03-07-15 08:35 PM
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  1. DaedalusIcarusHelios's Avatar
    John Chen has posted his thoughts on Net Neutrality on Inside BlackBerry:
    Net Neutrality: No on Reclassification, Yes on Adding Content & App Providers | Inside BlackBerry

    The suggestion of an alternative to reclassifying ISPs as common carriers was previously given a few months ago, but there is now inclusion of a section about application/content neutrality that is interesting.

    Here is one particular paragraph (be sure to read the whole article):
    Unfortunately, not all content and applications providers have embraced openness and neutrality. Unlike BlackBerry, which allows iPhone users to download and use our BBM service, Apple does not allow BlackBerry or Android users to download Apples iChat messaging service. Netflix, which has forcefully advocated for carrier neutrality, has discriminated against BlackBerry customers by refusing to make its streaming movie service available to them. Many other applications providers similarly offer service only to iPhone and Android users. This dynamic has created a two-tiered wireless broadband ecosystem, in which iPhone and Android users are able to access far more content and applications than customers using devices running other operating systems. These are precisely the sort of discriminatory practices that neutrality advocates have criticized at the carrier level.
    What does everyone think about this?
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    01-21-15 04:05 PM
  2. lnichols's Avatar
    While I would like to see this happen, how likely is it that they will be able to force these companies to support BlackBerry and Windows devices?

    Posted via CB10
    01-21-15 07:36 PM
  3. Cozz4ever's Avatar
    John Chen has posted his thoughts on Net Neutrality on Inside BlackBerry:
    Net Neutrality: No on Reclassification, Yes on Adding Content & App Providers | Inside BlackBerry

    The suggestion of an alternative to reclassifying ISPs as common carriers was previously given a few months ago, but there is now inclusion of a section about application/content neutrality that is interesting.

    Here is one particular paragraph (be sure to read the whole article):


    What does everyone think about this?
    Unfortunately, the paragraph quoted has nothing to do with net neutrality. It has to do with market access and profit. If I want to sell my product, I'm going for the bigger markets = bigger returns. If I make a good enough return, I wouldn't even think about tiny markets.

    Posted via CB10
    01-21-15 07:50 PM
  4. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Unfortunately, the paragraph quoted has nothing to do with net neutrality. It has to do with market access and profit. If I want to sell my product, I'm going for the bigger markets = bigger returns. If I make a good enough return, I wouldn't even think about tiny markets.

    Posted via CB10
    I was about to post a long-winded reply, but you hit every point concisely.

    Why is BlackBerry discriminating against Tizen, Sailfish, Firefox, etc? C'mon.
    boi2012, marty314 and techvisor like this.
    01-21-15 08:03 PM
  5. MikeX74's Avatar
    To me, he comes off like a kid who's mad that other kids won't play with him. As for the "app neutrality" he wants? Not gonna happen. Generally speaking, to try and mandate that a developer(whether big or small) HAS to develop apps for platforms/OS's that he/she/they may not want to develop for is utterly insane. Devs(indies especially) spend their own money and their own time to build apps, so they should be able to decide which OS's they build apps for. My question is, would he be calling for this if BB didn't lag so far behind in quality and quantity of apps in comparison to iOS & Android? My guess would be no. As for Apple and iMessage, Apple builds its apps for its customers only and has no reason or obligation to build apps for any other platform. If, someday, iMessage goes cross-platform, or Netflix makes an apps for bb10, it should be at their choosing, not because of some government mandate.
    01-21-15 08:29 PM
  6. MobileMadness002's Avatar
    Interesting read. Personally, I think Chen is opening a new can of worms here.
    01-21-15 09:15 PM
  7. alan510's Avatar
    To me, he comes off like a kid who's mad that other kids won't play with him. As for the "app neutrality" he wants? Not gonna happen. Generally speaking, to try and mandate that a developer(whether big or small) HAS to develop apps for platforms/OS's that he/she/they may not want to develop for is utterly insane. Devs(indies especially) spend their own money and their own time to build apps, so they should be able to decide which OS's they build apps for. My question is, would he be calling for this if BB didn't lag so far behind in quality and quantity of apps in comparison to iOS & Android? My guess would be no. As for Apple and iMessage, Apple builds its apps for its customers only and has no reason or obligation to build apps for any other platform. If, someday, iMessage goes cross-platform, or Netflix makes an apps for bb10, it should be at their choosing, not because of some government mandate.
    I hear you. But this isn't the first time BlackBerry is talking about breaking down the barriers between devices. There was a BlackBerry blog not long ago about html development being central to future software creation. With the Internet of Things (look at car infotainment right now) walled off systems may not work. The debate Chen is entering is much longer term and wide ranging than short term app development. It's about long term public access to information services. At least that's another way of looking at today's blog post and his recent comments about access aqnd security.

    Posted via CB10
    01-21-15 10:00 PM
  8. DaedalusIcarusHelios's Avatar
    Sorry I didn't really add much and follow up. I only quoted the part I thought was interesting and kind of controversial as it could be interpreted in different ways.

    I don't think Apple should be forced to make iMessage for every different platform. I think the spirit of what he's saying is that apps and services should be portable using standards and not be proprietary to lock things into walled gardens. More HTML apps, open APIs, etc. There shouldn't be any reason why an Android app should not be made available to use on a BlackBerry. No artificial restrictions that keep the smaller players out.

    Posted via CB10
    Kennedy.L and 3MIKE like this.
    01-22-15 12:14 AM
  9. DaedalusIcarusHelios's Avatar
    Regarding the stuff regarding ISPs, I'm not sure how effective John's proposal is. It might work, but it's hard to say the Block C spectrum rules are effective when you can't use just that spectrum on Verizon due to the current requirements for CDMA for voice. There's no way for me to buy a Passport and use it on Verizon. Personally, I think common carrier is the way to go and how I've felt for a long time. Comcast should split into the ISP part and the content provider part, because it is such a conflict of interest. If net neutrality is fully enforced, then theoretically they could do all of that without giving their services an unfair advantage. XfinityTV could be offered for those that use a different ISP for example (obviously they'd charge for it).

    Posted via CB10
    OceanBerry likes this.
    01-22-15 12:22 AM
  10. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    One word describes Chen here...

    Whiney

    And it's NOT pretty.

    Posted via CB10
    01-22-15 12:31 AM
  11. jmr1015's Avatar
    Have government force developers to write apps for all platforms?

    01-22-15 12:43 AM
  12. tchocky77's Avatar
    This is a shockingly stupid point of view.

    Yeah. My company made crap consistently behind the competition for a long time and our customers moved on. Now developers ignore us completely. It's not fair. Make these people make apps for us!!!
    Last edited by tchocky77; 01-22-15 at 01:02 AM.
    MikeX74, boi2012, TGR1 and 14 others like this.
    01-22-15 12:51 AM
  13. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    This is a shockingly stupid point of view.

    Yeah. My company made sh!t for a long time and our customers moved on. Now developers ignore us completely. It's not fair. Make these people make apps for us!!!
    Exactly!

    This guys ego wasn't pretty when it showed through as arrogance... even less so now as a whiney loser.

    Posted via CB10
    01-22-15 12:54 AM
  14. tchocky77's Avatar
    MOREOVER,....

    I would posit BlackBerry largely did this to themselves. By allowing the Android runtime, they stabbed the few remaining REAL, TALENTED native Blackberry devs squarely in the back.

    So they moved on, and your left with a store full of city guides and crap ports of public-domain ebooks.

    Come on already.
    01-22-15 01:01 AM
  15. KISS ARMY's Avatar
    MOREOVER,....

    I would posit BlackBerry largely did this to themselves. By allowing the Android runtime, they stabbed the few remaining REAL, TALENTED native Blackberry devs squarely in the back.

    So they moved on, and your left with a store full of city guides and crap ports of public-domain ebooks.

    Come on already.
    They didn't have a choice. Perhaps you can call it a band-aid solution, but allowing the Android runtime to get the apps a lot of BlackBerry users were screaming for was absolutely necessary. As talented as the native developers are, people want Candy Crush, Instagram (I use iGrann Pro myself to support Adrian), SnapChat (I use Snap 10 to support Oliver), and other apps like Netflix. The developers for those top tier apps weren't coming. It's been 2 years since the release of BlackBerry 10, and still we are using an Android port of Skype.

    The whole point to the Amazon App Store partnership, is to get the attention of 17 year olds again. Yes, BlackBerry is focusing on the enterprise area. But they need to keep a grip on the consumer market as well. Everyone keeps getting the same response from big name developers, "give me market share, and I'll produce the app for BlackBerry."

    So while JC focuses on Enterprise, he can quietly have someone else behind closed doors work on the consumer market using the Amazon App store as a stepping stone. I've already had people tell me that if it wasn't for the Amazon app store, they would never have purchased a BlackBerry Passport.

    So is it the ideal route to go? Maybe not. Is it working? I believe it is and it will eventually blossom into Native apps of top tier app developers.

    Cheers!!

    Posted via CB10
    01-22-15 03:43 AM
  16. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    John Chen (as well as Blackberry/BB10) are being severely chastised across the internet for these remarks. Really bad PR misstep on Chen's part.
    TGR1, mikeo007, reeneebob and 3 others like this.
    01-22-15 04:23 AM
  17. docfreed's Avatar
    It's the act of a desperate man. Chen has squandered any possible chance of making BB a player:
    He closed down leaks thereby losing a large talented group of bata testers and losing a large body of free research.
    He thinks that by playing to enterprise he can resurrect former glory - no way because enterprise can no longer trust
    BB - would you trust a multi-billion dollar enterprise's communications to BB given their past 5-year history?
    He needs to be muzzled or fired - just another false hero chosen by a moronic Board of Directors (the folks who brought you Heins and kept the two co-clowns far too long).
    01-22-15 05:02 AM
  18. anon1727506's Avatar
    SAD....... Up till now Chen came off as a smart man.... desperation makes us do and say crazy things.
    01-22-15 07:27 AM
  19. GoJaysGo's Avatar
    Chen keeps coming off as a baby. Upset that no one wants to play with him. There are a ton of big name apps (Netflix & Instagram to name two) that don't have Native BB10 apps. What about Microsoft Office, how about that one. The problem is very simple. BlackBerry HAD to develop BBM for iOS and Android (where is BBM for Windows?) so they could sell you their MDM as being cross platform. Android and Apple don't have to rely on anything BlackBerry for their platforms to be a success. If it wasn't for the fact that BlackBerry HAD to include Android apps on their devices. BlackBerry as you know it, would no longer be around.

    When you look at the recent CES all the neat new hardware devices, like drones, clock radio docks. I didn't see one that supported BlackBerry. Is Chen going after them as well. Maybe Chen will call out iHome for not making a clock with a BlackBerry dock and app to support it...

    Someone should send Chen a baby pacifier to sooth him at night when he's crying about the big boys not wanting to play with him...

    Desperate times call for desperate measures. First iPhone trade in, now this... what's next?

    John Chen's thoughts on Net Neutrality-baby-pacifier-toxic-endalldisease-300x200.jpg
    Last edited by GoJaysGo; 01-22-15 at 12:45 PM.
    01-22-15 08:08 AM
  20. johnenglish's Avatar
    Hmmm yes, very nice. The government should extend the law to force Microsoft to make Halo for the Playstation, Wii, and Colecovision.
    jmr1015, AlexXF and Hobbes2099 like this.
    01-22-15 09:35 AM
  21. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    I won't comment yet on my opinion about the "App Neutrality" concept itself until I've had some time to drink some coffee and form a cogent response (I'm still wrapping my head around the idea that Chen is serious about it).

    But what I will say though, is that attaching it to the "Net Neutrality" movement was a very poor choice. If Chen is indeed serious about it, he should have pushed it as an idea completely isolated and separate from Net Neutrality. It's already been an agonizingly difficult task getting government to act on Net Neutrality, the last thing we need is something unnecessarily added to muddy the waters making it even more difficult.
    TGR1, boi2012, MikeX74 and 7 others like this.
    01-22-15 09:45 AM
  22. Soulstream's Avatar
    I think it's crap. Why should developers have to code for every platform with very little return. There are lots of under 1% market share OS: firefoxOS, jolla, tizen(in the future). Who will pay developers for developing for such platforms?

    And if I myself develop a phones OS with 1 user (me), could I force app developers to build every app for just my phone?
    01-22-15 09:48 AM
  23. johnenglish's Avatar
    I'm going to create a brand new phone OS in my garage and then everyone will be forced to write apps for it.
    01-22-15 09:54 AM
  24. yessuz's Avatar
    01-22-15 09:55 AM
  25. Gatmyer's Avatar
    This is precisely why I do not use Apple computers. Sure Apple has a lot of apps but when I comes to actual useful programs I use for work they are down right useless.

    I see most people in this thread think this is a bad idea. But I am a potential apple user but I absolutely can not use their hardware because there ecosystem sucks compared to PC!

    Posted via CB10
    3MIKE likes this.
    01-22-15 10:05 AM
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