03-07-15 09:35 PM
864 ... 1819202122 ...
tools
  1. DaSchwantz's Avatar
    I have a simple question. Why is everyone 100% certain that Chen is talking about 'forcing' devs to produce multiple native versions for all various OSs versus an approach that forces at least a single simplified Web version with equivalent functionality using html5? His exact words are:

    "All wireless broadband customers must have the ability to access any lawful applications and content they choose, and applications/content providers must be prohibited from discriminating based on the customers mobile operating system."

    It's amazing how quickly the mockery volume level went to 11, yet everybody is mocking things he didn't actually say. They're also completely ignoring his comments on carrier locking, reclassification, etc.

    Posted via CB10
    01-24-15 07:39 PM
  2. Cynycl's Avatar
    I have a simple question. Why is everyone 100% certain that Chen is talking about 'forcing' devs to produce multiple native versions for all various OSs versus an approach that forces at least a single simplified Web version with equivalent functionality using html5? His exact words are:

    "All wireless broadband customers must have the ability to access any lawful applications and content they choose, and applications/content providers must be prohibited from discriminating based on the customers mobile operating system."

    It's amazing how quickly the mockery volume level went to 11, yet everybody is mocking things he didn't actually say. They're also completely ignoring his comments on carrier locking, reclassification, etc.

    Posted via CB10
    It the forcing part that's at issue.

    The fact that these apps aren't available to BlackBerry because they marginalized themselves in the market by their own mismanagement and dearth of advertising and now the successful competition should be FORCED to give them their property. Product that they developed at great cost and with adequate management and promotion. It its tantamount to giving every athlete a gold medal at the Olympics just for participation. No need to assess talent and skill. Those qualities are discriminatory.

    Its the premise that a massive corporation with billions in cash somehow has been discriminated against by the very entities they are competing against that boggle the rational mind.

    John Chen .... like many others in business and politics, need to consider the ludicrous statements they make to the media. Let alone to Congress.
    Last edited by Cynycl; 01-24-15 at 08:24 PM.
    01-24-15 08:12 PM
  3. leglace1's Avatar
    I have a simple question. Why is everyone 100% certain that Chen is talking about 'forcing' devs to produce multiple native versions for all various OSs versus an approach that forces at least a single simplified Web version with equivalent functionality using html5? His exact words are:

    "All wireless broadband customers must have the ability to access any lawful applications and content they choose, and applications/content providers must be prohibited from discriminating based on the customers mobile operating system."

    It's amazing how quickly the mockery volume level went to 11, yet everybody is mocking things he didn't actually say. They're also completely ignoring his comments on carrier locking, reclassification, etc.

    Posted via CB10
    Your right. He could be talking about access to the api, which has been kept out of BlackBerry's hands. Facebook keeps getting nibblets. It's a fair argument so long as it does not require any work on the part of the app owners.

    Excellent point. This would be an example of a company discriminating against a particular company. If they make it available to one company, they should do the same for all.

    Posted via CB10
    01-24-15 08:14 PM
  4. ADGrant's Avatar
    Apple is gaining ground in the desktop/laptop word (especially laptop), but Windows is still king. I prefer OSX but I still need my PC for many things.
    I still occasionally need to fire up Windows. Ironically, given some of the posts on this thread, its to use Internet Explorer. Some sites still don't work that well on Safari or Chrome. HTML isn't the magic solution to cross platform that some here seem to believe.

    Windows may be king in the enterprise but not in the coffee shops of New York City or Google or the rest of Silicon Valley. I was in a hotel lobby in London with a "co-working" space. Almost everyone had Macs.

    From iMore:

    The press gallery over the State of the Union looks like an Apple ad | iMore

    Press at the Windows 10 event also look like an Apple ad | iMore

    I did spot a couple of Surface 3s in the photo of the Windows 10 event though.
    01-24-15 08:16 PM
  5. ADGrant's Avatar
    The problem with that is that apple won't (currently) license OS X to Dell, HP, Lenovo and many other manufacturers of that market. In the end that is the reason why apple will never own the crown. Too many manufacturer that rely on windows and now are eyeing Google if Microsoft fails.

    Posted via CB10
    Perhaps BB should license BB10 to its competitors . Apple is certainly not going to license its platform to anyone. Last time they did that it was a disaster.
    01-24-15 08:20 PM
  6. ADGrant's Avatar
    I have a simple question. Why is everyone 100% certain that Chen is talking about 'forcing' devs to produce multiple native versions for all various OSs versus an approach that forces at least a single simplified Web version with equivalent functionality using html5? His exact words are:

    "All wireless broadband customers must have the ability to access any lawful applications and content they choose, and applications/content providers must be prohibited from discriminating based on the customer’s mobile operating system."

    It's amazing how quickly the mockery volume level went to 11, yet everybody is mocking things he didn't actually say. They're also completely ignoring his comments on carrier locking, reclassification, etc.

    Posted via CB10
    "applications/content providers must be prohibited from discriminating based on the customer’s mobile operating system".

    Forcing "at least a single simplified Web version with equivalent functionality using html5" is just as bad as forcing developers to produce multiple native versions.
    jmr1015, Cynycl, MikeX74 and 1 others like this.
    01-24-15 08:23 PM
  7. avt123's Avatar
    I still occasionally need to fire up Windows. Ironically, given some of the posts on this thread, its to use Internet Explorer. Some sites still don't work that well on Safari or Chrome. HTML isn't the magic solution to cross platform that some here seem to believe.

    Windows may be king in the enterprise but not in the coffee shops of New York City or Google or the rest of Silicon Valley. I was in a hotel lobby in London with a "co-working" space. Almost everyone had Macs.

    From iMore:

    The press gallery over the State of the Union looks like an Apple ad | iMore

    Press at the Windows 10 event also look like an Apple ad | iMore

    I did spot a couple of Surface 3s in the photo of the Windows 10 event though.
    If I didn't need Windows for certain things, I wouldn't use it at all. My MacBook Pro is my go to computer.
    01-24-15 08:24 PM
  8. leglace1's Avatar
    This is less about Apple and Android and more about companies like Netflix.

    Posted via CB10
    menshawy likes this.
    01-24-15 08:24 PM
  9. ADGrant's Avatar
    Really, show the proof.

    The only thing BlackBerry Didn't do was not follow suit until it was too late. That's what hurt BlackBerry. What's the excuse now... 10 million bb10 users.... where the apps Hal?

    Posted via CB10
    10 million is a very small number.
    mornhavon likes this.
    01-24-15 08:24 PM
  10. ADGrant's Avatar
    There was certainty no legal basis for that outcome.
    I am not sure about that. I think Windows had about 95% of the US market in PCs at the time. Smartphones didn't exist in their current form and neither did tablets. Microsoft did pretty much have a monopoly on internet access. Now no one has a monopoly, not even Google.
    Last edited by ADGrant; 01-24-15 at 09:13 PM. Reason: typo
    Cynycl likes this.
    01-24-15 08:30 PM
  11. DaSchwantz's Avatar
    It the forcing part that's at issue.

    The fact that these apps aren't available to BlackBerry because they marginalized themselves in the market by their own mismanagement and dearth of advertising and now the successful competition should be FORCED to give them what they haven't earned.

    Its the premise that a massive corporation with billions in cash somehow has been discriminated against by the very entities they are competing against that boggle the rational mind. John Chen .... like many others in business and politics need to consider the ludicrous statements they make to the media. Let alone to Congress.
    Re: forcing...yeah true. But would anyone aside from Apple or Google really care if the costs for the html5 version had to be subsidized by Apple and or Google as part of a new legislative proposal? Not gonna happen, I know (because US politics are beholden to big money), but still, what's wrong with an idea like that?

    Re: BBRY history...yeah but that has nothing to do with Chen himself. He's turning that culture on its head, as anyone can plainly see.

    Re: BBRY as a 'massive corporation with billions of dollars being discriminated against'. Well, not exactly massive anymore, and until the convertible, it wasn't even $2 billion, and a huge burn to boot. You have to ask yourself why Chen named Netflix by name, if he didn't have proof ready to pull out in court. Why does Netflix have an app for every game player, disc player and smart TV under the sun but no BlackBerry App and no html5 app? The most likely answer is that they've been paid a lot of money by someone not to. Fair? Sure, why not. But it's also fair to call out the hypocrisy of Netflix to the Senate. Not sure why people don't see this.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by DaSchwantz; 01-24-15 at 09:45 PM.
    3MIKE likes this.
    01-24-15 08:33 PM
  12. donnation's Avatar
    I have a simple question. Why is everyone 100% certain that Chen is talking about 'forcing' devs to produce multiple native versions for all various OSs versus an approach that forces at least a single simplified Web version with equivalent functionality using html5? His exact words are:

    "All wireless broadband customers must have the ability to access any lawful applications and content they choose, and applications/content providers must be prohibited from discriminating based on the customer’s mobile operating system."

    It's amazing how quickly the mockery volume level went to 11, yet everybody is mocking things he didn't actually say. They're also completely ignoring his comments on carrier locking, reclassification, etc.

    Posted via CB10
    Does it matter? Either way you slice it he's still saying that it should be opened up because its not fair that Blackberry doesn't have it. Whether or not he wants the app or the simplified web version with full functionality, its up to the dev to make that decision, not for someone to make it for them because Chen doesn't think its fair. You're forgetting his comment on BBM and iMessage as well that only made his argument seem worse.
    Cynycl, ADGrant, MikeX74 and 1 others like this.
    01-24-15 08:34 PM
  13. Cynycl's Avatar
    I am not sure about that. I think Windows has about 95% of the US market in PCs at the time. Smartphones didn't exist in their current form and neither did tablets. Microsoft did pretty much have a monopoly on internet access. Now no one has a monopoly, not even Google.
    They made a product everyone bought. Yes it was a monopoly but I still fail to see how they achieved that status illegally.

    Now that said.....I agree the landscape is better since it was opened up. Just not so certain there was a legal, not a moral, basis for doing so.

    But that's another thread
    01-24-15 08:48 PM
  14. Cynycl's Avatar
    Re: forcing...yeah true. But would anyone aside from Apple or Google really care if the costs for the html5 version had to be subsidized by Apple and or Google as part of a new legislative proposal? Not gonna happen, I know (because US politics are beholden to big money), but still, what's wrong with an idea like that?

    Re: BBRY history...yeah but that has nothing to do with Chen himself. He's turning that culture on its head, as anyone can plainly see.

    Re: BBRY as a 'massive corporation with billions of dollars being discriminated against'. Well, not exactly massive anymore, and until the convertible, it wasn't even $2 billion, and a huge burn to boot. You have to ask yourself why Chen named Netflix by name, if he didn't have proof ready to pull out in court. Why does Netflix have an app for every game player, disc player and smart TV under the sun but no BlackBerry App and no html5 app? The most likely answer is that they've been paid a lot of money by someone not too. Fair? Sure, why not. But it's also fair to call out the hypocrisy if Netflix to the Senate. Not sure why people don't see this.

    Posted via CB10
    Why should any company other than the ones that would benefit from it have to subsidize that. I'm sure Google, Amazon, Netflix,...well maybe not Apple would be happy to sell whatever they have to BlackBerry. BlackBerry just doesn't like the asking price.
    01-24-15 08:52 PM
  15. ADGrant's Avatar
    They made a product everyone bought. Yes it was a monopoly but I still fail to see how they achieved that status illegally.

    Now that said.....I agree the landscape is better since it was opened up. Just not so certain there was a legal, not a moral, basis for doing so.

    But that's another thread
    The issue wasn't how they achieved their monopoly status, the issue is what they did once they had monopoly status. Monopolies have to be careful not to abuse their monopoly status or they risk breaking anti-trust laws.
    Cynycl likes this.
    01-24-15 09:18 PM
  16. ADGrant's Avatar
    Re: forcing...yeah true. But would anyone aside from Apple or Google really care if the costs for the html5 version had to be subsidized by Apple and or Google as part of a new legislative proposal? Not gonna happen, I know (because US politics are beholden to big money), but still, what's wrong with an idea like that?
    Such a law would discriminate against Apple and Google and probably be an unconstitutional Bill of Attainder (see Article 1 Section 9 of the US Constitution).

    As you say "Not gonna happen".
    jmr1015 likes this.
    01-24-15 09:22 PM
  17. Shuswap's Avatar
    I have a simple question. Why is everyone 100% certain that Chen is talking about 'forcing' devs to produce multiple native versions for all various OSs versus an approach that forces at least a single simplified Web version with equivalent functionality using html5? His exact words are:

    "All wireless broadband customers must have the ability to access any lawful applications and content they choose, and applications/content providers must be prohibited from discriminating based on the customer’s mobile operating system."

    It's amazing how quickly the mockery volume level went to 11, yet everybody is mocking things he didn't actually say. They're also completely ignoring his comments on carrier locking, reclassification, etc.

    Posted via CB10
    The problem is not the people making the comments. It's Chen's lack of clarity. He could have specified what he meant, but failed to do so.

    Here's the problem: if you're a late-comer, you have to develop an OS that does something new that everyone wants and no one else can provide.

    Think of it this way: when the iPhone was first released it had no apps. All of the developers were building apps for Palm and Windows Mobile. But it didn't matter. Large numbers of people wanted an iPhone because the hardware and software worked in a new (and for some users, better) way. It didn't matter that there were no apps, and no app store for at least a year. It didn't even matter that you couldn't cut and paste or sync PIM data.

    So if you want market share and apps, build a better system -- not just a better variation of what's already out there -- a much better system. For apple, as far as I can see, the big differences were the BSD-based OS, webkit browser and the capacitive touchscreen -- coupled with the ability to migrate over all your music from iTunes.

    By the way, for those who may want to suggest that I'm an iFan, I've never owned an iPhone (Palm and BlackBerry).
    01-24-15 09:28 PM
  18. DaSchwantz's Avatar
    Such a law would discriminate against Apple and Google and probably be an unconstitutional Bill of Attainder (see Article 1 Section 9 of the US Constitution).

    As you say "Not gonna happen".
    It would have to be a settled arrangement as a 'lesser evil' under anti-monopoly legislation. These companies are forced to pay all the time for monopolistic behavior, but lately it seems, only in the EU...hmmm...wonder which politicians didn't receive their campaign donations last year...

    Posted via CB10
    3MIKE likes this.
    01-24-15 09:34 PM
  19. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Do you think android OS is better than BlackBerry OS? If so, what makes it better? I don't think so. And many here will say the same.

    Posted via CB10
    I agree BB10 is better unless you need certain apps that are only available on Google. I do not think they can sell 10 million BlackBerry 10 devices based on their limited ecosystem.
    01-24-15 09:37 PM
  20. DaSchwantz's Avatar
    The problem is not the people making the comments. It's Chen's lack of clarity. He could have specified what he meant, but failed to do so.
    The problem is on both sides, but what I'm trying to point out isn't Chen's lack of clarity (and yes he should have been more clear), I'm trying to point out how EVERY single article twisted his actual words in order to ridicule him, and not one actually seemed to try to engage his comments in an intelligent manner.

    I agree on all your other points, but again, ancient history.

    Posted via CB10
    01-24-15 09:42 PM
  21. Hobbes2099's Avatar
    Happy to see the general reaction to Chen's blunder.

    This isn't peewee football, not everyone "gets to play".

    You want big names on your store? Spend (more) money. Hire a team that does nothing else but license apps and pay Android/iOS --> HTML5 ports.

    You don't whine your ecosystem into popularity.

    Sent from my Find7 using Tapatalk
    Cynycl likes this.
    01-24-15 10:14 PM
  22. DaSchwantz's Avatar
    Happy to see the general reaction to Chen's blunder.

    This isn't peewee football, not everyone "gets to play".

    You want big names on your store? Spend (more) money. Hire a team that does nothing else but license apps and pay Android/iOS --> HTML5 ports.

    You don't whine your ecosystem into popularity.

    Sent from my Find7 using Tapatalk
    Kinda like the way the big names pay for fast lanes?

    Posted via CB10
    01-24-15 10:20 PM
  23. ADGrant's Avatar
    It would have to be a settled arrangement as a 'lesser evil' under anti-monopoly legislation. These companies are forced to pay all the time for monopolistic behavior, but lately it seems, only in the EU...hmmm...wonder which politicians didn't receive their campaign donations last year...

    Posted via CB10
    Neither Apple or Google have a monopoly in the US smartphone market. Nor do they control what other platforms third party publishers like Netflix agree to support. Even with youtube, there are clients available for BB.
    01-24-15 10:33 PM
  24. DaSchwantz's Avatar
    Nor do they control what other platforms third party publishers like Netflix agree to support.
    Are you 100% sure of this statement? Apple for example is being investigated in Canada for potential anti-competitive behavior at the carrier level...



    Posted via CB10
    3MIKE likes this.
    01-24-15 10:42 PM
  25. ADGrant's Avatar
    Are you 100% sure of this statement? Apple for example is being investigated in Canada for potential anti-competitive behavior at the carrier level...

    Posted via CB10
    Carrier agreements have nothing to do with third party app support and Canada is not the US.
    01-24-15 11:06 PM
864 ... 1819202122 ...

Similar Threads

  1. Why isn't my BBM loading or running on my BlackBerry Classic?
    By CrackBerry Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-27-15, 08:00 PM
  2. Can I get some help with sideloading on 10.3.1.2072?
    By jason18 in forum BB10 Leaked/Beta OS
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-22-15, 08:20 AM
  3. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-21-15, 04:40 PM
  4. Activating q10 on VZW
    By titussanders in forum Verizon Wireless
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-21-15, 04:34 PM
  5. 10.3 on the Z 10 ?
    By CrackBerry Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-21-15, 03:26 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD