03-07-15 08:35 PM
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  1. anon3923428's Avatar
    But the government are the bad guys, they can't possibly do anything to help us. That would be admitting defeat. I would rather lose than admit defeat. [please read the above as sarcasm]

    I'm with you Ray. There's a strong undertow making it difficult to keep swimming upstream though.

    Posted via my BlackBerry Passport
    Well that's what I feel Chen is trying to say here. Many see it differently and that's their choice but like I've said earlier in the year. They want BlackBerry patents and they don't want to pay for them. What better way than to drive it out of business.... call it far fetch but look around. The Verge, saying the BlackBerry can't compete with the competition, but after using the competition, I feel that BlackBerry Is better. It flows better and makes the most sense. It's a true multitasking device. It just flows right. I can't explain it but it does. And all these other people on crackberry.com that continues to bash BlackBerry. Why would they do that on a BlackBerry site? Food for thought maybe.....

    Posted via CB10
    01-23-15 09:00 PM
  2. jmr1015's Avatar
    It's quite obvious that you guys don't see the point. I've already made the point just as Chen wrote it.

    Posted via CB10

    I think everyone sees the point. It's just a dumb point... and most people, both the people here and in the media, are calling it like they see it.
    Maxxxpower likes this.
    01-23-15 09:06 PM
  3. TheBirdDog's Avatar
    I think everyone sees the point. It's just a dumb point... and most people, both the people here and in the media, are calling it like they see it.
    Oh, wait! The media is bashing Chen and BlackBerry, too? Well, I change my mind then: Chen's clearly insane! If there's one thing I hate more than being wrong, it's disagreeing with the media.

    And, just because I wanted a fresh take on the subject, I had a look over at the iMore site on the same subject to see what they had to say on the subject. Sure there are differing opinions as there should be in any healthy discussion. Interestingly though, I got the feeling there were more people over there who were actually open to the idea and less critical of Chen about it.
    http://m.imore.com/blackberry-ceo-ca...y-imessage-all

    Posted via my BlackBerry Passport
    3MIKE likes this.
    01-23-15 09:23 PM
  4. jmr1015's Avatar
    Oh, wait! The media is bashing Chen and BlackBerry, too? Well, I change my mind then: Chen's clearly insane! If there's one thing I hate more than being wrong, it's disagreeing with the media.

    And, just because I wanted a fresh take on the subject, I had a look over at the iMore site on the same subject to see what they had to say on the subject. Sure there are differing opinions as there should be in any healthy discussion. Interestingly though, I got the feeling there were more people over there who were actually open to the idea and less critical of Chen about it.
    BlackBerry CEO calls for 'app neutrality', iMessage for all! | iMore

    Posted via my BlackBerry Passport
    No one is saying you have to agree with the media. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. There are people alive today that still think the Earth is flat, and that the sun orbits round the Earth. More power to them, and to you sir.

    Reading through those comments top to bottom, I get the same impressions from those posters as we are getting in this thread... and this point made by the author of the article sums things up nicely:

    "...there's a huge difference between fair and equal transport of content and information and the forced production of that content. iMessage and BBM should both have equal access to the internet, but Apple should no more be forced to make iMessage for BlackBerry than McDonalds should be forced to make Big Macs for Burger King or Joss Whedon should be forced to make a Justice League movie for Warners, or BlackBerry should be forced to make BBM for Tizen.

    It really does suck that Netflix isn't available as a native app for BB10 and that Google refuses to make most of their apps for Windows Phone, but the idea of 'app neutrality' doesn't fix that..."


    Apps don't just fall out of the sky or grow on trees. They're not maintained and optimized by magical elves that crawl out from under the bed at night. Forcing app developers to support a platform, any platform, that they do not want to is a ridiculous notion.
    Last edited by jmr1015; 01-23-15 at 10:13 PM.
    01-23-15 10:02 PM
  5. ADGrant's Avatar
    Oh, wait! The media is bashing Chen and BlackBerry, too? Well, I change my mind then: Chen's clearly insane! If there's one thing I hate more than being wrong, it's disagreeing with the media.

    And, just because I wanted a fresh take on the subject, I had a look over at the iMore site on the same subject to see what they had to say on the subject. Sure there are differing opinions as there should be in any healthy discussion. Interestingly though, I got the feeling there were more people over there who were actually open to the idea and less critical of Chen about it.
    BlackBerry CEO calls for 'app neutrality', iMessage for all! | iMore

    Posted via my BlackBerry Passport
    I didn't see more openness to the idea though I agree they weren't as critical of Chen. Perhaps they don't know who he is (or don't care). On this forum he is often regarded as a savior figure who can do no wrong. That might explain the strong reaction when he really screws up.
    reeneebob likes this.
    01-23-15 10:05 PM
  6. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Oh, wait! The media is bashing Chen and BlackBerry, too? Well, I change my mind then: Chen's clearly insane! If there's one thing I hate more than being wrong, it's disagreeing with the media.

    And, just because I wanted a fresh take on the subject, I had a look over at the iMore site on the same subject to see what they had to say on the subject. Sure there are differing opinions as there should be in any healthy discussion. Interestingly though, I got the feeling there were more people over there who were actually open to the idea and less critical of Chen about it.
    BlackBerry CEO calls for 'app neutrality', iMessage for all! | iMore

    Posted via my BlackBerry Passport
    You got that from that thread? Outside CB vet xBurk, they seem resoundingly scornful.
    01-23-15 10:16 PM
  7. tchocky77's Avatar
    Lol people here think this would mean building native apps for everyone when it could easily be up to the developer to build native apps for iOS and Android and build 1 other version for all others. This is not a crazy idea when you think about it. Except for proprietary things like imessage should stay on iOS. It's not like Apple supports xcode for Windows.

    Posted via CB10
    If I put my blood sweat and tears into an app and I determine that its best done in C#, who are you to tell me that I HAVE to code it in something it wasn't conceived to be written in just so it works on your marginal operating system?

    There is no rational way to make that argument.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    marty314, mornhavon and xandermac like this.
    01-23-15 10:29 PM
  8. tchocky77's Avatar
    So would a law passed that is similar to what JC is asking prevent such a thing?

    Posted via CB10
    It wouldn't matter, because no legislature on earth with the faintest grasp of the technology involved would even consider such a thing.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    01-23-15 10:45 PM
  9. tchocky77's Avatar
    Some of these points are fine, however, why shouldn't Netflix be on the Amazon app store?

    Why shouldn't we have access to the Google Play Store itself? It's just a store afterall, even if not a physical one. It's like saying that you won't let certain patrons into your store based on some other sort of discrimination. I am not 100 percent sure of this because I didn't personally try to troubleshoot it for him, but my brother was unable to get the Amazon App store on his Android device, likely because it was somehow blocked by Google. Perhaps there is a workaround that he can use but he shouldn't have to. Just like BlackBerry shouldn't have to use workarounds to access content.

    The developers really don't have to do anything if this mandate goes through. It's targeting the app 'providers' not the developers. Google and Apple are the ones limiting the distribution of their content, not the developers. Also, there is no reason that apps based on HTML5 would not be available to everyone. This is where things were always going and someone had to throw the first stone. I respect BlackBerry's man in charge for bringing more attention to it.

    John Chen is a very smart man and this letter was not just written on a drunken whimsy. He is pointing to a direction that things need to head towards, if we are going to embrace the connected world that we live in. I'm sure that he expected criticism from it. But he acted like a true leader and did something no one else would have done. Perhaps something that a lot of people don't understand his reasoning for. All the more respect to him for it.

    The answer is not that everyone should have an iPhone. Those that want one should be allowed one, those that want something different, should equally be allowed that. And no one should be discriminated on based on their choice. He's not asking that the government help BlackBerry. He's trying to shine a light on an issue that needs attention if we hope to have a level playing field for everyone. A more successful capitalism, if you will... A system with more freedom (including freedom of choice) and less discrimination than our current state of democracy, which is run by corporate dictators, allows for.

    Posted via my BlackBerry Passport
    The fact that Blackberry cannot succeed in the capitalism we have does not justify a new kind.

    There's an awful lot of people on this thread that ha e no understanding of what the word "discrimination" means.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Cynycl and red_devil_fan_1999 like this.
    01-23-15 11:13 PM
  10. reeneebob's Avatar
    Oh, wait! The media is bashing Chen and BlackBerry, too? Well, I change my mind then: Chen's clearly insane! If there's one thing I hate more than being wrong, it's disagreeing with the media.

    And, just because I wanted a fresh take on the subject, I had a look over at the iMore site on the same subject to see what they had to say on the subject. Sure there are differing opinions as there should be in any healthy discussion. Interestingly though, I got the feeling there were more people over there who were actually open to the idea and less critical of Chen about it.
    http://m.imore.com/blackberry-ceo-ca...y-imessage-all

    Posted via my BlackBerry Passport
    Maybe I didn't read the same article and comments, because they seem to feel it's ridiculous as well.


    Sent from my iPad Air using Tapatalk
    01-23-15 11:22 PM
  11. tchocky77's Avatar
    To reiterate,...EMPHATICALLY,....no Netflix on your cellphone does not equate with being forced to sit at the back of the bus.

    Let's be real here.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    01-23-15 11:29 PM
  12. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    I'm... Flabbergasted, at the Chen-apologists...

    http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2...nk7bo1_400.gif
    Ditto that...

    Posted via CB10
    ADGrant likes this.
    01-23-15 11:43 PM
  13. donnation's Avatar
    Oh, wait! The media is bashing Chen and BlackBerry, too? Well, I change my mind then: Chen's clearly insane! If there's one thing I hate more than being wrong, it's disagreeing with the media.

    And, just because I wanted a fresh take on the subject, I had a look over at the iMore site on the same subject to see what they had to say on the subject. Sure there are differing opinions as there should be in any healthy discussion. Interestingly though, I got the feeling there were more people over there who were actually open to the idea and less critical of Chen about it.
    BlackBerry CEO calls for 'app neutrality', iMessage for all! | iMore

    Posted via my BlackBerry Passport
    Lol, the only people giving it that "interesting take" are the people from Crackberry posting on iMore. Nothing wrong with it but the vast majority of the comments are the same comments being made here in this thread.
    01-23-15 11:46 PM
  14. Have_a_nice_day's Avatar
    Its FAR FAR too much to ask. Apple spent many millions or dollars developing iMessage. Blackberry did nothing to create it. Why should they be allowed to use it to sell phones?

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Nobody said Apple (or any other company) should open up (their API's) for free. If BlackBerry thinks it is worth their money to create an iMessage app for bb10 then they should be able to (for the right price).

    I'm just not a fan of protectionism. BlackBerry hasn't behaved/isn't behaving any better then the others in this respect. How long did they sat on BBM? Too long because now it is dead.

    Cannot choose between glas or plastic keyboard
    Last edited by Have_a_nice_day; 01-24-15 at 12:50 AM.
    donnation likes this.
    01-24-15 12:37 AM
  15. xBURK's Avatar
    I'm not sure if Chen meant that companies should be forced to make their apps available to everyone, but rather if a company such as BlackBerry had the ability to produce the app themselves, they would be able to do it under a new law?

    Unfortunately, the damage has been done. His editor could have made 100 drafts and it still would have come across wrong.

    I've always liked Chen's openness, but I have to agree with many on here. This was not the time to be so frank.


    'BB POWERED' C001C1D66
    01-24-15 01:05 AM
  16. anon3923428's Avatar
    To reiterate,...EMPHATICALLY,....no Netflix on your cellphone does not equate with being forced to sit at the back of the bus.

    Let's be real here.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    But you are sitting in the back because it's not available. Not even through streaming from the browser which netflix could allow. But it's not about netflix. Netflix was an example. It's about the attitude of perception with developers and the reasoning behind why these apps aren't on BlackBerry. No device will be able to compete in this market and get substantial market shares with out the apps the the consumer is looking for. That's the whole point of the thread, that s the whole point Chen is trying to make. Had developers created the apps for BlackBerry, BlackBerry wouldn't be in the position it is today. The mindset was, we will see how well BlackBerry fairs before we build an app for it but if those apps aren't available, many won't buy the phone. So how can BlackBerry survive without having those apps? By installing the Android Runtime on BlackBerry devices.

    Posted via CB10
    01-24-15 02:48 AM
  17. anon3923428's Avatar
    Ditto that...

    Posted via CB10
    Who's apologizing for Chen here? I'm not, I agree with him. It's not an apology. Had those apps been available for BlackBerry, BlackBerry would have done better in this market hands down. People want their apps and if those apps are not available on a particular platform, they will go to the platform where those particular apps are available. That's why BlackBerry had no choice but to install androids run time to work on BlackBerry. They needed those "in the crowd apps" as I call it or they would have been out of the game long ago.

    Posted via CB10
    01-24-15 02:54 AM
  18. jmr1015's Avatar
    I'm not sure if Chen meant that companies should be forced to make their apps available to everyone, but rather if a company such as BlackBerry had the ability to produce the app themselves, they would be able to do it under a new law?

    Unfortunately, the damage has been done. His editor could have made 100 drafts and it still would have come across wrong.

    I've always liked Chen's openness, but I have to agree with many on here. This was not the time to be so frank.


    'BB POWERED' C001C1D66
    So you think Chen didn't mean he wants to force developers to make their apps compatible for all devices themselves at their own costs, against their will... But rather, he wants to force developers to hand over the legal rights to their apps, free of costs and against their will... so other companies can make copies to run on their own platforms? Copies that the original developers would have little to no end control over the quality of the final product unless they want to invest the time and money porting and maintaining the app themselves, rather than let some other company poorly copy their work and pass it off as official...?

    In the case of a paid app, be it $1 or $10 or whatever, who would the money go to? The original app creator? Or the company that created the copy? If the original creator gets the money, what sort of return on investment does the app copier look forward to? You think BlackBerry would put in the sort of money necessary to make copies of all the mainstream apps they want, and update and maintain them, with no hopes of making money on it? On the other hand, if the copier gets the money, you're basically pirating the app. You're stealing money from the original creator.

    Sorry, but there is pretty much no way you can slice this particular pie to make it appear appetizing.
    01-24-15 03:36 AM
  19. jmr1015's Avatar
    But you are sitting in the back because it's not available. Not even through streaming from the browser which netflix could allow. But it's not about netflix. Netflix was an example. It's about the attitude of perception with developers and the reasoning behind why these apps aren't on BlackBerry. No device will be able to compete in this market and get substantial market shares with out the apps the the consumer is looking for. That's the whole point of the thread, that s the whole point Chen is trying to make. Had developers created the apps for BlackBerry, BlackBerry wouldn't be in the position it is today. The mindset was, we will see how well BlackBerry fairs before we build an app for it but if those apps aren't available, many won't buy the phone. So how can BlackBerry survive without having those apps? By installing the Android Runtime on BlackBerry devices.

    Posted via CB10
    If we're going to use a "back of the bus" analogy... Yes, BlackBerry is riding in the back of the bus. But no one forced them to. They were late to get on, and all the good seats are taken.

    BB10 was 5 years late to the modern OS war. iPhone and Android had half a decade head start building their ecosystem. BlackBerry was slow to react to the changing face of mobile. Who's fault is that? Maybe if BB10 came out in 2008 or 2009, developers would have probably taken a more serious look at making apps for BlackBerry. But by 2013? Developers could already sell to a huge portion of the smartphone market by developing for just two platforms. Why take on the extra costs and risks to develop for BB10? To be nice?
    01-24-15 04:06 AM
  20. reeneebob's Avatar
    The use of the back of the bus analogy is downright insulting.

    Tapatalked from my iPhone 6+ primary line, my iPad Air 4G, my backup Nexus 5 or my work issued Xperia Z3C.
    01-24-15 06:30 AM
  21. MmmHmm's Avatar
    The use of the back of the bus analogy is downright insulting.

    Tapatalked from my iPhone 6+ primary line, my iPad Air 4G, my backup Nexus 5 or my work issued Xperia Z3C.
    Extremely insulting. A lack of major native BB10 apps is not a civil rights issue. Incidentally, it's not a net neutrality issue either.
    01-24-15 07:45 AM
  22. Carrtman's Avatar
    You know how this thing was called before dictation !

    If people don't want to invest time money and passion into a small system so be it.

    But hey if Chen covers all their costs then maybe

    All this does is getting developers pissed of talk about stupid
    01-24-15 07:53 AM
  23. z10Jobe's Avatar
    Well that's what I feel Chen is trying to say here. Many see it differently and that's their choice but like I've said earlier in the year. They want BlackBerry patents and they don't want to pay for them. What better way than to drive it out of business.... call it far fetch but look around. The Verge, saying the BlackBerry can't compete with the competition, but after using the competition, I feel that BlackBerry Is better. It flows better and makes the most sense. It's a true multitasking device. It just flows right. I can't explain it but it does. And all these other people on crackberry.com that continues to bash BlackBerry. Why would they do that on a BlackBerry site? Food for thought maybe.....

    Posted via CB10
    They likely bash BlackBerry on this site because either they are generally unhappy people with the anonymity of the Internet at their beck and call or, alternatively, have other short sighted, short minded, agendas that they are taking stock of.

    Occasional and warranted critical comments are welcome and actually constructive but the constant and consistent whining, complaints, and derogatory sky is falling posts from some people often sent from other devices grow weary and reeks of alternative motivation, beyond any definition of pessimism.

    In this issue, I totally understand the reasons for the Chen / BlackBerry criticisms because there is a free market out there. On the other hand, I agree with the principles that Chen was trying to eschew. No desperation there folks. I don't think that a duopoly is good for anybody. Competition is good, the market is huge and could support multiple operating systems. The rich getting richer is never good.

    Posted via CB10
    01-24-15 07:55 AM
  24. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    Had developers created the apps for BlackBerry, BlackBerry wouldn't be in the position it is today. The mindset was, we will see how well BlackBerry fairs before we build an app for it but if those apps aren't available, many won't buy the phone.
    Bullhockey.

    Blackberry used to have plenty of active developers. However, Blackberry squandered any goodwill with developers through 2009 - 2012 when they continuously failed to keep BB devices competitive in the mobile industry. BB devices failed to evolve with the industry, OS updates were buggy as hell, the development tools became a nightmare to work with, and the significant lack of backwards compatibility between OS versions, all contributed to the downfall. There were a lot of really good developers for the BB platform too, all of which who one by one got fed up with BB development and moved to Android/iOS development when they found a significant portion of their users had switched platforms and were begging them for versions on the new platforms.

    All too often, I see the Chicken & Egg comparison used on these forums. However, that's completely untrue. Blackberry used to have the egg. They just dropped and broke it.
    01-24-15 07:56 AM
  25. SeeBeeEss's Avatar
    Perspective 101: Although not perfect, my Z30 is a quality communication device that does almost everything I want or need it to do. It's not a lifestyle, not a political statement, not a religion, and not my best (or only) friend. Take a deep breath, people!
    menshawy, ADGrant and jmr1015 like this.
    01-24-15 08:05 AM
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