1. antho_2000's Avatar
    I have looked into jaguar financial. They are a penny stock company who makes money by buying off companies in little pieces when they are up against the wall and selling it off to the highest bidder. This company is nothing close to a financial institution and it's also why it's the only ''financial'' company trash talking RIM. It is trying to help the bad press to make the stocks go even lower at it's own benefit. I hope everyone who reads this message either sends an e-mail of disapproval to jaguar financial like i have done and tells them that if RIM closes down, THOUSANDS of canadians will loose their jobs.. In an economy like ours, it will not be easy for these high paid engineers or techies to find something near home, near their families.

    If you are still on crack berry but currently use another phone, please consider a BBX phone when they come out next year and hold out on any renewal idea you've had. This is more important.

    THank you for your time, I wish you all a merry christmas and a happy new year
    Anthony G.
    Montreal, QC
    miktro likes this.
    12-17-11 08:44 AM
  2. Fmar's Avatar
    I'd rather have voices raised at RIM, they are their own worst enemy. If RIM got their game together, got their shares back to $40 or above... I doubt there would be much JF could do about it.

    I have a BB, I wont ever buy another one.
    12-17-11 09:11 AM
  3. CrackedBarry's Avatar
    Ehm, in case you haven't noticed, its not just Jaguar that's criticising RIM... Pretty much EVERY financial institution is "trash talking" them right now, lowering estimates, etc.

    And so what if thousands of jobs are lost... Are you suggesting people should knowingly buy an inferior product, just to keep them in business? In that case, how about outright subsidizing them? Cause as we all know, it always works out great when the government artificially keeps a company alive, that isn't capable of competing on an equal level.

    Anyways, your worries are somewhat misplaced... RIM probably can't survive as an independent company and platform, but theyre more likely to be acquired by another manufacturer than an outright bankcrupcy.
    12-17-11 09:22 AM
  4. JAGWIRE's Avatar
    AS much as i dont like to agree with a troll i kinda have to on this one.

    RIM is their own worst enemy right now and need to pull their sh!t together if they even wanna make it to BB10 launch. Ive owned a few BBs and have loved them all and will keep buying BBs as long as they are out there to buy be it RIM is there or not.
    12-17-11 09:33 AM
  5. stubbornswiss's Avatar
    To the op......

    With all due respect sir, you gotta wake up and take a look around you. Turn on the radio, the tv, buy a paper, or visit some business sites on the internet. Maybe visit something like bloomberg.com, and see what RIMM stock is doing.

    RIM is in serious trouble right now, and it hasn't been brought on by any financial institution!

    No, it's their very own fault!
    12-17-11 09:53 AM
  6. Just Me's Avatar
    To the op......

    With all due respect sir, you gotta wake up and take a look around you. Turn on the radio, the tv, buy a paper, or visit some business sites on the internet. Maybe visit something like bloomberg.com, and see what RIMM stock is doing.

    RIM is in serious trouble right now, and it hasn't been brought on by any financial institution!

    No, it's their very own fault!
    My understanding of RIM's current finances is this.

    stock price x number of share < assets - liabilities

    To me, it looks like the stock value is in fact being manipulated by the financial institutions.
    12-17-11 10:35 AM
  7. palmless's Avatar
    My understanding of RIM's current finances is this.

    stock price x number of share < assets - liabilities

    To me, it looks like the stock value is in fact being manipulated by the financial institutions.
    Well... No. As a general note, not everything you don't understand is bad. This is something you don't understand (per your post), see if this helps.

    Post a Jaguar XKE for sale and you may find it has a market value of $100,000. That's the equivalent to the value of the asset, and we assume it has no liabilities. I would buy one of 1,000 shares for $100, as it is "worth" it.

    Now picture that same car, driving on a dirt track, driven by two drunken gorillas. A team of professional drivers are circling in armored cars.

    You would pay MUCH less than $100 for a 1,000 share of that car. You would value it as much less than it's asset value because you can see what is going to happen.

    The market sees that management will continue to destroy the value of RIM, so the stock price reflects the expected future values.

    If you think the two drunken gorillas can beat the professionals in their armored cars with their 100 lap leads, you have a BUYING OPPORTUNITY. You are betting that you are smarter than the collective market. Keep in mind that the collective market does not "love" BB or "hate" BB, they are too intelligent for that. They simply evaluate the chances at this stage of the race with this drivers and this competition.

    You are free to bet that you are a better judge, and you will be rewarded if you are right.
    Last edited by Palmless; 12-17-11 at 01:37 PM.
    anon1727506 likes this.
    12-17-11 10:43 AM
  8. stubbornswiss's Avatar
    My understanding of RIM's current finances is this.

    stock price x number of share < assets - liabilities

    To me, it looks like the stock value is in fact being manipulated by the financial institutions.
    I guess thats 'Just You'
    12-17-11 10:44 AM
  9. West Coast Flavor's Avatar
    You should work for RIM bro. I think you throw great pitty parties
    12-17-11 01:03 PM
  10. JPMorgan_'s Avatar
    Delays, poor execution from management, and lack of results have nothing to do with Jaguar Financial, RIM's shrinking market share in America (I will include Mexico) has nothing to do with that insignificant company named Jaguar Financial.
    It's about nos delivering products on time, and not keeping up with what competitors are delivering to customers at this moment.
    12-17-11 01:47 PM
  11. JAGWIRE's Avatar
    RIM hasnt kept a promise in years and that is why stock is going down...
    12-17-11 04:12 PM
  12. Shlooky's Avatar
    Not even sure the new BB10 phones will save RIM at this point. people will move on and iOS and Android will grow by a leaps and bounds.

    RIM's Q4 and 2013 Q1 and 2 will also be poor and the stock will plummet to new lows.

    RIM needs a fresh new management structure starting from the two clowns Jim and Mike. The new CEO needs to start pumping new BB10 phones out early and most importantly a solid eco system.

    You can have the best phone, the best OS, but if there are no apps, it's useless.
    Last edited by Shlooky; 12-17-11 at 05:56 PM.
    12-17-11 05:53 PM
  13. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Not even sure the new BB10 phones will save RIM at this point. people will move on and iOS and Android will grow by a leaps and bounds.

    RIM's Q4 and 2013 Q1 and 2 will also be poor and the stock will plummet to new lows.

    RIM needs a fresh new management structure starting from the two clowns Jim and Mike. The new CEO needs to start pumping new BB10 phones out early and most importantly a solid eco system.

    You can have the best phone, the best OS, but if there are no apps, it's useless.

    Yes because a new CEO will magically create an Ecosystem and Increase production times and efficiencies to get BBX out sooner. and developer support.

    a NEW CEO could make 2013 amazing, but a new CEO can't come in and turn RIM around in 2012, the current CEO's are already putting inplace a lot of the components,
    12-17-11 06:07 PM
  14. Shlooky's Avatar
    CEO's don't actually sit down and physically create anything...they lead, they make decisions. Once the engineers have a clear direction and timelines they will make it happen or it's their jobs.
    right now the co-CEo's are not stepping up. Again who know's what's happening internally, but in the eyes of everyone, they are confused at best, making bad decisions.
    Elop turned Nokia around, he came in, fired a whole bunch of inefficient people, set the direction and now they are recovering. RIM should learn from Nokia.
    12-17-11 06:26 PM
  15. antho_2000's Avatar
    Ehm, in case you haven't noticed, its not just Jaguar that's criticising RIM... Pretty much EVERY financial institution is "trash talking" them right now, lowering estimates, etc.

    And so what if thousands of jobs are lost... Are you suggesting people should knowingly buy an inferior product, just to keep them in business? In that case, how about outright subsidizing them? Cause as we all know, it always works out great when the government artificially keeps a company alive, that isn't capable of competing on an equal level.

    Anyways, your worries are somewhat misplaced... RIM probably can't survive as an independent company and platform, but theyre more likely to be acquired by another manufacturer than an outright bankcrupcy.
    OK, i'll take it one paragraph at a time.

    The only financial institution right now giving RIM advice on selling off the company in pieces because it would benefit them (jaguar, not RIM), is Jaguar. I don't see RBC financial writing articles of ten pages about how RIM should sell their buildings at a loss so that RBC could buy it cheap and sell it later at a bigger price. get serious.

    People are unknowingly and knowingly buying inferior products every day. Look at the iPhone 4S. I have 4 friends who just bought one of those clunky battery/case add-ons because the battery life was less than a day at a regular use. So now they have a phone that looks like it belongs in the 90s just because it's an iPhone and wow look at me I have an iPhone (someone insert the new samsung commercials here).

    RIM survived to many years on the market at much lower stock values, from the day it went public to 2003. The only thing they need right now is to get wtv recipe they had going for success back then and encourage innovation.
    12-19-11 08:31 AM
  16. Rickroller's Avatar
    If you are still on crack berry but currently use another phone, please consider a BBX phone when they come out next year and hold out on any renewal idea you've had. This is more important.

    If RIM is still around by the time a BBTen phone is ready, I may consider it. But I can (with most confidence) say this will not happen "next year", and I won't hold an upgrade for it, since I can update yearly anyways

    And calling a company "evil" simply because they don't like the way RIM is running things and is voicing that in the press is misguided. RIM isn't the "good guy" here while everyone else are the "bad guys". RIM has been lying, deceiving, and misleading not only it's consumers, but it's shareholders for years now. Hardly the kind of company i'd like to champion for.

    Besides..it's not like they'd (Jaguar) have the finances themselves to aquire RIM and break them into little pieces to sell, if they are a penny stock company.
    12-19-11 09:16 AM
  17. undone's Avatar
    Jaguar was bad mouthing RIM well before any of the most current news was going on.

    Jaguar I agree HAS driven down RIM with bad press...BUT....

    RIM has been running around like a drunk person with a loaded shotgun wondering what to do.....BUT....

    They woke to the hangover and dead bodies and are moving forward. No one likes is, wants things to turn on a dime and thinks RIM is doomed.

    Opinion part: I think RIM's plans are reasonable (not perfect). I think Jaguar needs to get bent. Damn chop shop looking to make money. If RIM fails, then I lose as an investor. RIM needs to shut the **** up and get stuff done, state a new release a week prior to launch date, market the crap out of product lines and sell sell sell.
    12-19-11 09:20 AM
  18. Knightcrawler's Avatar
    markets are largely based on speculation, ergo bad press = lower share prices. and jaguar benifits from the lowered share price, so it is in thier best interest to stir **** up. they are vultures and have a history of doing similar things (including some lawsuits if im not mistaken).

    that being said however, rim is to blame for giving them **** to stir up. rim one and only fault has been not reacting fast enough to a rapidly changing consumer market. however now that they have realised what they need to do, the should be GIVEN ENOUGH TIME TO DO IT.

    you cant expect a fully functioning, brand spanking new software that not only matches the competition but delivers something new, to just magically show up in a year (especially since rim has to worry about backwards compatibility with bes/bis). how long do you think apple worked on ios before their 2007 release? i net you it was more then a year.

    i agree that rim has been stupid with thier lack of commitment to launch dates, and the ceo's are fully to blame for this, but once bb10 is up and running you will see their stock price stabalize and eventually climb. the market can speculate all it wants but rim will not go banckrupt in the next year or two no matter how ****ed up thier management is, and once bb10 is in full swing the markets will reflect that upward momentum, for the marekts are a fickle mistress.

    ps: pardon the multitude of spelling errors.....this pb has no ******* auto correct
    12-19-11 11:03 AM
  19. anon1727506's Avatar
    OK, i'll take it one paragraph at a time.

    The only financial institution right now giving RIM advice on selling off the company in pieces because it would benefit them (jaguar, not RIM), is Jaguar. I don't see RBC financial writing articles of ten pages about how RIM should sell their buildings at a loss so that RBC could buy it cheap and sell it later at a bigger price. get serious.
    A number of financial institutions are saying that RIM is worth more for it's parts (patents) than for it's phone business....

    People are unknowingly and knowingly buying inferior products every day. Look at the iPhone 4S. I have 4 friends who just bought one of those clunky battery/case add-ons because the battery life was less than a day at a regular use. So now they have a phone that looks like it belongs in the 90s just because it's an iPhone and wow look at me I have an iPhone (someone insert the new samsung commercials here).
    Battery life is really relative to how much a device is used, the number and type of apps that are running, and it's screen size...

    My STORM with moderate use never went more than a day without having to be charged. I bet most of the new BB Torches are the same....


    RIM survived to many years on the market at much lower stock values, from the day it went public to 2003. The only thing they need right now is to get wtv recipe they had going for success back then and encourage innovation.
    But investors taught they had a great product and business model.... But time has changed, and now the products and where the company is heading are much in doubt.
    12-19-11 12:03 PM
  20. Mikey_T's Avatar
    Last time I checked Jaguar was not a charity; they have no obligations to the employees at RIM or the sensibilities of Blackberry users. They're in the game to make money for their investors, just like RIM is.

    Evil? That's a bit of a stretch.
    12-19-11 01:01 PM
  21. Economist101's Avatar
    Why is it that so many things have to be "evil" these days? Whatever happened to plain old "wrong"?
    12-19-11 04:51 PM
  22. loneweasel's Avatar
    Last time I checked Jaguar was not a charity; they have no obligations to the employees at RIM or the sensibilities of Blackberry users. They're in the game to make money for their investors, just like RIM is.

    Evil? That's a bit of a stretch.
    If anyone is evil for threatening the livelihood of RIM employees and investors, it's the co-CEOs and the co-chairmen. (goodness, how did that blatant conflict of interest ever get past Canadian law?)
    12-19-11 05:32 PM
  23. sinsin07's Avatar
    People are unknowingly and knowingly buying inferior products every day. Look at the iPhone 4S.
    According to some news blogs, this is exactly how RIM thought also.

    The only thing they need right now is to get wtv recipe they had going for success back then and encourage innovation.
    No, they need a new recipe. There is no going back. Going back is what got them into this predicament. Back then" was a different landscape.
    Last edited by sinsin07; 12-19-11 at 06:35 PM.
    12-19-11 06:31 PM
  24. papped's Avatar
    1) I didn't trust them when they said the phones would be out earlier in 2012. Then they announced late 2012.

    2) I don't even really trust the late 2012 deadline... If they do release it, I have a feeling it will be highly rushed and unfinished. Otherwise it will be 2013... By that time, is the new OS even going to be good enough to go against the current competition at that time?

    3) EVEN IF they meet the deadline and EVEN IF the execution is perfect (yeah right on both of those happening), there will be no marketing, so.......

    They stuck at actually meeting deadlines, which is basically offing themselves one missed release at a time...
    12-19-11 06:44 PM
  25. CrackedBarry's Avatar
    OK, i'll take it one paragraph at a time.

    The only financial institution right now giving RIM advice on selling off the company in pieces because it would benefit them (jaguar, not RIM), is Jaguar. I don't see RBC financial writing articles of ten
    You don't see it cause you don't know much about the cell industry, nor much about the financial industry I suspect, and therefore don't read up on it.
    Jaguar isn't the only company discussing breaking up RIM, it's a pretty natural consequence of their current position. Just look here: http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...t-scenario.htm

    "Others, such as CIBC and Paradigm Capital, have slashed but only to a point above RIM's current valuation. Many argue the Canadian company would make a viable strategic takeout target or a buyer could break it up and sell off in parts."

    People are unknowingly and knowingly buying inferior products every day.
    Sadly, that's true. But RIMs sales have dropped off significantly, so at least there are less people that end up with a under spec'ed Blackberry with a dead end OS like BBOS7. Or a tablet that'll probably also be discontinued in the near future....

    Look at the iPhone 4S. I have 4 friends who just bought one of those clunky battery/case add-ons because the battery life was less than a day at a regular use.
    Just like the BB7 phones you mean? Well, your friends can take comfort in the fact that they'd probably would get even worse battery life with an Android phone or BBOS7, judging by the reports on this very forum. I don't like iPhones myself, but I have to admit that their battery life is class leading for modern, full spec'ed cellphones...

    RIM survived to many years on the market at much lower stock values, from the day it went public to 2003. The only thing they need right now is to get wtv recipe they had going for success back then and encourage innovation.
    That was then, and this is now... And realistically speaking, it's probably too late to turn RIM around... They have a 10% market share in the US these days, and by the time BB10 gets out, it'll probably be half of that. With market share in the single digits, app developers isn't interested in the platform, and theres a real risk that carriers will drop BBs from their lineup. Just isnt worth it for them.
    12-20-11 08:45 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD