03-07-15 09:35 PM
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  1. heading4tomorrow's Avatar
    Only positive thing I hope that comes out of this is cheaper blackberry phones, especially AT&T selling Passport for like $50 on contract or something because they think nobody will buy it.. I just hope they don't cancel it after all that investment and modification of the device.
    01-23-15 12:37 AM
  2. eyesopen1111's Avatar
    I have to agree with Chen that the current system favors iOS and Android greatly, but especially iOS. At least here in the States, it's like the internet is built for iOS and the majority of content providers cater to that OS. The third party apps that we have with BB10 vs the big time apps being developed by top developers is a very big quality difference. There's no good solution to this problem because the smaller OS's don't have the profit potential that the majors have. Who should eat those costs?
    01-23-15 12:38 AM
  3. jmr1015's Avatar
    "The system" favors iOS and Android? What system? Developers put their time and monetary investments where they will most likely yield the best results and return on their investment. Web sites code their content to be easily viewed by the devices most likely to visit their sites. At this stage in the game, and with BlackBerry's current position in the smartphone market, neither group (developers of apps and websites) will put a lot of time, effort, manpower, or money, towards anything BlackBerry-specific.
    anon1727506 likes this.
    01-23-15 12:52 AM
  4. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    I have to agree with Chen that the current system favors iOS and Android greatly, but especially iOS. At least here in the States, it's like the internet is built for iOS and the majority of content providers cater to that OS. The third party apps that we have with BB10 vs the big time apps being developed by top developers is a very big quality difference. There's no good solution to this problem because the smaller OS's don't have the profit potential that the majors have. Who should eat those costs?
    It's a problem. BlackBerry created this mess for itself, and the market did what it tends to do: punished slow reactions.

    But I think we can all agree that choice is good. We are all better served with several mobile options.

    So what does this armchair CEO think BB needs to do specifically with regards to the app situation? Shore up its core in-house apps, spruce up its cross-platform offerings, and probably pay app bounties on a small batch of FANTASTIC business utilities. Rebuild from enterprise.

    Also, pick a connected device company and partner. Stop talking about IOT, and do it.

    Did someone say set top box? It's a gamble, but hey...

    If I had my way, I'd be looking to get rid of the runtime. Go the hard way and be native. Batten down the hatches and weather the storm. I know most might disagree, but I wouldn't trust Google to be as lenient as they are forever.

    Easy for me to pick holes, and I readily admit I don't have all the answers.

    I do believe solving the ecosystem conundrum is the key to BBRY's revival.
    01-23-15 12:57 AM
  5. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    "The system" favors iOS and Android? What system? Developers put their time and monetary investments where they will most likely yield the best results and return on their investment. Web sites code their content to be easily viewed by the devices most likely to visit their sites. At this stage in the game, and with BlackBerry's current position in the smartphone market, neither group (developers of apps and websites) will put a lot of time, effort, manpower, or money, towards anything BlackBerry-specific.
    Agreed.

    And the harsh truth is that there was a time BBRY had the lead in the mobile app wars.

    Apple was dead last when iOS debuted.
    01-23-15 01:03 AM
  6. tchocky77's Avatar
    Agreed.

    And the harsh truth is that there was a time BBRY had the lead in the mobile app wars.

    Apple was dead last when iOS debuted.

    Thirded.

    Whatever "advantage" Apple enjoys has been hard-won. When the iPhone debuted, Blackberry was king of the mountain and Apple had NO reason to think they would become the market leader. I, personally, would not have bet that they would convince the whole world that typing on GLASS is better than a keyboard.

    But here we are. Apple took HUGE chances and they paid off.
    imz, marty314, TGR1 and 2 others like this.
    01-23-15 01:30 AM
  7. TheBirdDog's Avatar
    Anyone criticizing Chen should read the actual blog again: http://blogs.blackberry.com/2015/01/...et-neutrality/

    Nowhere does he say that they need to mandate this for BlackBerry's sake. His point is that if we are going to have such a thing as 'Net Neutrality' then apps need to be considered a part of the picture.

    He doesn't insist that others should be like BlackBerry because they made BBM available so everyone else has to do the same thing. He actually says that part of BlackBerry's successful turnaround has been because of their decision to do this. He's pointing out that there is a light and it can actually be BETTER for developers if there is no discrimination from app providers.

    What if you were only able to play movies from Sony Pictures on a Bluray player made by Sony? It would be ridiculous and the app situation is equally as unbalanced. Their products need to be available to everyone and not discriminate based on what OS they have.

    Posted via my BlackBerry Passport
    annon91221, cvendra, 3MIKE and 2 others like this.
    01-23-15 01:33 AM
  8. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Unfortunately, the paragraph quoted has nothing to do with net neutrality. It has to do with market access and profit. If I want to sell my product, I'm going for the bigger markets = bigger returns. If I make a good enough return, I wouldn't even think about tiny markets.

    Posted via CB10
    Yes and ... no.
    As we can see with windows 10, future seems to rely on online services V.S "apps".
    In short, as of today, embrasing a shared fundation (ok, that's HTML5) woul help to resolve many problems we can see today (performance, unified experience, device storage, security, software piracy ...). Don't jump on it; I don't mean every app should be 100% HTML5; this old debate is pointless as all modern OSes can (should be able to) handle a mix of "universal base" (HTML5) and native code, aimed to performance for specific features and that could be used (or not, in failover mode) for devices/Oses that benefit of it. Also, HTML5 doesn't mean that your app has to be connected, it can of course be stored and used offline (incl database, i.e "dynamic" pages).
    Steve Jobs had a similar approach in the 2010's (when he kicked Flash out) ... but that was S.J, right ...

    This article is pretty much the logic follow-up of this one : The Surprising Winner of the HTML5 Versus Native Apps War | Inside BlackBerry

    I'm pretty sure that if this article wasn't issued by BlackBerry but a random "expert", then we would also have heard bells and whistles ... But today, the exact same that were swooning before Steve (yes BGR, I'm pointing at you) are now spitting towards Waterloo ...mostly because it's Waterloo.
    01-23-15 03:43 AM
  9. MC_A_DOT's Avatar
    After reading through the thread I feel so sorry that the world is heading towards something where Apple and Google controls their life without much of us realizing it . It doesn't seem far when they decide what you eat.

    Passport, SQW 100-1, 10.3.0.1154
    erm what?

    I think you need to lay off the tinfoil bruh.
    marty314, TGR1, MikeX74 and 3 others like this.
    01-23-15 04:16 AM
  10. red_devil_fan_1999's Avatar
    I would say that the Passport is easily the most unique and innovative phone on the market. You can pick it out 40 yards away. All those others are just another slab of glass in a sea of slabs of glass.
    Once again, just because something is different from mainstream doesn't make it innovative. If i made a triangular shaped tablet with the specs of let's say the nexus 7, and the same os, is it innovative, or just different?
    01-23-15 04:42 AM
  11. ADGrant's Avatar
    Yes and ... no.
    As we can see with windows 10, future seems to rely on online services V.S "apps".
    In short, as of today, embrasing a shared fundation (ok, that's HTML5) woul help to resolve many problems we can see today (performance, unified experience, device storage, security, software piracy ...). Don't jump on it; I don't mean every app should be 100% HTML5; this old debate is pointless as all modern OSes can (should be able to) handle a mix of "universal base" (HTML5) and native code, aimed to performance for specific features and that could be used (or not, in failover mode) for devices/Oses that benefit of it. Also, HTML5 doesn't mean that your app has to be connected, it can of course be stored and used offline (incl database, i.e "dynamic" pages).
    Steve Jobs had a similar approach in the 2010's (when he kicked Flash out) ... but that was S.J, right ...

    This article is pretty much the logic follow-up of this one : The Surprising Winner of the HTML5 Versus Native Apps War | Inside BlackBerry

    I'm pretty sure that if this article wasn't issued by BlackBerry but a random "expert", then we would also have heard bells and whistles ... But today, the exact same that were swooning before Steve (yes BGR, I'm pointing at you) are now spitting towards Waterloo ...mostly because it's Waterloo.
    I am guessing you are not an app developer. The reaction from app developers to Chen's idea has been extremely negative. If you were a developer you would know that HTML5 has cross platform issues of its own.

    Anyone who wants to spit at Waterloo has been given plenty of ammunition by Chen and his predecessors. This idea has to be the stupidest thing ever to come from Waterloo though.
    01-23-15 07:06 AM
  12. anon3923428's Avatar
    Apps Schmapps.....is that really your R1?
    I have an R1 but not that one. That particular bike is so sweet but it's a show bike. Nothing more

    Posted via CB10
    Attachment 329107
    01-23-15 07:15 AM
  13. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    I think this is something he probably should have kept to himself though it does two things

    1. Gives the armchair CEOs in the forum another chance to jump up and down and tell him how he ought to go about doing his job

    2. Gives the "everything is awful, in every way, all the time, in every circumstance, no matter what" crowd (and their passive aggressive "like everything terrible" followers) a good set of discussion fodder.

    If that was his objective, he succeeded.
    01-23-15 07:27 AM
  14. anon3923428's Avatar
    I think this is something he probably should have kept to himself though it does two things

    1. Gives the armchair CEOs in the forum another chance to jump up and down and tell him how he ought to go about doing his job

    2. Gives the "everything is awful, in every way, all the time, in every circumstance, no matter what" crowd (and their passive aggressive "like everything terrible" followers) a good set of discussion fodder.

    If that was his objective, he succeeded.
    I think he said it right but it's being taken the wrong way. Take netflix for example. There is no app for BlackBerry and I know that the android app works just fine on BlackBerry devices but it's not built for BlackBerry. In the particular example, netflix can allow the BlackBerry browser to just stream the video right from the browser like Amazon does or did once ago. Netflix purposely blocks the BlackBerry browser from streaming. Now why is that? Netflix could allow the browser but they choose not to. Examples like these is what Chen is referring to.

    Also, Chen was just using apple as an example but of course, the media and everyone else has taken it to a level trying to make this man look incompetent.

    Posted via CB10
    01-23-15 07:31 AM
  15. anon3923428's Avatar
    Some of you may remember that there was a time when you could go buy a DVD in the store to watch a movie and it did not matter what DVD player you were sporting, the DVD would play on your TV. Now, if you buy a movie, it must be watched using what ever the company that sold it allows for it to be played on. How does that help the consumer? What if I switched from one manufacturer for the other? How will I be able to play my movie? That is what Chen is trying to say. These companies have gotten away from that and making things proprietary. This doesn't help us the consumer, it hurts us. That's what Chen is referring to here, nothing more.

    Posted via CB10
    Superfly_FR and 3MIKE like this.
    01-23-15 07:41 AM
  16. MmmHmm's Avatar
    Anyone criticizing Chen should read the actual blog again: Net Neutrality: No on Reclassification, Yes on Adding Content & App Providers | Inside BlackBerry

    Nowhere does he say that they need to mandate this for BlackBerry's sake. His point is that if we are going to have such a thing as 'Net Neutrality' then apps need to be considered a part of the picture.

    He doesn't insist that others should be like BlackBerry because they made BBM available so everyone else has to do the same thing. He actually says that part of BlackBerry's successful turnaround has been because of their decision to do this. He's pointing out that there is a light and it can actually be BETTER for developers if there is no discrimination from app providers.

    What if you were only able to play movies from Sony Pictures on a Bluray player made by Sony? It would be ridiculous and the app situation is equally as unbalanced. Their products need to be available to everyone and not discriminate based on what OS they have.

    Posted via my BlackBerry Passport
    I think you should read it again. He is claiming that this should be mandated by law. Contrary to your assertion, he is most certainly insisting "that others should be like BlackBerry because they made BBM available so everyone else has to do the same thing." True, he doesn't explicitly state that it should be mandated "for BlackBerry's sake", but he specifically complains about how BlackBerry customers are being discriminated against by Netflix, and come on, of course this request is made for BlackBerry's sake. Chen specifically says "Therefore, neutrality must be mandated at the application and content layer if we truly want a free, open and non-discriminatory internet. All wireless broadband customers must have the ability to access any lawful applications and content they choose, and applications/content providers must be prohibited from discriminating based on the customers mobile operating system."

    Read his words: "must be mandated", "must be prohibited"...

    Importantly, this is not just a random blog post. The blog post states, "This blog is adapted from a letter sent Wednesday, January 21st, 2015, to the Chairman of the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation, John Thune, the Chairman of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce, Fred Upton, and Ranking Committee Members, U.S. Senator Bill Nelson, and U.S. Representative Frank Pallone Jr."

    Writing a letter like that to lawmakers is a specific request that the government pass a law that "neutrality must be mandated at the application and content layer". It is an absurd, self serving request that has no chance of becoming law, and has nothing to do with net neutrality, which he has attempted to link it to.

    EDIT: Also, as to your example of bluray players: true, there are industry-developed standards for bluray movies, but should all media be forced by law to work this way? A bluray disc will work in any manufacturer's player, but an Xbox disc will not work in a Sony Playstation, and some video game titles are exclusive to one or the other. Should the law step in and force video games to operate in the same manner as movies? Not in my opinion. How far would you extend this? Does BlackBerry need to release BBM for Tizen? Does Apple now need to release iMovie for Linux?
    Last edited by MmmHmm; 01-23-15 at 08:04 AM.
    01-23-15 07:44 AM
  17. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    I think he said it right but it's being taken the wrong way. Take netflix for example. There is no app for BlackBerry and I know that the android app works just fine on BlackBerry devices but it's not built for BlackBerry. In the particular example, netflix can allow the BlackBerry browser to just stream the video right from the browser like Amazon does or did once ago. Netflix purposely blocks the BlackBerry browser from streaming. Now why is that? Netflix could allow the browser but they choose not to. Examples like these is what Chen is referring to.

    Also, Chen was just using apple as an example but of course, the media and everyone else has taken it to a level trying to make this man look incompetent.

    Posted via CB10
    Netflix doesn't stream on Android or iOS or WP8 browsers. How is BlackBerry being singled out?

    The discrimination point was exceptionally silly, and there really is no defending it.
    01-23-15 07:47 AM
  18. ADGrant's Avatar

    Also, Chen was just using apple as an example but of course, the media and everyone else has taken it to a level trying to make this man look incompetent.

    Posted via CB10
    They don't need to try very hard.
    Cynycl, TGR1, jmr1015 and 1 others like this.
    01-23-15 07:48 AM
  19. early2bed's Avatar
    Some of you may remember that there was a time when you could go buy a DVD in the store to watch a movie and it did not matter what DVD player you were sporting, the DVD would play on your TV.
    Fortunately, the US Government (or was it the EU?) established the standard protocol for DVDs and, subsequently, for Blue-Ray so we can thank them for the system we have today. There' s simply no way that technology companies could ever establish standards like this on their own. I wish that the FCC would hurry up and decide what the proper format for 4K video media is so that I can watch only legally-licensed content on my TV on the properly licensed device in the correct region, of course. We need to regulate all digital content like cable TV - inexpensive and conveniently locked-down for everyone.

    [/sarcasm]
    Last edited by early2bed; 01-23-15 at 08:08 AM.
    01-23-15 07:58 AM
  20. z10Jobe's Avatar
    Once again, just because something is different from mainstream doesn't make it innovative. If i made a triangular shaped tablet with the specs of let's say the nexus 7, and the same os, is it innovative, or just different?
    Ummm...capacitive keyboard is pretty f'ing innovative. But go ahead and make said triangular tablet, but not sure how a triangle by itself is innovative. The rest of the market (apart from the classic), including the z30 I am currently typing on, is just another slab of glass.

    Posted via CB10
    01-23-15 08:05 AM
  21. z10Jobe's Avatar
    I am guessing you are not an app developer. The reaction from app developers to Chen's idea has been extremely negative. If you were a developer you would know that HTML5 has cross platform issues of its own.

    Anyone who wants to spit at Waterloo has been given plenty of ammunition by Chen and his predecessors. This idea has to be the stupidest thing ever to come from Waterloo though.
    Nope. The stupidest thing was spending all their time and energy trying to buy an NHL hockey team and move it near Waterloo against the wishes of the NHL. Meanwhile, the iPhone was eating their lunch.

    Posted via CB10
    01-23-15 08:11 AM
  22. MmmHmm's Avatar
    Fortunately, the US Government (or was it the EU?) established the standard protocol for DVDs and, subsequently, for Blue-Ray so we can thank them for the system we have today. There' s simply no way that technology companies could ever establish standards like this on their own. I wish that the FCC would hurry up and decide what the proper format for 4K video is so that I can watch only legally-licensed content on my TV on the properly licensed device in the correct region, of course. We need to regulate all digital content like cable TV - inexpensive and conveniently locked-down for everyone.

    [/sarcasm]
    Ummm. You are absolutely 100% incorrect about how DVD and Blu-ray standards came about. "There's simply no way that technology companies could ever establish standards like this on their own." LOL. Just look up the history of DVD and Blu-ray on Wikipedia.

    EDIT: I didn't see the sarcasm at first. Ugh. My apologies. It's gonna be one of those days.
    01-23-15 08:12 AM
  23. anon1727506's Avatar
    Fortunately, the US Government (or was it the EU?) established the standard protocol for DVDs and, subsequently, for Blue-Ray so we can thank them for the system we have today. There' s simply no way that technology companies could ever establish standards like this on their own. I wish that the FCC would hurry up and decide what the proper format for 4K video is so that I can watch only legally-licensed content on my TV on the properly licensed device in the correct region, of course. We need to regulate all digital content like cable TV - inexpensive and conveniently locked-down for everyone.

    [/sarcasm]
    Agree... Government Regulated usually ends up costing consumers in both options and pricing.

    Does Apple and Google have an advantage... yes! But it wasn't given to them, they created it (and BlackBerry stood around and just watched it happen).

    I said it earlier... if BlackBerry want open and neutral, they should have used Android as the "base" of their new OS. But BlackBerry wanted a CLOSED PLATFORM.... they just didn't understand what was involved in creating one at this point it time. Think they really taught, hey if we build it.... developers will come.

    They opened BBM up for profits sake, not for some warm and fuzzy need to make people happy. And a Windows version got the same love from BlackBerry due to it's low user base as BlackBerry has gotten from other developers. Yeah they did eventually make one, but it wasn't a priority.

    Chen has had his year.... now he is starting to look more and more like Thor.
    jmr1015 and MikeX74 like this.
    01-23-15 08:13 AM
  24. early2bed's Avatar
    Ummm. You are absolutely 100% incorrect about how DVD and Blu-ray standards came about. "There's simply no way that technology companies could ever establish standards like this on their own." LOL. Just look up the history of DVD and Blu-ray on Wikipedia.
    Really? My bad, I guess. I thought that DVD manufacturers were all making devices that ran their own format and that the government stepped in on the sage advice of John Chen and mandated that all DVD boxes contain 4 different copies of each movie in all of the major formats. Isn't that how the DVD neutrality problem got fixed? At least it's better than the days when video tapes the size of dinner plates because they were VHS on one end and Beta on the other.

    [/sarcasm]
    01-23-15 08:17 AM
  25. ADGrant's Avatar
    Nope. The stupidest thing was spending all their time and energy trying to buy an NHL hockey team and move it near Waterloo against the wishes of the NHL. Meanwhile, the iPhone was eating their lunch.

    Posted via CB10
    I disagree, this is far dumber than that. The iPhone are everyone's lunch. All the smartphone platforms popular when it was launched are gone now. The iPhone success was because Apple had a different vision which caught on.

    This latest Chen move is going to reduce developer support for his platform, partly because developers are angry about it but mostly because it highlights that BB10 is not a viable platform and the CEO knows it.
    01-23-15 08:55 AM
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