06-05-15 12:03 PM
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  1. KemKev's Avatar
    Regardless of who is at fault, it is inexcusable that 10.3.1 has not been officially released in the USA as yet.
    Agreed. But.....

    AT&T just rolled out Lollipop for the Galaxy S5 last month - a full 5 months after it was released.

    Samsung has a lot more pull than BlackBerry and they suffer from the same problem.
    I hear you on that. There is no way that carriers should be holding users "hostage" and that too is inexcusable.
    techvisor likes this.
    05-28-15 03:03 AM
  2. myfiremanishuge's Avatar
    My European friend's been using the official 10.3.1 for months already, what gives? Other than companies blaming each other, creating fall outs and then coming back together again. The customer's always been hit hard, for no reason. (not limited to BB)

    I've been "watching" the rumors since last year, and the previous year for major improvements to BB10.

    There's been some great additions and subtractions from BB10 10.1 to 10.3, there should be a choice in the matter if you'd like to update to 10.3.1's features in my opinion.
    05-28-15 04:24 AM
  3. Cozz4ever's Avatar
    No, really, it isn't. At the end of the day, it's up to the carriers to push it out unless he wants to pee in their cornflakes and bypass them, which probably isn't the best idea. Especially now that carrier relations are once again improving. All he can do is inquire and see of they'll get their heads out their butts.
    And that's Blackberry's fault. It's funny how Apple can get away by pushing any OS they want while giving the middle finger to carriers while Blackberry can't. Blackberry put themselves in this position. And by leaving consumer products in the back burner for the last two years, only made things worse with carriers.

    So umm yeah... Chen (among others) needs to get the blame here.

    And what's the big deal if Blackberry bypasses carriers for updates? No seriously- what would happen? Verizon doesn't care for Blackberry anymore. Verizon knows that business's are moving away from Blackberry so it doesn't really need to depend of Blackberry. Verizon has been burned by Blackberry more than once. I'm pretty sure Verizon would love to drop off Blackberry all together if they could if it weren't for so many commercial accounts still using Blackberry.

    It's Chen's fault for not forcing updates. I would have given carriers X amount of months for them to check any new update and make changes to any future OS. Then push updates directly through software regardless if carriers complied or not. Next time around...I'll bet the farm they'll comply.

    So stop acting like Blackberry doesn't have control over this.
    05-28-15 07:57 AM
  4. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    And that's Blackberry's fault. It's funny how Apple can get away by pushing any OS they want while giving the middle finger to carriers while Blackberry can't. Blackberry put themselves in this position. And by leaving consumer products in the back burner for the last two years, only made things worse with carriers.

    So umm yeah... Chen (among others) needs to get the blame here.

    And what's the big deal if Blackberry bypasses carriers for updates? No seriously- what would happen? Verizon doesn't care for Blackberry anymore. Verizon knows that business's are moving away from Blackberry so it doesn't really need to depend of Blackberry. Verizon has been burned by Blackberry more than once. I'm pretty sure Verizon would love to drop off Blackberry all together if they could if it weren't for so many commercial accounts still using Blackberry.

    It's Chen's fault for not forcing updates. I would have given carriers X amount of months for them to check any new update and make changes to any future OS. Then push updates directly through software regardless if carriers complied or not. Next time around...I'll bet the farm they'll comply.

    So stop acting like Blackberry doesn't have control over this.
    It's all in the contracts.... if BlackBerry signed some distribution contract that states any updates have to be approved by Carrier before it's release to end users, then BlackBerry bypassing the Carrier would be in breach of that contract. Notably any cost associated with the support of that update - plus what ever else they wanted to stick BlackBerry with could be very expensive for Chen. BlackBerry has to play by the rules they agreed too.

    And unfortunately BlackBerry is so desperate to have carriers on board with their products, they aren't going to rock the boat and "ask" for changes like Apple did. Ten years ago BlackBerry could have asked for anything and gotten it, they WERE the smartphone. But today AT&T got BlackBerry to redesign the Passport if they were going to carry it. And which carriers in the US have admitted they will even carry the LEAP?
    05-28-15 08:38 AM
  5. conite's Avatar
    And that's Blackberry's fault. It's funny how Apple can get away by pushing any OS they want while giving the middle finger to carriers while Blackberry can't. Blackberry put themselves in this position.
    So what do you say about my Samsung example from above? Is Samsung equally inept? (recap: AT&T took 5 months to release Lollipop to Galaxy S5)

    BlackBerry is a small company and cannot possibly provide front line support to millions of users, nor provide the necessary distribution channels. Hence the contractual arrangements.

    They are working hard to make improvements with shopBlackberry and Amazon direct sales and OS updates. I'm not sure what else you could expect.

    Don't forget, a lot of corporations have direct relationships with carriers for hardware - the very market BlackBerry is trying to hang on to. BlackBerry can't burn their bridges with those carriers.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.680
    Last edited by conite; 05-28-15 at 10:59 AM.
    05-28-15 08:50 AM
  6. Denise in Los Angeles's Avatar
    I really didn't start this thread to be another in a series of "Blame Chen" fests that keep taking over threads here.

    What I thought was interesting was that Chen is actually aware of problems with OS updates not being pushed by the carriers, and that he wants to actually speak to the US consumers about changing the system somehow. I guess he is trying something... but carry on blaming him about the past if that helps you out.
    05-28-15 10:05 AM
  7. onlybuggin's Avatar
    It's all in the contracts.... if BlackBerry signed some distribution contract that states any updates have to be approved by Carrier before it's release to end users, then BlackBerry bypassing the Carrier would be in breach of that contract. Notably any cost associated with the support of that update - plus what ever else they wanted to stick BlackBerry with could be very expensive for Chen. BlackBerry has to play by the rules they agreed too.

    And unfortunately BlackBerry is so desperate to have carriers on board with their products, they aren't going to rock the boat and "ask" for changes like Apple did. Ten years ago BlackBerry could have asked for anything and gotten it, they WERE the smartphone. But today AT&T got BlackBerry to redesign the Passport if they were going to carry it. And which carriers in the US have admitted they will even carry the LEAP?
    For sure it's in the contracts. Shame on any company who signs such a one sided contract. For sure carriers,should have the opportunity to clear a software release for their network but double shame on a manufacturer that doesn't define the time allowed for clearing. If the carrier doesn't clear it in enough time then it's pushed direct from BlackBerry. The manufacturer can not be only one at risk of being in breach of contract. It would only take the carriers a few times of missing the opportunities to add their bloat ware before they start to quickly review and push through updates.


    Posted via CB10
    05-28-15 10:28 AM
  8. onlybuggin's Avatar
    What's worse than missing the software update, is not getting the app updates that are built for later os's


    Posted via CB10
    05-28-15 10:30 AM
  9. WaterTower's Avatar
    That does make sense...thanks for the clarification

    Posted via CB10
    05-28-15 10:31 AM
  10. conite's Avatar
    For sure it's in the contracts. Shame on any company who signs such a one sided contract. For sure carriers,should have the opportunity to clear a software release for their network but double shame on a manufacturer that doesn't define the time allowed for clearing. If the carrier doesn't clear it in enough time then it's pushed direct from BlackBerry. The manufacturer can not be only one at risk of being in breach of contract. It would only take the carriers a few times of missing the opportunities to add their bloat ware before they start to quickly review and push through updates.


    Posted via CB10
    One sided?! BlackBerry needs the carriers 10x more than the carriers need BlackBerry. Good luck with that negotiation. Samsung couldn't do it either and its situation is almost reversed.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.680
    Coachbulldog likes this.
    05-28-15 11:09 AM
  11. joeldf's Avatar
    Even when BlackBerry ruled, the carriers, at least in the US, still had the upper hand. They maintained all out control going back to the early brick cell phone days. One example, AT&T was already blocking BlackBerry Maps for all BlackBerry phones back in '07 just before the iPhone even first debuted. AT&T wanted to push their own TeleNav app on its users. That finally stopped sometime around 2011 or 12 when BBMaps magically appeared on all AT&T BlackBerry phones one day - at least for those that hadn't already loaded the workaround file to force it back.

    Apple only had the upper hand because they came in with a desired product out the gate. They could negotiate their terms. BlackBerry already had their terms dictated to them when they were just starting out. Once one side gets control, they don't want to give it up. It seems that AT&T (and Cingular before they were swallowed up by AT&T) had a big thumb on BlackBerry for their entire existence.

    Posted via CB10
    techvisor likes this.
    05-28-15 11:51 AM
  12. Thachoc1's Avatar
    wow, I thought 10.3.1 was out already. Tells ya how long I've been on it. lol.
    05-28-15 12:12 PM
  13. Soapm's Avatar
    wow, I thought 10.3.1 was out already. Tells ya how long I've been on it. lol.
    I'm running stock OS on TMO and I have 10.3.1.1779/2576...
    05-28-15 12:22 PM
  14. Cozz4ever's Avatar
    It's all in the contracts.... if BlackBerry signed some distribution contract that states any updates have to be approved by Carrier before it's release to end users, then BlackBerry bypassing the Carrier would be in breach of that contract. Notably any cost associated with the support of that update - plus what ever else they wanted to stick BlackBerry with could be very expensive for Chen. BlackBerry has to play by the rules they agreed too.

    And unfortunately BlackBerry is so desperate to have carriers on board with their products, they aren't going to rock the boat and "ask" for changes like Apple did. Ten years ago BlackBerry could have asked for anything and gotten it, they WERE the smartphone. But today AT&T got BlackBerry to redesign the Passport if they were going to carry it. And which carriers in the US have admitted they will even carry the LEAP?
    Contracts that blackberry decided to agree on and still continue to agree on. I'm pretty sure under Chen 's tenure, that at least one of those contacts showed up on his desk for approval regardless what carrier it was. Yes blackberry is small and only getting smaller but blackberry knows Verizon has tons of commercial accounts using BlackBerry still. Why not force the issue of giving Verizon x amount of months for approval like I mentioned on my last post.

    Posted via CB10
    05-28-15 12:51 PM
  15. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    According to Verizon, it's actually Blackberry who is in charge of sending out its own updates. It's true that Verizon acts as a set of secondary eyes to make sure things will go smoothly, but it's Blackberry who pulls the trigger

    Posted via CB10
    They pulled the trigger... why do you think every carrier on the planet pushed the update except the US...

    Posted via CB10
    Coachbulldog likes this.
    05-28-15 01:02 PM
  16. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    I really didn't start this thread to be another in a series of "Blame Chen" fests that keep taking over threads here.

    What I thought was interesting was that Chen is actually aware of problems with OS updates not being pushed by the carriers, and that he wants to actually speak to the US consumers about changing the system somehow. I guess he is trying something... but carry on blaming him about the past if that helps you out.
    Acknowledging the problem is the first step to fixing it.

    Posted via CB10
    05-28-15 01:03 PM
  17. Centerman66's Avatar
    One sided?! BlackBerry needs the carriers 10x more than the carriers need BlackBerry. Good luck with that negotiation. Samsung couldn't do it either and its situation is almost reversed.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.680
    Maybe 1000x
    05-28-15 02:20 PM
  18. ljfong's Avatar
    Contracts that blackberry decided to agree on and still continue to agree on. I'm pretty sure under Chen 's tenure, that at least one of those contacts showed up on his desk for approval regardless what carrier it was. Yes blackberry is small and only getting smaller but blackberry knows Verizon has tons of commercial accounts using BlackBerry still. Why not force the issue of giving Verizon x amount of months for approval like I mentioned on my last post.

    Posted via CB10
    BlackBerry is in no position to strongarm anyone in the mobile industry in its current state. Worst comes to worst, 10.3.1 causes tons of problems on carrier network after being force pushed directly, the carriers can sue BlackBerry for breach of contract or completely re-evaluate their existing business relationships with BlackBerry. If that happens, BlackBerry the company will be gone. Very quickly. Sucks to be in the position of BlackBerry right now, but that is the way it is.
    05-28-15 02:27 PM
  19. DaedalusIcarusHelios's Avatar
    I read that Microsoft is going to control updates on Windows 10 Mobile rather than the carriers. I don't know how they are getting away with it, or if it's more of an empty declaration on their part (sort of like how BB was talking about how they had the separate radio updates that carriers could control and they'd control everything else for BB10 that never materialized).

    I hope that 10.3.2 is what gets pushed, since it has the better calendar (some options to make it more like in 10.2.1).
    05-28-15 03:20 PM
  20. BCITMike's Avatar
    I reading that book Losing the Signal. Back in the day, BlackBerry had the right to do whatever it wanted.

    BlackBerry pushed maps and Brower apps to BlackBerries without asking the carriers. Carriers were furious but they couldn't do anything because BlackBerry had the right to add or remove features.

    Posted via CB10
    The quote from yesterday was that BlackBerry couldn't put a full browser on the phones because of the carriers.

    Got any quotes they could "do whatever"?

    Posted via CB10
    05-28-15 03:26 PM
  21. Matty's Avatar
    I've always found it funny that the USA, where BlackBerry is from, is always the last to receive updates. Surely BlackBerry and the carriers can come to some sort of agreement.

    I feel it's wrong to not let people have the latest updates. It's not only providing new features but also providing enhancements to security. Let's hope soon all is fixed

    Posted via BlackBerry Q5 on 10.3.1.2576
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    05-28-15 03:44 PM
  22. OTCHRussell's Avatar
    I've always found it funny that the USA, where BlackBerry is from, is always the last to receive updates. Surely BlackBerry and the carriers can come to some sort of agreement.

    I feel it's wrong to not let people have the latest updates. It's not only providing new features but also providing enhancements to security. Let's hope soon all is fixed

    Posted via BlackBerry Q5 on 10.3.1.2576
    BlackBerry is from Canada, not USA.

    9000 > Q10 > Z10 >Z30>
    05-28-15 03:50 PM
  23. LP_Rigg's Avatar
    Blackberry is actually a Canadian company. But, I agree with your basic premise.
    05-28-15 03:51 PM
  24. conite's Avatar
    I've always found it funny that the USA, where BlackBerry is from, is always the last to receive updates. Surely BlackBerry and the carriers can come to some sort of agreement.

    I feel it's wrong to not let people have the latest updates. It's not only providing new features but also providing enhancements to security. Let's hope soon all is fixed

    Posted via BlackBerry Q5 on 10.3.1.2576
    BTW, BlackBerry is Canadian, and Canadian carriers are usually the first to provide updates.

    American carriers seem more interested in selling new hardware than supporting existing devices.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.680
    05-28-15 03:51 PM
  25. Blacklatino's Avatar
    Pee in cornflakes??
    They wouldn't stay crunchy for long. but I bet it would make for a great winter breakfast.
    A bit salty for my taste though!!

    http://www.picturesanimations.com/3/3d_smileys/0251.gif
    LMAO. You would have better luck with Frosted Flakes. Salty....yet sweet at the same time.
    Lostboy5151 and MarsupilamiX like this.
    05-28-15 05:01 PM
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