03-07-15 08:35 PM
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  1. annon91221's Avatar
    With blackberry begging the government to basically force developers to use a "code once so it works everywhere" model reeks of desperation.

    Blackberry needs to innovate to get customers back, not beg the government to intervene

    Posted via CB10
    Blackberry didn't beg government to force developers to code for BlackBerry.. BlackBerry is saying what they are seeing.. Basically they are telling government that not aren't fooling anyone(except with people with your kina thinking) when they say that they are legislating internet to be a utility like water and electricity for the sake of consumers and not to favor certain tech giants.
    Apps are to internet what taps and voltage are for water and electricity. Unless you have standard sizes for all taps or appliances to be hooked on to the utility, it is a lost cause to think that you have ensured free access to the resource for everyone. Just imagine every home builder to have their own standard for electrical voltage, recepticle sizes and water pipe sizes. Not a pretty picture, is it?
    Access to internet is no different.

    Btw... one thing that boggles my mind is that how is this made into a developer issue.. A developer should only be concerned with providing his service to consumer, not what platform his service should be allowed on. That simply should not be any of his/her business. I mean if I want to put a BeoLab 20 in my 700 sq feet basement rental suite, why the f' should B&O have the right to tell me I can't?

    Posted via CB10
    02-09-15 10:23 PM
  2. ADGrant's Avatar
    Blackberry didn't beg government to force developers to code for BlackBerry.. BlackBerry is saying what they are seeing.. Basically they are telling government that not aren't fooling anyone(except with people with your kina thinking) when they say that they are legislating internet to be a utility like water and electricity for the sake of consumers and not to favor certain tech giants.
    Apps are to internet what taps and voltage are for water and electricity. Unless you have standard sizes for all taps or appliances to be hooked on to the utility, it is a lost cause to think that you have ensured free access to the resource for everyone. Just imagine every home builder to have their own standard for electrical voltage, recepticle sizes and water pipe sizes. Not a pretty picture, is it?
    Access to internet is no different.

    Btw... one thing that boggles my mind is that how is this made into a developer issue.. A developer should only be concerned with providing his service to consumer, not what platform his service should be allowed on. That simply should not be any of his/her business. I mean if I want to put a BeoLab 20 in my 700 sq feet basement rental suite, why the f' should B&O have the right to tell me I can't?

    Posted via CB10
    What boggles my mind is anyone thinking that "app neutrality" is not a developer issue.
    Cynycl and jmr1015 like this.
    02-09-15 10:28 PM
  3. annon91221's Avatar
    What boggles my mind is anyone thinking that "app neutrality" is not a developer issue.

    John Chen's thoughts on Net Neutrality-quote-idiot.jpg

    Posted via CB10
    MikeX74 likes this.
    02-09-15 10:31 PM
  4. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    Blackberry didn't beg government to force developers to code for BlackBerry.. BlackBerry is saying what they are seeing.. Basically they are telling government that not aren't fooling anyone(except with people with your kina thinking) when they say that they are legislating internet to be a utility like water and electricity for the sake of consumers and not to favor certain tech giants.
    Apps are to internet what taps and voltage are for water and electricity. Unless you have standard sizes for all taps or appliances to be hooked on to the utility, it is a lost cause to think that you have ensured free access to the resource for everyone. Just imagine every home builder to have their own standard for electrical voltage, recepticle sizes and water pipe sizes. Not a pretty picture, is it?
    Access to internet is no different.

    Btw... one thing that boggles my mind is that how is this made into a developer issue.. A developer should only be concerned with providing his service to consumer, not what platform his service should be allowed on. That simply should not be any of his/her business. I mean if I want to put a BeoLab 20 in my 700 sq feet basement rental suite, why the f' should B&O have the right to tell me I can't?

    Posted via CB10
    Do you actually think the success of standard taps and voltage in your home is due to some sort of government regulation?

    If so... wow... just wow... we're far worse off than I thought...

    Excuse me... but those are industry standards... had nuthin to do with government intervention.

    Posted via CB10
    Cynycl likes this.
    02-09-15 10:32 PM
  5. ADGrant's Avatar
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Quote for an idiot.jpg 
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ID:	332761

    Posted via CB10
    thanks for the advice. I will stop arguing with you now.
    johnny_bravo72 likes this.
    02-09-15 10:33 PM
  6. annon91221's Avatar
    Do you actually think the success of standard taps and voltage in your home is due to some sort of government regulation?

    If so... wow... just wow... we're far worse off than I thought...

    Excuse me... but those are industry standards... had nuthin to do with government intervention.

    Posted via CB10
    Those are industry standards because pioneers of those industries weren't monopolistic asses like Steve Jobs and such..

    Posted via CB10
    02-09-15 10:40 PM
  7. Soulstream's Avatar
    Btw... one thing that boggles my mind is that how is this made into a developer issue.. A developer should only be concerned with providing his service to consumer, not what platform his service should be allowed on. That simply should not be any of his/her business. I mean if I want to put a BeoLab 20 in my 700 sq feet basement rental suite, why the f' should B&O have the right to tell me I can't?

    Posted via CB10
    I don't know if they can tell you you can't, but sure as hell aren't going to give you support for it.

    People seem to think that we, developers, owe BB the apps. No we don't. People should start trying to learn how to code and develop for multiple platforms and then tell us how easy it would be to bring it to BB10.
    02-10-15 02:55 AM
  8. MmmHmm's Avatar
    Those are industry standards because pioneers of those industries weren't monopolistic asses like Steve Jobs and such..

    Posted via CB10
    Apple does not have a monopoly, particularly in the mobile OS industry. It never has.

    BTW, I'm not a developer, but it is my understanding that BB10 is closed source and BB10 apps are not coded 100% in html 5. Doesn't BB10 have its own proprietary SDK put out by BlackBerry with cascades? I fail to see how BlackBerry's current app system is any more open than Apple's, other than having an Android runtime (but that is using Google's open source product - it is not BlackBerry putting out an open source product).
    Cynycl, TGR1, ADGrant and 1 others like this.
    02-10-15 05:14 AM
  9. philiopoilopoli's Avatar
    I think it's crap. Why should developers have to code for every platform with very little return. There are lots of under 1% market share OS: firefoxOS, jolla, tizen(in the future). Who will pay developers for developing for such platforms?

    And if I myself develop a phones OS with 1 user (me), could I force app developers to build every app for just my phone?
    What Chen is getting at is that developers should be able to code in something more platform agnostic like html5. You base your app on html5 and then hang bb10, iOS, etc curtains in the windows. Chen isn't suggesting that all apps should have natively coded versions for every platform, he is suggesting that the apps be developed with a more universal, platform neutral approach.

    Posted via CB10
    02-10-15 05:32 AM
  10. Soulstream's Avatar
    What Chen is getting at is that developers should be able to code in something more platform agnostic like html5. You base your app on html5 and then hang bb10, iOS, etc curtains in the windows. Chen isn't suggesting that all apps should have natively coded versions for every platform, he is suggesting that the apps be developed with a more universal, platform neutral approach.

    Posted via CB10
    We as developers already can do that. iOS, Android, WP8 and BB10 all support HTML5 apps. While HTML5 is popular for some kind of apps, other not so much. It is clear that out of their own free will, devs don't care so much about supporting WP8 and BB10 even with HTML5 available everywhere.
    jmr1015 and ADGrant like this.
    02-10-15 05:43 AM
  11. SeeBeeEss's Avatar
    Can't wait to read the comments when Chen has a thought on world peace...
    02-10-15 05:54 AM
  12. 3MIKE's Avatar
    Personally I don't need the apps on other phones, I have all that I need with BlackBerry. Their are always *some that want more... **
    It's the security that's a priority for me.*

    *By the way we all know what happened in 2008 with non regulated financial institutions.*
    02-10-15 06:07 AM
  13. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Personally I don't need the apps on other phones, I have all that I need with BlackBerry. Their are always *some that want more... **
    It's the security that's a priority for me.*

    *By the way we all know what happened in 2008 with non regulated financial institutions.*
    Do you feel that BlackBerry keeping security concepts close to the chest is an unfair competitive advantage?
    techvisor likes this.
    02-10-15 07:48 AM
  14. Cynycl's Avatar
    Can't wait to read the comments when Chen has a thought on world peace...


    Perhaps he can write a letter to the senate to make sure every country gets nuclear weapons and a star wars defense system because it just so discriminatory otherwise.

    The US is just a monopoly making sure wherdafookginastan doesn't have nuclear weapons to kill people with.

    It so unfair.
    02-10-15 08:09 AM
  15. Tre Lawrence's Avatar


    Perhaps he can write a letter to the senate to make sure every country gets nuclear weapons and a star wars defense system because it just so discriminatory otherwise.

    The US is just a monopoly making sure wherdafookginastan doesn't have nuclear weapons to kill people with.

    It so unfair.
    LOL. Literally!
    02-10-15 08:18 AM
  16. emanuel0ss0's Avatar
    Blackberry didn't beg government to force developers to code for BlackBerry.. BlackBerry is saying what they are seeing.. Basically they are telling government that not aren't fooling anyone(except with people with your kina thinking) when they say that they are legislating internet to be a utility like water and electricity for the sake of consumers and not to favor certain tech giants.
    Apps are to internet what taps and voltage are for water and electricity. Unless you have standard sizes for all taps or appliances to be hooked on to the utility, it is a lost cause to think that you have ensured free access to the resource for everyone. Just imagine every home builder to have their own standard for electrical voltage, recepticle sizes and water pipe sizes. Not a pretty picture, is it?
    Access to internet is no different.

    Btw... one thing that boggles my mind is that how is this made into a developer issue.. A developer should only be concerned with providing his service to consumer, not what platform his service should be allowed on. That simply should not be any of his/her business. I mean if I want to put a BeoLab 20 in my 700 sq feet basement rental suite, why the f' should B&O have the right to tell me I can't?

    Posted via CB10
    Your talking about voltages when we're talking about phone apps. Why should any developer be forced or coerced, or gently nudged into anything other then what they are doing now?

    Blackberry made the call to not develop the app situation years ago. They had the number one OS as early as 2008. They should have made apps and developed them for their phones since then.

    To whine and say "all apps should be coded to run everywhere" is stupid and further puts BB in a hole where they're forced to admit that their app situation sucks.
    02-10-15 08:30 AM
  17. annon91221's Avatar
    I don't know if they can tell you you can't, but sure as hell aren't going to give you support for it.

    People seem to think that we, developers, owe BB the apps. No we don't. People should start trying to learn how to code and develop for multiple platforms and then tell us how easy it would be to bring it to BB10.
    Why is it hard for anyone ( especially developers here) to understand that BlackBerry is asking government to force developers to deveople for all platforms.. What they are asking is simply, to have a standard language where developers don't have to code for so many platforms in the first place. For example, if Electrical companies designs an appliance they really don't have to worry about what part of the world it's going to be used in.. all a consumer needs is to make sure he/she has a 120/240 volt adaptor, which coincidentally is a common built in feature on many electronics now...

    Once again, argument is not for developers to do anything but for the OS makers to have standard APIs so that all code could easily work on them..

    Posted via CB10
    02-10-15 08:39 AM
  18. Cynycl's Avatar
    Why is it hard for anyone ( especially developers here) to understand that BlackBerry is asking government to force developers to deveople for all platforms.. What they are asking is simply, to have a standard language where developers don't have to code for so many platforms in the first place. For example, if Electrical companies designs an appliance they really don't have to worry about what part of the world it's going to be used in.. all a consumer needs is to make sure he/she has a 120/240 volt adaptor, which coincidentally is a common built in feature on many electronics now...

    Once again, argument is not for developers to do anything but for the OS makers to have standard APIs so that all code could easily work on them..

    Posted via CB10
    Then by your logic Blackberry should scrap BB10 and change their code to adopt full android. Clearly it is the market standard worldwide. Works in every country, no adapter necessary.

    Or perhaps I should build a microwave with a different voltage requirement and have congress make all the other "competing" platforms support my great new voltage idea, just because.
    JeepBB, TGR1, jmr1015 and 3 others like this.
    02-10-15 08:54 AM
  19. Soulstream's Avatar
    Why is it hard for anyone ( especially developers here) to understand that BlackBerry is asking government to force developers to deveople for all platforms.. What they are asking is simply, to have a standard language where developers don't have to code for so many platforms in the first place. For example, if Electrical companies designs an appliance they really don't have to worry about what part of the world it's going to be used in.. all a consumer needs is to make sure he/she has a 120/240 volt adaptor, which coincidentally is a common built in feature on many electronics now...

    Once again, argument is not for developers to do anything but for the OS makers to have standard APIs so that all code could easily work on them..

    Posted via CB10
    1. standard APIs will never happen. APIs depend on OS architecture and even hardware architecture. Emulating APIs would kill performance for anything other than high-end phones. OS APIs weren't standardized in desktop OSs for 30 years now (and never will) and you think they will do it in mobile so soon?

    2. You seem to think hardware and software are similar. well, they are not. you compare a pure hardware thing (an electrical appliance) to a hardware + software device (smartphone).

    People don't get it that HTML5 is already there to do most of the work for cross platform apps and still BB has to rely on the Android runtime.
    jmr1015 and ADGrant like this.
    02-10-15 09:34 AM
  20. jmr1015's Avatar
    Why is it hard for anyone ( especially developers here) to understand that BlackBerry is asking government to force developers to deveople for all platforms.. What a they are asking is simply, to have a standard language where developers don't have to code for so many platforms in the first place.

    Once again, argument is not for developers to do anything but for the OS makers to have standard APIs so that all code could easily work on them..

    Posted via CB10
    So, this is actually worse than the original thought of forcing developers to support all platforms and code all their apps to do so, whether that is coding in a universal language or coding natively.

    You want the goverment to step in, and mandate universal Operating System standards? Force companies to change their OS? Yeah... No. If you think developers will stand up to goverment telling them what to do, how do you think companies like Google, Apple, and Microsoft will react to being forced to change Android, iOS, and Windows at their core, to accommodate some universal standard for the fairness of "app neutrality" and a level playing field with companies like BlackBerry?

    Chen's comments were dumb. But:

    ADGrant and techvisor like this.
    02-10-15 03:20 PM
  21. ADGrant's Avatar
    *By the way we all know what happened in 2008 with non regulated financial institutions.*
    All US financial institutions were regulated in 2008.
    02-10-15 07:11 PM
  22. 3MIKE's Avatar
    All US financial institutions were regulated in 2008.
    Because the Canadian banks were regulated they didn't crash like the large US banks. Compared to Canada US banks were a lot less regulated back in 2007-2008 and that's what led to the crash.
    02-10-15 09:13 PM
  23. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    Because the Canadian banks were regulated they didn't crash like the large US banks. Compared to Canada US banks were a lot less regulated back in 2007-2008 and that's what led to the crash.
    If only it were that simple...

    Posted via CB10
    ADGrant, jmr1015 and 3MIKE like this.
    02-10-15 11:42 PM
  24. 3MIKE's Avatar
    If only it were that simple...

    Posted via CB10
    I know, I know !!
    02-11-15 04:21 AM
  25. 3MIKE's Avatar
    It comes back to what John Chen said, he said it to open a debate and at least it started a thread here! IMO I don't think anything is going to happen with app neutrality, at least in the near future.
    02-11-15 04:32 AM
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