03-07-15 09:35 PM
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  1. 3MIKE's Avatar
    Oh well... I guess that's all today, see you tomorrow !
    01-29-15 04:05 PM
  2. jmr1015's Avatar
    That makes no sense to me. What difference does it make what web browser you are using. It's not like Safari is Lynx or anything. If anything, display a warning that there is no guarantee that it will work on non-supported browsers and to use at your own risk. Again, it comes down to properly using standards.
    What difference does it make? Well, the difference is between you using a browser that the software developer has chosen to support, or not. People really don't seem to grasp the concept that software developers do not owe you anything. You're not entitled to access to their software/service. If they choose to focus on developing their software/service around a single or pair of platforms to maximize functionality and optimization, and exclude an operating system or two or some browsers, on any legitimate grounds, they have the right and freedom to do so.

    If developers wanted some sort of universal standard... We'd already have it. Clearly, the majority of developers are happy coding for specific experiences on specific platforms in specific coding languages... and the results of that work is a fantastic native experience on their chosen supported platforms. Forcing some new coding "standard" upon the entire developer community for the sake of the slimmest 1% of the market who choose to use unsupported systems would likely set things back, in terms of quality of user experience... not move them forward. As others have repeatedly said, coding to the lowest common denominator by using some sort of universal standard, would hurt more than it would help.
    01-29-15 05:13 PM
  3. app_Developer's Avatar
    Forcing some new coding "standard" upon the entire developer community for the sake of the slimmest 1% of the market who choose to use unsupported systems would likely set things back, in terms of quality of user experience... not move them forward. .
    Choice is the key word here. People who buy BlackBerry's can afford other phones. Is there a place on earth where BlackBerry is the only choice in the market? Is there a person who can afford a BlackBerry who can't afford a supported Android phone instead?

    So if people willingly choose to buy what they know is a very unpopular phone, then I don't understand why developers and the rest of the industry should be forced (by some govt) to accommodate them? It's a choice. Developers have choices, too.

    What's silly isn't Chen's desire to have his app gap disappear. I can understand his frustration. What is silly, though, is calling attention to his problem in such a public way, with no fix in sight, and asking the government (of all things!) to consider this.


    Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk
    Witmen, JeepBB, Shlooky and 6 others like this.
    01-29-15 05:26 PM
  4. Witmen's Avatar
    What is silly, though, is calling attention to his problem in such a public way, with no fix in sight, and asking the government (of all things!) to consider this.
    I agree!

    It is funny how here on CrackBerry, we see people claiming that the app gap has been closed or no longer exists. I noticed this most right after the Amazon announcement. If any of that was true and the app gap really was gone than why would the CEO of BlackBerry behave so desperately? Chen basically let everyone know that BlackBerry 10 does indeed have a very serious app problem. So serious that he thinks the government should step in and do something about it.

    I don't think Thor or even the Co-CEOs would have done something as truly idiotic as this.
    01-29-15 06:51 PM
  5. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    And just like that Chen has turned into Thor.
    techvisor likes this.
    01-30-15 06:08 AM
  6. lnichols's Avatar
    And just like that Chen has turned into Thor.
    It was inevitable. The culture at Waterloo is apparently so poor, and the reality distortion field so strong, that even sweeping out the majority of execs can't keep the company and the CEO's from shooting themselves in the foot over and over and over again. I knew when so many here put Chen at Jesus status, just like they did with Thor, that this was going to happen.

    What is sad is BB10 and my Z30 is truly a great OS and device. The company behind it....... Yes it needed a 1080 screen for when it launched and what it was priced at, but had the Z30 been the first BB10 device and they had 10.2.1 running on it things would be different IMHO. they simply repeated the PlayBook launch with BB10 and paid the same price. None of these were Chen's doing, but now he is repeating the problem of poor choice of words and context, and his predecessors have worn out any wiggle room for this to happen today.

    Posted via CB10
    01-30-15 07:20 AM
  7. DaedalusIcarusHelios's Avatar
    What difference does it make? Well, the difference is between you using a browser that the software developer has chosen to support, or not. People really don't seem to grasp the concept that software developers do not owe you anything. You're not entitled to access to their software/service. If they choose to focus on developing their software/service around a single or pair of platforms to maximize functionality and optimization, and exclude an operating system or two or some browsers, on any legitimate grounds, they have the right and freedom to do so.

    If developers wanted some sort of universal standard... We'd already have it. Clearly, the majority of developers are happy coding for specific experiences on specific platforms in specific coding languages... and the results of that work is a fantastic native experience on their chosen supported platforms. Forcing some new coding "standard" upon the entire developer community for the sake of the slimmest 1% of the market who choose to use unsupported systems would likely set things back, in terms of quality of user experience... not move them forward. As others have repeatedly said, coding to the lowest common denominator by using some sort of universal standard, would hurt more than it would help.
    This isn't about entitlement. If developers are blocking specific web browsers for no apparent reason, then they are being DBs.

    Think of how the web was, when Internet Explorer ruled and sites were built with ActiveX and wouldn't work on other browsers. Think about the lack of standards where a site would be coded specifically for one browser and not work or look horrible in another. The web is the perfect example of how standards make everything better. It doesn't have to be forced, but it should be a goal to strive for so that a developer doesn't have to make an app for iPhone, and a completely different app for Android (and no app at all for other platforms). I understand that we'd want feature parity and ease of usage in the development and testing environments. That's not an impossible task. I think the problem here is people can't see past their own nose and see what is possible, and only focus on how it can't work right this second.
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    01-30-15 01:47 PM
  8. SeeBeeEss's Avatar
    Are we far enough along that we can begin the "guess which country the writer is from" game? No peeking!
    01-30-15 04:49 PM
  9. ADGrant's Avatar
    This isn't about entitlement. If developers are blocking specific web browsers for no apparent reason, then they are being DBs.

    Think of how the web was, when Internet Explorer ruled and sites were built with ActiveX and wouldn't work on other browsers. Think about the lack of standards where a site would be coded specifically for one browser and not work or look horrible in another. The web is the perfect example of how standards make everything better. It doesn't have to be forced, but it should be a goal to strive for so that a developer doesn't have to make an app for iPhone, and a completely different app for Android (and no app at all for other platforms). I understand that we'd want feature parity and ease of usage in the development and testing environments. That's not an impossible task. I think the problem here is people can't see past their own nose and see what is possible, and only focus on how it can't work right this second.
    Calling someone a DB because they don't want to support a particular browser seems a little harsh. No one is stopping you from building your own universal apps.
    MikeX74 likes this.
    01-30-15 05:30 PM
  10. jmr1015's Avatar
    This isn't about entitlement. If developers are blocking specific web browsers for no apparent reason, then they are being DBs.
    Calling someone a DB because they don't want to support a particular browser seems a little harsh. No one is stopping you from building your own universal apps.
    En•ti•tle•ment - : the condition of having a right to have, do, or get something

    : the feeling or belief that you deserve to be given something


    Seriously, developers owe you nothing. They owe BlackBerry nothing. They have no obligation to abandon native development to pursue some universal standard for the sake of fairness, when native works so well. Obviously native yields the quality of experience and return on investment most are after.

    If individual developers want to take it upon themselves to develop in a universal language, by choice, then cool. If that standard someday catches on and ends up yielding end user experience equivalent to native, cool. But it needs to come organically, by choice. That route is for the developers to pursue, if they want. Mandating a universal standard "now, right now, because it's not fair!" is entitlement generation crazy talk. Mandating a standard to try and force the evolution of universal coding that is equivalent to native, is crazy.
    ADGrant, 3MIKE, JeepBB and 4 others like this.
    01-30-15 07:00 PM
  11. DaedalusIcarusHelios's Avatar
    Calling someone a DB because they don't want to support a particular browser seems a little harsh. No one is stopping you from building your own universal apps.
    Perhaps, but for that particular example of purposely blocking users from your content for no other reason than picking favorites, seems fitting. Not building a native app for BB isn't discrimination, but blocking a particular browser for a website for no legitimate reason is. On that point it's a difference of philosophy I guess.

    Entitlement - : the condition of having a right to have, do, or get something

    : the feeling or belief that you deserve to be given something


    Seriously, developers owe you nothing. They owe BlackBerry nothing. They have no obligation to abandon native development to pursue some universal standard for the sake of fairness, when native works so well. Obviously native yields the quality of experience and return on investment most are after.

    If individual developers want to take it upon themselves to develop in a universal language, by choice, then cool. If that standard someday catches on and ends up yielding end user experience equivalent to native, cool. But it needs to come organically, by choice. That route is for the developers to pursue, if they want. Mandating a universal standard "now, right now, because it's not fair!" is entitlement generation crazy talk. Mandating a standard to try and force the evolution of universal coding that is equivalent to native, is crazy.
    Thanks for that. I had no idea what entitlement meant. I just randomly throw words out there.

    I'm not saying developers should be forced to abandon native development or forced to develop in another language or for another platform. I agree that any universal standard should take over organically, and I believe it will eventually as its capabilities develop. The best return on investment is to make an app once, run everywhere. What I'm advocating is a strong push by the industry to work out that future universal language so it fills the needs of all and runs optimally on all OSes and hardware, without handicapping it on purpose. I'm also advocating that if something works on another platform, it shouldn't be arbitrarily blocked just because. I personally think large service providers (Netflix) should try to make their services available everywhere, so if any kind of government intervention is involved, it should be to remove the ability to block devices or regions from content. That's a big can of worms, but I really don't think it should be necessary to use a VPN for people in another country to watch Netflix content. That's not Netflix's fault there, and I'm sure they'd be happy for that change.
    Last edited by DaedalusIcarusHelios; 01-30-15 at 11:51 PM.
    01-30-15 10:53 PM
  12. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Again, Netflix owns very little content - most of its content it licenses, and the content owners currently prohibit Netflix from making its (or, rather, the content owners') content available via mobile web browsers - any mobile web browsers. Netflix isn't picking favorites - you can't use Netflix via web on ANY platform.

    And, yes, those same content owners also restrict where their programming is available, because they've made deals with other companies in other countries (or are receiving the right to do so) for distributing their content. And while I question many of their decisions myself, at the end of the day, they do own the content, and have every right to decide who distributes it (or not) and where.
    jmr1015, techvisor and mornhavon like this.
    01-30-15 11:16 PM
  13. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Again, Netflix owns very little content - most of its content it licenses, and the content owners currently prohibit Netflix from making its (or, rather, the content owners') content available via mobile web browsers - any mobile web browsers. Netflix isn't picking favorites - you can't use Netflix via web on ANY platform.

    And, yes, those same content owners also restrict where their programming is available, because they've made deals with other companies in other countries (or are receiving the right to do so) for distributing their content. And while I question many of their decisions myself, at the end of the day, they do own the content, and have every right to decide who distributes it (or not) and where.
    This (Netflix mobile browser restriction) has been noted here and elsewhere for quite some time, but I suspect now that the seed of "discrimination" has been planted, this pertinent fact will be ignored.
    jmr1015, JeepBB and mornhavon like this.
    01-30-15 11:42 PM
  14. thracian's Avatar
    Are we far enough along that we can begin the "guess which country the writer is from" game? No peeking!
    I am not of this world. Your primitive planet amuses us.
    JeepBB and MarsupilamiX like this.
    01-30-15 11:54 PM
  15. DaedalusIcarusHelios's Avatar
    Again, Netflix owns very little content - most of its content it licenses, and the content owners currently prohibit Netflix from making its (or, rather, the content owners') content available via mobile web browsers - any mobile web browsers. Netflix isn't picking favorites - you can't use Netflix via web on ANY platform.

    And, yes, those same content owners also restrict where their programming is available, because they've made deals with other companies in other countries (or are receiving the right to do so) for distributing their content. And while I question many of their decisions myself, at the end of the day, they do own the content, and have every right to decide who distributes it (or not) and where.
    Yes, I know that. It makes no sense that I can use a desktop browser to watch Netflix but not on a mobile browser. That shouldn't be the case as it is arbitrary. I mean, why is it OK as an app on mobile but not a browser? It was probably done when mobile browsers sucked and couldn't technically support it. Times have changed, so should the underlying contracts.

    Regional makes more logical sense, but I dont like it, even though as an American that doesn't really impact me. Seems like it's just needlessly complicated.

    Posted via CB10
    01-31-15 12:14 AM
  16. app_Developer's Avatar
    Yes, I know that. It makes no sense that I can use a desktop browser to watch Netflix but not on a mobile browser. That shouldn't be the case as it is arbitrary. I mean, why is it OK as an app on mobile but not a browser? It was probably done when mobile browsers sucked and couldn't technically support it. Times have changed, so should the underlying contracts.
    It's because the shipping versions mobile safari and mobile chrome don't quite support EME yet. There is also an issue with EME support for these browsers on the Netflix side which probably isn't a huge priority for them to fix because the apps work just fine.

    In the future if you have complete EME support on mobile browsers that may change. But Netflix would have to do significant work to make this work (they may not have an incentive to do this). Also Apple would have to implement EME on iOS in a way that doesn't use a lot of battery. Apple did this for the Mac, they may not have the same incentive to do this on iOS.

    So the app dependency on mobile is because of DRM. It's not arbitrary. That may or may not go away over the next couple of years.

    Does BB10 browser support EME correctly now? (Netflix would still have to fix their issues to support this of course.)

    Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk
    mornhavon likes this.
    01-31-15 06:17 AM
  17. lnichols's Avatar
    Perhaps, but for that particular example of purposely blocking users from your content for no other reason than picking favorites, seems fitting. Not building a native app for BB isn't discrimination, but blocking a particular browser for a website for no legitimate reason is. On that point it's a difference of philosophy I guess.



    Thanks for that. I had no idea what entitlement meant. I just randomly throw words out there.

    I'm not saying developers should be forced to abandon native development or forced to develop in another language or for another platform. I agree that any universal standard should take over organically, and I believe it will eventually as its capabilities develop. The best return on investment is to make an app once, run everywhere. What I'm advocating is a strong push by the industry to work out that future universal language so it fills the needs of all and runs optimally on all OSes and hardware, without handicapping it on purpose. I'm also advocating that if something works on another platform, it shouldn't be arbitrarily blocked just because. I personally think large service providers (Netflix) should try to make their services available everywhere, so if any kind of government intervention is involved, it should be to remove the ability to block devices or regions from content. That's a big can of worms, but I really don't think it should be necessary to use a VPN for people in another country to watch Netflix content. That's not Netflix's fault there, and I'm sure they'd be happy for that change.
    Did you not see the posts about them not being allowed by the content providers to allow any mobile browsers? Yes the browser could support it, but if they are not permitted by their agreements to allow mobile browsers access, then it's ability to support it is moot and them cutting off access isn't discrimination, it is honoring their agreements. Same for blocking of regions. Do you not think Netflix would want the same content in both Canada and US? They don't because of agreements with the owners of the content.

    Again go to the Amazon App store, download Netflix, it works, and Amazon is doing exactly what BlackBerry is telling all developers to do now: Develop in Android and release via Amazon.

    It's not Netflix's problem that it took BlackBerry so long to get the Android emulator after announcing (year after PlayBook introduction) and until 10.2.1 to get it to a fairly usable state. BlackBerry told the world they would support Android apps just prior to launching the PlayBook, the world said why learn a third platform if they will support one of the two main ones. In the meantime while BlackBerry has dragged along delivering what they stated, Google has taken steps to provide devs better features and frameworks tied to Google Play services, which now hinders the Android players app support. Google did this to stick it to companies like Amazon and BlackBerry who are trying to use their work without Google benefiting.

    Posted via CB10
    techvisor likes this.
    01-31-15 07:53 AM
  18. trsbbs's Avatar
    This thread still going?
    Things are slow and dull in the world of BlackBerry.



    BlackBerry hates America!
    techvisor likes this.
    01-31-15 07:55 AM
  19. Hendri Hendri's Avatar
    We are still talking about netflix? I thought BlackBerry only for serious person who don't need entertainment

    Posted via CB10
    techvisor, asherN and BB_Junky like this.
    01-31-15 08:07 AM
  20. ADGrant's Avatar
    We are still talking about netflix? I thought BlackBerry only for serious person who don't need entertainment

    Posted via CB10
    Those are the people who should be buying BBs. The only person I know with a BB10 device plans to switch to an iPhone because of the lack of a Netflix app (and yes Netflix was specifically mentioned).

    Personally, I don't use my smartphone to watch videos so I have no video playback apps on my phone.
    01-31-15 08:30 AM
  21. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    Those are the people who should be buying BBs. The only person I know with a BB10 device plans to switch to an iPhone because of the lack of a Netflix app (and yes Netflix was specifically mentioned).

    Personally, I don't use my smartphone to watch videos so I have no video playback apps on my phone.
    Keep in mind, though, that these days apps like Netflix and YouTube aren't just for streaming on the device. I use Chromecast and I still need the Netflix app to launch the show/movie for viewing on my a TV.

    Back when I had unlimited data I used to watch TV shows on Netflix at the gym during cardio sessions.
    01-31-15 10:03 AM
  22. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    Those are the people who should be buying BBs. The only person I know with a BB10 device plans to switch to an iPhone because of the lack of a Netflix app (and yes Netflix was specifically mentioned).

    Personally, I don't use my smartphone to watch videos so I have no video playback apps on my phone.
    He should download the android Netflix... buying a another phone for one specific app that you can still get if you really want it.

    Posted via CB10
    3MIKE likes this.
    01-31-15 12:23 PM
  23. ADGrant's Avatar
    He should download the android Netflix... buying a another phone for one specific app that you can still get if you really want it.

    Posted via CB10
    He claims he did and he thinks it sucks.
    01-31-15 12:24 PM
  24. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    He claims he did and he thinks it sucks.
    10.2.1 I imagine?

    Posted via CB10
    01-31-15 12:27 PM
  25. ADGrant's Avatar
    10.2.1 I imagine?

    Posted via CB10
    Probably, his phone is a Z10.
    01-31-15 12:33 PM
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