03-07-15 09:35 PM
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  1. emanuel0ss0's Avatar
    The bottom line Mr. Chen, is to tell your BB developers to make the apps you want. Don't cry to Apple and Android and blame them for dominating the market. They are doing what they need to do to make money. No companies are going to work together to make apps accessible to everyone. Why would Apple and Android want to lose any of the market share they TOOK from Blackberry?

    Make your platform better for the consumer, which you don't care about since you're "focused on enterprise" or now you care about "let's make apps for everyone". How about you sell Apple and Android the secret to making the Hub, or sharing how you make everything secure? It will never happen because it would drive your entire market share to Android and iPhone.

    Stop whining and make Blackberry what it once was.
    crackberry_geek likes this.
    01-28-15 10:43 AM
  2. ADGrant's Avatar
    Some interesting info on app store revenue which helps explain the "Apple First" approach taken by most mobile app developers.

    Google Play Downloads Are Growing Faster, but Apple Is Still Winning the Money Race | Re/code

    Basically Apple makes you more money with less platform fragmentation.
    01-28-15 11:39 AM
  3. thracian's Avatar
    who cares? He's still responsible for what his end submission was regardless of what any of us choose to interpret as his intentions. You don't submit a statement and then say "oh but this is what I really mean".

    c'mon. What's next, are we to expect he's going to demand a net neutrality clause for reading minds when he F's up?
    crackberry_geek and MikeX74 like this.
    01-28-15 11:57 AM
  4. emanuel0ss0's Avatar
    who cares? He's still responsible for what his end submission was regardless of what any of us choose to interpret as his intentions. You don't submit a statement and then say "oh but this is what I really mean".

    c'mon. What's next, are we to expect he's going to demand a net neutrality clause for reading minds when he F's up?
    its clear as day what he meant. He wants all apps to be made for all platforms. Everyone here is just trying to figure out why he would say something like that. Is it really about the apps? is he just trying to keep BB in the headlines?

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    01-28-15 12:25 PM
  5. xandermac's Avatar
    its clear as day what he meant. He wants all apps to be made for all platforms. Everyone here is just trying to figure out why he would say something like that. Is it really about the apps? is he just trying to keep BB in the headlines?

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    It's a desperate grasp to stay relevant.
    01-28-15 12:31 PM
  6. early2bed's Avatar
    Only a billion iOS devices have been sold thus far so I'm sure the technology world is waiting to hear what John Chen's recommendations are about how the smartphone ecosystem should work. Please, enlighten us more Mr. Chen. You've been in the smartphone business for over a year now and delivered us the revolutionary Blackberry Classic. Tell us more.
    01-28-15 12:56 PM
  7. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    Only a billion iOS devices have been sold thus far so I'm sure the technology world is waiting to hear what John Chen's recommendations are about how the smartphone ecosystem should work. Please, enlighten us more Mr. Chen. You've been in the smartphone business for over a year now and delivered us the revolutionary Blackberry Classic. Tell us more.
    Lol

    He doesn't care really. He's too interested in enterprise software... where BlackBerry will be the next "has been".

    Posted via CB10
    01-28-15 01:02 PM
  8. Yatezy's Avatar
    you don't get it and that is the problem but it's your problem not mine.

    Posted via CB10
    Could it be you're just not getting it. Everyone but you seems to be in agreement he made a boo boo and is asking for something that isn't possible.

    Since he wrote it down in a letter, it's been proof read. What he wrote is exactly what he meant. It's not like a live interview where you can easily put your foot in your mouth as you open it without thinking. This is penned letter with thought that has gone in to what he is going to say. And unfortunately his thoughts are as bad as everyone is making out.

    Admittedly I'm on page 19 of this train wreck so maybe your views could have changed in the next couple of pages.
    crackberry_geek likes this.
    01-28-15 01:53 PM
  9. anon3923428's Avatar
    Some developers have a detailed cross platform strategy. One of those developers is Microsoft. In the case of MS Office they produce applications for Windows, Mac, iOS and Android. They discussed their cross platform strategy at a C++ conference I attended recently. All their core functionality is written in C++. In theory this would make it easy to port their apps to BB which provides C++ based tools for their platform. However, they have not done so. In fact none of the cross platform mobile talks I attended at that conference mentioned BB10 at all. A C++ developer who works for BB did try to introduce the topic during one Q&A, but no one was interested. Then again, Microsoft's new WinRT platform isn't attracting much interest either. Instagram's app is terrible according to WP Phone users.

    The problem is simple, app developers aren't interested in developing for platforms which do not have significant market share. Consumer app developers aren't going to release apps on platforms that are mostly used by enterprises either. Enterprise IT frequently prevents third party apps being installed on company devices. Some even disable BBM.
    Yes of course but the flip side here is that because they didn't build it, BlackBerry does not and will not ever have those market shares. That's where the problem lies.

    Posted via CB10
    01-28-15 02:06 PM
  10. emanuel0ss0's Avatar
    Yes of course but the flip side here is that because they didn't build it, BlackBerry does not and will not ever have those market shares. That's where the problem lies.

    Posted via CB10
    The flip side to what you said is the BB HAD the market share and refused to adapt to the changing consumer market. Apple and Android adapted and look at them now. Blackberry is a far distant three or four in terms of marketshare through their own arrogance. They should have developed apps when they were number one and had all developers clamoring for them.

    Another problem that happens is alot of the apps on BB are apps people have to pay for. This is no disrespect to developers, but why would i want to BUY an instagram or SnapChat app when i can get if for FREE on iOS or Android?
    01-28-15 02:22 PM
  11. MikeX74's Avatar
    I want to throw something out there. Isn't Blackberry big enough to develop app them damn selves? Or if they choose not to, give incentives for developers to make apps for you. I don't know what the split is/was, but 50/50 sounds good to me as a start and it would go up for the DEVELOPER as more copies are sold.

    He's the CEO of a pretty big company. If he wanted to have Netflix on his devices, he should've called Netflix and said "Let US(we incur the cost) build an app to run on Blackberry. We're small, but our users have been requesting it for years now and we want to make them happy."

    There is too much reliance on Android to make things at Blackberry move forward and I don't think that really a good thing.
    Microsoft tried something similar a few years ago. They went to Dunkin' Brands(parent of Dunkin' Donuts and Baskin Robbins for those who don't know), noticing that DD didn't have an app for Windows Phone. They proposed that Microsoft would build and maintain a DD app, instead of Dunkin'Brands hiring a developer to do it for them. Apparently, there was no interest in having a presence on the WP platform, so they declined. If a company like Microsoft can go to a large chain like Dunkin' Brands and be turned away, why would BlackBerry be more successful?

    BTW, nice avi. Flair rules!
    01-28-15 02:25 PM
  12. MikeX74's Avatar
    I would say that everything you post here is anti BlackBerry, so the theme of what you say is predictable and readily dismissed.

    Posted via CB10
    I thought we could all state our opinions, whether they be pro-BlackBerry or not. You're saying that isn't the case?
    01-28-15 02:29 PM
  13. Cynycl's Avatar
    Yes of course but the flip side here is that because they didn't build it, BlackBerry does not and will not ever have those market shares. That's where the problem lies.

    Posted via CB10
    Yes it's all the app developers fault. Your absolutely right. They discriminated against Blackberry. They all got together in Vegas and developed a secret handshake, swore an oath and Steve Jobs paid them billions of dollars not to make apps for Blackberry. Then they faked the moon landing and shot JFK.

    Had nothing to do with the pencil pushers that remained in Blackberrry management and the laying off of the staff that could likely build an app. Nothing to do with paying millions for marching elephant ads during the superbowl that even blackberry owners couldn't figure out. Not the wonderful marketing strategy employed since that abomination.

    Nope, it's that consortium of app developers hell bent on destroying John Chen's visionary dream of the internet of Blackberry.
    Last edited by Cynycl; 01-28-15 at 04:10 PM.
    jmr1015, marty314 and TGR1 like this.
    01-28-15 02:36 PM
  14. emanuel0ss0's Avatar
    Microsoft tried something similar a few years ago. They went to Dunkin' Brands(parent of Dunkin' Donuts and Baskin Robbins for those who don't know), noticing that DD didn't have an app for Windows Phone. They proposed that Microsoft would build and maintain a DD app, instead of Dunkin'Brands hiring a developer to do it for them. Apparently, there was no interest in having a presence on the WP platform, so they declined. If a company like Microsoft can go to a large chain like Dunkin' Brands and be turned away, why would BlackBerry be more successful?

    BTW, nice avi. Flair rules!
    thanks about the avi. saw it and had to use. also i didnt know about the dunkin donuts and windows thing. why would a company say no to them getting an app for free? its zero cost and all the reward. That's a win win in my book.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    01-28-15 02:55 PM
  15. Yatezy's Avatar
    Here is the issue, neither Apple nor Google have any motivation for a common framework, and most devs would only care about a common framework that pumped out iOS and Android apps with little care for Windows support and even less care for BlackBerry support. What you and Chen are saying, even if started to be worked on now, would take years to get to a convergence point, and BlackBerry doesn't have years IMHO.

    If BlackBerry wants a something to pump out apps for Apple, Google, and BlackBerry, then they need to buy a company or invest in a company to make such a thing, and it will cost lots of money to keep it functional as every year you will have to keep up with the changes on at least 3 OS systems and keep them working in the tool. Right now BlackBerry is the only company interested in a feature that supports BlackBerry apps. HTML5 isn't there yet either.

    Posted via CB10
    Apple when it was first released the iPhone it wanted apps to run through its browser. It was app developers who pushed for native apps.

    I think it's safe to say the public has spoken.
    TGR1 likes this.
    01-28-15 03:02 PM
  16. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    who cares? He's still responsible for what his end submission was regardless of what any of us choose to interpret as his intentions. You don't submit a statement and then say "oh but this is what I really mean".

    c'mon. What's next, are we to expect he's going to demand a net neutrality clause for reading minds when he F's up?
    To be fair, JC ain't denying what he said. It's his, uh, excitable fans that are doing the spin.
    MikeX74, jmr1015, thracian and 2 others like this.
    01-28-15 03:12 PM
  17. DaedalusIcarusHelios's Avatar
    Microsoft tried something similar a few years ago. They went to Dunkin' Brands(parent of Dunkin' Donuts and Baskin Robbins for those who don't know), noticing that DD didn't have an app for Windows Phone. They proposed that Microsoft would build and maintain a DD app, instead of Dunkin'Brands hiring a developer to do it for them. Apparently, there was no interest in having a presence on the WP platform, so they declined. If a company like Microsoft can go to a large chain like Dunkin' Brands and be turned away, why would BlackBerry be more successful?

    BTW, nice avi. Flair rules!
    Doesn't that really shine a light to the crux of the problem? This just perpetuates the mobile phone duopoly. The whole app ecosystem thing is merely a means to control and lock-in, and it's working quite effectively (Apple was genius on that point). The whole idea of content/app neutrality should be about how we resolve these issues. If you don't think it's an issue, that's because you aren't affected by it and you're complacent on your ecosystem of choice.

    One of the things Apple does is allow mobile sites to be setup such that saving a shortcut to it on your app icon grid can present the mobile site in a way that appears to be an app, without the unnecessary browser chrome. That's a way forward. There should be a universal standard so that mobile sites can be setup like that and function as if they were apps on all mobile devices. This would work for many apps. Expand on the ability for HTML5 and javascript to invoke device functionality and fully integrate to allow features that a native app would allow. Make sure there is full hardware acceleration of web apps. This can be the third major ecosystem which could eventually become the dominant one (a universal ecosystem, which is what the internet is all about). Let's get rid of the proprietary crap, and suddenly the playing field is more even and it comes down to innovation and execution, which I have no doubt Apple and Google will still be successful in. More than just helping other OSes though, this will help end-users in that they aren't locked in and they can move between different devices without losing their content.

    As for the present, apps that work shouldn't be arbitrarily denied access on specific devices. Netflix on a Passport in Amazon App Store is the perfect example of this. Again, if we think about it in the context of the internet, it's like having code on a web page that prevents access due to using Internet Explorer. It might work just fine. Even if there may be issues, a warning should really be all that is given with the ability to continue on.
    01-28-15 03:14 PM
  18. app_Developer's Avatar
    Doesn't that really shine a light to the crux of the problem? This just perpetuates the mobile phone duopoly..
    So when I first started writing iPhone apps 7 years ago, we had the same issue. You either wrote apps for Symbian or for BlackBerry. The duopoly was upended, and this one can be also.

    But the answer isn't putting away the great tools and going back to drawing in crayons with HTML5. Someday someone will make a platform where you can make apps that you can't make on iOS and Android. Then that platform will get all the developer attention it could ever want.

    Apple did that with just a few million users and an SDK that was remarkable compared to the nonsense we were dealing with on BBOS and Symbian in those days.


    Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by app_Developer; 01-28-15 at 04:39 PM.
    01-28-15 03:24 PM
  19. MikeX74's Avatar
    Doesn't that really shine a light to the crux of the problem? This just perpetuates the mobile phone duopoly. The whole app ecosystem thing is merely a means to control and lock-in, and it's working quite effectively (Apple was genius on that point). The whole idea of content/app neutrality should be about how we resolve these issues. If you don't think it's an issue, that's because you aren't affected by it and you're complacent on your ecosystem of choice.

    One of the things Apple does is allow mobile sites to be setup such that saving a shortcut to it on your app icon grid can present the mobile site in a way that appears to be an app, without the unnecessary browser chrome. That's a way forward. There should be a universal standard so that mobile sites can be setup like that and function as if they were apps on all mobile devices. This would work for many apps. Expand on the ability for HTML5 and javascript to invoke device functionality and fully integrate to allow features that a native app would allow. Make sure there is full hardware acceleration of web apps. This can be the third major ecosystem which could eventually become the dominant one (a universal ecosystem, which is what the internet is all about). Let's get rid of the proprietary crap, and suddenly the playing field is more even and it comes down to innovation and execution, which I have no doubt Apple and Google will still be successful in. More than just helping other OSes though, this will help end-users in that they aren't locked in and they can move between different devices without losing their content.

    As for the present, apps that work shouldn't be arbitrarily denied access on specific devices. Netflix on a Passport in Amazon App Store is the perfect example of this. Again, if we think about it in the context of the internet, it's like having code on a web page that prevents access due to using Internet Explorer. It might work just fine. Even if there may be issues, a warning should really be all that is given with the ability to continue on.
    The point of that example is not to highlight the duopoly, but to say that the duopoly has been chosen and encouraged. Developers(for the most part) have CHOSEN to only support iOS and Android, with some WP support here and there. Why, because that's where the users are. That's where users have CHOSEN to be.
    jmr1015, TGR1 and mornhavon like this.
    01-28-15 04:11 PM
  20. early2bed's Avatar
    Don't forget that there is still plenty of innovation going on with development languages. Take a look at Apple's Swift. They are making development more powerful and easier at the same time. You can take the course at Stanford U this semester for free via iTunes U. How awesome is that?


    https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=01272015a
    LazyEvul and TGR1 like this.
    01-28-15 06:51 PM
  21. ADGrant's Avatar
    Yes of course but the flip side here is that because they didn't build it, BlackBerry does not and will not ever have those market shares. That's where the problem lies.

    Posted via CB10
    But it's Blackberries problem that BB10 doesn't have MS Office or other cross platform apps, not Microsoft's or any other third party. Unfortunately given BB's limited resources, it may be an impossible problem to solve. Even Microsoft with its extremely deep pockets and its own set of well regarded apps is having difficulties becoming relevant in mobile.
    01-28-15 08:30 PM
  22. ADGrant's Avatar
    Doesn't that really shine a light to the crux of the problem? This just perpetuates the mobile phone duopoly. The whole app ecosystem thing is merely a means to control and lock-in, and it's working quite effectively (Apple was genius on that point). The whole idea of content/app neutrality should be about how we resolve these issues. If you don't think it's an issue, that's because you aren't affected by it and you're complacent on your ecosystem of choice.
    There has been either a monopoly or duopoly in the desktop market for the last 30 years. When it reinvented the smartphone and tablet, Apple was also able to gain enough mindshare and foot traffic in its stores to win back some meaningful market share for its laptops and desktops. Its finally possible to live a Microsoft free life should you wish to (or just use MS Office).
    01-28-15 08:35 PM
  23. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    How many here at BB were crying "monopoly" or "duopoly" when BB and Palm were the two big companies in smartphones? How unfair was it then? Who was crying for Microsoft and Symbian?

    Be honest: you only care about "fairness" when it is YOUR ox being gored. When it's someone else's ox, you are indifferent. And now there are 2 billion smartphone users indifferent to BB's plight.
    01-28-15 09:45 PM
  24. z10Jobe's Avatar
    I thought we could all state our opinions, whether they be pro-BlackBerry or not. You're saying that isn't the case?
    Huh? Why would you ask a question like that? You are attempting to attach words to me that I never posted. But, whatever....

    To answer your question, of course you are welcome to state any opinion that you want. Similarly, I can dismiss it as yet another iMore comment on this thread.
    3MIKE likes this.
    01-28-15 10:49 PM
  25. 3MIKE's Avatar
    The machines are asleep zzzzzz!
    01-28-15 10:57 PM
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