupilamiX; 10-04-13 at 08:49 AM.
    10-04-13 08:29 AM
  21. rodan01's Avatar
    Based on their the Q4 2013 report they shipped 1M BB10 devices and sold 3/4 of what was shipped so 750,000 . In Q1 2014 they said they shipped 2.7M devices and in Q2 they said they shipped a negligible amount of BB10 devices, so we know that most of what was sold was what was shipped in the prior quarter. So if you do the math you can get a clear picture of EXACTLY hoe many BB10 was sold each quarter.

    BB10 devices sold per quarter:

    Q4 2013 > 750K
    Q1 2014 > 1.2M
    Q2 2014 > 1.7M


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    I agree with Q4 and Q2, but you can't be sure about Q1 > 1.2M. Part of the 3.7m shipped can be in the channel.
    10-04-13 08:54 AM
  22. notfanboy's Avatar
    It just means that what CGK wanted to say, was worded extremely poorly.
    If he would have said it like the user JASW, I probably wouldn't even have commented, because I agree with what he said.
    No. cgk simply stated a premise. "cgk: People don't *want* outsider status with tech, they want the most connected app-filled experience they can get." Nowhere in this statement is implied a connection to sales. There is nothing wrong about that, it's like saying "people want cars that are reliable and attractive".

    It was you who tried make the connection to sales, and it was you who tried to make the premise lead to an absurd argument.
    10-04-13 09:28 AM
  23. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    No. cgk simply stated a premise. "cgk: People don't *want* outsider status with tech, they want the most connected app-filled experience they can get." Nowhere in this statement is implied a connection to sales. There is nothing wrong about that, it's like saying "people want cars that are reliable and attractive".

    It was you who tried make the connection to sales, and it was you who tried to make the premise lead to an absurd argument.
    No, the premise was bad from the beginning, it's neither right, nor formulated correctly (which doesn't mean that it's entirely wrong though).

    I also wasn't the one who tried to establish a connection with sales, this was CGK as well.
    Look at the post he replied to.
    The connection already was existant and gets further accentuated through the part CGK highlighted, in the quote of his reply.

    I don't know why you are arguing, when the semantics are clearly not on your side of the argument.
    CGK replied to a post, that wanted to show how BlackBerry can capitalise on an outsider status, to sell phones.

    Since he replied to that and also highlighted a certain part of that reply, the connection to sales, already was existant.
    If you missed that, you may want to re-read on what you are commenting.

    In any case, agree with me, or disagree, I don't really care about that.
    It's hard to have any meaningful debate, if you don't really understand what you read.
    But before trying to give me a lesson about semantics, you may want to understand them yourself.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by MarsupilamiX; 10-04-13 at 10:04 AM.
    10-04-13 09:50 AM
  24. notfanboy's Avatar
    I don't know why you are arguing, when the semantics are clearly not on your side of the argument.
    I was simply reacting to what I see as poor reasoning. This is just Logic 101.
    10-04-13 12:00 PM
  25. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    People don't *want* outsider status with tech, they want the most connected app-filled experience they can get.
    Tell that to all the people who run Ubuntu desktops (and are salivating over Ubuntu Mobile), or who drive Smart cars, or make any numbers of buying decisions that don't make rational sense.

    Apple themselves were happy to play up their "outsider" status for decades.

    From the awesome PHYSICAL keyboard of my Q10
    10-04-13 03:17 PM
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